Date   

Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Brad Andonian
 

They seem like racks of ties that fit into retorts for creosoting..


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Hi Folks

A clue to the nature of the loads lies in the wood sheathing; whatever it is requires substantial protection from mechanical damage.  Spools of wire makes good sense, especially if it is something like high-tension electrical cable which does not have insulation.  High quality steel cable such as used with cranes and elevators is another possibility.  A long shot would be specially finished metal liners for a very large diesel engine as found in ships, or maybe the sleeves used in large bearings.  Having worked as a mechanical engineer designing ships, I have seen cylinder liners larger than what would fit in those wood drums, and overseen the manufacture of bearings nearly that big for tugboats' towing winches.  However, I would have thought that steel cable or cylinder liners would require protection from water so they would be in a boxcar or at least covered with tarpaulins, so my money is on electrical cable because copper won't corrode much during the journey.

Whatever is inside, those drums make a great load for a flatcar!

Regards
Paul Woods

Whangarei, NZ.
NYCSHS #7172


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob,

One possibility is coils of wire on large spools turned sideways. I've seen, or seen photos, of coils like this enclosed in boards that were banded around the wooden edges of the spools with metal straps. If any of you have Gregg's TRAINSHED CYCLOPEDIA No. 36 (or the 1919 CAR BUILDER'S DICTIONARY), look on page 1112, figure 93. This diagram is for large boiler sections, but the loading principle is similar and is the closest I can find.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Thu, Feb 20, 2020 at 2:27 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions

Jim Lancaster
 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 08:09 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 05:32 PM, naptownprr wrote:

So how were the cars lettered before 1953?

http://www.gregariousrailfan.com/images/REA_rail_car.jpg

Dennis
After the Second World War the Railway Express Agency rebuilt a number of troop sleepers into express refrigerator cars. The late Lou Cross took this photo in Los Angeles in the early 1950s. I originally posted the image on my web page http://coastdaylight.com/reareefer.html almost twenty years ago.

Jim Lancaster


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Sudan. PA

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mike, et al;

I am not familiar enough with how P&WV trains were blocked, or what many of them were composed of, but P&WV had some very diverse make-ups, due to the customers involved. USS Donora had a diverse portfolio of products, too. You could see gons of sheet, wire "mattress", or "wire", plus tank cars of acid (103-B) and by-product (103's). There were also western, mid-western and southern box cars in consists, on their way home with bagged ammonium sulfate for soil amendment.

But those Hersheys box cars are a mystery to me. It is beyond me why they would be down there on their way to or from Donora.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of m repka via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 2:52 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Sudan. PA

Sort of a remote area! Not far from Monongehela Pa. this is where the Donora Southern and United States Steel RR came off of the P&WV main, and went about 5 miles to the USS mill in Donora and also the slag dump some of which is still there right along the river. The line was up on the hill from the river and it also had two tunnels, one short and the other one maybe a half mile long, and those tunnels are still there also. That Narrow Gauge Rd. is the ROW of the DS and I have driven on it but do not know how it got that name as pretty sure the line was never narrow gauge Mike in St. Petersburg Fla


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Bruce Smith
 

Bob,

Given the inability to enlarge the picture due to pixelation, I doubt that anyone will be able to answer that question. Some options that it might be:
- wood pipe
- wood tank (barrels seem unlikely as they usually had a taper at each end and this load does not appear to have that
- something wrapped in wood for protection, typically of bearing surfaces. I thought a large shaft, but the load would probably be too heavy for the cars it is loaded on.

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Feb 20, 2020, at 1:26 PM, Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



Re: Sudan. PA

m repka
 

Sort of a remote area! Not far from Monongehela Pa. this is where the Donora Southern and United States Steel RR came off of the P&WV main, and went about 5 miles to the USS mill in Donora and also the slag dump some of which is still there right along the river. The line was up on the hill from the river and it also had two tunnels, one short and the other one maybe a half mile long, and those tunnels are still there also. That Narrow Gauge Rd. is the ROW of the DS and I have driven on it but do not know how it got that name as pretty sure the line was never narrow gauge Mike in St. Petersburg Fla


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Todd Sullivan
 

Or depth charges!  LOL

Todd Sullivan


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

vapeurchapelon
 

Hello Bob,
 
to me it looks as these are two rows of whine barrels.
 
Greetings
 
Johannes
modeling the early post-war years up to about 1953
 
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 20. Februar 2020 um 20:26 Uhr
Von: "Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io" <chiefbobbb@...>
An: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Betreff: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Bob Chaparro
 

Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

A photo from the Kansas Historical Society:

https://www.kansasmemory.org/item/51765

Click on the photo to enlarge it, then click on the "Enlarge" button to further enlarge it.

Caption: "Atchison, Topeka, & Santa Fe manifest train (a fast freight train hauling perishables or livestock) with caboose ATSF 1810 brining up the rear of the train. This photograph was taken in the high desert of California near the Mohave River near Victorville, California by R. C. Bradley for AT&SF."

Does anyone know what are the loads on the six flat cars ahead of the three tank cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Andy Laurent
 

It appears that in later years the canister retainer clips were augmented with 2 straps over the top of the canisters.

Andy L
Wisconsin


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Tim;

They do indeed vary by time period. Some are deeply indented; others less so. From what I've been told, they were almost exclusively used for Chlorine.

Not all were built by AC&F. I will dig my stuff up and look into it.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 5:03 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)


I have numerous photos of these cannister flat cars, and they are always loaded with
their cannisters. The precise style of cannisters does vary - perhaps related to the
commodity, or time period? They all have 15 cannisters in my photos.

Was ACF the builder of all these cars?

Tim O'


On 2/19/2020 2:45 PM, James E Kubanick wrote:


When I lived out East during the 1980's there was a small water treatment plant in Lansdale PA that still received these cars. I believe that the cars were returned with empty canisters aboard. I never saw a car without them, but practices may vary - especially during our timeframe.



Jim Kubanick



On Tuesday, February 18, 2020, 8:24:24 PM EST, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io <mike_schleigh=yahoo.com@groups.io> <mailto:mike_schleigh=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:




One of these canister cars was the basis of a scratchbuilding article in Model Railroader way back in the early 1950s. The article was republished in a 'reprint' collection called "Build Your Own Model Cars and Locos." I still have my tattered copy from some some 60 years back. Neat stuff even now! The model was largely brass, called a "chlorine car," carried 14 canisters, and was lettered for Penna. Salt Mfg. (PSMX 1011). This car is listed in my copy of the January 1946 ORER.


Bob's Photo has sold a couple different images of this type of car.


Regards from Grove City, Penna. where winter is creeping back----Mike Schleigh



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions

naptownprr
 

Thanks.  I also didn't know that REA bought some used troop kitchen cars.


Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Dennis Storzek <destorzek@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2020 11:09 PM.
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions
 
On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 05:32 PM, naptownprr wrote:

So how were the cars lettered before 1953?

http://www.gregariousrailfan.com/images/REA_rail_car.jpg

Dennis


Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions

Dennis Storzek
 

On Wed, Feb 19, 2020 at 05:32 PM, naptownprr wrote:

So how were the cars lettered before 1953?

http://www.gregariousrailfan.com/images/REA_rail_car.jpg

Dennis


Re: chlorine cannister flats

Allan Smith
 

The article is in Model Railroader November 1953 Page 66-70. Building an HO Chlorine Car by Eric Stevens.

Al Smith
Sonra CA

On Wednesday, February 19, 2020, 03:33:30 PM PST, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Ron Merrick wrote:

I'd say it was certainly possible that the cars could have moved empty sometimes, but more than likely a loaded car went to a customer with full containers and returned with empty containers from the last shipment.

  This is my understanding too. Cars always carried containers, loaded or empty. I would think an empty one would be out of service.

Tony Thompson




Re: chlorine canister flats

s shaffer
 

I remember in the 1940's 50's Model Railroader magazine ran a series of scratch building "Dollar Models". One of them was a chlorine tank car.

Steve Shaffer


Re: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions

naptownprr
 

So how were the cars lettered before 1953?


Jim Hunter


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2020 7:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [External] Re: [RealSTMFC] REA questions
 
This message was sent from a non-IU address. Please exercise caution when clicking links or opening attachments from external sources.

Don

The gold lettered scheme was introduced in 1953.

The white lettered scheme began in 1960.

Then from 1961 the lettering style changed to sans serif and the
new REA herald was introduced. At first the cars were Hunter Green
and then later Chromate Green.

Tim O'



On 2/11/2020 10:06 PM, Don DeLay via Groups.Io wrote:

I have a few questions if anyone knows the answers. What years are these cars good for and when did the paint change from dark to light green? Thanks in advance

Don DeLay

Attachments:

_


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: chlorine canister flats

Tony Thompson
 

    Those who have Ed Kaminski's book on AC&F tank cars can see an advertisement with a drawing for a "one-ton" liquified-gas container on page 8, including a cutaway of the attachment point.

Tony Thompson




Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Allen Cain
 

Here are some pictures of the Chlorine canister cars along with one of the MTS model.  Note that in some you are seeing the top of the canister with the connection point and it some the domed bottom.

Allen Cain


Re: Virginia Chemical Tank Cars

Allen Cain
 

Here are some pictures of the Chlorine cars with the canisters including one of the MTS model.

Allen Cain