Date   
Howard Ameling's New Email Address

Larry Kline
 

I forgot that Yahoo doesn't show the complete email address on the
web. The full address is :

nkp2 (at) verizon (dot) net

Begin forwarded message:

From: Larry Kline <lndkline@...>
Date: March 31, 2009 9:10:20 AM EDT
To: STMFC list <STMFC@...>
Subject: Howard Ameling's New Email Address

From the NKP Yahoo group
Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
-------------------------------------------
Posted by: "John Fryar" nkphts@... nkp2503
Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:17 pm (PDT)

Howard Ameling has asked me to let you know that his new email
address is:

nkp2@...

Thanks!

John Fryar

Howard Ameling's New Email Address

Larry Kline
 

From the NKP Yahoo group
Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA
-------------------------------------------
Posted by: "John Fryar" nkphts@... nkp2503
Sat Mar 28, 2009 4:17 pm (PDT)

Howard Ameling has asked me to let you know that his new email
address is:

nkp2@...

Thanks!

John Fryar

Re: Enterprise hopper door hardware

Charles Hladik
 

Ned,
I think the old Grandt line narrow gauge flat details might work for the
"stakes" you want.
Chuck Hladik


In a message dated 3/31/2009 12:41:35 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
nedspam@... writes:




Our (CPD13) division will be going on a tour to see Don Tichy and his
factory on April 25.

Victor,

Perhaps you could ask him to do side stakes. If we had side stakes with
rivets it would make building and customizing hoppers and gons much easier. It
seems like an easy thing to tool (although admittedly sales would be modest at
best)

Ned Carey
----- Original Message -----
From: Victor Bitleris
To: _stmfc@... (mailto:stmfc@...)
Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 2009 11:56 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Enterprise hopper door hardware

Our (CPD13) division will be going on a tour to see Don Tichy and his
factory on April 25. He will also open up his "store" to us for special shopping. I
can certainly ask him if he would consider selling the USRA Hopper Details.
If there is a market for it, I am sure he will be glad to sell them. He sells
the frames and details for the tank cars.
Regards Vic Bitleris
Raleigh, NC

To: _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...)
From: _schuyler.larrabee@... (mailto:schuyler.larrabee@...)
Date: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 23:29:53 -0400
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Enterprise hopper door hardware

Tichy makes very nice Enterprise hardware, but I don't know
if he'll sell you just the detail sprue from the USRA hopper
car kit.
Tim O'Connor
Most likely. Don's a very cooperative guy. Certainly can't hurt to enquire.

SGL

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Re: Freight cars equipped with skids & covers

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Elden,

Are you talking about covered gondolas here? If so, between 1957 and 1964 the WP rebuilt 24 of its 6501-class 53' mill gondolas with removable roofs, and also two of its 9001-class 65' mill gons. I don't know how many were rebuilt within our STMFC time frame (I lack a complete run of ORERs for this period), and since I'm at work now I can't check on what these cars were renumbered to. I can check when I get back from the Coast in mid-April if needed. The cars were used between Geneva, Utah, and Pittsburg (note: no "H"), California, in coil service for U.S. Steel. Information on this operation can be found on my web site at: http://people.virginia.edu/~ggg9y/steel.html and http://people.virginia.edu/~ggg9y/gon.html . Color photos and other data may be found in Jim Eager's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR GUIDE TO PASSENGER AND FREIGHT EQUIPMENT from Morning Sun.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

Folks;

What railroads do you know of that had cars equipped with skids & covers for
coiled steel sheet shipment? I am most interested in cars equipped with
skids & covers, not purpose-built "coil cars".
I do know that NKP, B&O, Erie, P&WV, URR, DT&I, and PRR had their own
versions, and would be very interested in anyone knew of sources for photos
of these cars, also.

Do you know what dates these might have been put on a specific road? I
already know some of the history of their development; I am trying to flesh
out the magnitude of this service being offered by the RRs, and the details
on each car.

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood



Re: Freight cars equipped with skids & covers

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;



What railroads do you know of that had cars equipped with skids & covers for
coiled steel sheet shipment? I am most interested in cars equipped with
skids & covers, not purpose-built "coil cars".



I do know that NKP, B&O, Erie, P&WV, URR, DT&I, and PRR had their own
versions, and would be very interested in anyone knew of sources for photos
of these cars, also.



Do you know what dates these might have been put on a specific road? I
already know some of the history of their development; I am trying to flesh
out the magnitude of this service being offered by the RRs, and the details
on each car.



Thanks!



Elden Gatwood





._,___

Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

That also makes sense. I used to see DRGW drop-bottom (maybe former
drop-bottom) gons in the area back in the day.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 8:16 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59




No, the LG means Loaded Gondola. CK must be a designation
for some place in Chicago, where CB&Q interchanged to IHB.

At 3/30/2009 06:53 PM Monday, you wrote:
That makes sense Tim but Argentine ore was shipped years ago. The loads show
ore LG/CK, would this mean large chunks?
Those hoppers would have been about half full unless they were actual ore
cars.

Mark

Re: Enterprise hopper door hardware

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
And I forgot to add: the T&NO (SP) cars rode on National Type B trucks. Available from Proto 2000.
And in the steam era hardly ever left central Texas. But we can assume Bill Baker is modeling T&NO.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Enterprise hopper door hardware

Tim O'Connor
 

And I forgot to add: the T&NO (SP) cars rode on National Type B
trucks. Available from Proto 2000.

Tim O'

An even better starting point is Accurail's version of this
same prototype.
Tim O'Connor
Thanks Tim. Go to:

http://accurail.com/accurail/parts.htm

Right most column, most of the way down the page, 55-Ton USRA Hopper Detail Set, your choice of black, oxide, or mineral red. $2.98 ea. plus postage.

Each set gives you one pair of the winding / ratchet mechanisms that mount on the slope sheet, also two door beams. Unfortunately, you will need two sets per car, as the winding mechanisms are lefts and rights, and are not interchangeable. You also might get a nifty little Miner drop handle hand brake; it's still in the tool, but we stopped QCing them when we decided to mold them on the car body. What's missing are the shafts and levers that mount between the center sills, as we don't supply these almost hidden parts with the kit.

Dennis

Re: Enterprise hopper door hardware

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

An even better starting point is Accurail's version of this
same prototype.

Tim O'Connor
Thanks Tim. Go to:

http://accurail.com/accurail/parts.htm

Right most column, most of the way down the page, 55-Ton USRA Hopper Detail Set, your choice of black, oxide, or mineral red. $2.98 ea. plus postage.

Each set gives you one pair of the winding / ratchet mechanisms that mount on the slope sheet, also two door beams. Unfortunately, you will need two sets per car, as the winding mechanisms are lefts and rights, and are not interchangeable. You also might get a nifty little Miner drop handle hand brake; it's still in the tool, but we stopped QCing them when we decided to mold them on the car body. What's missing are the shafts and levers that mount between the center sills, as we don't supply these almost hidden parts with the kit.

Dennis

Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Mark
 

Thanks for the clarification! Looks like the D&RG cars might be gons.

Mark

--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 8:15 PM














No, the LG means Loaded Gondola. CK must be a designation

for some place in Chicago, where CB&Q interchanged to IHB.



At 3/30/2009 06:53 PM Monday, you wrote:

That makes sense Tim but Argentine ore was shipped years ago. The loads show ore LG/CK, would this mean large chunks?
Those hoppers would have been about half full unless they were actual ore cars.
Mark

Re: Enterprise hopper door hardware

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tichy makes very nice Enterprise hardware, but I don't know
if he'll sell you just the detail sprue from the USRA hopper
car kit.

Tim O'Connor
Most likely. Don's a very cooperative guy. Certainly can't hurt to enquire.

SGL





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Re: Enterprise hopper door hardware

Tim O'Connor
 

Tichy makes very nice Enterprise hardware, but I don't know
if he'll sell you just the detail sprue from the USRA hopper
car kit.

An even better starting point is Accurail's version of this
same prototype.

Tim O'Connor

At 3/30/2009 11:01 PM Monday, you wrote:
I am making modifications to a 6-pack of the old Stewart 70-ton triple hopper car kits as I build them using the mid-90's RMJ and MM articles, by Richard Hendrickson and Stafford Swain respectively as guides. I am not going as far as replacing ladders and grab irons as the car bodies are factory painted for T&NO H-70-5 stand-ins. However I am making other modifications consistent with "layout-quality cars". I note that what door operating hardware is present relates to Wine hardware as opposed to the Enterprise hardware used by SP/T&NO. I plan on using 1/16 inch Plastruct channel for the hopper door Enterprise-style cross-beams but I have not found any detail parts to represent the handle/locks. I know I cannot be on the cutting-edge here! What have others done to represent Enterprise hardware? My sincere thanks for any suggestions!

Bill Baker
Port Orchard, WA

Enterprise hopper door hardware

pengrapass <bill_baker@...>
 

I am making modifications to a 6-pack of the old Stewart 70-ton triple hopper car kits as I build them using the mid-90's RMJ and MM articles, by Richard Hendrickson and Stafford Swain respectively as guides. I am not going as far as replacing ladders and grab irons as the car bodies are factory painted for T&NO H-70-5 stand-ins. However I am making other modifications consistent with "layout-quality cars". I note that what door operating hardware is present relates to Wine hardware as opposed to the Enterprise hardware used by SP/T&NO. I plan on using 1/16 inch Plastruct channel for the hopper door Enterprise-style cross-beams but I have not found any detail parts to represent the handle/locks. I know I cannot be on the cutting-edge here! What have others done to represent Enterprise hardware? My sincere thanks for any suggestions!

Bill Baker
Port Orchard, WA

Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Allen Rueter
 

Tim,
CK is Congress Park, CB&Q

--
Allen Rueter
StLouis MO




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 7:15:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59



No, the LG means Loaded Gondola. CK must be a designation
for some place in Chicago, where CB&Q interchanged to IHB.

At 3/30/2009 06:53 PM Monday, you wrote:
That makes sense Tim but Argentine ore was shipped years ago. The loads show ore LG/CK, would this mean large chunks?
Those hoppers would have been about half full unless they were actual ore cars.

Mark

Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Tim O'Connor
 

No, the LG means Loaded Gondola. CK must be a designation
for some place in Chicago, where CB&Q interchanged to IHB.

At 3/30/2009 06:53 PM Monday, you wrote:
That makes sense Tim but Argentine ore was shipped years ago. The loads show ore LG/CK, would this mean large chunks?
Those hoppers would have been about half full unless they were actual ore cars.

Mark

Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Mark
 

That makes sense Tim but Argentine ore was shipped years ago. The loads show ore LG/CK, would this mean large chunks?
Those hoppers would have been about half full unless they were actual ore cars.

Mark

--- On Mon, 3/30/09, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, March 30, 2009, 2:01 PM












Mark



Makes sense, but if it's not economical to ship iron ore

500 miles by rail to Chicago from Minnesota, why would it

be to ship it 1500 miles from Utah?



Tim O'Connor



At 3/30/2009 01:03 PM Monday, you wrote:

Tim, my bet would be iron ore. Several blast furnaces in that area used this.
Sincerely, Mark Morgan

Re: Howard Ameling photos

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

Yes, try NKP4@...


Roger Hinman

On Mar 27, 2009, at 2:47 PM, al.kresse wrote:

Does Howard Ameling still have his photograghic collection of
freight car negatives? How does one get ahold of him down in
Florida? I noticed some are on CD through the NKP folks.

Al Kresse


Re: [Rail_Freight_Group] CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

water.kresse@...
 

Wouldn't the higher density of these elements be such that they would put it in containers?



Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Elden J SAD Gatwood" <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 1:59:57 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: [Rail_Freight_Group] CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Tim;

 

I suspect this is one of very few cases of physical evidence for all of those
shipments of additives used in steel-making that never shows up the
simplified breakdowns (read Model Railroader) of industry requirements.
Given the presence of large numbers of D&RGW cars, I would bet this is
shipment of molybdenum, from the Climax area in Colorado.  Moly is a key
ingredient in high grade steel, and the best domestic source past that time
period was Colorado.

 

There were other additives that came out of that area, but I can't think of
any that you would have found in this volume.

 

At that time period, the large sources for iron bound for the Chicago area
would have been Lake ore (Mn) and foreign ores coming via the Great Lakes in
boats.  My 1960 Steel "guide" lists both, for many of the facilities in that
area.

 

Elden Gatwood

 


Russ Strodtz just posted a bunch of 1959 CB&Q Chicago consists

to the Rail_Freight_ Group -- and one included this:

8 DRGW 72563 Ore LG CK-IHB
9 NKP 67204 Ore LG CK-IHB
10 DRGW 72284 Ore LG CK-IHB
11 DRGW 72860 Ore LG CK-IHB
12 DRGW 71253 Ore LG CK-IHB
13 DRGW 71413 Ore LG CK-IHB
14 DRGW 71416 Ore LG CK-IHB
15 DRGW 73225 Ore LG CK-IHB
16 DRGW 71004 Ore LG CK-IHB
What sort of "ore" would travel all the way from the 'Rio Grande'

to Chicago?

Tim O'Connor

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Re: [Rail_Freight_Group] CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., "George A. Walls" <atsf1226@...> wrote:

Eldon,
I would think that all of this stuff coming form other sources would be as processed metals and not as raw ore. Even the Iron Ore from the Great Lakes area comes in as pellets. Doesn't make much sense to ship Iron Ore from Colorado when Colorado Fuel and Iron was having to bring in Iron Ore from Wyoming and Utah to meet demands. Did the Chicago area mills have the ability to process raw ore?

Would like to hear more on this subject.

George A Walls

Actually, if the steel mill had blast furnaces, it had to process raw ore (or Taconite, which is simply low grade ore beaten to powder so the waste rock can be separated, then the higher grade fines are rolled into little balls so they don't blow out of the furnace). A blast furnace doesn't just melt metal; it's a reduction process that breaks the irons molecular bond with oxygen. If you are going to start with metal to begin with (like scrap) you use either an open hearth or electric furnace.

With rare exception, any Minnesota, Wisconsin, or Michigan ore that went to the Chicago area, which includes northern Indiana, came by boat and was unloaded directly at the mill site, since all the Chicago area mills were right on the lake.

Dennis

Re: CB&Q to IHB 03-28-59

Tim O'Connor
 

Elden wrote

Pellets were really not a feature of steam-era steel-making, in any big
sense. The first pellet usage occurred in the late 50's from what I have
been told..
Reserve Mining's Silver Bay pellet operation opened in 1956,
with an initial capacity of 6 million tons of pellets. So yes
you are correct, almost all iron ore until the late 1950's was
from hematite-rich deposits.

Tim O'