Date   

Re: pickle cars in California (was Re: Heinz plant locations)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Tim,

Thanks for the Heinz photo. I just noticed something I've never seen before. The two tanks on this car are slightly sway-backed. My best guess is that there is a corresponding bulge on the bottom to facilitate complete draining. All the model wooden tank cars I've ever seen are absolutely straight.

I never saw a Heinz car, but I did spot a similar Standard Brands tank car around 1976 in Oakland. It was in a small SP yard along the freeway, and there was no way I could have ever gotten a photo. (Sigh!)

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 4:53 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

It happened. Not a lot. But it happened. Photo from Roseville CA in 1940.



On 7/16/2020 4:47 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
And, as for seeing Heinz cars:

In 1926, the fleet was 115 cars, 41 of them reefers

By 1935, the reefers were gone and there were 35 pickle tank cars and 10 vinegar tank cars

Slightly different mix in 1945, but only 38 cars total (and no reefers).

I'm tempted to say that the probability of seeing an HJHX car at any particular location was pretty darn low.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Attachments:


Matching Scalecoat paint to Tru Color Paint

Tim
 

Group,

Does anyone know the closest Tru Color Paint that matches up as close to Scalecoat Box Car Red #1?

Thanks in advance,

Tim Alund


Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

Peter Ness
 

Hi Doug,

 

Thanks very much. Attached my photo of SLSX 71548, which I am fairly certain is double deck with only two doors.  Is it possible the 71000-series contained both 2- and 4-door versions? Is it possible to identify if this is a Mather stock car?

 

The photo I have of NISX 3132 is undated, but definitely a 40-foot car and painted green.  Unlike the reporting marks, the letterboard on the car side seems to read “NTX” or ”NITX” with some small lettering underneath. From previous STMFC messages, it would appear green cars were leased to NYC.

 

I don’t know much about stock cars, and maybe the answer to this is in the archives; While Mathers (later North American) leased the cars, I believe many were painted in the lessee scheme? So, if there are no NISX reporting marks in say, a 1960 ORER (which would list many cars rostered in 1959) how would I go about learning the predecessor lessee of NISX cars? What I am trying to resolve: if NISX 3132 is not appropriate for 1959, who was it leased to and what were the reporting marks and number (or number series) before it was assigned as NISX 3132?

 

Stay healthy,

Peter

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 12:41 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

Peter I have a few more photos of SLSX cars, most from the 71000 series. Also the 3600 you have and a couple from the 72000 series. All have the letterboard, so I would suspect the board is missing in your photo. 3600 is a single deck car, 71000 cars are double deck, with four doors, 72000 are single deck cars.

From notes: 71038 was built 12-31 and 72221 is marked as a GATC car. Swift sold their reefer and tankcar fleets to General American in 1930/31. I assume the stockcars were included in this sale.

 

The Lifelike Proto 2000 (now Walthers) Mather car was offered as a double deck with four doors. To my knowledge it is the only HO doubledeck stockcar with four doors. The doors could be used in a kitbash on another car. The Red caboose 36’ SP car comes to mind and the Intermountain 40’ ATSF car.

 

NISX is North American Car Corp. NA purchased Mather in the late 50s. You could see Mather stockcars relettered for NISX in your era. Also beginning in the very late 50s some Mather cars were rebuilt/stretched into 50’ cars. CBQ, B&O, NYC, and perhaps others ran these cars, both single and double deck. The late Stan Radarowicz offered a kit for kitbashing these 50’ cars.

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

I did a search on Swift stock cars (and SLSX) on the group site...Ed Mines asked a question looking for an article  and I found several postings and topics with mention of photos, but that's it.

I'm hoping to learn numbers series and car types of the following....
I have photos of the following: 
SLSX 3600
SLSX 71548 with SLSX 710_ _ (last two digits not legible); SLSX 71548 is a two-level, two door car does not have a Swift Live Stock Express letterboard; were there different P&L styles or is the letterboard just missing?
SLSX 72207
- are there any accurate models of two-level, two-door stock cars? and who built these cars?
- are there any drawings of these cars? 
Apologies, I do have an ORER from Westerfield, but not with me or even handy.

Of interest; the photo is of both Swift reefers and stock cars being switched in Hartford, CT; so apparently there was a Swift plant that processed and distributed dressed meat and slaughtered livestock at the same location. Seems a little unusual for me for late-'50's New England.

I also did a search on NISX stock cars and it appears these were not only from a time beyond this group but also a time beyond my own interest, so looking for the following:
- Confirmation there were no 40' two-level, 4-door stock cars with NISX reporting marks in 1959
- Information as to what railroad and number series NISX 3132 may have belonged to in 1959 (perhaps it already belonged to National Car but but bore predecessor road markings?) 
- are there any accurate models of two-level, four-door stock cars? and who built these cars?  I would post a photo but it's taken in the future...
- are there any drawings of such cars? 

I did read several posts that National Car started to use NISX reporting marks 1960 or later. I'm really only interested in information within the timespan of this group and particularly 1958-9.

I am certain the photos I have of SLSX 71548 and NISX 3132 (both two level stock cars, but one with two doors, the other with four) were taken at the same location. and I'm musing that it may be fun to have a couple of livestock cars of different types if I can find the preceding owner of NISX 3132 or a close relative.

Stay healthy,
Peter Ness


Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

Peter Ness
 

Thank you, Jim.

 

This is very helpful. 

 

Stay healthy,

Peter Ness

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of James Brewer
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 10:17 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

Peter,

A partial answer.  According to my July 1958 ORER:

SLSX 71000 - 71999 - double deck stock cars (40' length, 8' 6" width, 8' 7" height) - 344 in service
SLSX 3100 - 38899 - single deck stock cars (40' length, 8' 5" width, 8' 7" height) - 55 in service
SLSX 3900 - 3999 - single deck stock cars (36' length, 8' 5" width, 8' 7" height) - 34 in service

I could not locate the reporting marks NISX in this issue of the ORER.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Douglas Harding
 

Looks to be a standard AAR 53’ 6” flatcar, which had a extreme deck width of 10’ 6”. Note how the deck boards overhang the stake pockets, with cut outs for the pockets.

The CGW had two lots of these flats, totaling 200 cars.

Chicago Great Western

3800-3899            100         1940       Pullman

                3900-3999            100         1944       Pullman

 

It looks like the car number is 3930. If it is that would put the photo date as 1944, when the car was brand new. The deck boards look fairly untouched.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Brusgard
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 5:18 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

 

Flatcar appears to have a little added width to deck to accommodate two side by side jeeps 5'3" = 10'6".


Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Andy Brusgard <ajb1102@...>
 

Flatcar appears to have a little added width to deck to accommodate two side by side jeeps 5'3" = 10'6".


Re: Heinz plant locations

Matthew Hurst
 

Heinz has a plant in Winchester, VA served by the Baltimore and Ohio. Vinegar and pickle cars were seen in town. 

Also National Fruit, served by the Pennsylvania Railroad, has a small collection of vinegar cars and would traverse the PRR. 

Matthew Hurst
PRRT&HS #6799
PRRT&HS modeling committee 


On Jul 16, 2020, at 4:05 PM, mel perry <clipper841@...> wrote:


hunt's had a huge cannery in hayward,
most of it long gone, except the portion
that belongs to costco's business center
mel perry

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 12:56 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
I think you have to consider the breadth of the Heinz product line beyond cucumber pickles.  Two of the CA facilities are discussed on p. 7 of the 1946 report.

Also, I'm not sure how true this was in 1946, but today CA is the leading US producer of just about any agricultural commodity that you can name (e.g., tomatoes, which make ketchup).
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


pickle cars in California (was Re: Heinz plant locations)

Tim O'Connor
 


It happened. Not a lot. But it happened. Photo from Roseville CA in 1940.



On 7/16/2020 4:47 PM, Dave Parker via groups.io wrote:
And, as for seeing Heinz cars:

In 1926, the fleet was 115 cars, 41 of them reefers

By 1935, the reefers were gone and there were 35 pickle tank cars and 10 vinegar tank cars

Slightly different mix in 1945, but only 38 cars total (and no reefers).

I'm tempted to say that the probability of seeing an HJHX car at any particular location was pretty darn low.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Looks spot on to me !


On 7/16/2020 3:02 PM, O Fenton Wells wrote:
Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Heinz plant locations

Dave Parker
 

And, as for seeing Heinz cars:

In 1926, the fleet was 115 cars, 41 of them reefers

By 1935, the reefers were gone and there were 35 pickle tank cars and 10 vinegar tank cars

Slightly different mix in 1945, but only 38 cars total (and no reefers).

I'm tempted to say that the probability of seeing an HJHX car at any particular location was pretty darn low.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

Douglas Harding
 

David, Heinz was much more than pickles. They have a plant in Muscatine IA, here is a story from the local paper.

 

For many years, Iowa tomato growers had a buyer for their crop in Muscatine.

 

Kraft Heinz’s second production facility — and the company’s first outside Pittsburgh — was constructed in Muscatine in 1893. It originally processed sauerkraut, horseradish and pickles.

 

The plant added ketchup and other tomato products in 1898. Muscatine was then in the heart of a tomato-growing region that included western Illinois. For many decades, the plant was taking in tons of tomatoes during the months of August and September and turning out millions of bottles of ketchup.

 

That changed in 1991 when Kraft Heinz switched to using tomato paste for production of ketchup and other tomato products, according to Michael Mullen, senior vice president of corporate and government affairs at Kraft Heinz.

 

Mullen said the Muscatine plant remains a strategic facility, producing ketchup, mustard, barbecue sauces, honey, hot sauce, cocktail sauce and sweet-and-sour sauces.

 

It is quite likely those California plants were processing California tomatoes. Or turning cabbage into sauerkraut. Or any of the other Heinz products. As to “Heinz” cars. Attached is a photo I took of the Muscatine plant loading tracks 8 years ago. Don’t see a single car labeled Heinz. All are large extreme height boxcars. Period photos show standard wood sheathed boxcars at the loading platforms, attached is a photo from 1914.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of David Soderblom
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Heinz plant locations

 

I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.

David Soderblom

Baltimore MD USA

 

 

 

 

 


Re: Heinz plant locations

mel perry
 

hunt's had a huge cannery in hayward,
most of it long gone, except the portion
that belongs to costco's business center
mel perry

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020, 12:56 PM Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
I think you have to consider the breadth of the Heinz product line beyond cucumber pickles.  Two of the CA facilities are discussed on p. 7 of the 1946 report.

Also, I'm not sure how true this was in 1946, but today CA is the leading US producer of just about any agricultural commodity that you can name (e.g., tomatoes, which make ketchup).
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Douglas Harding
 

Bob if you look close you can see a cable or hook wrapped around the front bumper on first two jeeps. I suspect the cable was the tie-down, along with the block of wood under the bumper.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:10 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

 

Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

An undated (probably WW II) photo from an unknown source:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/85/cf/fd85cfe7acc1cdd07a519bfd9ea4864b.jpg

The location probably is Barstow, CA.

I can't see any tie-downs in the photo but there certainly is adequate blocking for the jeeps.

Also notice the Santa Fe Caswell drop-bottom gondolas in the background.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

Dave Parker
 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 11:41 AM, David Soderblom wrote:
I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.
I think you have to consider the breadth of the Heinz product line beyond cucumber pickles.  Two of the CA facilities are discussed on p. 7 of the 1946 report.

Also, I'm not sure how true this was in 1946, but today CA is the leading US producer of just about any agricultural commodity that you can name (e.g., tomatoes, which make ketchup).
 
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Heinz plant locations

mel perry
 

while on the suject of heinz, there used
to be a site dedicated to the heinz
freightcars (long since disappreared),
question i have is, after the 34' boxcars,
were there 36' cars, the reason for the
question is that the 36' cars have been
referenced by kit makers & decal
producers, but i have not found any
documentation to support this contention, if anyone can provide a
source, it would be greatly appreciated,
fyi the various decal/dry transfer
ptoducers, appear to use the red/green
for the 34's and the red yellow for both
the 34's & 36's 
thanks
mel perry


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I’m not being picky, Fenton!

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 3:02 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 

 

On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

BTW, USS Gary was a big producer.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 2:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

Ray;

 

Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Schuyler, Bill, how about this.  It's not cleaned up and has a slight bow but would glue in nice and flat 


On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 1:30 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Thanks, Bill, step-by-step always helps.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Welch
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:21 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ray;

 

Large sheets were produced for ship and submarine use, as 2 examples.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Ray Hutchison
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 1:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] EJ&E diagonal plate loader

 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: Heinz plant locations

David Soderblom
 

I note with interest the three factories in northern California, Salinas, ~Oakland, and Tracy/Los Banos.  Yet Calif. is not a producer of the materials (take a look at all those cukes from Michigan!), implying a lot of shipment of the materials from elsewhere.  Yet I don’t recall ever seeing a Heinz car in a Calif. photo, let alone many.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA






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