Date   

Re: Re Ventilated Boxcars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill McCoywrote:
A friend of mine was a clerk for the RF&P in the tower at Potomac Yard. Droves of empty vent boxes came back south returing to the SAL and ACL at Richmond and were humped into the classification bowl. Jim noticed huge black clouds would come up when additional cars were humped into tracks with vent empties already in them.

A clerk was sent to investigate and discovered they were clouds of fruit flies feasting on the broken and bad mellons left in the cars. They would fly up with each hard coupling.
This fits exactly with what retired PFE people told me in interviews for the PFE book: the receivers of produce typically left all the spoiled or unsold produce right in the car, and even threw in the trash lying around on the platform, such as rotten fruit of a kind not even in the original cargo, along with dunnage, broken boxes, paper, etc. Obviously it was efficient trash service for them, as a switch crew would come soon and take it all away!
Cleaning returning empties was therefore an important job with reefers.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re Ventilated Boxcars

Bill McCoy
 

A friend of mine was a clerk for the RF&P in the tower at Potomac Yard. Droves of empty vent boxes came back south returing to the SAL and ACL at Richmond and were humped into the classification bowl. Jim noticed huge black clouds would come up when additional cars were humped into tracks with vent empties already in them.

A clerk was sent to investigate and discovered they were clouds of fruit flies feasting on the broken and bad mellons left in the cars. They would fly up with each hard coupling.

I hope no one at BLI reads this since this may be their next action toy.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL.
at


Re: Skid and Cover Cars

water.kresse@...
 

Remind me next week after Naperville.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elden J SAD Gatwood" <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2009 6:58:56 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RE: Skid and Cover Cars

Thanks, Al!  I have never seen a pic (or in person) one of those C&O cars,
only the later Evans cars.

Elden Gatwood
 

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
water.kresse@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 2:07 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Skid and Cover Cars

  



The C&O in the mid-50s converted regular C&O and PM 70-ton gondola cars into
these.  They reference the PRR skid system longitudinal shocks absorber
springs in their experiments.  They even made one with canvass covers.

Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu <mailto:ggg9y%40virginia.edu> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:37:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Skid and Cover Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
 
Folks;

As I dig up more and more info on the gons converted to skid & cover
service, I continue to be astounded at why we do not have a model of
these great cars, even in resin form.

As an aside to the great story about how these cars came into being,
these cars were very numerous and important cars on a variety of roads
that includes B&O, NKP, Erie, NYC, PRR, P&WV and others.  They ran all
over the country, and were seen any place there was a user of sheet
steel, like can, appliance and auto manufacturers.

What do we need to do to get some manufacturer interested?

Oh, and if any of you have any info on the cars as run on your
railroad, could you share it with us?

Lastly, it would also be interesting to hear what you know of other
cars on your RRs in other types of steel service, like gons with covers,
and such.

Lets get somebody hooked on doing them!

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Skid and Cover Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Al! I have never seen a pic (or in person) one of those C&O cars,
only the later Evans cars.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
water.kresse@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 2:07 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Skid and Cover Cars





The C&O in the mid-50s converted regular C&O and PM 70-ton gondola cars into
these. They reference the PRR skid system longitudinal shocks absorber
springs in their experiments. They even made one with canvass covers.

Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu <mailto:ggg9y%40virginia.edu> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:37:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Skid and Cover Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

As I dig up more and more info on the gons converted to skid & cover
service, I continue to be astounded at why we do not have a model of
these great cars, even in resin form.

As an aside to the great story about how these cars came into being,
these cars were very numerous and important cars on a variety of roads
that includes B&O, NKP, Erie, NYC, PRR, P&WV and others. They ran all
over the country, and were seen any place there was a user of sheet
steel, like can, appliance and auto manufacturers.

What do we need to do to get some manufacturer interested?

Oh, and if any of you have any info on the cars as run on your
railroad, could you share it with us?

Lastly, it would also be interesting to hear what you know of other
cars on your RRs in other types of steel service, like gons with covers,
and such.

Lets get somebody hooked on doing them!

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




New ART reefer available

asychis@...
 

Hi y'all,

The Amarillo Railroad Museum and the Missouri Pacific Historical Society
are pleased to announce that the third run of ART ice reefers produced for us
by InterMountain will be arriving in the next week. These are the 32000
series ART cars with the lap side horizontal rivet strip.

We've done the 24000 series in the ART herald only scheme, and the 32000
series with Preco fans in the classic ART three herald scheme. These runs
sold out quickly. The 33000 series represents original 24000 cars with
Equipco air circulating fans. These are also in the classic three herald scheme
that was used from 1950 to around 1958 when the colored heralds were
replaced by black outline heralds (probably our next run). However, the scheme
used on these cars lasted well into the 1960s era (albeit on somewhat
weathered cars). We will have six numbers available on assembled cars, and kits
with no numbers but a decal set included to number the cars as you prefer.
Note, that the kits can also represent the 32000 series with no
modification except the number. The Preco and Equipco fans used by ART were not
visible although some 32000 series cars with Preco fans had a circular stencil
noting that the cars were so equipped, or even a circular metal plate in
place of the stencil where cars such as PFE R40-25s had an actual fan pulley
cover.

For prices, and information on ordering, check out the Amarillo Railroad
Museum website (_www.amarillorailmuseum.com_
(http://www.amarillorailmuseum.com/) ). I expect the cars to be announced later this week on the website.
This is an advanced notice,and we'll need time to sort and inventory the
cars. MPHS and ARM members receive a 10% discount.

Thanks,

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum


Re: Missing Links-Resin

al_brown03
 

No ... the V-9 (SAL 28000-29249 and 89000-89899) and V-10 (SAL 79000-79999) ventilators were 36' double-sheathed wood cars. See Goolsby in Lines South, 1st/98, pp 22-25. Sunshine kit 21.23 models 40' steel express vents (SAL 700-754) converted from 1932 ARA box cars in class B-6. See Culotta's '32 ARA book, pp 194-205. The express vents weren't stencilled with a class of their own, and I don't know if they had one. Seaboard was less than manic about re-classifications.

The V-9 and V-10 were different enough from other roads' vents that they would be bears to kit-bash. Resin kits would be most welcome! :-)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, va661midlo@... wrote:


Bill,

The unofficial Sunshine Models list provided by Jim Hayes shows that kit no. 21.23, SAL Express Ventilator A.R.A 1932 boxcar is still available. Would this kit be either the V-9 or the V-10 that you were seeking?

Other resin kits of ventilator boxcars not mentioned in the current thread include the following from Westerfield (I was unable to access that website to determine current availability):

#6301, FEC as delivered 1920, fruit service
#6302, FEC as modernized, sugar service
#70001, ACL as delivered 1921 (Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)
#7002, ACL as built, 1929 lettering (Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)
#7004, ACL modernized, 1954 lettering (Atlantic Coast Line logo)
# 7005, ACL rebuilt circa 1936 (Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)
# 7006, ACL modernized1947 lettering (bottom door rollers)(Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)

Ken Montero



----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:19:16 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Missing Links-Resin






The talk of Ventilated cars makes me pine for the SAL vents in resin, hopefully both the V-9 and V-10, but even one would be nice.

Bill Welch




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/016Web.jpg
Steve, that is a UTL Van Dyke tank (note the heavy bottom sheet with
the stub center sills and draft gear pockets still attached) that had
been converted to a three compartment car, as attested by the smaller
end domes compared to the center dome.


Richard Hendrickson
Richard,

Want to hazard a guess if it's a 6, 8, or 10,000 gallon car? If it's a 6,000 gal, it would be an interesting conversion for the Blackstone Models frameless NG car that has supposedly been announced. From the look of the side bearings, it doesn't appear to be a 10,000 gal car; photos show those bolster / saddle castings to have differently shaped side bearing extensions.

By the way, when we were both talking to Bill McKown about doing Van Dyke cars in brass, did you ever get a set (2) of my photos of the one used as a storage tank at an oil jobber? I now can't seem to locate the originals, and would sure like to have scans, if you have the images.

Dennis


Re: Missing Links-Resin

Kenneth Montero
 

Bill,

The unofficial Sunshine Models list provided by Jim Hayes shows that kit no. 21.23, SAL Express Ventilator A.R.A 1932 boxcar is still available. Would this kit be either the V-9 or the V-10 that you were seeking?

Other resin kits of ventilator boxcars not mentioned in the current thread include the following from Westerfield (I was unable to access that website to determine current availability):

#6301, FEC as delivered 1920, fruit service
#6302, FEC as modernized, sugar service
#70001, ACL as delivered 1921 (Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)
#7002, ACL as built, 1929 lettering (Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)
#7004, ACL modernized, 1954 lettering (Atlantic Coast Line logo)
# 7005, ACL rebuilt circa 1936 (Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)
# 7006, ACL modernized1947 lettering (bottom door rollers)(Atlantic Coast Dispatch logo)

Ken Montero

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:19:16 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Missing Links-Resin






The talk of Ventilated cars makes me pine for the SAL vents in resin, hopefully both the V-9 and V-10, but even one would be nice.

Bill Welch




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

The majority of 3-dome tank car photos I have show two
rivet seams between each pair of domes where the interior
bulkheads are attached -- Yet a couple of them show (like
this car) only a single rivet seam. Wouldn't each of the
compartments require a separate bulkhead, instead of
sharing a single bulkhead? Is it because this car is a
rebuild?

Tim O'Connor

At 10/26/2009 10:10 PM Monday, you wrote:
<steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net> 10/26/09 8:05 PM >>>
I forgot you can't include attachments.
What is this
http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/016Web.jpg

Steve,

Given the reinforced bottom sheet that sticks out beyond the end, and
the hardware for the draft gear and truck bolsters, that looks like a
UTL "Van Dyke" (Type V). It was clearly a single dome car that has been
modified by the addition of 2 more domes. Very cool!

Regards
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Missing links

Tim O'Connor
 

Armand

Why not wish for CORRECTED kits of popular freight cars?

Like fix the execrable roofs on the Intermountain 1940 AAR
box cars? Or fix the doors on the Intermountain postwar
10'0" 12 panel box cars? Or fix the floors on both the
Red Caboose (original) and Intermountain (copy) 10'0" IH
box cars? (The former prewar, the latter postwar.) Or fix
the mediocre Atlas 11k LPG tank car? (Or maybe produce one
of the alternate size tank cars of this same type & era?)
Or corrected ends for the Intermountain postwar 10'0" IH
box car and R-40-25 reefer?

How about bulkhead or TOFC conversion kits for the P2K
AAR 53'6" flat car? Or the same for the Red Caboose SP
F-70-7 flat car? (These are good mini-kit ideas.)

Any more kits with obvious problems that might be much
more appealing if they got fixed?

Tim O'Connor

At 10/26/2009 09:02 PM Monday, you wrote:
Richard,My original post initiating this thread indicated a regional bias.I expected that,but even within regions there seems to be little or no consensus on the most needed .Reefers and tank cars on the one hand stock cars and hoppers on the other.However there seems to be a greater degree of interest with rebuilt single sheathed cars .The variety is staggering.Even flat kits would be difficult to produce and market by other than resin sources.Cross kitting,if I can use that term, would offer one solution.I am doubtful that any company would undertake such a project .Des Plaines' Viking roof has provided options otherwise not available.A variety of sides,ends and under frames would find a market.Fearing to offend some of our brethren,"Ready -to-Run" will not provide the variety that we seek.Armand Premo


Re: Missing links

Tim O'Connor
 

I keep seeing many calls for the AAR alt std offset hoppers.
We've been clamoring for those even longer than we've been
howling for at one version of the G31! :-)

Tim O'

At 10/26/2009 04:57 PM Monday, you wrote:
What did I get myself into? This thread has offered many suggestions,but
there seems to be so many differing ideas as to just what is needed that
coming to any degree of consensus seems next to impossible.Any
suggestions?Armand Premo


Re: Missing Links

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

An even better suggestion for Intermountain would be to toss
their awful Type 27 underframe and start over! :-) But IRC is
loathe to fix a model once it's in production.

Tim O'Connor

Someone offer photo-etched dome platforms for the ACF Type 27 8K
and decals for the cars with these platforms.
This is an outstanding suggestion and there have been rumors in
the past that IM was considering this. I really don't know why they
haven't done it, since it would get them into some colorful paint
schemes, always popular with the average modeler. And the rest of us
could REALLY use a good styrene ICC 104.

Tony Thompson


Re: Missing Links

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill Welch wrote

Someone offer photo-etched dome platforms for the ACF Type 27 8K and
decals for the cars with these platforms.
Sounds like a great idea for a mini-kit Bill! (Several,
if the platforms come in different styles.)

How about a mini-kit to build a replace underframe (with
open grid walks) for the ATLAS 11k hi pressure tank car?

Tim O'Connor


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 26, 2009, at 6:05 PM, <steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

I forgot you can't include attachments.
What is this
http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/016Web.jpg
Steve, that is a UTL Van Dyke tank (note the heavy bottom sheet with
the stub center sills and draft gear pockets still attached) that had
been converted to a three compartment car, as attested by the smaller
end domes compared to the center dome.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Bruce Smith
 

<steve.sandifer@sbcglobal.net> 10/26/09 8:05 PM >>>
I forgot you can't include attachments.
What is this
http://www.trainweb.org/jssand/016Web.jpg

Steve,

Given the reinforced bottom sheet that sticks out beyond the end, and
the hardware for the draft gear and truck bolsters, that looks like a
UTL "Van Dyke" (Type V). It was clearly a single dome car that has been
modified by the addition of 2 more domes. Very cool!

Regards
Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL


Central of Georgia Ventilated Cars are available!

Bill Welch
 

Paul Bob, Rich:

Thanks guys, you were totally correct. I called Allen Tuten and he is bringing a supply of both roof types. This announcment was posted while I was in the midst of moving. Allen is aware that the kits are not on the CGHS website and sounded quit frustrated by several issues regarding the site.

Bill Welch


Re: Missing links

Greg Martin
 

Yea, Mike you're right not the middle of nowhere but you can see it from
there...<grin> and a Big Yellow Train train traversing it... nowhere that
is...

Greg Martin

In a message dated 10/26/2009 7:28:45 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
brockm@brevard.net writes:

In the "middle of nowhere"? Wyoming? I beg your pardon, sir. If you are
referring to certain tracks in Southeastern Wyoming, you are referring to
railroad Mecca....hardly in the "middle of nowhere."

Mike Brock


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Rod Miller
 

I'll look forward to that issue even more than usual!

Thank you Richard.

Rod

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

On Oct 26, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Rod Miller wrote:
Directly behind the loco are at least two (the center two) wine tank
cars. It isn't possible to see if the first car has additional
domes. I suspect all four are a block of wine cars.
There were single-dome wine cars as well as multiple-dome cars.

If someone knows where I can find out more about wine transport by
rail (beyond Jim Lancaster's Chateau
Martin site and what has been discussed here previously), I'd
appreciate them letting me know.
Richard Hendrickson may want to chime in here--because I
know he's preparing to give a clinic at Naperville ENTIRELY about wine
tank cars, and a written version of it will be published in due course.
Correct. My clinic on wine tank cars has more than fifty photos of such cars. In fact, the opening photo is the one Rod cites of the SP yard at Fresno, where I count about forty wine tank cars in that one view. After I present the clinic at Naperville and then again at Cocoa Beach, all of the photos and an expanded version of the text in the handout will go to Ed and Pat at RPC for a future edition of Railway Prototype Cyclopedia.
Richard Hendrickson
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Help needed - ATSF stock car paint scheme

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 26, 2009, at 10:33 AM, peteraue wrote:

I am currently building a bunch of ATSF stock cars from
Westerfield, Sunshine and InterMountain kits as they would have
looked in 1950. I wonder about the color of the roof. Normal ATSF
freight car roof color 1931-1951 was Anti-Slip Black however
Richard Hendrickson wrote in his Santa Fe Painting & Lettering
Guide: "The available evidence indicates that this compound (Anti-
Slip Black) was inconsistently applied to stock cars, some of which
had brown roofs!"
The color photo of the Sk-3 on the front cover of Ellington, Berry
and Marten's Stock Car Book shows a brown roof and galvanized
running boards so this was definitely the original paint scheme
when the car was rebuilt in 1947. I found no clear evidence of any
black roofs when I looked through the black & white pictures in the
above book, though I realize that this is a very questionable
judgement. I'd hate to paint the cars wrong so I would greatly
appreciate advise about the roof color of the following stock car
classes in 1950:
SK-L/N/P/Q/R/S/T/U/Z Sk-2 and Sk-3
I can validate what has been said by Andy and others who responded on
this subject. I have in the neighborhood of 300 photos of Santa Fe
stock cars dating from the teens through the 1960s, and of those
there are exactly three b/w photos from the 1940s/'50s where I'm
pretty sure the roofs were black. The color shots I have all date
from the '60s, and they show no black roofs. My best guess is that
one or two shops may have applied black roof paint when repainting
cars in the 1940s, but that it was certainly far from common practice.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Wine Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Oct 26, 2009, at 5:40 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Rod Miller wrote:
Directly behind the loco are at least two (the center two) wine tank
cars. It isn't possible to see if the first car has additional
domes. I suspect all four are a block of wine cars.
There were single-dome wine cars as well as multiple-dome
cars.

If someone knows where I can find out more about wine transport by
rail (beyond Jim Lancaster's Chateau
Martin site and what has been discussed here previously), I'd
appreciate them letting me know.
Richard Hendrickson may want to chime in here--because I
know he's preparing to give a clinic at Naperville ENTIRELY about wine
tank cars, and a written version of it will be published in due
course.
Correct. My clinic on wine tank cars has more than fifty photos of
such cars. In fact, the opening photo is the one Rod cites of the SP
yard at Fresno, where I count about forty wine tank cars in that one
view. After I present the clinic at Naperville and then again at
Cocoa Beach, all of the photos and an expanded version of the text in
the handout will go to Ed and Pat at RPC for a future edition of
Railway Prototype Cyclopedia.

Richard Hendrickson

95301 - 95320 of 181173