Stewart did offer the heap shield at one time as a separate part. I don't know if Bowser is still offering the or not. It was a add-on part to make the lone original demonstrator PRR H39 which had the heap shield. The shield was dropped from the production run of H39's. The shield was included on the demonstrator at the insistence of C&O who along with N&W partnered with the PRR to develop the H39.

What is a DT&I hopper doing in Tracy in Oct. 1948?

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/index.html
<http://www.steamfreightcars.com/index.html>;

Schuyler,

The most noticable difference (to me) between the Erie cars and the Accurail

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler Larrabee
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper



http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw82243adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw82243adb.jpg>;

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie24000bdb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie24000bdb.jpg>;

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie25500adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie25500adb.jpg>;

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie26729adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie26729adb.jpg>;

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie27708adb.jpg
<http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie27708adb.jpg>;

OK, so my bias shows in these selections. But this is the shape of the
side sills that Ed is talking about here. I am looking forward to this
kit, though Ed's comments about the reuse of the 50-ton end is
disappointing. If Accurail is going to do a new model, I'd like to see the

Modelers of at least most if not all the roads listed on Accurail's
page have been waiting for these models for a long time. And since I
had some trouble figuring out what people were talking about (OK, I'm dense

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/7700.htm
<http://www.accurail.com/accurail/7700.htm>;

SGL

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
Behalf Of Ed Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:29 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper




On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:14 PM, devansprr wrote:

Outside of the taper, and the number of ribs, it seems like the
various prototype cars had few spotting differences outside of
safety appliances? (and the obvious peak vs flat ends) Can someone
educate me?

Dave,
When looking at the various 50-ton AAR hopper cars that were built,
one of the key features I look at to distinguish one version from
another is the shape of the side sills. The earliest version (used
from 1934 to
1949) had side sills that angled upward from the bolsters to the
corners and were straight between the bolsters. A later version
(used from 1940-1960) had side sills that were level with the track
from the bolsters to the corners and had a shallow fish-belly
between the bolsters. Note there's a 10-year overlap from 1940-1949
where new cars could have either version. By the way, the same side
sill variations were present on 70-ton AAR offset-side hoppers.

The Atlas model has side sills representing the early version while
the Athearn and Kadee models have side sills representing the later
version. The image of the model on the Accurail web site shows a
side sill of the early version.

Then, of course, there are the differences in how the side sheets
nearest the ends were formed as well as a variety of different end
arrangements. The combinations of all of these variations are
practically endless, not to mention other more subtle differences
and specialty items.

Some ends with flat tops used angles extending from the top of the
end to the end sills, others used channels extending from the bottom
of the end sheets to the end sills, and some used closely spaced

Further variations include ends having extensions (i.e., peaked
ends/heap shields) of various shapes. All of these combinations add
to the complexity and cost of tooling.

It's my understanding that Accurail is using the same end
configuration for their 50-ton model as they used on their 70-ton
model. It represents (poorly in my opinion) an end arrangement
having Z-section vertical supports that are closely spaced near the
middle. The Z-sections on the model aren't Z-sections, and instead
are rectangular cross sections, because otherwise the body could not
be ejected from the mold. Unfortunately, combining this end with the
side arrangement creates a very rare prototype 50-ton AAR hopper car.

There are other end arrangements that would be a better choice for
more road names. It comes down to the tooling cost involved with
making other variants. Since Accurail already had the end tooled
from their 70-ton model, they chose economy by reusing the end
despite the relative rarity of the car that will be offered.
Depending on sales once the models are released, perhaps Accurail
might be open to offering other end variations that were more
commonly found on prototype 50-ton AAR Standard hopper cars.

My intent is NOT to hurt Accurail sales, but rather to help educate
consumers in making an informed decision on what they buy. To that
end I will be happy to assist any manufacturer interested in
producing accurate models of AAR hopper cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

Does anyone know what is contained in decal set MEVP 60' Con-Cor Auto Parts

Thanks!
Francis A. Pehowic, Jr. in Sunbury, Pa.

....I would have appreciated something with separately applied
grabs...

"Separately applied grabs" has become a global uncritical mantra for
so many of us, the undersigned included. However, that said, and at
the risk of being labeled as the anti-Christ, I also think that we are
also not really critically assessing a selective number of production
models from the past few years that indeed may be absolutely OK, in
total or in part, with meticulously molded grabs. In this regard, I
will await inspection of the new model before rendering judgment.

The finely rendered molded grabs on Accurail's recent gondolas and
three bay hoppers are acceptable to me "as delivered", especially
after simple weathering. My thoughts in this regard received a
considerable boost this past January in Cocoa Beach when one of the
most respected members of this list showed me several of his finely
finished and weathered Accurail gons with all grabs intact and asked
whether or not I agreed with his considered choice to keep them.

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

Possibly because F&C has one available?
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6002.html

Eric


Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Starting over in a new house:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Are the WA&G cars also XM-1's? Why didn't Martin do lettering for
these cars? Were they modified so much it would have required a new
kit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&;item=130342818897

Tim O'Connor

Andy

The quickest spotting feature is the 'gusset' ribs along the
top chord. The AAR standard cars use a simple L shaped angle,
while the alt standard cars use a hat section rib. And as you
point out, the reinforced vertical rivet seams are the other
major spotting feature.

Sunshine actually made a mini-kit for the alt std car. You are
supposed to file the sides of the Atlas (or Athearn?) car smooth
(no detail of any kind including gussets) and then you apply a
thin resin overlay on the side. I haven't tried it yet so I do
not know how successful it will be.

Tim O'Connor

Schuyler,

The most noticable difference (to me) between the Erie cars and the Accurail is the double row of rivits with a reenforcing plate on the end and center ribs on the Erie cars. The Accurail cars show only a single rivit line. Admittedly ony an artists rendition of the car. But I beleive this is one of the differences between the AAR std and the AAR alternate design.

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Schuyler Larrabee
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 9:32 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper



http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/dlw82243adb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie24000bdb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie25500adb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie26729adb.jpg

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie27708adb.jpg

OK, so my bias shows in these selections. But this is the shape of the side sills that Ed is
talking about here. I am looking forward to this kit, though Ed's comments about the reuse of the
50-ton end is disappointing. If Accurail is going to do a new model, I'd like to see the ENTIRE
model done new.

Modelers of at least most if not all the roads listed on Accurail's page have been waiting for these
models for a long time. And since I had some trouble figuring out what people were talking about
(OK, I'm dense at times . . .), this is their page:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/7700.htm

SGL

> -----Original Message-----
> From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed Hawkins
> Sent: Wednesday, November 18, 2009 12:29 PM
> To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: New Accurail Offset twin hopper
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 17, 2009, at 10:14 PM, devansprr wrote:
>
> > Outside of the taper, and the number of ribs, it seems like the
> > various prototype cars had few spotting differences outside of safety
> > appliances? (and the obvious peak vs flat ends) Can someone educate
> > me?
> >
>
> Dave,
> When looking at the various 50-ton AAR hopper cars that were built, one
> of the key features I look at to distinguish one version from another
> is the shape of the side sills. The earliest version (used from 1934 to
> 1949) had side sills that angled upward from the bolsters to the
> corners and were straight between the bolsters. A later version (used
> from 1940-1960) had side sills that were level with the track from the
> bolsters to the corners and had a shallow fish-belly between the
> bolsters. Note there's a 10-year overlap from 1940-1949 where new cars
> could have either version. By the way, the same side sill variations
> were present on 70-ton AAR offset-side hoppers.
>
> The Atlas model has side sills representing the early version while the
> Athearn and Kadee models have side sills representing the later
> version. The image of the model on the Accurail web site shows a side
> sill of the early version.
>
> Then, of course, there are the differences in how the side sheets
> nearest the ends were formed as well as a variety of different end
> arrangements. The combinations of all of these variations are
> practically endless, not to mention other more subtle differences and
> specialty items.
>
> Some ends with flat tops used angles extending from the top of the end
> to the end sills, others used channels extending from the bottom of the
> end sheets to the end sills, and some used closely spaced Z-sections.
> Further variations include ends having extensions (i.e., peaked
> ends/heap shields) of various shapes. All of these combinations add to
> the complexity and cost of tooling.
>
> It's my understanding that Accurail is using the same end configuration
> for their 50-ton model as they used on their 70-ton model. It
> represents (poorly in my opinion) an end arrangement having Z-section
> vertical supports that are closely spaced near the middle. The
> Z-sections on the model aren't Z-sections, and instead are rectangular
> cross sections, because otherwise the body could not be ejected from
> the mold. Unfortunately, combining this end with the side arrangement
> creates a very rare prototype 50-ton AAR hopper car.
>
> There are other end arrangements that would be a better choice for more
> road names. It comes down to the tooling cost involved with making
> other variants. Since Accurail already had the end tooled from their
> 70-ton model, they chose economy by reusing the end despite the
> relative rarity of the car that will be offered. Depending on sales
> once the models are released, perhaps Accurail might be open to
> offering other end variations that were more commonly found on
> prototype 50-ton AAR Standard hopper cars.
>
> My intent is NOT to hurt Accurail sales, but rather to help educate
> consumers in making an informed decision on what they buy. To that end
> I will be happy to assist any manufacturer interested in producing
> accurate models of AAR hopper cars.
> Regards,
> Ed Hawkins

Sunshine actually made a mini-kit for the alt std car. You are

supposed to file the sides of the Atlas (or Athearn?) car smooth
(no detail of any kind including gussets) and then you apply a
thin resin overlay on the side. I haven't tried it yet so I do
not know how successful it will be.

Tim O'Connor

Chris, sets E-2 and E-3 each have the flag etc that you want.
Each set has NJI&I reporting marks for only one car, as does
the E-1 set.

Tim O'Connor