Date   

Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Bill Welch
 

Schuyler , the diagonal paneled roof was in place by the early 1950's. If Speedwitch is unable to find a roof for you, this is what I did to create his pattern assuming you accept Fenton's offer of the X29 roof. I should add the LNE body is the ARA version not the PRR.

—Measure the X29 roof width as this is the width of the replacement roof too. Also measure the half width to guide how much you will narrow each half of the new roof.
—narrow and shorten the X29 roof until it will just fit into the body and sand off the roof details. This will serve as the base for the new roof
—I used the Branchline Diagonal Panel roof but the InterMountain roof will also serve
—Cut the Diagonal Panel roof in half and use the measurements recorded previously to narrow each half
—Dry fit to the new base you created from the original roof and measure width. Use roof ribs to adjust alignment of the panels
—Once happy with the width decide whether to glue roof halves and then reduce the length or glue the halves down and shorten the roof.
—once happy with the new roof each end needs to be detailed to resemble the original roof and new roof saddles for the Running Board.

I hope this makes sense.

Bill Welch


Re: EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Ray Hutchison
 

This is very interesting.  My mother's family is from Joliet, and her brother had a large setup in the basement (back in the old Silver Streak days).  I have been accumulating EJ&E freight for a new yard area on layout.  I can see how to model the gondola (interesting project but not so difficult?) but I am wondering about the sheets... obviously from the mills in South Chicago/Indiana once the Joliet mill shut down... but what were they for?

Ray Hutchison
Green Bay WI


Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

Douglas Harding
 

Peter I have a few more photos of SLSX cars, most from the 71000 series. Also the 3600 you have and a couple from the 72000 series. All have the letterboard, so I would suspect the board is missing in your photo. 3600 is a single deck car, 71000 cars are double deck, with four doors, 72000 are single deck cars.

From notes: 71038 was built 12-31 and 72221 is marked as a GATC car. Swift sold their reefer and tankcar fleets to General American in 1930/31. I assume the stockcars were included in this sale.

 

The Lifelike Proto 2000 (now Walthers) Mather car was offered as a double deck with four doors. To my knowledge it is the only HO doubledeck stockcar with four doors. The doors could be used in a kitbash on another car. The Red caboose 36’ SP car comes to mind and the Intermountain 40’ ATSF car.

 

NISX is North American Car Corp. NA purchased Mather in the late 50s. You could see Mather stockcars relettered for NISX in your era. Also beginning in the very late 50s some Mather cars were rebuilt/stretched into 50’ cars. CBQ, B&O, NYC, and perhaps others ran these cars, both single and double deck. The late Stan Radarowicz offered a kit for kitbashing these 50’ cars.

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Peter Ness
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 8:54 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

 

I did a search on Swift stock cars (and SLSX) on the group site...Ed Mines asked a question looking for an article  and I found several postings and topics with mention of photos, but that's it.

I'm hoping to learn numbers series and car types of the following....
I have photos of the following: 
SLSX 3600
SLSX 71548 with SLSX 710_ _ (last two digits not legible); SLSX 71548 is a two-level, two door car does not have a Swift Live Stock Express letterboard; were there different P&L styles or is the letterboard just missing?
SLSX 72207
- are there any accurate models of two-level, two-door stock cars? and who built these cars?
- are there any drawings of these cars? 
Apologies, I do have an ORER from Westerfield, but not with me or even handy.

Of interest; the photo is of both Swift reefers and stock cars being switched in Hartford, CT; so apparently there was a Swift plant that processed and distributed dressed meat and slaughtered livestock at the same location. Seems a little unusual for me for late-'50's New England.

I also did a search on NISX stock cars and it appears these were not only from a time beyond this group but also a time beyond my own interest, so looking for the following:
- Confirmation there were no 40' two-level, 4-door stock cars with NISX reporting marks in 1959
- Information as to what railroad and number series NISX 3132 may have belonged to in 1959 (perhaps it already belonged to National Car but but bore predecessor road markings?) 
- are there any accurate models of two-level, four-door stock cars? and who built these cars?  I would post a photo but it's taken in the future...
- are there any drawings of such cars? 

I did read several posts that National Car started to use NISX reporting marks 1960 or later. I'm really only interested in information within the timespan of this group and particularly 1958-9.

I am certain the photos I have of SLSX 71548 and NISX 3132 (both two level stock cars, but one with two doors, the other with four) were taken at the same location. and I'm musing that it may be fun to have a couple of livestock cars of different types if I can find the preceding owner of NISX 3132 or a close relative.

Stay healthy,
Peter Ness


Re: EJ&E diagonal plate loader

Larry Buell
 

The through truss bridge, at MP 36.4, in the photo spans the I and M canal old turning basin adjacent to the Des Plaines River.  There are two main tracks that cross that bridge; our Bridge Dept. repainted the bridge with silver/aluminum paint in the mid to late 1980’s.

Larry Buell (ATSF)


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks, Fenton, for a) remembering this email of mine, more than two months later, and b) the offer to share your stock of “stuff.”  I’d love to have the roof to make that kit complete, but I still have a nagging question about when the roofs were replaced.  PROBABLY someone answered that question, but of course, I have completely forgotten what the answer was.  In any event I can always weather the roof substantially if it turns out it should have a newer roof and explain that this particular car has been AWOL from the LNE shops . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Thursday, July 16, 2020 9:12 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

 

Did you ever find a roof for this car?  I have an extra flat steel roof(PRR X 29 style) let me know if you need it

Fenton

 

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler


 

--

Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd

Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Heinz plant locations

Ray Breyer
 

In case any of you need a ketchup or pickle fix on your layout, and are itching to run a vat or vinegar car or two, information can be scarce on the ground regarding just where these industries were located.

So here's a 1910 Heinz map showing plant locations:
https://archive.org/details/hjheinzcompanypr00hjhe

And here's a 1946 map:

Quick stats: in 1910, Heinz had 13 packing plants, 6 vinegar plants, 67 salting stations, and 40 branch warehouses. In 1946, they had 15 packing plants, 112 salting stations, 77 fresh produce receiving stations, and 71 branch warehouses.

Keep in mind that this is less than a third of the industry represented. 


And in case anyone care, here's most of the Heinz annual reports from 1946-2010.
https://archive.org/details/hjheinzcompanyannualreports

And a nifty old Heinz informational film.
https://archive.org/details/1092BigDeliveryWagonThe

Now go out and buy Westerfield and Sunshine pickle industry cars!


Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

James Brewer
 

Peter,

A partial answer.  According to my July 1958 ORER:

SLSX 71000 - 71999 - double deck stock cars (40' length, 8' 6" width, 8' 7" height) - 344 in service
SLSX 3100 - 38899 - single deck stock cars (40' length, 8' 5" width, 8' 7" height) - 55 in service
SLSX 3900 - 3999 - single deck stock cars (36' length, 8' 5" width, 8' 7" height) - 34 in service

I could not locate the reporting marks NISX in this issue of the ORER.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


SLSX stock cars and NISX confirmation

Peter Ness
 

I did a search on Swift stock cars (and SLSX) on the group site...Ed Mines asked a question looking for an article  and I found several postings and topics with mention of photos, but that's it.

I'm hoping to learn numbers series and car types of the following....
I have photos of the following: 
SLSX 3600
SLSX 71548 with SLSX 710_ _ (last two digits not legible); SLSX 71548 is a two-level, two door car does not have a Swift Live Stock Express letterboard; were there different P&L styles or is the letterboard just missing?
SLSX 72207
- are there any accurate models of two-level, two-door stock cars? and who built these cars?
- are there any drawings of these cars? 
Apologies, I do have an ORER from Westerfield, but not with me or even handy.

Of interest; the photo is of both Swift reefers and stock cars being switched in Hartford, CT; so apparently there was a Swift plant that processed and distributed dressed meat and slaughtered livestock at the same location. Seems a little unusual for me for late-'50's New England.

I also did a search on NISX stock cars and it appears these were not only from a time beyond this group but also a time beyond my own interest, so looking for the following:
- Confirmation there were no 40' two-level, 4-door stock cars with NISX reporting marks in 1959
- Information as to what railroad and number series NISX 3132 may have belonged to in 1959 (perhaps it already belonged to National Car but but bore predecessor road markings?) 
- are there any accurate models of two-level, four-door stock cars? and who built these cars?  I would post a photo but it's taken in the future...
- are there any drawings of such cars? 

I did read several posts that National Car started to use NISX reporting marks 1960 or later. I'm really only interested in information within the timespan of this group and particularly 1958-9.

I am certain the photos I have of SLSX 71548 and NISX 3132 (both two level stock cars, but one with two doors, the other with four) were taken at the same location. and I'm musing that it may be fun to have a couple of livestock cars of different types if I can find the preceding owner of NISX 3132 or a close relative.

Stay healthy,
Peter Ness


Re: LNE 1923 box cars A question about the roofs of these cars

O Fenton Wells
 

Did you ever find a roof for this car?  I have an extra flat steel roof(PRR X 29 style) let me know if you need it
Fenton

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 6:06 PM Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

It’s been mentioned that the original roofs were replaced “in the 50s.”   Now I realize that was likely a lengthy process, but I’d like to know what the roof was in the early 50s, even the late 40s.

 

I bought a Red Caboose kit at a train show several years ago, and when I opened it a week or so ago, discovered that someone had filched the roof out of the box.  Only the roof, but without a roof . . .

 

Ted C told me he >might< have a replacement roof, though is upgrade/modernization kit is out of production.

 

If someone has a suitable roof they could provide, I’d be happy to acquire same.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Aluminum body reefers

Mont Switzer
 

Tony,

 

Correct me if I have this wrong --- like I know you will.

 

I'm thinking PFE paid the railroads by the mile to handle their cars, not by the ton, so the only benefit of lighter aluminum cars was to the shipper.  He could load tonnage on the aluminum car. 

 

This sort of mirrors the slow adoption of roller bearing trucks on freight cars.  Railroads liked to equip cars with roller bearings that stayed on home rails thus allowing any benefit from the additional investment to come back to the investor.  No sense investing in making your cars easier for other railroads to pull them.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Tony Thompson [tony@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 15, 2020 8:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Aluminum body reefers

Ron Merrick wrote:

. . . they are curiosities, and their history says a lot about the history of engineering innovations and the developments in materials science . . . Aluminum reefers seemed like an attractive target for experimentation given the relative heaviness of the steel reefer body compared to tare weight, but unfortunately they were probably one of the most troublesome since a reefer body is wet most of the time, and even worse with the salt involved, given the potential for galvanic corrosion between the steel frame and the body.  

     Can't speak for other owners, but the two PFE cars were perfectly fine in service, with minimal corrosion problems -- as the retired PFE CMO told me, certainly no more corrosion problems than with steel. This speaks to a design with careful insulation between aluminum and steel parts to minimize galvanic corrosion.
     Both PFE cars were damaged in wrecks, 20 years or so after being built, and were retired for that reason, not for any inadequate performance. So why weren't there more of them built? 
      Again, I can't speak for any other owner, but the PFE answer was, that the aluminum companies, Alcoa and Reynolds, had provided a very substantial discount on the cost of the aluminum. PFE felt there was absolutely no way they could justify paying for such a car themselves.

Tony Thompson




Re: IC green and yellow refrigerators

Tim O'Connor
 


The car in McComb is the IC aluminum ice reefer.


On 7/15/2020 1:55 PM, mopacfirst wrote:
Replying to my own post ---

On second thought, maybe the aluminum is not painted.  I'm looking at the black rivets in the sidesills.

RG7

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Aluminum body reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Ron Merrick wrote:

. . . they are curiosities, and their history says a lot about the history of engineering innovations and the developments in materials science . . . Aluminum reefers seemed like an attractive target for experimentation given the relative heaviness of the steel reefer body compared to tare weight, but unfortunately they were probably one of the most troublesome since a reefer body is wet most of the time, and even worse with the salt involved, given the potential for galvanic corrosion between the steel frame and the body.  

     Can't speak for other owners, but the two PFE cars were perfectly fine in service, with minimal corrosion problems -- as the retired PFE CMO told me, certainly no more corrosion problems than with steel. This speaks to a design with careful insulation between aluminum and steel parts to minimize galvanic corrosion.
     Both PFE cars were damaged in wrecks, 20 years or so after being built, and were retired for that reason, not for any inadequate performance. So why weren't there more of them built? 
      Again, I can't speak for any other owner, but the PFE answer was, that the aluminum companies, Alcoa and Reynolds, had provided a very substantial discount on the cost of the aluminum. PFE felt there was absolutely no way they could justify paying for such a car themselves.

Tony Thompson




Re: Aluminum body reefers, was IC green and yellow refrigerators

Richard Townsend
 

Canadian National got five. Maybe I should dust off my "early aluminum freight cars" clinic. 

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 15, 2020 4:36 pm
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Aluminum body reefers, was IC green and yellow refrigerators

I didn't know about the FGE one. In addition to the IC one, there were two built for SFRD and two built for PFE.  Both of those builds were covered in detail, one in the Santa Fe ice reefer book and the other in Tony's PFE book.  Does anyone know of others?

For my modeling purposes, these cars are of no interest, because the chance of any of them (except perhaps the IC car, in banana service) being on my railroad would have been vanishingly small.  But they are curiosities, and their history says a lot about the history of engineering innovations and the developments in materials science.  These cars are perhaps more closely related to the relatively large group of aluminum-bodied passenger cars that were also built after the war, in terms of their design challenges.  Aluminum reefers seemed like an attractive target for experimentation given the relative heaviness of the steel reefer body compared to tare weight, but unfortunately they were probably one of the most troublesome since a reefer body is wet most of the time, and even worse with the salt involved, given the potential for galvanic corrosion between the steel frame and the body.  The promise of mechanical refrigeration more than likely rendered any further aluminum reefer experiments pointless.

So it looks then like the IC 51000 may be the only survivor of these experiments.

Ron Merrick


Re: Photo: Chicago & Alton Hopper Car 25101

Eric Hansmann
 

Any idea what the G.G. initials represent after the Capacity 100000 line? I suspect Gross is one of the words.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 15, 2020, at 6:16 PM, David via groups.io <jaydeet2001=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:

Pressed Steel Car "straight sill" hopper, from series 25010-25159, built in 1900. PSC built over 7,000 of these between 1900-1904. This photo is far and away the most detailed image I've ever seen for this design.

David Thompson




Aluminum body reefers, was IC green and yellow refrigerators

mopacfirst
 

I didn't know about the FGE one. In addition to the IC one, there were two built for SFRD and two built for PFE.  Both of those builds were covered in detail, one in the Santa Fe ice reefer book and the other in Tony's PFE book.  Does anyone know of others?

For my modeling purposes, these cars are of no interest, because the chance of any of them (except perhaps the IC car, in banana service) being on my railroad would have been vanishingly small.  But they are curiosities, and their history says a lot about the history of engineering innovations and the developments in materials science.  These cars are perhaps more closely related to the relatively large group of aluminum-bodied passenger cars that were also built after the war, in terms of their design challenges.  Aluminum reefers seemed like an attractive target for experimentation given the relative heaviness of the steel reefer body compared to tare weight, but unfortunately they were probably one of the most troublesome since a reefer body is wet most of the time, and even worse with the salt involved, given the potential for galvanic corrosion between the steel frame and the body.  The promise of mechanical refrigeration more than likely rendered any further aluminum reefer experiments pointless.

So it looks then like the IC 51000 may be the only survivor of these experiments.

Ron Merrick


Photo: Chicago & Alton Hopper Car 25101

David
 

Pressed Steel Car "straight sill" hopper, from series 25010-25159, built in 1900.  PSC built over 7,000  of these between 1900-1904. This photo is far and away the most detailed image I've ever seen for this design.

David Thompson


Re: IC green and yellow refrigerators

Bill Welch
 

Fruit Growers Express also built an aluminum reefer in 1946—FGEX 40000—and exhibited it widely within its territory before being putting into service. It rode on Roller Bearing Andrews trucks. It was rebuilt in late 1957-early 1958 with new electric fans, new aluminum sheathing, and a built-in underslung heater and commensurate piping under the floor racks. It was sold for scrap in the early 1970's. With its Improved Dreadnaught ends it looks very much like a PFE 40-23.

Bill Welch


Re: IC green and yellow refrigerators

Jeffrey White
 

Ron,

IC 5100 is on display at McComb MS.  It was the only car built and the only one in the natural aluminum finish.  It was built in 1946.

Jeff White

Alma, IL

On 7/15/2020 10:08 AM, mopacfirst wrote:
I think there's one at McComb, Mississippi, on the west side of the main line right opposite the station.  It's under roof, along with some stuff that's not freight cars.  I've only seen the side of it that you can see from the train.  It's probably in the last scheme.

This car has significance for me because the line that brought the banana cars to my city was the MP, from St. Louis I presume.

Ron Merrick


Re: IC green and yellow refrigerators

Richard Townsend
 

I can't say whether it is or isn't, but everything I see in the photos is consistent with the original aluminum IC 51000. The extended sill, the extended tabs at the bolsters, the locations of the various tack boards, the fan plate, end type, ladders and handholds, all are the same. For those who care, it was built in 1946. It was built with a Duryea underframe, ASF A-3 Ride Control trucks, Morton running board and brake step.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Thompson <tony@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: Wed, Jul 15, 2020 10:32 am
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] IC green and yellow refrigerators

Ron Merrick wrote:

I do have two photos of the McComb car, had to bracket the car because of the closeness to the track.  I agree they're useless for paint, but perhaps interesting for detail.  This car has extended sidesill reinforcements, six-rung ladders and round-corner ends.  It's numbered 51000, so I'm not sure how it relates to the cars discussed here.

     The real 51000 was an aluminum car. Could this possibly, actually, be that car?

Tony Thompson




Re: IC green and yellow refrigerators

mopacfirst
 

Replying to my own post ---

On second thought, maybe the aluminum is not painted.  I'm looking at the black rivets in the sidesills.

RG7

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