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Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Tony Thompson
 

Don Valentine wrote:

The chief use of a Lidgerwood on a railroad was to pull a plow through a series of
open ended gondola type cars with side doors to place ballast or fill outside of the rails. I've never seen one except
in a bunch of photos I have and I've never heard of anyone modeling one. Does anyone have any photos of just
the LIdgerwood itself rather than the whole train with one included?

   Don, two comments. First, after about 1915, very few railroads used Lidgerwoods for plowing out side-door ballast cars. It was TERRIBLY hard on the cars. Second point, lots of railroads did use Lidgerwoods to pull locomotives (with cutters in place of brake shoes) for wheel tire contour truing. There are several pictures of the SP practice in Bob Church's steam books. I can send one if you like.

Tony Thompson
Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Bill Welch
 

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 03:39 PM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:
Perhaps the easient way to widen the Rapido roof so it overlaps an added fascia strip would be to cut it in half lengthwise with a razor saw and add a small strip of styrene in the middle where the running board should be able to hide it well and less work is required to have all looking "right". Don't you think this would work?
 
Cordially, Don Valentine
It probably would work, IF the roof can be removed easily.

Bill Welch
Re: Rapido diesel accuracy was RE: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

spsalso
 

Schyler,

I am glad I was able to clear up your error in making your assumption about SP&S people.  

I assure you, there are a goodly number of people, other than myself, that take the SP&S seriously, and advocate for it. 


Ed

Edward Sutorik






On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 01:45 PM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

What can I say?  My O(our) experience was different.

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: Rapido diesel accuracy was RE: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

 

 
Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Norm Buckhart
 

that’s not a problem - I will complete the sizing here - maybe half size or quarter size?


On Apr 13, 2020, at 1:49 PM, Kemal Mumcu via groups.io <kemal_mumcu@...> wrote:

The coupler sits a bit low. I need to add a shim but I will install short shank couplers first. The flat car's couplers are at the right height.

Colin Meikle<couplerheight.jpg>

Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Kemal Mumcu
 

The coupler sits a bit low. I need to add a shim but I will install short shank couplers first. The flat car's couplers are at the right height.

Colin Meikle
Re: Rapido diesel accuracy was RE: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Schuyler Larrabee
 

What can I say?  My O(our) experience was different.

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:55 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: Rapido diesel accuracy was RE: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

 

Schuyler,

But, you see, I DID get in touch with Rapido.  I sent information to both Gareth and Bill, and they responded.  I came up with numerous photos, including ones I bought just for the purpose.  I offered opinions--informed opinions.

I think I made it clear that I would do everything I could to ensure the SP&S models were accurate.  One could at least imply that to be the case, if one thought about the amount of time I put in doing research.  I never once blew them off.  I never ignored a question.  I always tried to back up my statements with evidence.

So.  It is NOT in part "because".

They had everything they needed.



Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

gary laakso
 

Did the reduction in height lower the couplers?  If so, how did you adjust the couplers?

 

Gary Laakso

Northwest of Mike Brock

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Kemal Mumcu via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 6:01 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

 

One thing about these Rapido cars that could be corrected is the incorrect ride height.  They ride high on the trucks.  This was the same problem with the NP cars.  I had to make a jig and sand down the excess bolster material to bring down the car to ride at the right height. 

A possible solution:  Make the cars with the correct bolster ride height and add a fitted washer to deliver the cars.  The toy train types will be happy and more discerning modelers can remove the washer to bring down the car to the right height. 

Colin Meikle

A video from the Pacific Great Eastern of a GN USRA being righted after a wreck.  From the mid-fifties.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdtnVk2M3YU&t=2s

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] boxcar roof mystery

Richard Townsend
 

What I remembered was B&O 370000-370099 class M-40 (later B-11), rebuilt from M-55c and M-55h.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Mon, Apr 13, 2020 1:12 pm
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] boxcar roof mystery

Yes, P&LE also.
 
Elden Gatwood
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] boxcar roof mystery
 
I seem to recall seeing some 40’ box cars that were stretched to 50’ using diagonal panels in the middle of the cars’ rectangular panels for the roof.


On Apr 13, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:


 Seems I recall the NKP had some auto cars that were built based on an earlier design, where it was found the new diagonal pressing interfered with the loaders, and so the cars were built with diagonal panels EXCEPT for two; those were the older recangular design to gibe the needed clearance.
 
    SP built some automobile cars with such a feature, doubtless the same reason.
 
Tony Thompson
 
 
 
Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

No boat needed, Ed,  There's another block with a single sheave so the cable can turn 90 degrees
to reach the Lidgerwood. Lord I'd love to have seen that operation first hand! But I think you've 
called the creane operator out correctluy. It appears he didn't use his outriggers and stabilizers.

My best, Don Valentine
Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] boxcar roof mystery

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Yes, P&LE also.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Monday, April 13, 2020 3:25 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] boxcar roof mystery

 

I seem to recall seeing some 40’ box cars that were stretched to 50’ using diagonal panels in the middle of the cars’ rectangular panels for the roof.



On Apr 13, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:



Dennis Storzek wrote:



 Seems I recall the NKP had some auto cars that were built based on an earlier design, where it was found the new diagonal pressing interfered with the loaders, and so the cars were built with diagonal panels EXCEPT for two; those were the older recangular design to gibe the needed clearance.

 

    SP built some automobile cars with such a feature, doubtless the same reason.

 

Tony Thompson

 

 

 
Re: boxcar roof mystery

Craig Wilson
 

That answers it ... thanks.  I was hoping you guys would chime in.  The project moves forward.  Craig Wilson
Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Dave Parker
 

Don:

The Rapido model is an RTR.  What you suggest might make some sense with a flat resin kit, but it's not necessary.  The Funaro kit has the fascia board, the Westerfield kit does not.  In both cases the drip-edge of the Murphy roof ends up being where it needs to be -- outboard of anything made of wood.

--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA
Re: Photo: Poultry Car

earlyrail
 

.  Re: Photo: Poultry Car
From: Tony Thompson
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 2020 10:48:46 PDT
Ray Breyer wrote:
I think that the change from C to X did happen right around 1926; I have photos of LPTC cars as late as 1925, and LPTX cars as early as 1928.

   Ray, I didn't mean to appear to contradict what you said about LPTC. I just didn't want readers to think that ALL changes into "X" reporting marks happened in 1926.

Tony Thompson


The "X" came as a recommendation in 1913.
Howard Garner
Re: Rapido diesel accuracy was RE: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

spsalso
 

Schuyler,

But, you see, I DID get in touch with Rapido.  I sent information to both Gareth and Bill, and they responded.  I came up with numerous photos, including ones I bought just for the purpose.  I offered opinions--informed opinions.

I think I made it clear that I would do everything I could to ensure the SP&S models were accurate.  One could at least imply that to be the case, if one thought about the amount of time I put in doing research.  I never once blew them off.  I never ignored a question.  I always tried to back up my statements with evidence.

So.  It is NOT in part "because".

They had everything they needed.



Ed

Edward Sutorik
Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    That's a neat bit of film Colin. The first thing I noticed were the untreated ties being used to repair the track.
The second was the Lidgerwood. That puzzled me completely until I saw the wreck crane lying on its side. That 
must have embarrassed someone more the the wreck itself! Then you see the cables moving through the double 
sheave and I knew why the Lidgewood was there. That company made some wonderful equipment for logging
(tower skidders), mining (cable dump cars and such) and railroads (big steam powered winches such as that 
shown mounted on flat cars). The chief use of a Lidgerwood on a railroad was to pull a plow through a series of
open ended gondola type cars with side doors to place ballast or fill outside of the rails. I've never seen one except
in a bunch of photos I have and I've never heard of anyone modeling one. Does anyone have any photos of just
the LIdgerwood itself rather than the whole train with one included?

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: Rapido diesel accuracy was RE: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

BRIAN PAUL EHNI
 

My pusher contacted Rapido about the MIA B units. They are coming, just delayed. 

Thanks!
Brian Ehni 
(Sent from my iPhone)

On Apr 13, 2020, at 1:27 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



I have to say that Rapido’s ERIE FA2s are very well detailed (with one minor exception).  That’s at least in part because I saw Bill Schneider at the Springfield (MA) train show while Rapido was still in the project development mode.  He was expecting to see me, and was quick to show me the hand painted ERIE shell he’s just finished the night before – there was still plenty of paint odor present.

 

I looked it over and said it looked fairly good except for the five errors I could see in about two minutes.  Bill was a bit crestfallen, but I told him I’d assemble a group of friends who could provide him the definitive answers to getting the paint and detailing correct.  I emailed three friends and between us we corrected the yellow paint configuration on the roof, the location of the horns, the proper placement of the firecracker antenna as well as some minor details about the wings either side of the nose.  That all took probably 30 emails and attached photos over the course of a week.  Bill and Rapido were very appreciative of the information and the finished units are excellent . . . inexplicably, there are two antennae on the roof.  An easy fix, simply pull the incorrect one out.

 

(I have wondered if I looked long enough at enough photos I’ve not encountered thus far, I >might< find another FA2 with an antenna in the other location . . . but I kind of doubt that.)

 

My point is that if the SP&S FA2s are inaccurate, it is at least in part because those modelers who wanted them did not take the initiative to get in touch with Rapido and help them to get them right.

 

But no FB2’s in the mail today . . .  ☹

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of spsalso via groups.io
Sent: Sunday, April 12, 2020 11:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

 

Randy,

Rapido does indeed release some road specific details for their locomotives.  Unfortunately, many of the details are incorrect.  The current SP&S FA-2 has at least 9 points of failure on that matter.

Athearn has been pretty good about accurate detailing, lately.  I bought a BNSF diesel that was properly detailed for an era a few years ahead of the one I wanted.  I will now modify it to the era of my choice.  And.  It was remarkably affordable.

These new models, while generic and consequently somewhat overpriced, will still be welcome.  


Ed

Edward Sutorik
Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

Hi Bill,
   
     Perhaps the easient way to widen the Rapido roof so it overlaps an added fascia strip would 
be to cut it in half lengthwise with a razor saw and add a small strip of styrene in the middle where 
the running board should be able to hide it well and less work is required to have all looking "right".
Don't you think this would work?

Cordially, Don Valentine
Re: boxcar roof mystery

Richard Townsend
 

I seem to recall seeing some 40’ box cars that were stretched to 50’ using diagonal panels in the middle of the cars’ rectangular panels for the roof.


On Apr 13, 2020, at 12:08 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:


Dennis Storzek wrote:

 Seems I recall the NKP had some auto cars that were built based on an earlier design, where it was found the new diagonal pressing interfered with the loaders, and so the cars were built with diagonal panels EXCEPT for two; those were the older recangular design to gibe the needed clearance.

    SP built some automobile cars with such a feature, doubtless the same reason.

Tony Thompson
Re: Question re: upcoming Rapido USRA DS box

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 08:39 AM, spsalso wrote:
Your statement about having to widen the model's roof to accept a fascia implies, to me, that that had to have been true for the prototype.  If so, it would seem to mean that the fascias were ONLY applied when new (wider) roofs were, also.

Or.  One could ask:  "Whatever would prompt someone to add a strip of wood at the top of a box car side?"
The better question might be, "Who thought it was a good idea to omit the fascia in the first place?" I ran into this issue years ago when designing the Accurail USRA car, and made the judgement that it would be more useful to more people to model the cars as most (all?) railroads modified them.

If one understands how these roofs were put together, it becomes obvious that the fascia could be added without replacing the entire roof. This illustration from the 1922 CBC shows a variety of eaves treatments, including one without the fascia as the USRA cars were built:



Since this is a flexible roof, all the sheets have a J bend that hooks into what is labeled the "hook strip." Just replacing the hook strip with a wider one would accommodate the addition of a fascia. I would suspect that replacing the hook strip when the car siding was renewed was common, as by the time all those nails were pulled it was likely pretty bent up. I'll leave it to your imagination how to model it, but note that there should be a step in the roof surface parallel to the eave no matter what.

Dennis Storzek
Re: boxcar roof mystery

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

 Seems I recall the NKP had some auto cars that were built based on an earlier design, where it was found the new diagonal pressing interfered with the loaders, and so the cars were built with diagonal panels EXCEPT for two; those were the older recangular design to gibe the needed clearance.

    SP built some automobile cars with such a feature, doubtless the same reason.

Tony Thompson
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