Date   

Re: Fw: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Bruce A. Metcalf
 

On 2/21/20 7:53 AM, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) wrote:

It is true the details are not clear enough, but to my eyes it looks like there are eight per car, arranged 4 long by 2 wide. each of the eight load items appears to have the wood secured with two dark black bands
Aha! Now I know what these look like. I think they are bundles of untreated ties ready to be put into the creosote retorts.

I lived in Chattanooga when they still had a creosoting plant. Ties, line poles, and what not were bundled so they would nearly fill the cylindrical tanks. Any number of them would be rolled in on wee four-wheel carts, the end cap bolted on, and the creosote pumped in and out using pressure and vacuum. Stinky, but effective.

That's my story and I'm sticking with it!

Cheers,
/ Bruce /


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

lrkdbn
 

Back in the mid 1970's I used to see this type of car at the old Pennsalt plant in Riverview MI. Most of them
looked like the ones in the 1940 CBD which was my basic resource then (the Kalmbach reprint which cost
an unbelieveable $40.00 then! Major money!!!) but one was different. The center sill was open, like truss rods except made of angle bars, so sort of a built up truss center sill. I seem to recall that IRM has what they describe as an ex NYC flat car built in 1912 by Pullman that has this same construction. My question would be -was the car I saw a conversion from a NYC car or even the same car that is now at IRM? The NYC did serve the chemical industry around Buffalo NY as well as the"downriver" Detroit area.where I saw the car.Any thoughts?
Larry King


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Donald B. Valentine
 

Plans for these cars for 15 canisters from ACF can be found on page #348 of the 
1937 CarBuilders Cyclopedia with a photo on page #349 acompanying photos of
the USN and USA helium cars.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

Tim O'Connor
 


And here's an Ft-G with a wire wrapped redwood pipe load !!



On 2/21/2020 6:48 PM, Jim Gates via Groups.Io wrote:

Based on the stake pocket positions and the rivets above the bolster I would say class Ft-G.

Jim Gates
On Friday, February 21, 2020, 03:41:47 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Good friends,

Back in the late 1980s I discovered the remains of the Nelson & Albemarle Railroad, and its owner Alberene Stone Corporation in Schuyler, Virginia (the real-life Walton's Mountain of TV fame). The then-owner let me prowl around his property (yeah, I know liability, but this guy was known to walk around with a primed stick of dynamite sticking out of his shirt pocket).

I discovered that there were three ancient flat cars still in the plant. After the Nelson & Albemarle was abandoned in 1962, a short stretch of track was left intact between the factory and its associated machine shop for moving heavy machinery that might need repair. Three flatcars were retained, along with a small Plymouth locomotive. The locomotive was scrapped around 1967, but the flat cars were still in the weeds when I saw them around 1986 or 1987. I don't know if they are still there. The operation was sold to a Finish company around 1989, and they did some clean-up work on the property. I did mention to the Finish manager that these three cars would be welcome in any railroad museum, but my guess is they were scrapped.

One car was partially identifiable by the stake pockets which had ATSF CM 1921 cast into them. All three were still on arch bar trucks, which suggests they were on the property before WWII.

I have attached two photos of the car with the Santa Fe stake pockets for your commentary and approval. I would be curious to know what class the Santa Fe car was from, though I'm not sure all three were from the same source. They were very hard to inspect and photograph in the brush.

I'm going to head down that way one of these days and will see if by some miracle the cars are still there. Another miracle will be if they let me into the plant.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

Thomas Evans
 

I used to pack a Sandvik Brush Axe for clearing photo lines.
They can cut up to ~1" diameter & are (were) used by land surveyors.
I used it only occasionally, so it now resides in my coat closet.

Tom


Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

I see it’s more properly called a grass whip.

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of "BRIAN PAUL EHNI via Groups.Io" <bpehni@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Friday, February 21, 2020 at 7:56 PM
To: <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

 

I used to pack a swing blade when railfanning. 

Thanks!

Brian Ehni 

(Sent from my iPhone)



On Feb 21, 2020, at 6:30 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

A nice find at the time. Your photos illustrate why a weed wacker should the next thing in ones field pack after the cameras. :-)

Bob Witt


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Andy Laurent
 

Besides water treatment, these cars also would have delivered chlorine to paper mills. Attached is a photo of an unidentified chlorine TMU car at the Consolidated Papers mill in Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin during the early 1960s. One car is visible in the center, along with 2 rows of chlorine cylinders on "ground racks" behind the Quonset hut. Note the more modern GATX chlorine car to the right. This mill produced magazine-grade papers. Photo by H. Weldon McGee.

Andy L.
Wisconsin


Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

I used to pack a swing blade when railfanning. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Feb 21, 2020, at 6:30 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:

A nice find at the time. Your photos illustrate why a weed wacker should the next thing in ones field pack after the cameras. :-)

Bob Witt


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Allen Cain
 

I suspect that Chlorine is highly corrosive which might explain the rust on the trucks.  Of course, any leakage would be deadly.

Allen Cain


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

rwitt_2000
 

Someone found this referemce some time ago.


Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

Charles Peck
 

You spell weed wacker your way, I spell it M-A-C-H-E-T-E.
Never runs out of gas.
Chuck Peck

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 7:30 PM rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io <rwitt_2000=yahoo.com@groups.io> wrote:
A nice find at the time. Your photos illustrate why a weed wacker should the next thing in ones field pack after the cameras. :-)

Bob Witt


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

David Soderblom
 

An interesting aspect of this photo is the rust on both trucks.  Maybe it’s “boxcar red” overspray, but I personally don’t recall seeing rust on freight car trucks because they always have so much oil and black all over them.

David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA






Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

rwitt_2000
 

A nice find at the time. Your photos illustrate why a weed wacker should the next thing in ones field pack after the cameras. :-)

Bob Witt


Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

Jim Gates
 


Based on the stake pocket positions and the rivets above the bolster I would say class Ft-G.

Jim Gates

On Friday, February 21, 2020, 03:41:47 PM CST, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


Good friends,

Back in the late 1980s I discovered the remains of the Nelson & Albemarle Railroad, and its owner Alberene Stone Corporation in Schuyler, Virginia (the real-life Walton's Mountain of TV fame). The then-owner let me prowl around his property (yeah, I know liability, but this guy was known to walk around with a primed stick of dynamite sticking out of his shirt pocket).

I discovered that there were three ancient flat cars still in the plant. After the Nelson & Albemarle was abandoned in 1962, a short stretch of track was left intact between the factory and its associated machine shop for moving heavy machinery that might need repair. Three flatcars were retained, along with a small Plymouth locomotive. The locomotive was scrapped around 1967, but the flat cars were still in the weeds when I saw them around 1986 or 1987. I don't know if they are still there. The operation was sold to a Finish company around 1989, and they did some clean-up work on the property. I did mention to the Finish manager that these three cars would be welcome in any railroad museum, but my guess is they were scrapped.

One car was partially identifiable by the stake pockets which had ATSF CM 1921 cast into them. All three were still on arch bar trucks, which suggests they were on the property before WWII.

I have attached two photos of the car with the Santa Fe stake pockets for your commentary and approval. I would be curious to know what class the Santa Fe car was from, though I'm not sure all three were from the same source. They were very hard to inspect and photograph in the brush.

I'm going to head down that way one of these days and will see if by some miracle the cars are still there. Another miracle will be if they let me into the plant.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

I saw a program on TV about such a move. The cars were chained together as well, to prevent accidental uncoupling.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 

From: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...>
Reply-To: <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Date: Friday, February 21, 2020 at 12:11 PM
To: <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: Fw: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

 

I seem to remember seeing a similar picture years ago. It was undersea

telegraph or telephone cable.  It was wound spool to spool to spool and

continued across from car to car in one long continuous length.

Uncoupling levers had been removed, as I recall.

Chuck Peck

 

On Fri, Feb 21, 2020 at 12:53 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Andy and List Members,

 

Andy wrote: "Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car"

 

It is true the details are not clear enough, but to my eyes it looks like there are eight per car, arranged 4 long by 2 wide. each of the eight load items appears to have the wood secured with two dark black bands

 

Enjoy!

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

----- Original Message -----

Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2020 10:34 PM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

 

Here's an enlargement of 2 of the mystery load cars. Details aren't clear enough to tell what kind of loads these are, but there's 2 per car.

Andy Jackson

Santa Fe Springs CA

 


Re: Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

Charlie Vlk
 

Garth-

Good find!   I looked on a satellite image but not knowing where to look and the probability that trees would shield them anyway didn’t see any trace of cars.   A winter satellite image might show something.  

I wonder if the cars were purchased secondhand or if the BNSF is still looking for them!!!

Charlie Vlk

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2020 3:40 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

 

Good friends,

 

Back in the late 1980s I discovered the remains of the Nelson & Albemarle Railroad, and its owner Alberene Stone Corporation in Schuyler, Virginia (the real-life Walton's Mountain of TV fame). The then-owner let me prowl around his property (yeah, I know liability, but this guy was known to walk around with a primed stick of dynamite sticking out of his shirt pocket).

 

I discovered that there were three ancient flat cars still in the plant. After the Nelson & Albemarle was abandoned in 1962, a short stretch of track was left intact between the factory and its associated machine shop for moving heavy machinery that might need repair. Three flatcars were retained, along with a small Plymouth locomotive. The locomotive was scrapped around 1967, but the flat cars were still in the weeds when I saw them around 1986 or 1987. I don't know if they are still there. The operation was sold to a Finish company around 1989, and they did some clean-up work on the property. I did mention to the Finish manager that these three cars would be welcome in any railroad museum, but my guess is they were scrapped.

 

One car was partially identifiable by the stake pockets which had ATSF CM 1921 cast into them. All three were still on arch bar trucks, which suggests they were on the property before WWII.

 

I have attached two photos of the car with the Santa Fe stake pockets for your commentary and approval. I would be curious to know what class the Santa Fe car was from, though I'm not sure all three were from the same source. They were very hard to inspect and photograph in the brush.

 

I'm going to head down that way one of these days and will see if by some miracle the cars are still there. Another miracle will be if they let me into the plant.


Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


Re: chlorine cannister flats (was Virginia Chemical Tank Cars)

Rex Racer
 

For some strange reason I have been collecting information about these cars for awhile now. Here's what I have:

Initial builds by ACF started in the 1920's and production lasted to just before 1950. General American Car Co. and Standard Steel Car Co. also produced similar cars during this same time. Carrying capacities of these cars ranged from 60,000 to 80,000 pounds and had a capacity of fifteen horizontally mounted tanks. These cars were used by Columbia Alkali Gas Co., Hooker Chemical Co., E.L. Dupont and others. Some of these cars lasted until the 1990's. Main purpose was to provide chlorine to water treatment plants but had other uses as well.

SHPX 222 is identified as AAR type FM (flat general service); similar cars have also been denoted as AAR type TMU (tank multiple unit) because these cars really don't function as flat cars for any lading except removable, high pressure gas cylinders. These cars were used to handle acid gases like chlorine for customers without direct rail service or the inability to unload and store a full tank car load. The last large-scale user of this system is Department Of Defense. Many outdated chemical weapons materials traveled their last miles in these unusual tank cars. This car has been imported in brass at least 3 times in the last 30 years and was actually a "dollar model" project in Model Railroader magazine.

In addition to the cars listed, I also have photos of the following:

ACCX - 10 cars, 4 lots 1926-1935
ACFX - 401 to 441, 513, 522
ACF - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1941 (U.S.A. Chief of Engineers)
ATGX 105
BAKX - 2 cars, 2 lots 1931-1932
BCX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1926-1931
CACX (or possibly PPGX) - 21 cars, 2 lots 1936-1937
CALX - 3 cars, 3 lots 1927-1934
CILX (Canada) - 2 cars, 2 lots 1932, 1945 90, 92, and 450
C&NW 10864
DAX - 23 cars, 11 lots 1928-1946 309
DUPX - 15 cars, 3 lots 1926-1933 9010
EGBX 208 (Electro Bleaching Gas Co)
GCX - 26 cars, 1 lot, built 1948
GWEX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1927-1928
HOKX - 8 cars, 2 lots 1925-1926 (Hooker Chemicals), 211-213, 380, 385-387, 389, 391
JCIX 122, 131, 1136, 1137
MA? 365 (Mathieson) - Can't see all of reporting marks
MALX - 10 cars, 1 lot, built 1925
MONX - 7 cars, 3 lots 1932-1936
PPGX 121
PSMX - 32 cars, 12 lots 1924-1948 (Pennsylvania Salt) 1001, 1003, 1005-1033
RTCX 340
SHPX - 101 cars, 16 lots 1937-1948 (lessees - Westvaco, DuPont, Diamond Chemical, likely others)
SPX - 44 cars, 11 lots 1927-1948 (Solvay Process Co.) 854
TELX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930
TENX - 4 cars, 1 lot, built 1949 (for sulphur dioxide containers)
USAX 16503 (US Army)
UTLX 80000-80003 - Believed to be former CILX 90-93. Renumbered in 1956

VCSX 212
VSX - 15 cars, 5 lots 1924-1929
WCX - 1 car, 1 lot, built 1930? (unsure about this order)





Old Santa Fe Flat Cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Good friends,

Back in the late 1980s I discovered the remains of the Nelson & Albemarle Railroad, and its owner Alberene Stone Corporation in Schuyler, Virginia (the real-life Walton's Mountain of TV fame). The then-owner let me prowl around his property (yeah, I know liability, but this guy was known to walk around with a primed stick of dynamite sticking out of his shirt pocket).

I discovered that there were three ancient flat cars still in the plant. After the Nelson & Albemarle was abandoned in 1962, a short stretch of track was left intact between the factory and its associated machine shop for moving heavy machinery that might need repair. Three flatcars were retained, along with a small Plymouth locomotive. The locomotive was scrapped around 1967, but the flat cars were still in the weeds when I saw them around 1986 or 1987. I don't know if they are still there. The operation was sold to a Finish company around 1989, and they did some clean-up work on the property. I did mention to the Finish manager that these three cars would be welcome in any railroad museum, but my guess is they were scrapped.

One car was partially identifiable by the stake pockets which had ATSF CM 1921 cast into them. All three were still on arch bar trucks, which suggests they were on the property before WWII.

I have attached two photos of the car with the Santa Fe stake pockets for your commentary and approval. I would be curious to know what class the Santa Fe car was from, though I'm not sure all three were from the same source. They were very hard to inspect and photograph in the brush.

I'm going to head down that way one of these days and will see if by some miracle the cars are still there. Another miracle will be if they let me into the plant.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


Re: Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

 

There were 2 "tanks" on each flat car. Have to agree that those loads were redwood pipes since they were in such extensive use back then.
Andy Jackson
Santa Fe Springs CA



Re: Fw: [RealSTMFC] Santa Fe Freight Near Victorville - Mystery Loads

Steve Salotti
 

Hi Chuck,
I believe the load you are remembering was a cable load made by the Okonite Company in Paterson New Jersey for a cable line on the west coast.  The train was 13 Erie gons, and safety chains were welded between all of the cars.  As you said, it wound in tight circles in each car and then continuously into the next. I remember  it since Okonite was on the NYS&W and I model that plant on my layout (but not that train).
Steve Salotti