Date   

Re: Wilson reefer (bogus?)

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Thanks to all who answered. Your answers were about what I expected but, since I really didn't know, I thought I would ask. My layout would likely only see the occasional Wilson reefer. Swift and Armour will be more frequent visitors.

Just received a new, unused Jack Sprat label which will be scanned for a sign or two on Western Grocers in Marshalltown.

Again, thanks to all.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, S hed <shed999@...> wrote:


I am modeling a Wilson meat plant in the 1920s and I've collected photos of various Wilson meat reefers. I'm pretty confident that I know the different paint schemes that Wilson reefers wore from 1916 to the 1960s. And I have never seen a paint scheme like that. I think it was either made up or they saw a one-of-a-kind car and put it on this model. Either way, it wouldn't make sense to have this car on a layout unless you collect these kind of cars.



- Steve Hedlund, Silver Lake, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: bierglaeser@...
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:45:34 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Wilson reefer (bogus?)





Please see eBay item #290293823411 HO Wilson Car Lines WCLX 8350 Box Car Item #509 j.

Is the paint scheme bogus or is there some basis in reality?

Gene Green
New Mexico





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Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
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Re: Wilson reefer (bogus?)

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Yes Sir, Clark, No more eBay. But my workbench and tools are still in El Paso. But you have a really good idea.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:



Gene,
Quit wasting your time looking at toy trains on ebay and start building some of the prototype models you have : )))

Clark


Re: NEWSPRINT

Greg Martin
 

Paul,

Paper rolls of any kind require a "paper quality floor" or dock. You can
only imagine what would happen to a roll paper if the surface that you were
unloading on were to create even small holes in the paper edge or face. So I
am sure the dock you are referring to was a better taken care of then most
and likely swept clean before any carload was unloaded checking for any
FOD material.

Greg Martin

In a message dated 12/30/2009 11:16:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
buygone@earthlink.net writes:




Tim:

Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover. Rolls were normally
loaded eye to the sky and the trucker in this case Bundren would bring a
fork lift with a roll clamp. Unload the cars, transfer to their trucks, and
deliver to the Times.

Paul

_____

From: _STMFC@yahoogroups.STM_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com)
[mailto:_STMFC@yahoogroups.STM_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com) ] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:48 PM
To: _STMFC@yahoogroups.STM_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com)
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT

Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:

Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion
via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NEWSPRINT

Schuyler Larrabee
 

There was a paper mill at Ticonderoga which I remember from when I was a kid, the hydrogen sulphide
(sulfide?) smell was overwhelming. I believe they made newsprint, among other papers.

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 1:36 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT




Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks. I don't know
about your New England statement however -- newsprint comes from
many sources, especially Canada. I don't know of any newsprint mills
in New England, although maybe there were some in the 1950's.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 11:37 AM Wednesday, you wrote:
SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have been in NewEngland and
if so,what
would have been the route(s)to get the newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in
cities would the cars
been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman







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Re: Modifying Con-Cor USRA Box Car

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory

Wouldn't make much difference if they did: the Tichy ends lack any bolt or rivrt detail on the
part that models the flange
that wraps around the corner onto the car side, and has a considerable amount of drat in this
area. So, you'd have to file
them narrower and then add a strip with embossed rivets.

Dennis

"a considerable amount of drat in this area"


Yeah, I have kits like that.

SGL





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Re: NEWSPRINT

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Tim:



Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 10:36 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT






Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks. I don't know
about your New England statement however -- newsprint comes from
many sources, especially Canada. I don't know of any newsprint mills
in New England, although maybe there were some in the 1950's.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 11:37 AM Wednesday, you wrote:
SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have
been in NewEngland and if so,what would have been the route(s)to get the
newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in cities would the
cars been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman


Re: NEWSPRINT

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,
 
          If it helps with the understanding of the paper shipping; the Boston Globe has it's own siding into the plant. Newsprint arrived almost daily by rail. Not so sure about other newspapers in the area.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:04 PM


 




Thanks Andy, on further digging I found a newsprint mill in Jay, Maine,
that closed this year after 110 years in business. Newsprint consumption
is down 30% in 2009...

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 01:57 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
"Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks."

Not so fast, Tim. For many years the "Milwaukee Journal" received newsprint in boxcars at a concrete unloading dock at the south end of the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line. This was known as the "Journal Paper Dock." The big, heavy rolls of paper were unloaded there and reloaded into trucks for the trip to the printing plant in the basement of the Journal Building, which was only a few blocks away but not on any rail line. This transloading was still a regular operation when I first moved to Milwaukee in 1979.

Either when the Beer Line shut down or some time before, the Journal Co. began using the Hansen Storage warehouse on the west side of Milwaukee, along the Chicago & North Western's old freight line. Newsprint still came by rail to Hansen's warehouse, and was trucked downtown as needed. By the way, this is the same Hansen Storage warehouse Gordy Odegard modeled for our club layout in a March 1992 "Model Railroader" article.

It's been a while since I heard anything about how the Journal Co. gets its paper, but the newspaper business being as it is, I'm sure it doesn't buy nearly as much as it once did.

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag. com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: express reefers loading/unloading

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Guyz,
 
           If the shipper was willing to pay the extra fee for express reefers, they most likely went by pass schedule. The PRR fans have numerous photos of express reefers on the head end of many of the west-east pass trains. Chicago must have been a mad house when the different season arrived.
 
I have not found any express reefers in perishable reefer consists as yet; and was surprised by not finding any. doubt they went into an LCL express train; however, never say never when it comes to a class 1 RR.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 12/30/09, proto48er <atkott@swbell.net> wrote:


From: proto48er <atkott@swbell.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: express reefers loading/unloading
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 30, 2009, 3:24 PM


 



Tim -

It is as cold here for most of the last few weeks as it was back in Naperville last month! Very unseasonably cold weather for us!

I do not think the express reefers were removed from the block of freight reefers as long as they were on the MP. I was told they went up the StLB&M line to Houston, and think they went up the I-GN line to Palestine, then to the T&P at Longview, then to the MP at Texarkana.

The express reefers only contained grapefruit in baskets - the freight reefers had other winter produce in them. Perhaps the express reefers were segregated out of the fruit block in St Louis before delivery to whatever carrier got them next (NYC or PRR). They were all definately sent to New York City. Maybe the next carrier handled them in passenger trains?? Maybe that was why the grapefruit was always loaded in express reefers and not freight reefers?? Perhaps the place in NYC where they were unloaded required passenger - equipped cars?? The grapefruit were individually wrapped in cellophane and placed 8-10 in a wicker gift basket - they were ready for sale without further processing.

Happy New Year!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...> wrote:


Thanks, this is all very interesting. So where were the StLB&M express
reefers out of the Rio Grande Valley handed over to passenger trains? Or
did passenger trains stop and pick them up directly, like at Fullerton CA?

I remember open produce sheds in Texas... was born in San Antonio and have
been back many times since. There were some large galvanized steel sheds in
town too.

Tim O'Connor







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: express reefers loading/unloading

proto48er
 

Tim -

It is as cold here for most of the last few weeks as it was back in Naperville last month! Very unseasonably cold weather for us!

I do not think the express reefers were removed from the block of freight reefers as long as they were on the MP. I was told they went up the StLB&M line to Houston, and think they went up the I-GN line to Palestine, then to the T&P at Longview, then to the MP at Texarkana.

The express reefers only contained grapefruit in baskets - the freight reefers had other winter produce in them. Perhaps the express reefers were segregated out of the fruit block in St Louis before delivery to whatever carrier got them next (NYC or PRR). They were all definately sent to New York City. Maybe the next carrier handled them in passenger trains?? Maybe that was why the grapefruit was always loaded in express reefers and not freight reefers?? Perhaps the place in NYC where they were unloaded required passenger - equipped cars?? The grapefruit were individually wrapped in cellophane and placed 8-10 in a wicker gift basket - they were ready for sale without further processing.

Happy New Year!

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Thanks, this is all very interesting. So where were the StLB&M express
reefers out of the Rio Grande Valley handed over to passenger trains? Or
did passenger trains stop and pick them up directly, like at Fullerton CA?

I remember open produce sheds in Texas... was born in San Antonio and have
been back many times since. There were some large galvanized steel sheds in
town too.

Tim O'Connor


Re: NEWSPRINT

Tim O'Connor
 

Thanks Andy, on further digging I found a newsprint mill in Jay, Maine,
that closed this year after 110 years in business. Newsprint consumption
is down 30% in 2009...

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 01:57 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
"Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks."

Not so fast, Tim. For many years the "Milwaukee Journal" received newsprint in boxcars at a concrete unloading dock at the south end of the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line. This was known as the "Journal Paper Dock." The big, heavy rolls of paper were unloaded there and reloaded into trucks for the trip to the printing plant in the basement of the Journal Building, which was only a few blocks away but not on any rail line. This transloading was still a regular operation when I first moved to Milwaukee in 1979.

Either when the Beer Line shut down or some time before, the Journal Co. began using the Hansen Storage warehouse on the west side of Milwaukee, along the Chicago & North Western's old freight line. Newsprint still came by rail to Hansen's warehouse, and was trucked downtown as needed. By the way, this is the same Hansen Storage warehouse Gordy Odegard modeled for our club layout in a March 1992 "Model Railroader" article.

It's been a while since I heard anything about how the Journal Co. gets its paper, but the newspaper business being as it is, I'm sure it doesn't buy nearly as much as it once did.

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Modifying Con-Cor USRA Box Car

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Beings I picked up a bunch of the Ertl cars cheap and have built just Westerfield USRA DS cars. I have never paid any attention to the Accurail car.

The toughest part of building any kit for a car from this time period is the ladder stiles on the ends of the car. Some resin kits offer resin stiles that break when drilled. Modern resin kits include etched brass you're supposed to be able to bend. BS! I've done it, sort of...
I would think that if the Accurail car has the grabs modeled on it would be easy to scrape off the grabs leaving the rivet detail and replace them with wire ones using the molded stiles.

I just made two DS cars with Details West 4/4 ends. I used a 1x4" for the inside stile and a 2x4 for the outside (closest to the side of the car). They were the narrowest styrene I had I could drill without breaking.

Of course, I build models to runon my layout. Not for contest.

Clark Propst


Re: NEWSPRINT

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

"Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks."

Not so fast, Tim. For many years the "Milwaukee Journal" received newsprint in boxcars at a concrete unloading dock at the south end of the Milwaukee Road's Beer Line. This was known as the "Journal Paper Dock." The big, heavy rolls of paper were unloaded there and reloaded into trucks for the trip to the printing plant in the basement of the Journal Building, which was only a few blocks away but not on any rail line. This transloading was still a regular operation when I first moved to Milwaukee in 1979.

Either when the Beer Line shut down or some time before, the Journal Co. began using the Hansen Storage warehouse on the west side of Milwaukee, along the Chicago & North Western's old freight line. Newsprint still came by rail to Hansen's warehouse, and was trucked downtown as needed. By the way, this is the same Hansen Storage warehouse Gordy Odegard modeled for our club layout in a March 1992 "Model Railroader" article.

It's been a while since I heard anything about how the Journal Co. gets its paper, but the newspaper business being as it is, I'm sure it doesn't buy nearly as much as it once did.

Happy New Year,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: NEWSPRINT

Tim O'Connor
 

Newsprint is delivered directly to printing plants. The rolls are
way too big and heavy for transloading at team tracks. I don't know
about your New England statement however -- newsprint comes from
many sources, especially Canada. I don't know of any newsprint mills
in New England, although maybe there were some in the 1950's.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/30/2009 11:37 AM Wednesday, you wrote:
SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have been in NewEngland and if so,what would have been the route(s)to get the newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in cities would the cars been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman


Re: Modifying Con-Cor USRA Box Car

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis, nowadays we uses Archer rivets... no more embossing. :-) But I
see what you mean.

Tim O'Connor

Wouldn't make much difference if they did: the Tichy ends lack any bolt or rivrt detail on the part that models the flange that wraps around the corner onto the car side, and has a considerable amount of drat in this area. So, you'd have to file them narrower and then add a strip with embossed rivets.
Dennis


Re: Modifying Con-Cor USRA Box Car

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Wouldn't make much difference if they did: the Tichy ends lack any bolt or rivrt detail on the part that models the flange that wraps around the corner onto the car side, and has a considerable amount of drat in this area. So, you'd have to file them narrower and then add a strip with embossed rivets.
Archer rivets, my man, Archer rivets.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Modifying Con-Cor USRA Box Car

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:

I know nothing about this old kit. Why not just buy and build the Westerfield model? If they make one for your road.

My recollection of that kit is that it had scribed, silk screened wood sides. Second rate even for that time.

I think any other kits would end up as much better looking USRA DS cars - Westerfield, Accurail, Ertl, F&C .........

Some of those old "craftsman" cars were real junk.


Re: Wilson reefer (bogus?)

S hed <shed999@...>
 

I am modeling a Wilson meat plant in the 1920s and I've collected photos of various Wilson meat reefers. I'm pretty confident that I know the different paint schemes that Wilson reefers wore from 1916 to the 1960s. And I have never seen a paint scheme like that. I think it was either made up or they saw a one-of-a-kind car and put it on this model. Either way, it wouldn't make sense to have this car on a layout unless you collect these kind of cars.



- Steve Hedlund, Silver Lake, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: bierglaeser@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 2009 01:45:34 +0000
Subject: [STMFC] Wilson reefer (bogus?)





Please see eBay item #290293823411 HO Wilson Car Lines WCLX 8350 Box Car Item #509 j.

Is the paint scheme bogus or is there some basis in reality?

Gene Green
New Mexico





_________________________________________________________________
Hotmail: Trusted email with powerful SPAM protection.
http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/177141665/direct/01/


NEWSPRINT

brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
 

SHIPMENT OF NEWSPRINT...In the 1950's would most of the paper mills have been in NewEngland and if so,what would have been the route(s)to get the newsprint to cities like NY and Philia(and Boston).And in cities would the cars been unloaded at the newspaper or off sight(team tracks)..
Thanks
Joel Norman


Re: Modifying Con-Cor USRA Box Car

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Has anyone applied these ends to the Accurail USRA DS box car?
I'm curious if it matches the dimensions of that kit... Might be
useful as an upgrade.

Tim O'Connor
Wouldn't make much difference if they did: the Tichy ends lack any bolt or rivrt detail on the part that models the flange that wraps around the corner onto the car side, and has a considerable amount of drat in this area. So, you'd have to file them narrower and then add a strip with embossed rivets.

Dennis


Re: Wilson reefer (bogus?)

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Gene,
Quit wasting your time looking at toy trains on ebay and start building some of the prototype models you have : )))

Clark

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