1. main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
   Date   
Re: Wanted

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Joe,

Have you tried eBay? Or your local train show? These things are fairly common, and can usually be had for a reasonable price.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

Joseph Lofland wrote:
Dear List

I am looking for an HO Proto 2000 50 ft. double door box car , no end doors
non auto car.

Does anyone have one they are willing to part with?

Please contact me off list.

Joe Lofland
jjlofland@gmail.com
&#92;
Wanted

Joseph Lofland
 

Dear List

I am looking for an HO Proto 2000 50 ft. double door box car , no end doors
non auto car.

Does anyone have one they are willing to part with?

Please contact me off list.

Joe Lofland
jjlofland@gmail.com
Re: Ventilated Box Cars

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Bill,

I'm surprised Tony hasn't taken you to task for this statement. I suspect that the Central Pacific/Southern Pacific was the largest operator of these cars. I haven't memorized the totals in Tony's SP boxcar book, but I am willing to bet their fleet was much larger than 2000. Of course, these were largely 19th century cars, but many were still going strong in the early years of the 20th.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

lnbill wrote:

The L&N, CofG, SAL and ACL were the largest owners of Vents with about 2000 per fleet at their peak while the N&W, Southern, C&O, and C&WC were much much smaller fleets of 100 to 400 approximately.
Bill Welch
Re: Ventilated Box Cars

water.kresse@...
 

The C&O ventilator fleet re-started with 1000 cars in the 1920-30s (C&O 86500-86999 and C&O 87000-87499).  they also ordered 50 reefers at the time.  The first series was better insulated in their floors and stayed around as VMs longer.  They also doubled as good cars to ship grain and corn in.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "lnbill" <fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:16:01 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Ventilated Box Cars

The L&N, CofG, SAL and ACL were the largest owners of Vents with about 2000 per fleet at their peak while the N&W, Southern, C&O, and C&WC were much much smaller fleets of 100 to 400 approximately.

Photos of them right behind the locomotive, whether steam or diesel, with a reefer block coupled behind them are fairly easy to find for ACL, SAL, Southern, CofG, etc. north bound.

Southern "white" land grant universities of the day, Clemson, Univ. of Florida, Univ. of Georgia, etc. hosted periodic "Short Courses" where advances in plant hybridizing for better shipping characteristics were shared plus how to load certain perishables to try to reduce damage and losses were discussed. For example, it was found that by loading the "Congo" variety perpendicular rather then length wise resulted in fewer losses. Tomatoes were a tricky vegetable to ship.

Bill Welch



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Skid and Cover Cars

water.kresse@...
 

The C&O in the mid-50s converted regular C&O and PM 70-ton gondola cars into these.  They reference the PRR skid system longitudinal shocks absorber springs in their experiments.  They even made one with canvass covers.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 11:37:20 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: Skid and Cover Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:
 
Folks;

As I dig up more and more info on the gons converted to skid & cover service,
I continue to be astounded at why we do not have a model of these great cars,
even in resin form.

As an aside to the great story about how these cars came into being, these
cars were very numerous and important cars on a variety of roads that
includes B&O, NKP, Erie, NYC, PRR, P&WV and others.  They ran all over the
country, and were seen any place there was a user of sheet steel, like can,
appliance and auto manufacturers.

What do we need to do to get some manufacturer interested?

Oh, and if any of you have any info on the cars as run on your railroad,
could you share it with us?

Lastly, it would also be interesting to hear what you know of other cars on
your RRs in other types of steel service, like gons with covers, and such.

Lets get somebody hooked on doing them!

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Help needed - ATSF stock car paint scheme

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Peter,

I've followed Richard's lead on this, and used Mineral Brown on all the Santa Fe stockcars I've done. I've never seen a color photo of an ATSF stockcar with a black roof either.

So long,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142
Wanted: CofG ventilater kit - contact Central of Georgia Historical Society

Bob McCarthy
 

Bill,
 
    As a member of the Central of Georgia Historical Society, I read about the society aving Jim King run a kit recently with the roof you mentioned.  Go to the Socities website and use it to contact them for the kits. 
 
Bob McCarthy
 
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

--- On Mon, 10/26/09, lnbill <fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com> wrote:


From: lnbill <fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Wanted: CofG ventilater kit
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 5:31 PM


 



Because the HO kit of the Central of Georgia ventilator had an Outside Metal Roof instead of the improved cars with the Hutchins like roof, I passed on buying one as I could not imagine how to create a Hutchins roof for the car. Now I have figured it out and the kits have disappeared. I am curious if anyones knows where there is a kit that needs a good home?

You can contact me offline at fgexbill@tampabay. rr.com

Bill Welch
CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon and related uses out of season

Bob McCarthy
 

Howdy!
 
     With all the discussion of Central of Georgia Ventilator cars moving melons, I thought it might be useful to relate some additional information on moving watermelons.
 
     The Central of Georgia before WWII had an extensive shipping lines sailing from SAVANNAH to NYC and BOSTON.  Many of the Centraal of Georgia Ventilator cars could be found at the SAVANNAH docks off loading onto these ships that carried both freight and people.
 
     One event underlining this shore to ship to shore traffic on the Central of Georgia was one of their liners running aground near MARTH'S VINEYARD.  To lighten the vessel, it's cargo of watermelons were thrown over the side and were found all along the LONG ISLAND Sound shore for weeks thereafter.
 
     The Central of Georgia tried to keep their produce shipments they originated under their tariff control for as long as possible to maximize their profits.  Obviously, when necessary their cars would run to other destinations as far as SAN FRANCISCO, but I find it unlkikely that southern produce would go to the west. 
 
    I actually saw them running through SUNNYVALE, CA in the early fifties toward SAN FRANCISCO with their wooden doors closed.  It would seem to me that they were carrying some form of dry lading that needed no ventilation.
 
      FGEX was created by the UP and SP to forward western produce east.  Both railroads had ventilator cars, but moved to iced reefers starting on 1906 to move perishable cargo to
the east coast.
 
Bob McCarthy
 
Modeling the Mighty Central of Georgia in Scale S

--- On Mon, 10/26/09, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:


From: Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, October 26, 2009, 12:56 PM


 




On Oct 26, 2009, at 6:03 AM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

Lee,

Those watermelon cars did get around. There are several photos in
Richard E. Prince's book RICHMOND-WASHINGTON FAST FREIGHT LINE of them
in RF&P trains. Apparently they came off the ACL or SAL at Richmond
and
then headed up the RF&P to Washington where they were handed off to
the
PRR. This suggests New York was the ultimate destination. In most
photos
they are near the head of the trains, but Prince and his friends were
aiming their cameras at the locomotives. There may be more back
further.
I'll add that there are numerous photos of these and similar cars in
the Philadelphia area, so not all the ones handed off to PRR went to
NYC <G>.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed. auburn.edu/ index.pl/ bruce_f._ smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>____ _________ ___&#92;__/__ _ ____________ _________ _________ __
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__ ||__||__| |__||__|| __||
|/__________ _________ _________ _&#92;|_|____ _________ _________ _________ _|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Ed! That is great info. You are the man!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 1:35 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!




On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

2) the G31 has an Equipco pump brake, unlike the G31B, which seems to
have had Universdals as-built (BTW, Dave has done us a favor, and
offers BOTH those types in his extra parts sprue);
Elden and Rich,
The G31, G31B, and G35 all used 3 types of lever-type hand brakes, including
Klasing as well as Universal and Equipco.

Larry Kline did some digging in PRR company files and recently provided me a
list of hand brakes used on one group of G31s. For the total series, 498 cars
had Universal hand brakes, 502 Equipco, and 500 Klasing. But to cover the
1,500 G31 cars in series 364800-366299 built in 1950, there are 18 separate
groups of car numbers. For starters,
364800-364974 came with Klasing, 364975-365122 had Equipco, 365123-365150 had
Universal, and so on.

For similar G35 cars there are 7 separate groups. I currently do not have
complete data for G31 cars built in 1948, G31A, or G31B. The RP CYC Vol. 19
article specifies the quantities of each hand brake used on the G31B cars,
but even the AC&F bill of materials didn't specify car number assignments for
the hand brakes used on the 2,000 G31B cars. The class car in the series
371950 had a Universal Pump-Handle hand brake, and it's believed that the
first 500 cars came with Universal. However, I'm hoping that Larry will be
able to locate data to define the hand brakes for all of these cars.

To supplement the article in RP CYC Vol. 19 about these cars, I'm in process
of compiling a list of PRR G31, G31A, G31B, and G35 hand brake car number
assignments that will be available in PDF format on the RP CYC web site. I
currently do not have all of the data for these cars, but will supply the
data when I have it. Larry has been kind to provide data he has located in
PRR company records thus far.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!

Ed Hawkins
 

On Oct 26, 2009, at 11:53 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

2) the G31 has an Equipco pump brake, unlike the G31B, which seems to
have
had Universdals as-built (BTW, Dave has done us a favor, and offers
BOTH
those types in his extra parts sprue);
Elden and Rich,
The G31, G31B, and G35 all used 3 types of lever-type hand brakes,
including Klasing as well as Universal and Equipco.

Larry Kline did some digging in PRR company files and recently provided
me a list of hand brakes used on one group of G31s. For the total
series, 498 cars had Universal hand brakes, 502 Equipco, and 500
Klasing. But to cover the 1,500 G31 cars in series 364800-366299 built
in 1950, there are 18 separate groups of car numbers. For starters,
364800-364974 came with Klasing, 364975-365122 had Equipco,
365123-365150 had Universal, and so on.

For similar G35 cars there are 7 separate groups. I currently do not
have complete data for G31 cars built in 1948, G31A, or G31B. The RP
CYC Vol. 19 article specifies the quantities of each hand brake used on
the G31B cars, but even the AC&F bill of materials didn't specify car
number assignments for the hand brakes used on the 2,000 G31B cars. The
class car in the series 371950 had a Universal Pump-Handle hand brake,
and it's believed that the first 500 cars came with Universal. However,
I'm hoping that Larry will be able to locate data to define the hand
brakes for all of these cars.

To supplement the article in RP CYC Vol. 19 about these cars, I'm in
process of compiling a list of PRR G31, G31A, G31B, and G35 hand brake
car number assignments that will be available in PDF format on the RP
CYC web site. I currently do not have all of the data for these cars,
but will supply the data when I have it. Larry has been kind to provide
data he has located in PRR company records thus far.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
Help needed - ATSF stock car paint scheme

peteraue
 

I am currently building a bunch of ATSF stock cars from Westerfield, Sunshine and InterMountain kits as they would have looked in 1950. I wonder about the color of the roof. Normal ATSF freight car roof color 1931-1951 was Anti-Slip Black however Richard Hendrickson wrote in his Santa Fe Painting & Lettering Guide: "The available evidence indicates that this compound (Anti-Slip Black) was inconsistently applied to stock cars, some of which had brown roofs!"
The color photo of the Sk-3 on the front cover of Ellington, Berry and Marten's Stock Car Book shows a brown roof and galvanized running boards so this was definitely the original paint scheme when the car was rebuilt in 1947. I found no clear evidence of any black roofs when I looked through the black & white pictures in the above book, though I realize that this is a very questionable judgement. I'd hate to paint the cars wrong so I would greatly appreciate advise about the roof color of the following stock car classes in 1950:
SK-L/N/P/Q/R/S/T/U/Z Sk-2 and Sk-3

Peter Aue
Wanted: CofG ventilater kit

Bill Welch
 

Because the HO kit of the Central of Georgia ventilator had an Outside Metal Roof instead of the improved cars with the Hutchins like roof, I passed on buying one as I could not imagine how to create a Hutchins roof for the car. Now I have figured it out and the kits have disappeared. I am curious if anyones knows where there is a kit that needs a good home?

You can contact me offline at fgexbill@tampabay.rr.com

Bill Welch
Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

S. Busch
 

Lee Gautreaux asks about wandering watermelon loaded CofG ventilated cars, and modeling watermelon loads. For whatever it may be worth, as a kid I remember climbing aboard an open, recently emptied "watermelon car" back in the early to mid 1950's. This was on the team track in Bellmore, on the south shore of New York's Long Island. Don't know if it was ACL or CofG though, but watermelons in cars from roads down South did get up North. I never tried modeling watermelons, but I remember the car floor was covered with straw, and there were pieces of damaged watermelons left aboard. In fact, I bought one of those same CofG cars myself, to load it with watermelons! I'm also very interested in ideas for the watermelons.

Regards,
Steve Busch
Duncan, SC
Missing Links-Resin

Bill Welch
 

The talk of Ventilated cars makes me pine for the SAL vents in resin, hopefully both the V-9 and V-10, but even one would be nice.

Bill Welch
Ventilated Box Cars

Bill Welch
 

The L&N, CofG, SAL and ACL were the largest owners of Vents with about 2000 per fleet at their peak while the N&W, Southern, C&O, and C&WC were much much smaller fleets of 100 to 400 approximately.

Photos of them right behind the locomotive, whether steam or diesel, with a reefer block coupled behind them are fairly easy to find for ACL, SAL, Southern, CofG, etc. north bound.

Southern "white" land grant universities of the day, Clemson, Univ. of Florida, Univ. of Georgia, etc. hosted periodic "Short Courses" where advances in plant hybridizing for better shipping characteristics were shared plus how to load certain perishables to try to reduce damage and losses were discussed. For example, it was found that by loading the "Congo" variety perpendicular rather then length wise resulted in fewer losses. Tomatoes were a tricky vegetable to ship.

Bill Welch
Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Rich;

As far as I can see, the G31 are almost identical to the later classes, but
for the steel floor; however, there are some little details that one also
could consider:

1) the tie-down clips are welded to the side sheet, like the G31A, unlike
the G31B where they are welded to the sides of the top angle;

2) the G31 has an Equipco pump brake, unlike the G31B, which seems to have
had Universdals as-built (BTW, Dave has done us a favor, and offers BOTH
those types in his extra parts sprue);

3) The G31 only has one "tack" board

You could also overlay .005" sheet over the wood floor, like I did on one of
the cars I haven't finished yet.

Let me know if you need a photo.

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
SUVCWORR@aol.com
Sent: Monday, October 26, 2009 12:05 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!




Elden,

As you have researched and published articles and presented clinics on these
cars, since the floor of the Tangent car is removable, would simply changing
the floor to steel convert these to a G31 or are there other differences I am
missing in the photos? The IH of the G31 is 1 3/8 inches higher but that is
almost imperceptible in HO and could be accounted for with the thinkness of
the replacement floor.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:04 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

Folks;

The G31's were painted just like the Tangent model, as-built. All initial
paint and lettering were identical, but for the builders' stencils, where
applied;

The "w" in a circle came later;

The G31 was PRR-built, the G31A was PS-built, and the G31B and G31D were
ACF-built, and the G31C and G31E were GenAm-built;

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Allen Rueter
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:41 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

Tim,
I misunderstood that the 1st G31s where built, by PRR shops, once I found
this table, it made things more clear.
( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31>;
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31>; > )

G31a where P-S?

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 5:49:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscale models.com/ prototypeimages/ PRR%20371950. jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.
Gene Green
------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: CG Ventilated Box Cars - Watermellon Service

golden1014
 

Gentlemen,

A kind reminder. Ventilated boxcars in this era were normally equipped with two doors on each side; one screen door and one solid door. For half the year or more, these cars were operated as a standard house car (using the solid door) and as such could makea an appearance anywhere in the U.S.

If you have a need for a CofGA, SAL or ACL box car (or other roads) on your layout, a ventilated box car is a realistic option.

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:

Chuck,

Sure, you might have found a CofG car in Clifton Forge, but keep in mind
that the C&O also had ventilators of their own.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

RUTLANDRS@... wrote:
Lee,
I have used painted Navy beans as watermelons in the past. From what
I've heard, the floor of a watermelon car was covered with a heavy layer of
straw then the melons were loaded into the car, supposedly with out further
straw.
A CofG car very well could have come into Clifton Forge.
Chuck Hladik
Rutland Railroad,
Virginia Division
Re: test

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!

SUVCWORR@...
 

Elden,

As you have researched and published articles and presented clinics on these cars, since the floor of the Tangent car is removable, would simply changing the floor to steel convert these to a G31 or are there other differences I am missing in the photos? The IH of the G31 is 1 3/8 inches higher but that is almost imperceptible in HO and could be accounted for with the thinkness of the replacement floor.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Oct 26, 2009 6:04 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded drop-end Gondola available now!!










Folks;

The G31's were painted just like the Tangent model, as-built. All initial
paint and lettering were identical, but for the builders' stencils, where
applied;

The "w" in a circle came later;

The G31 was PRR-built, the G31A was PS-built, and the G31B and G31D were
ACF-built, and the G31C and G31E were GenAm-built;

Elden Gatwood



-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Allen
Rueter
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2009 7:41 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!



Tim,
I misunderstood that the 1st G31s where built, by PRR shops, once I found
this table, it made things more clear.
( http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31
<http://prr.railfan.net/freight/classpage.html?class=G31>; )

G31a where P-S?

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, October 25, 2009 5:49:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tangent Scale Models: NEW HO ACF 70-ton welded
drop-end Gondola available now!!

?? It's right there on the web site.

http://tangentscale models.com/ prototypeimages/ PRR%20371950. jpg

I wonder what the initial paint scheme on the PRR gons looked like.
Allen Rueter
Me, too.
Gene Green





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: Skid and Cover Cars

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

As I dig up more and more info on the gons converted to skid & cover service,
I continue to be astounded at why we do not have a model of these great cars,
even in resin form.

As an aside to the great story about how these cars came into being, these
cars were very numerous and important cars on a variety of roads that
includes B&O, NKP, Erie, NYC, PRR, P&WV and others. They ran all over the
country, and were seen any place there was a user of sheet steel, like can,
appliance and auto manufacturers.

What do we need to do to get some manufacturer interested?

Oh, and if any of you have any info on the cars as run on your railroad,
could you share it with us?

Lastly, it would also be interesting to hear what you know of other cars on
your RRs in other types of steel service, like gons with covers, and such.

Lets get somebody hooked on doing them!

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links
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