Date   
Re: AMB Wheels Masks

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

If you look at photos of mainline track in our timeframe, you'll see
that the rails are often oily black to the outside of the track, and
rusty on the inside. This was a result of oil sprayed off wheelsets.
And yes, this oil had leaked from plain bearing journal boxes.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "devansprr" <devans1@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@>
wrote:

Tim makes a most important point here, especially since the photos
on
the AMB website show the wheels in their jig painted a uniform rust
color. Okay for wheels in roller bearing trucks, but definitely NOT
okay on steam era freight cars with solid bearings. Oil leaking past
the primitive seals at the back of the journal boxes ran out onto
the
wheel faces, which distributed it all over the underside of the car
and, in stripes, up the ends of adjacent cars. The oil, of course,
collected grime, with the result that the wheel faces were a dirty
dark gray. Wheel backs and axles, on the other hand were a dirty
rust color. Though there is an abundance of photographic evidence
for this, I repeatedly see models of steam era freight cars at RPM
meets or in photos with rusty wheels, though I suppose that's better
than shiny metal wheels popped into the trucks just as they come out
of the box.


Richard Hendrickson
Richard & Tim,

Pardon the interuption - perhaps a little off-topic. Does this mean
that rails should be grimy on the outside surfaces, but rusty on the
sides facing each other? Stands to reason that oil running off the
face of the wheel ends up on the outside corner of the rail where it
would be squeezed over the outside corner. Not much of the oil would
make it to the inside edge. Ballast dust would quickly glom onto this
oil and kind of set it permanently.

Might the ties and ballast reflect a similar effect? More greasy/grimy
outboard of the rails, and more indicative of other materials on the
inside - e.g. brake shoe dust on down grades, sand on upgrades,
cinders everywhere else?

Good color photos of WWII track work (mainline, not yards) seem to be
rare. Many are below grade, pointed up towards equipment, and the
rails and ties are often in the shadows.

Stands to reason that the appearance of post-journal bearing, post
steam, and post passenger track could be quite different.

Dave Evans

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Spen Kellogg <spenkellogg@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:


Wait 'til you see my rocket launching car next Jan.


Mike,
Are you sure you have the background to design a rocket launching car? <VBG> Oh wait, we didn't have rocket launching cars during the STMFC time period. Sorry, I guess I'm off topic.

Spen Kellogg

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Bruce Smith
 

On Sat, February 7, 2009 8:15 am, A. Premo wrote:
Well,maybe not so obscure,but seeing an IC stock car,a Southern and
CBQ
hopper in northern New England left me scratching my head .Armand Premo
Armand,

The hoppers are a puzzle someone else might address, but coming up with a
plausible story for the stock car is relatively easy. Clearly, it came
from the west, most likely the Chicago area. I don't know how much
finished beef ended up being shipped for slaughter to New England from
Chicago but that is definitely one possibility. Large amounts certainly
traveled as far as New York. This car would simply have been an available
empty at the point of loading. Headed in the "wrong direction" according
to car service rules, but hey, they needed an empty (and we all know by
now that car service rules were often ignored at the local level)!
Another option would be the transfer of breeding cattle (most likely
dairy) from a location on the IC to the location in New England. After
all, it is doubtful that the IC had an empty Rutland car on hand to load
<VBG>.


Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 2/7/2009 1:20:11 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
thompson@... writes:

Chet French wrote:
A few cars that show on the "On Hand" reports during 1952 at Forrest
IL on the Wabash.

SDAE 7002 mty for brick loading (B-50-16) 1 of 3 cars.
This one is interesting because SD&AE only had three of these
cars. Talk about finding a tiny needly in your haystack--er, national
freight car fleet.

PMcKY 53144 mty HT
Hadn't the PMcKY been absorbed by P&LE more than ten years
earlier? But there are other examples of "P-Mickey" (as it's called)
cars keeping their old lettering for YEARS after it was officially
obsolete. That wasn't always true of absorbed railroads, of course.


Just happen to have an April 1952 ORER laying here on the desk. P&LE still
lists 3270 cars with PMcKY reporting marks. Of the 1500 original 53000 -
54499 number series 1470 remain lettered for PMcKY. This is the largest group
of cars remaining in these reporting marks. The break down by car type is 1
XM 36' boxcar, 1496 HT hoppers, 184 HM hoppers, 1586 GB gons

Rich Orr



**************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on
AOL Music.
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Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 2/7/2009 10:15:00 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
@smithbf writes:

On Sat, February 7, 2009 8:15 am, A. Premo wrote:
Well,maybe not so obscure,but seeing an IC stock car,a Southern and
CBQ
hopper in northern New England left me scratching my head .Armand Premo
Armand,

The hoppers are a puzzle someone else might address, but coming up with a
plausible story for the stock car is relatively easy. Clearly, it came
from the west, most likely the Chicago area. I don't know how much
finished beef ended up being shipped for slaughter to New England from
Chicago but that is definitely one possibility. Large amounts certainly
traveled as far as New York. This car would simply have been an available
empty at the point of loading. Headed in the "wrong direction" according
to car service rules, but hey, they needed an empty (and we all know by
now that car service rules were often ignored at the local level)!
Another option would be the transfer of breeding cattle (most likely
dairy) from a location on the IC to the location in New England. After
all, it is doubtful that the IC had an empty Rutland car on hand to load
<VBG>.


There are a number of make-up of trains showing PRR livestock trains (FW-8
and BNY-16) handing off loaded livestock cars to NH for delivery. Without
waybills the ultimate delivery point is unknown but at least these documents
potentially account for an IC car being in New England.

Rich Orr
**************Who's never won? Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on
AOL Music.
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?ncid=emlcntusmusi00000003)

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

armprem
 

Well,maybe not so obscure,but seeing an IC stock car,a Southern and CBQ hopper in northern New England left me scratching my head .Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Duckworth" <trduck@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2009 6:58 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"


Tom, back when I was experimenting with computer generated
switchlists, one day the computer consigned four SFRD reefers
to a destination on a branchline that only occasionally got
one reefer at a time out of a mix of 6 or so non-hopper cars.
One of my former bosses on the Mopac had been an agent in western
Kansas in the 1950's. We were talking about ART reefers one day and I
asked if he'd seen them in service in any of the agencies he worked.
One winter an ART car was spotted at the freight dock and was loaded
with gallons of house paint from a firm in Kansas City consigned to a
local hardware store. He remembered it took him a couple of days to
unload the car into the freight room of the depot as he was working by
himself. Since oil paint doesn't freeze the Mopac had used the ART car
as a substitute for a normal boxcar during the off season.



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Re: AMB Wheels Masks - oil on rail

B.T. Charles
 

Dave, et al,

in my experience working with cars equipped with with solid bearings*,
oil spots will develop in patterned ways. While sitting spots of oil
will pool or show up as "bell-curve" stains on the web and foot of the
rail. On curves the outside of the high side rail and the inside of
the lower rail will show traces of oil, generally along the foot and
lower web. Track speed will also dictate as to how much oil will be
seen. (*friction bearing to us olde tyme railroaders...)

Similar to modeling faint traces of sand on steep hills, or piles of
sand in stations and engine terminals, the oil stains will add to a
modeling scene. Now if I could just apply my advice to my pike...

Hope this helps!

Romi Romano

"devansprr" <devans1@...> wrote:

Pardon the interuption - perhaps a little off-topic. Does this mean
that rails should be grimy on the outside surfaces, but rusty on the
sides facing each other? Stands to reason that oil running off the
face of the wheel ends up on the outside corner of the rail where it
would be squeezed over the outside corner. Not much of the oil would
make it to the inside edge. Ballast dust would quickly glom onto this
oil and kind of set it permanently.

Might the ties and ballast reflect a similar effect? More greasy/grimy
outboard of the rails, and more indicative of other materials on the
inside - e.g. brake shoe dust on down grades, sand on upgrades,
cinders everywhere else?

Good color photos of WWII track work (mainline, not yards) seem to be
rare. Many are below grade, pointed up towards equipment, and the
rails and ties are often in the shadows.

Stands to reason that the appearance of post-journal bearing, post
steam, and post passenger track could be quite different.

Dave Evans

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Charlie Duckworth <trduck@...>
 

Tom, back when I was experimenting with computer generated
switchlists, one day the computer consigned four SFRD reefers
to a destination on a branchline that only occasionally got
one reefer at a time out of a mix of 6 or so non-hopper cars.
One of my former bosses on the Mopac had been an agent in western
Kansas in the 1950's. We were talking about ART reefers one day and I
asked if he'd seen them in service in any of the agencies he worked.
One winter an ART car was spotted at the freight dock and was loaded
with gallons of house paint from a firm in Kansas City consigned to a
local hardware store. He remembered it took him a couple of days to
unload the car into the freight room of the depot as he was working by
himself. Since oil paint doesn't freeze the Mopac had used the ART car
as a substitute for a normal boxcar during the off season.

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Random is exactly that -- really cool stuff happens now and then, and it's memorable, even if it never happens again. The car-card/waybill ops at the club are never as much fun as that, because of a rigid adherence to repetition of supposedly 'typical' stuff.
Quite true, Tim, about how car card systems often work--but there are a number of ways to introduce random or quasi-random events, even without computers. For some years I've been describing one I used to use, when I give my operation clinic.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
Kinda like #6, the UP Fast Mail seen in Nebraska in 1957 with the last three cars being Pullmans. One Pullman [ Loyola ], one C&NW [ Chippewa ] and B&O [ Unionville ]. B&O? The Pullmans were being deadheaded east which is fine...but what was the B&O car doing in WY or UT or points west in '57? B&O may have been part of transcontinental service at one time but not with UP that I'm aware of.
Probably in pool service. SP occasionally hosted B&O, PRR and other cars on loan, to substitute for cars in the shop. Remember, the railroads had taken over ownership of the cars from Pullman, but Pullman still conducted operations on most roads.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Waiating for moderator - Re: Re: AMB Wheels Masks

Ned Carey <nedspam@...>
 

From: Robert Klostermann
Ned, Your folder is empty. Can you upload them again.
Bob,
Uploaded photos must be approved before they show up. I don't know how long that takes.

Ned

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tom Madden writes:

"I understand Richard's point, and when I'm deeply involved in a
serious operating session, anachronisms are a distraction. The cars
cease being models and become objects that I'm trying to move from
here to there, and a pickle car in a grain train just doesn't belong.
But when I'm _not_ operating, it's the unusual that makes the scene
visually interesting. When I walk into Mike's layout (and you _do_
have to walk into it), I look for the unusual. Not kitschy unusual
(stegosaurs or nudists), but "hmmmm.." unusual. Like that N&W hopper.
Or a blue B&M boxcar, far from home, in a lowly train of company
service cars."

Kinda like #6, the UP Fast Mail seen in Nebraska in 1957 with the last three cars being Pullmans. One Pullman [ Loyola ], one C&NW [ Chippewa ] and B&O [ Unionville ]. B&O? The Pullmans were being deadheaded east which is fine...but what was the B&O car doing in WY or UT or points west in '57? B&O may have been part of transcontinental service at one time but not with UP that I'm aware of.

Wait 'til you see my rocket launching car next Jan.

Mike Brock

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom, back when I was experimenting with computer generated
switchlists, one day the computer consigned four SFRD reefers
to a destination on a branchline that only occasionally got
one reefer at a time out of a mix of 6 or so non-hopper cars.

The funny thing is, without changing a thing, that particular
consignment never repeated itself in HUNDREDS of dry runs of
the software.

Random is exactly that -- really cool stuff happens now and
then, and it's memorable, even if it never happens again. The
car-card/waybill ops at the club are never as much fun as that,
because of a rigid adherence to repetition of supposedly
'typical' stuff.

Tim O'Connor

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
....Odd-ball cars did turn up occasionally on main line trunk
railroads, so there's nothing wrong with modeling them if you
don't overdo it. But it is very easy to overdo it, and the
temptation to overdo it seems almost irresistible to some modelers
who are fascinated by the obscure.
Not the obscure - just the unusual. And "unusual" can be a very
ordinary car completely out of context. Like Mike's N&W hopper on
Sherman Hill. It catches your eye. I just went through some of my old
slides and came upon three taken in sequence from the Sacramento
depot platform in the Fall of 1959. Eastbound SP freight of
indeterminate length led by a trio of notch-nose Alco something-or-
other diesels in the 3800 series. With one exception all the cars
visible in the photos are company service cars, mostly gons,
including a UP ballast hopper and two SP tanks. The exception is a
bright blue 50' B&M boxcar just ahead of the caboose. First photo
shows the engines, second shows the two SP tanks (the second & third
cars behind the diesels, with the UP hopper immediately following),
and the third shows the B&M boxcar. Ahead of the B&M car stretches a
long string of dirty red GS gondolas which I remember paying no
attention to once I spotted the blue car approaching in the distance.
I was young, operating on an enlisted man's wages, and film (plus
developing) was relatively costly. So I rationed my film and shot the
unusual, the things that caught my eye. I suspect I wasn't alone in
this.

AAR box car sheathing/sill attachment point

Earl Tuson
 

While looking into 12 panel AAR box cars, I began to take notice of a variation in the method by which some AAR box cars had their sheathing attached to their side sills. The normal AAR design had the exterior sheathing riveted near the top of the angle side sill. However, photos of the ATSF, GN, and SP&S 12 panel cars show that the sheathing on those cars was riveted close to the bottom edge of the sill. Far less of the angle shows, no additional underframe rivets can be seen below the sheathing, and the line of rivets is in line with the rivets used to fasten the top of the poling pocket.

Some additional study of AAR box car photos shows that ATSF Bx-26, Bx-27, Bx-34, Bx-37, Bx-43, Bx-44, and Fe-24 cars, in addition to all of the 12 panel cars the road had, all had the low side sheet attachment. So did the EJ&E 60400-60699 (ACF 1941,) IC 28340 (PS 1941,) ITC 6300-6499 (ACF 1944,) many, if not all, 10'6" IH Canadian AAR box cars, and NKP 5000-5249, 5250-5499, and 7000-7299. I highly suspect this is not an exhaustive list.

Am I just pointing out the obvious here, or has this design variation been overlooked by historians and modelers?

It is proving to make pattern making for S scale 12 panel cars a bit more difficult, that is for sure.

Earl Tuson

Re: AMB Wheels Masks

Robert Klostermann <bboots@...>
 

Ned,
Your folder is empty. Can you upload them again.
Bob

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ned Carey" <nedspam@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2009 4:30 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: AMB Wheels Masks


I just uploaded two photos of my own home made wheel painting fixture. It may be a while before one of our moderators approve them but they will be in a file named Ned Carey wheel paint tool. The tool has a hinged surface that opens up to install the wheelsets.

With mine I find I can easily paint the inner surfaces a rusty color and the outer surfaces a more grimy black color. The hardest part is cleaning the axel tips off after painting.

From having used several versions of my own tools I suspect the modelers choice tool will not be as easy to use as the AMB version.

Ned Carey




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NORWEST KITS & CASTINGS....PROMODELBUILDERS

Mansell Peter Hambly
 

February 15th is the last day that Norwest Kits & CastingS will be
available. See http://www.promodelbuilders.com/norwest/index.htm

Mansell Peter Hambly
COQUITLAM, B.C.

Re: AMB Wheels Masks

David North <davenorth@...>
 

These are neat. I fabricated some wheel masks out of styrene and PC board
spacers.

To mask the axle ends, I made caps out of shrink wrap tubing, pinching the
outer end with a pair of flat nose pliers.

They are reusable and quick to fit.

Obviously there are different caps for each brand of wheel.

Cheers

Dave

Re: AMB Wheels Masks

W. Lindsay Smith <wlindsays2000@...>
 

I use a drop of Micro Mask liquid on the axle ends
Lindsay Smith
--- In STMFC@..., "Ned Carey" <nedspam@...> wrote:

I just uploaded two photos of my own home made wheel painting
SNIP
The hardest part is cleaning the axel tips off after painting.
SNIP> Ned Carey
SNIP

Re: AMB Wheels Masks

Jack Burgess
 

A couple of years ago, I built a wheelset holder similar to the Modelers
Choice holder but found it difficult to get all of the wheelsets into it
without others falling out. I therefore built one from my own design in
later 2007 or so and an article on it was published in the September 2008
RMC. While it holds only a single wheelset at a time, it does have a way to
cover the axle bearing surfaces. While mine is built from brass shapes, the
AMB model is Plexiglas and holds 4 wheelsets but otherwise they are very
similar designs. The last sentence of my article reads "Maybe a manufacturer
will see the benefits of such a holder and release a commercial version in
the near future that is even better!"

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Tom Madden" <tgmadden@...> wrote:


Not the obscure - just the unusual. And "unusual" can be a very
ordinary car completely out of context. Like Mike's N&W hopper on
Sherman Hill. It catches your eye. I just went through some of my old
slides and came upon three taken in sequence from the Sacramento
depot platform in the Fall of 1959. Eastbound SP freight of
indeterminate length led by a trio of notch-nose Alco something-or-
other diesels in the 3800 series. With one exception all the cars
visible in the photos are company service cars, mostly gons,
including a UP ballast hopper and two SP tanks. The exception is a
bright blue 50' B&M boxcar just ahead of the caboose. First photo
shows the engines, second shows the two SP tanks (the second & third
cars behind the diesels, with the UP hopper immediately following),
and the third shows the B&M boxcar. Ahead of the B&M car stretches a
long string of dirty red GS gondolas which I remember paying no
attention to once I spotted the blue car approaching in the distance.
I was young, operating on an enlisted man's wages, and film (plus
developing) was relatively costly. So I rationed my film and shot the
unusual, the things that caught my eye. I suspect I wasn't alone in
this.


Tom Madden
Tom,

Good story, and one wonders why the blue B&M was in such a consist,
but your rational for taking the picture illustrates why so many
photographs are suspect for doing population studies. Wide yard shots
and distant train shots are good, but pictures of a few cars in the
train - why did the photographer take a picture at THAT instant....

Another reason why Delano's yard photos are so valuable (compared to
others).

Dave Evans