Date   

Re: Missing links

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Elden Gatwood says:


PRR modelers are quite numerous, but pretty much everyone modeling a North
American railroad between the 30's and 60's should have at least one.

BTW, I saw one sitting on a siding in Wyoming in the late 60's, out in the
middle of nowhere.
In the "middle of nowhere"? Wyoming? I beg your pardon, sir. If you are referring to certain tracks in Southeastern Wyoming, you are referring to railroad Mecca....hardly in the "middle of nowhere."

Mike Brock


Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Chuck,

Sure, you might have found a CofG car in Clifton Forge, but keep in mind that the C&O also had ventilators of their own.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

RUTLANDRS@aol.com wrote:

Lee,
I have used painted Navy beans as watermelons in the past. From what I've heard, the floor of a watermelon car was covered with a heavy layer of straw then the melons were loaded into the car, supposedly with out further straw.
A CofG car very well could have come into Clifton Forge.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad,
Virginia Division


Re: W&LE BOOK(S)

William Bryk <wmbryk@...>
 

John B. Corn wrote two books on the Wheeling & Lake Erie. While he covers
the history with a conventional narrative, he clearly preferred telling the
story through excellent, well-captioned photographs. I recommend them
both.

Regards,
William Bryk

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 7:17 AM, brooklynbus <mec-bml@sbcglobal.net> wrote:



GENTLEMAN:Wasnt(Isnt)there a series of books on the history of the WLE
before and after the NKP take over???
Thanks
Joel Norman



Load type

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Anyone have any idea what this load might be? Some type of insulation?

PRR
613695
612000-614999
G31a
Allison Insulat



Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

Bruce Smith
 

On Oct 26, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

Lee,

Those watermelon cars did get around. There are several photos in
Richard E. Prince's book RICHMOND-WASHINGTON FAST FREIGHT LINE of them
in RF&P trains. Apparently they came off the ACL or SAL at Richmond and
then headed up the RF&P to Washington where they were handed off to the
PRR. This suggests New York was the ultimate destination. In most photos
they are near the head of the trains, but Prince and his friends were
aiming their cameras at the locomotives. There may be more back further.
I'll add that there are numerous photos of these and similar cars in the Philadelphia area, so not all the ones handed off to PRR went to NYC <G>.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

water.kresse@...
 

SAL watermellon ventilated boxes came up the Chinchfield thru the C&O's Russell yard and on up to Chicago and back again in the summers of late-40s thru mid-50s.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Worthy" <don_worthy@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 10:44:05 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [STMFC] CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

I found a photo of a stack of Mellon's and downloaded it. Then re sized so the Mellon's were almost 12" in diameter. Cut them out and glued to sides of door way. I've got a photo posted on the CofG modelers group.
I've sense found a photo that shows the "fence" (for lack of better term) across the doorway. It was then covered with burlap bags and hay or wheat straw was packed around them so the mellons would not move up against the doors, sides and each other and get all skinned up.
Don Worthy

--- On Sun, 10/25/09, Paul <buygone@earthlink.net> wrote:


From: Paul <buygone@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 10:25 PM


 



Lee:

In one of the commercially available videos or DVD's there is a shot of one
with the ventilator door in place running eight cars behind a Cab-Forward.

Paul C. Koehler

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
jjgotrox
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

I have a friend who is building one of the Smokey Mountain CofG ventilated
box cars and would like to build it for watermelon service. He'd like to
know if anyone has experience modeling the watermelons and what they used.
It looks like a great prototype. Would watermelon cars have traveled fairly
far away from home road, or were they for local transport of watermelons?
Once he's done, it would be nice to run the car on a friend's layout set on
the C&O (Hinton, WV to Clifton Forge, VA) in the early 1950's. Would a CofG
car carrying watermelons have ventured that far?

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat <http://www.railgoat .railfan. net/> .railfan.net/

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

















      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: W&LE BOOK(S)

Eric Hansmann
 

John Corns authored two books on the Wheeling & Lake Erie; W&LE vol 1, and W&LE Vol 2. Both volumes contained images of railroads that were merged into the W&LE and a few imags of the NKP years. Both volumes offered a solid review of the railroad.

Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Starting Over in a new House:
http://designbuildop.hansmanns.org/

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brooklynbus" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN:Wasnt(Isnt)there a series of books on the history of the WLE before and after the NKP take over???
Thanks
Joel Norman


Re: Missing links

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

I agree with Tim and Bruce.

A state-of-the-art PRR X31A is way overdue. They were seen everywhere,
lasted into the 60's, were painted in a number of schemes, and numbered in
the thousands right to the end.

PRR modelers are quite numerous, but pretty much everyone modeling a North
American railroad between the 30's and 60's should have at least one.

BTW, I saw one sitting on a siding in Wyoming in the late 60's, out in the
middle of nowhere.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Friday, October 23, 2009 7:34 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Missing links



Armand

No one has done a mass production RTR USRA single sheathed box car.
Not that I think they should, but it's strange no one has done it.

A ridiculously desperately needed high quality car is the PRR X31 round roof
cars. And the X32 as well. You know, something to go with all those excellent
Red Cabosoe X29's.

A good candidate for a one railroad car would be the SLSF single sheathed
cars, including the cars with replacement steel sheathing.
Those cars got around the country and lasted into the 1970's.

I gave up lobbying for the 1950's PC&F 40 foot plug door reefers.
No one seems interested in the later 1950's... but if anyone does do it
PLEASE do the ends correctly (no one ever has in plastic, resin or brass) and
make them available as separate parts (I need at least 20 pairs of
replacement ends)

Tim O'Connor

At 10/23/2009 03:10 PM Friday, you wrote:
Elden,While there are many "missing links" some of the nominees are
relatively rare or are examples of regional bias.I was hoping,as a group, we
could come up with a list of cars represented by either large numbers or with
more universal appeal..Armand Premo.


Re: W&LE BOOK(S)

hoghead32 <buckfiveoh@...>
 

I don't know about any WLE series, Joel, but there was considerable coverage in word and photo in John Rehor's "Nickel Plate Story".
Mike Buckelew

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brooklynbus" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN:Wasnt(Isnt)there a series of books on the history of the WLE before and after the NKP take over???
Thanks
Joel Norman


W&LE BOOK(S)

brooklynbus <mec-bml@...>
 

GENTLEMAN:Wasnt(Isnt)there a series of books on the history of the WLE before and after the NKP take over???
Thanks
Joel Norman


Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

The G31's were painted just like the Tangent model, as-built. All initial
paint and lettering were identical, but for the builders' stencils, where
applied;

The "w" in a circle came later;

The G31 was PRR-built, the G31A was PS-built, and the G31B and G31D were
ACF-built, and the G31C and G31E were GenAm-built;

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Rueter
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:41 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!



Tim,
I misunderstood that the 1st G31s where built, by PRR shops, once I found
this table, it made things more clear.
( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31>; )

G31a where P-S?

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 5:49:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscale models.com/ prototypeimages/ PRR%20371950. jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.
Gene Green


Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Lee,

Those watermelon cars did get around. There are several photos in Richard E. Prince's book RICHMOND-WASHINGTON FAST FREIGHT LINE of them in RF&P trains. Apparently they came off the ACL or SAL at Richmond and then headed up the RF&P to Washington where they were handed off to the PRR. This suggests New York was the ultimate destination. In most photos they are near the head of the trains, but Prince and his friends were aiming their cameras at the locomotives. There may be more back further.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

jjgotrox wrote:

I have a friend who is building one of the Smokey Mountain CofG ventilated box cars and would like to build it for watermelon service. He'd like to know if anyone has experience modeling the watermelons and what they used. It looks like a great prototype. Would watermelon cars have traveled fairly far away from home road, or were they for local transport of watermelons? Once he's done, it would be nice to run the car on a friend's layout set on the C&O (Hinton, WV to Clifton Forge, VA) in the early 1950's. Would a CofG car carrying watermelons have ventured that far?

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/


Re: Proto 2000 8K tanks cars - are arch bars possible?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 25, 2009, at 8:02 PM, Dean wrote:

I have a couple of P2K tank cars (8,000 gallons) to build, and was
thinking they might be a good way to show off the Tahoe arch bar
trucks, with semi-scale wheels. These are in the UTLX 77,000-
series, but they say "built 5-20", so I don't know whether they
were built with arch bars or had cast sideframe trucks. If not,
would any other commonly available tank cars have been delivered
with arch bars? I model prior to the 1940 arch bar ban, of course.
Dean, no 8K gal. AC&F Type 21s were built new for UTL, so the cars in
the 77000 series were acquired second hand. They were on the UTL
roster as early as 10/38, so you're okay there, but not knowing who
the original owner was, there's no way to know what trucks they were
delivered with. UTL began in the early 1920s ordering new cars first
with Andrews and later with ARA cast steel trucks, and later photos
of UTL cars which arrived with Arch Bar trucks show them as also
being equipped with either Andrews or ARA trucks, so UTL apparently
phased out Arch Bar trucks quite early. The only photos I know of
their 8K gal. Type 21s date from the late 1950s and 1960s, and by
that time, of course, they had ARA trucks. So I can't say for sure
whether they originally had Arch Bars, or - if they did - whether
they would still have had them in the 1930s, but I think the odds are
against it. Certainly some Type 21s were delivered to other owners
with Arch Bars, but most were built with ARA trucks.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Oil industry info sought (steam era- tank cars etc)

Jared Harper
 

On Santa Fe's Alma branch Burlingame had about 2,000 people in the 1940s and three bulk oil jobbers. Eskridge with a population of about 550 had three. Alma with about 1200 people had two oil jobbers in the 1940s and four fuel suppliers by 1950.
Jared Harper
Athens, GA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

You are talking about bulk oil dealers. STMFC era town of 2000 or more are not complete with them - several of them, often next to each other on the same spur. Many are still there next to tracks or abandoned right-of-way even though no longer rail served. You can Google search for pictures and find a few. There are a number on the Santa Fe website at http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Howard/index.htm.
Eureka had 5 bulk oil dealers. Emporia had 6.

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: milepost1
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Oil industry info sought (steam era- tank cars etc)


Maybe I'm using the wrong keywords but I haven't had a great deal of work doing research related to small town oil storage depots in the 1930's.

In regards to this group I'm looking for some info that members might be able to point me toward.

I'm interested in STANDARD OIL and the way they transported oil to their small town distributors. I know that there was a siding SPECIFICALLY for a facility which meant that the railroad brought it in. So some type of tank car was used.

I've yet to find good photos and or drawings of Standard Oil cars circa 1930-40. Does this mean that Standard Oil didn't have their own fleet? If that is the case were they using a carrier? I don't know.

The fact that there were multiple tanks at the facilty would suggest that there were possibly multiple products. Did they ship different products in the same tank car? (I don't know but wonder if that is why some tanks had multiple domes. (You now see a glimpse of my ignorance.)

Are there good "books" on this subject?
Are there drawings? (I've looked at some commercial cars but they seem to lack the same details that I've seen in 1930 era tank cars.

I'm just trying to get the details right.

Thanks.

Gordon





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Proto 2000 8K tanks cars - are arch bars possible?

Brian Carlson
 

Dean: Kaminski's ACF tank car book shows numerous ACF Type 21's on archbars.
One model that I know P2k did was SUN OILS. However, I believe the UTLX cars
were acquired second hand when UTLX purchased other fleets, later in life so
I don't know if they would still have had arch bars then. Heck the UTLX car
you have could actually be out of your era since you model pre-40. I am sure
Richard Hendrickson will have more information.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dean
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 11:02 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Proto 2000 8K tanks cars - are arch bars possible?





I have a couple of P2K tank cars (8,000 gallons) to build, and was thinking
they might be a good way to show off the Tahoe arch bar trucks, with
semi-scale wheels. These are in the UTLX 77,000-series, but they say "built
5-20", so I don't know whether they were built with arch bars or had cast
sideframe trucks. If not, would any other commonly available tank cars have
been delivered with arch bars? I model prior to the 1940 arch bar ban, of
course.

Dean Payne


Re: Oil industry info sought (steam era- tank cars etc)

sfeforever
 

You mean not complete "without" them don't you ?

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, <steve.sandifer@...> wrote:

You are talking about bulk oil dealers. STMFC era town of 2000 or more are not complete with them - several of them, often next to each other on the same spur. Many are still there next to tracks or abandoned right-of-way even though no longer rail served. You can Google search for pictures and find a few. There are a number on the Santa Fe website at http://atsfrr.net/resources/Sandifer/Howard/index.htm.
Eureka had 5 bulk oil dealers. Emporia had 6.

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

----- Original Message -----
From: milepost1
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2009 12:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Oil industry info sought (steam era- tank cars etc)


Maybe I'm using the wrong keywords but I haven't had a great deal of work doing research related to small town oil storage depots in the 1930's.

In regards to this group I'm looking for some info that members might be able to point me toward.

I'm interested in STANDARD OIL and the way they transported oil to their small town distributors. I know that there was a siding SPECIFICALLY for a facility which meant that the railroad brought it in. So some type of tank car was used.

I've yet to find good photos and or drawings of Standard Oil cars circa 1930-40. Does this mean that Standard Oil didn't have their own fleet? If that is the case were they using a carrier? I don't know.

The fact that there were multiple tanks at the facilty would suggest that there were possibly multiple products. Did they ship different products in the same tank car? (I don't know but wonder if that is why some tanks had multiple domes. (You now see a glimpse of my ignorance.)

Are there good "books" on this subject?
Are there drawings? (I've looked at some commercial cars but they seem to lack the same details that I've seen in 1930 era tank cars.

I'm just trying to get the details right.

Thanks.

Gordon





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Proto 2000 8K tanks cars - are arch bars possible?

Dean Payne
 

I have a couple of P2K tank cars (8,000 gallons) to build, and was thinking they might be a good way to show off the Tahoe arch bar trucks, with semi-scale wheels. These are in the UTLX 77,000-series, but they say "built 5-20", so I don't know whether they were built with arch bars or had cast sideframe trucks. If not, would any other commonly available tank cars have been delivered with arch bars? I model prior to the 1940 arch bar ban, of course.

Dean Payne


Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

Don Worthy
 

I found a photo of a stack of Mellon's and downloaded it. Then re sized so the Mellon's were almost 12" in diameter. Cut them out and glued to sides of door way. I've got a photo posted on the CofG modelers group.
I've sense found a photo that shows the "fence" (for lack of better term) across the doorway. It was then covered with burlap bags and hay or wheat straw was packed around them so the mellons would not move up against the doors, sides and each other and get all skinned up.
Don Worthy

--- On Sun, 10/25/09, Paul <buygone@earthlink.net> wrote:


From: Paul <buygone@earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, October 25, 2009, 10:25 PM


 



Lee:

In one of the commercially available videos or DVD's there is a shot of one
with the ventilator door in place running eight cars behind a Cab-Forward.

Paul C. Koehler

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
jjgotrox
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

I have a friend who is building one of the Smokey Mountain CofG ventilated
box cars and would like to build it for watermelon service. He'd like to
know if anyone has experience modeling the watermelons and what they used.
It looks like a great prototype. Would watermelon cars have traveled fairly
far away from home road, or were they for local transport of watermelons?
Once he's done, it would be nice to run the car on a friend's layout set on
the C&O (Hinton, WV to Clifton Forge, VA) in the early 1950's. Would a CofG
car carrying watermelons have ventured that far?

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat <http://www.railgoat .railfan. net/> .railfan.net/


Re: W&LE question

Dean Payne
 

Fred,
There's a photo of restored W&LE caboose 911 at nkphts.org:

http://www.nkphts.org/preservation/pictures/cabooses/wle0911jpg.html

This is in the yellow scheme with black lettering, but the red scheme is the same style, with white lettering. I kitbashed an MDC Old Time caboose to make one in the red scheme.

There is a photo of one of the W&LE Berkshires with the tender lettering showing on the home page of the "un-official" W&LE site:

http://www.wle.railfan.net/

Just to keep on topic, the Berks would haul steam-era freight cars, including the W&LE AAR alt-standard hoppers recently discussed, trailed by the cabooses of the type shown in the first link.

Unfortunately (for you), the W&LE was leased by the NKP on Dec. 1, 1949. I'm not sure how long the cabooses, etc, would have still been seen painted for the W&LE, but I wouldn't think they would be seen in the "early 50's". "Early 1950", I would guess so!

Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Panhandle Division 1953" <prrinvt@...> wrote:

List,

Was billboard lettering a common scheme on W&LE caboose cars, and would it have been seen in the early 1950's ? Secondly, was this lettering ever applied to loco tenders? Thanks in advance.

Fred Freitas


Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Lee:



In one of the commercially available videos or DVD's there is a shot of one
with the ventilator door in place running eight cars behind a Cab-Forward.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
jjgotrox
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 6:54 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service





I have a friend who is building one of the Smokey Mountain CofG ventilated
box cars and would like to build it for watermelon service. He'd like to
know if anyone has experience modeling the watermelons and what they used.
It looks like a great prototype. Would watermelon cars have traveled fairly
far away from home road, or were they for local transport of watermelons?
Once he's done, it would be nice to run the car on a friend's layout set on
the C&O (Hinton, WV to Clifton Forge, VA) in the early 1950's. Would a CofG
car carrying watermelons have ventured that far?

Lee A. Gautreaux - The RailGoat
http://www.railgoat <http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/>; .railfan.net/

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