Date   
Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs - Calif. Zinc Ore

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

Very interesting! So now the question is did those
gondolas travel the ATSF-WP-GN inside gateway route
to Great Falls, or SP-UP-MILW? :-)

Tim O'Connor

At 2/5/2009 06:32 PM Thursday, you wrote:
Tim / Jack,

Based on info in "Mineral Commodities of California" the zinc ore may
well have come from the Blue Moon mine in Mariposa County...

In 1942 the federal government began a program to increase production
"strategic minerals" within the US. Money was made available to
develop mine deposits, and by 1943, six additional zinc producers were
in operation in California. There were only four in 1942. By 1945
there were twelve mines operating in eight counties. Among these was
the Blue Moon in Mariposa County, close to Merced Falls. The
production, however, was "far in excess of development" and the Blue
Moon was one of two mines that would shut down by the end of 1945.

Historically in California, zinc output "boomed" during both WWI and
WWII. In the 1920's when prices were low, a smelter within the state
closed. As of the late 1940's it is noted in the text that zinc ore
still must be sent out of state for smelting, to Great Falls, Montana.
It was, however, refined in-state so as to be profitably shipped.
The book does not mention an in-state smelter starting up again during
WWII.

In the back of the book is a list of smelters which reported
purchasing California metals in 1948. The three listed as purchasing
zinc were: Anaconda Copper Mining Co., Great Falls, Mont.;
International Smelting & Ref. Co., Tooele, Utah; U. S. Smelting,
Refining & Mining Co., Midvale, Utah.

So, in 1944-45, it appears those C&O, D&RGW, Erie, IC, PMcK&Y, and SP
gons were heading out of state to a smelter. And, Jack's switch lists
catch them close to the end of the mine's operation.

John Hile
Blacksburg, VA

Re: Mainline Modeler back issues

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Claus - The NMRA library sells donated back issues at low cost. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Claus Schlund (HGM)
To: STMFC
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 7:00 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Mainline Modeler back issues


Hi,

I believe Mainline Modeler went belly-up soem time back.

Does anyone know if there is some good source of back issues of this magazine?

I'm trying to locate a copy of the Feb 2005 issue.

Thanks - Claus Schlund

Re: Mainline Modeler back issues

Jason Sanford <parkcitybranch@...>
 

I have always used Railpub for my back issue needs.
 
www.railpub.com

--- On Thu, 2/5/09, Claus Schlund (HGM) <claus@...> wrote:

From: Claus Schlund (HGM) <claus@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Mainline Modeler back issues
To: "STMFC" <STMFC@...>
Date: Thursday, February 5, 2009, 6:00 PM

Hi,

I believe Mainline Modeler went belly-up soem time back.

Does anyone know if there is some good source of back issues of this magazine?

I'm trying to locate a copy of the Feb 2005 issue.

Thanks - Claus Schlund





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mainline Modeler back issues

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi,

I believe Mainline Modeler went belly-up soem time back.

Does anyone know if there is some good source of back issues of this magazine?

I'm trying to locate a copy of the Feb 2005 issue.

Thanks - Claus Schlund

Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Robert <riverob@...>
 

There are some great photos on the 700+ flickr Vintqage Gas Stations
pool. Almost all of which received products delivered, in good part,
by Steam Era Freight Cars:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/630928@N24/pool

Rob Simpson



--- In STMFC@..., Raymond Young <rayvirg@...> wrote:

Brian,

I have a book, The American Gas Station, published by Motorbooks
International in 1992.  A catalog of Motorbooks International
publications is available from Motorbooks International, PO Box 1,
Osceola, WI  54020, 1-800-826-6600.  The address was given on the
dust jacket of the book.  It is well-illustrated and is presented by
periods from 1898 to 1992.  You might Google the title for more up-to-
date information.

Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX 




________________________________
From: Brian J. Carlson <brian@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:48:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Retail gas stations of the 1950's


I hope the Mike will allow mw a little latitude here since this
group is often a source of wide ranging information. I am looking for
an
avenue to determine what retail gasoline stations operated in the
towns I model in the mid 1950's. I have done the usual ebay
searches,
and am in the process of inquiring through local historical
societies,
old business directories, phone books etc.. Many of these towns had
a
bulk distributor' s that received shipment's in steam era tank
cars,
but through mergers and acquisitions, I am not sure who the players
were in 1957. Does anyone have any advice on where I might find
additional information?

Brian carlson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: MKT SS box cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 3, 2009, at 9:34 AM, ed_mines wrote:

I asked this question before - how common were BC red, SS MKT box cars
just after WWII?

I saw a 1958-59 NKP video on TV yesterday with an aforementioned BCR
car.






I have photographic evidence of a yellow car repainted in 6-48 and a
BCR car repainted in 4-49 (as well as several BCR cars repainted in
the early '50s). So by the '58-'59 date of the video, few (if any)
Katy SS box cars would have survived in yellow. And cars started to
be repainted yellow ca. 1942 - I have a photo of a car repainted BCR
in 10-41- so some BCR cars doubtless lasted into the early prewar
era, especially considering the deferred maintenance of the war years.


Richard Hendrickson

Re: Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Raymond Young
 

Brian,

I have a book, The American Gas Station, published by Motorbooks International in 1992.  A catalog of Motorbooks International publications is available from Motorbooks International, PO Box 1, Osceola, WI  54020, 1-800-826-6600.  The address was given on the dust jacket of the book.  It is well-illustrated and is presented by periods from 1898 to 1992.  You might Google the title for more up-to-date information.

Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX 




________________________________
From: Brian J. Carlson <brian@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, February 5, 2009 11:48:33 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Retail gas stations of the 1950's


I hope the Mike will allow mw a little latitude here since this group
is often a source of wide ranging information. I am looking for an
avenue to determine what retail gasoline stations operated in the
towns I model in the mid 1950's. I have done the usual ebay searches,
and am in the process of inquiring through local historical societies,
old business directories, phone books etc.. Many of these towns had a
bulk distributor' s that received shipment's in steam era tank cars,
but through mergers and acquisitions, I am not sure who the players
were in 1957. Does anyone have any advice on where I might find
additional information?

Brian carlson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian J. Carlson

I have done the usual ebay searches,
and am in the process of inquiring through local historical societies,
old business directories, phone books etc.

----- Original Message -----

Those are the sources I used to get that same info. The business/phone directories were far and away the best, especially the ones that listed every building in order, by street. I would add one I didn't need to use: high school yearbooks. They always had small ads bought by local businesses.

If you are doing the PRR, I would go by the CT 1000 and work from there.

Sanborn maps are available at some university libraries and also online:

http://sanborn.umi.com/HelpFiles/index.html

You have to go through a library of some sort to get an account, IIRC.

KL

Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs - Calif. Zinc Ore

John Hile <john66h@...>
 

Tim / Jack,

Based on info in "Mineral Commodities of California" the zinc ore may
well have come from the Blue Moon mine in Mariposa County...

In 1942 the federal government began a program to increase production
"strategic minerals" within the US. Money was made available to
develop mine deposits, and by 1943, six additional zinc producers were
in operation in California. There were only four in 1942. By 1945
there were twelve mines operating in eight counties. Among these was
the Blue Moon in Mariposa County, close to Merced Falls. The
production, however, was "far in excess of development" and the Blue
Moon was one of two mines that would shut down by the end of 1945.

Historically in California, zinc output "boomed" during both WWI and
WWII. In the 1920's when prices were low, a smelter within the state
closed. As of the late 1940's it is noted in the text that zinc ore
still must be sent out of state for smelting, to Great Falls, Montana.
It was, however, refined in-state so as to be profitably shipped.
The book does not mention an in-state smelter starting up again during
WWII.

In the back of the book is a list of smelters which reported
purchasing California metals in 1948. The three listed as purchasing
zinc were: Anaconda Copper Mining Co., Great Falls, Mont.;
International Smelting & Ref. Co., Tooele, Utah; U. S. Smelting,
Refining & Mining Co., Midvale, Utah.

So, in 1944-45, it appears those C&O, D&RGW, Erie, IC, PMcK&Y, and SP
gons were heading out of state to a smelter. And, Jack's switch lists
catch them close to the end of the mine's operation.


John Hile
Blacksburg, VA







--- In STMFC@..., "Jack Burgess" <jack@...> wrote:

Tim wrote:
Jack was the zinc inbound, or outbound? If outbound, do
you know where it went?
It was outbound from Merced Falls/the YV and was considered
essential to the
war effort...they shipped 115 carloads in the first months of 1944.
I don't
know where it went. Switch lists from August 1945 show gondolas from the
C&O, D&RGW, Erie, IC, PMcK&Y, and SP being used for this purpose.

Re: The Value of Reference Photos

naptownprr
 

Charlie,

I agree with what you have to say, but I think you meant you like OBjective reviews, not SUBjective reviews.

Jim

Quoting Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...>:

Ohhhh!! Back to discussing Freight Cars!!!!

I'm all for including reference photos whenever possible. I know
that manufactuers and magazine article authors often have problems
securing photos that have publishing rights along with them, but to
me nothing is as valuable in judging modeling as a photo of the
prototype that allows me to make my own conclusions.

Reference photos provide context for models displayed at meets.
Without prior knowledge of a specific prototype how else would we
appreciate modeling beyond craftsmanship and convincing paint and
decals?

As regards layouts, the same is true. Here it is often interesting
to see how the essence of a scene, given necessary selective
compression and other compromises, are executed and are instructive
for translating our own favorites onto our railroads.

The German Model Railroad magazines do product reviews mostly with
pictures. Often times they will compare similar competing products,
taking identical views and matching them up with similar photos of
the prototype. Text is pretty much limited to a chart of the basic
statistics of the models compared to the prototype, with perhaps some
objective comments about model construction. No need to make
statements like "dimensions are generally close to available
prototype measurements" as you can read the table and make the
determination if one brand is more accurate than another. The
photos remove a great deal of pressure from the reviewer from not
saying anything negative about an advertiser..... if the roofwalk is
three times as thick as the competition or the prototype or the car
rides a foot higher off the trucks than it should the beholder will
or will not notice it or care according to their own preferences
and/or knowledge. I like subjective reviews.... they don't have
the overblown judgement of one person and aren't subject to politics
as much. As I recall, one of the worst (most honest) reviews that
ever slipped into print was a tongue in cheek statement that "it is a
good model from three feet away...".

Charlie Vlk



The Value of Reference Photos

Charlie Vlk
 

Ohhhh!! Back to discussing Freight Cars!!!!

I'm all for including reference photos whenever possible. I know that manufactuers and magazine article authors often have problems securing photos that have publishing rights along with them, but to me nothing is as valuable in judging modeling as a photo of the prototype that allows me to make my own conclusions.

Reference photos provide context for models displayed at meets. Without prior knowledge of a specific prototype how else would we appreciate modeling beyond craftsmanship and convincing paint and decals?

As regards layouts, the same is true. Here it is often interesting to see how the essence of a scene, given necessary selective compression and other compromises, are executed and are instructive for translating our own favorites onto our railroads.

The German Model Railroad magazines do product reviews mostly with pictures. Often times they will compare similar competing products, taking identical views and matching them up with similar photos of the prototype. Text is pretty much limited to a chart of the basic statistics of the models compared to the prototype, with perhaps some objective comments about model construction. No need to make statements like "dimensions are generally close to available prototype measurements" as you can read the table and make the determination if one brand is more accurate than another. The photos remove a great deal of pressure from the reviewer from not saying anything negative about an advertiser..... if the roofwalk is three times as thick as the competition or the prototype or the car rides a foot higher off the trucks than it should the beholder will or will not notice it or care according to their own preferences and/or knowledge. I like subjective reviews.... they don't have the overblown judgement of one person and aren't subject to politics as much. As I recall, one of the worst (most honest) reviews that ever slipped into print was a tongue in cheek statement that "it is a good model from three feet away...".

Charlie Vlk

Re: Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Dave Nelson
 

Brian J. Carlson wrote:
I am looking for an avenue to determine what retail gasoline stations
operated in the
towns I model in the mid 1950's.
I learned quite a bit on this topic from reading Moody's Industrials.

I would think google could lead you to enough corporte histories that you
could put together a reasonable guess for the location you have in mind.

Dave Nelson

Prototype Police

Richard Hendrickson
 

Mike Brock expresses some concern about the Prototype Police...as well he might. Mike, rest assured that the PP file with your name on it is a large one. And bear in mind that widely recognized members of the prototype modeling community such as yourself are especially vulnerable to enforcement action on the principle that examples should be made of violators who are prominent. So don't stop looking over your shoulder; you never know who might be an undercover agent.

Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Dave Nelson
 

Gene Green wrote:
It seems to me that the various mathematical or statistical schemes
have one starting in the wrong place.

On most model railroads there are loads that originate on the modeled
portion, loads that have a destination on the modeled portion and
loads that simply pass through the scene.
First, I think, one should determine what gets shipped from or
delivered to points on the modeled portion.

I'll repeat myself: Tim and I were doing analysis of railroads, not model
railroads. Our hypothesis on the distribution of ordinary boxcars was for
real world data. That it might have some bearing on what an owner of a
model railroad could do has always been a bit problematic, if, for no other
reason, the huge reduction in the sample size. Modelers also often choose
to over-represent local movements...and area limits usually mean a gross
reduction in the representation of urban mfg areas...or even single sites.
And of course the cost of obtaining and using a foreign road boxcar fleet
large that is large enough to represent a national sample is another issue.
All of which adds to the difficulty of applying the hypothesis.

OTOH, for those few of us doing V-Scale -- that is computer sim railroading
-- we have the opportuity to do urban sites 1:1 (as I happen to be
modeling), to run 60, 70, 80 car freights (as I do), and to run over an
entire division of 100+ miles, with each town represented in full (as I
happen to be modeling). IOW, the difficulties of applying the distribution
to this method of modeling a setting disappears entirely.

All that said, I'll still stick to the premise that, absent historical data
for the site being modeled, the distribution model we offered is a pretty
decent place to start, whether one is modeling in plastic, resin, or
brass... or pixels.

Dave Nelson

Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Charlie;



Funny that you brought that up!



I have had that same problem with standardized car requirements/waybills on
my layout. It just didn't seem to replicate what I thought was going on in
real life.



I switched to an approach in which each industry generates a "demand" (car
number and type) each day, based on what they needed in empties and pick-ups.
A given entry on one day at USSteel might be "Need four MT 8K tank cars (ICC
103), twenty MT 70-t hoppers (or equivalent), and twelve clean MT gondolas
(two of which are 65'). Pick up all loaded gons, hoppers, and tank cars for
routing to Shire Oaks for classification". Only one card in many specifies
that they need two tanks of sulphuric acid, or a box car with electrical
parts for the mill. I can split that order up in two, for a morning and
afternoon local, so I can also serve other customers on that run (I am also
leaving out incoming scrap, flux stone, etc., but you get the drift).



In the winter months when the rivers freeze over and on-site coal supply gets
thin, one might them route coal into USS. There should be seasonal
variations, I guess.



A lumber yard might get more specific, since they need filled cars from
certain locations, like "Empire Lumber requires one load (50' box) of
interior-grade lumber, which is supplied from the Pacific Northwest (another
"pull" might specify southern pine). That way I get plausible cars with
imaginary or actual loads appropriate for that customer. Thus, for that
order I need an NP, SP&S, or GN 50' box car, or maybe a local road car that
has been sent back to me (not as common since most of those 50-footers on the
PRR would not have been going out that way).



I also have customers/industries that require certain loads once in a blue
moon, like a transformer at a power plant, or a flat car with a dozer at a
team track. Most of those demands are blank, then (team tracks were only
sporadically used by my date).



I then have to scare up cars out of staging to fill each train.



Large industries have a whole bunch of potential entries. Some small
businesses have only a few possible entries. Each of these lists is based on
research of the prototype industry, although some small ones are still
speculative. Specific loads are then loaded (or imaginary loaded in the case
of box cars, covered hoppers, tanks) into cars that have a specific purpose.



This requires me to write down the demands, obtain cars to fill it (via the
staging of trains), and then write up a switch list. I do not have to keep a
big stack of car cards (which drove me crazy), and my switch lists are a
one-time affair (although I kept some).



Yes, some cars appear much more frequently than others, due to demand issues.
If someone needs a 40' box, then most any 40' box could be sent from staging,
but if they need a real oddball (rarely), like a tank car in dedicated resin
service, they may have to wait until they become available.



This way of doing things allows me to generate lists of cars to be set out
(and pick up orders), in the sequence that makes blocking easy, and filling
out of switch lists easy, too.



No more waybills, just imaginary phone calls from customers, random event
cards, and easy switch lists.



Just another way to do it, I suppose.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Charlie Vlk
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:39 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs



To build on Gene's observation, this is one of the objections I have to the
Car Card Pocket / Waybill system as it is supposed to be used (waybills don't
stay with the Car Card Pocket but are cycled through available appropriate
car types.... but many don't ever leave the pocket and at best the car cycles
through the four available waybills).
Seems to me that because of the route and traffic originating on railroads
and the relationships between roads car usage is not really random. Certain
actors get the parts more often than others. Selection of roadnames for
"foreign" cars is more based on where inbounds originate than any
mathematical or statiscial scheme. Yes, there are exceptions because of the
intent of the interchange rules, but you are more likely to see a GN, NP or
CB&Q car with lumber inbound to a road that has freindly connections to the Q
than a Milwuakee road car. Not that you can't justify a Ribside Car Co. or
Fox Valley MILW ribside on your layout, it just wouldn't be as common.
So I don't think you need the speration of Car Card and Waybill.... the role
any given car plays should not be random.
It seems to me that with computers it isn't necessary to have the additional
bulk of the car card pocket.... the "scripts" ... waybills .... and the car
information can be printed and cut an pasted together on one card. The only
problem is how to indicate the completion of a waybill on a card that has
several on it (including delivery of empty cars to an online shipper for
loading or forwarding to the car's owner in compliance (or total violation
of) the interchange rules..... having the conductor mark the date of delivery
after the waybill line can take care of that and eliminates the need for the
layout owner to "flip" waybills in between sessions.
Anyone using such a setup???
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Green
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 05, 2009 11:12 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

It seems to me that the various mathematical or statistical schemes
have one starting in the wrong place.

On most model railroads there are loads that originate on the modeled
portion, loads that have a destination on the modeled portion and loads
that simply pass through the scene. (Jack Burgess' Yosemite Valley and
similar RRs that only connect with the rest of the world at one point
would not have that latter category, I suppose.)

First, I think, one should determine what gets shipped from or
delivered to points on the modeled portion. Those loads will
necessarily suggest, and in some cases demand, a certain type of car.
Next determine how much is shipped or received. Now you can determine
the number of the various types of cars needed.

Now one has the information needed to start using a mathematical or
statistical scheme ONLY IF better information is not available.

Gene Green

.

Re: Car cards, waybills [was: Freight Car Distribution]

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony-

At the risk of straying too far into the Operations Sig group and away from the Freight Cars themselves with this
thread, I think that it is worthwhile here unless STMFC is about making random interesting models and not intending
to operate them in context on a Model Railroad....

The "operation" of a Model Railroad is a compromise at best ... we try to distill an entire corporation's worth of employees down
to a group of people, most of whom want to run trains. I appreciate the notion of making Waybills more like the prototype, but
for a large home railroad operated frequently, the car distribution paperwork can cause the layout owner a lot of work in between
sessions.... time that could be spent on building and maintaining the railroad and its equipment.

I'm all for schemes that make the mix and use of cars "right". I like the texture that waybill information gives to the operators, even
though old heads will tell you the crews could care less about the details of a car beyond where to pick it up and where to drop it.

I too have looked at the baseball card protectors for waybills but the article really just used them as a substitute for the folded card pocket.
My railroad is still in spline and benchwork, so my thoughts are pretty theoretical even though I operate on a bunch of different railroads using
mostly conventional Old Line Graphics -type cards. Currently my thinking is centered on a two sided printed heavy stock master waybill for
each car with multiple (up to eight?) pickup/setout "sceanarios" on it.... with (in deference to my HO friends that will operate on my N Scale
railroad) a photo of the car on at least one side of the card. As I stated in my earlier post, to achieve the "flip" function that the Waybill Pocket
gives, the Conductor would date the delivery at the time the car is dropped. When the waybill is all used up a new one can be printed or the
pencil marks erased to start the cycle over again.

My railroad doesn't require any routing instructions..... the train descriptions give the crews the info they need to get cars to their destinations...
and there are not any overall "sessions" as far as the cars are concerned... every car moves on its own script, allowing for adjustments to be made
for light/heavy operator turnout. This may result in imbalances in car distribution, but these can be handled by the Traffic Manager by ordering
extras or annulling trains.

Thinking about what cars one should have provides some framework to which cars to model..... even for a fictional railroad like mine which is set in
a combination of M&StL, CGW, CB&Q, and P&E territory as it runs from Indianapolis to Minneapolis. The "flavor" of the traffic of those roads is a
pattern for me to consider in my choice of cars to aquaire/kitbash/build.

Charlie Vlk

Re: Freight Car Distribution on smaller RRs

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Gene--

IMHO, there is no one STMFC distribution model that can be universally
applied by all STMFC modellers. Each has its own merits. But it's
said that when the only tool that one has is a hammer, every problem
becomes a nail.

STMFC layout owners could use primary sources (i.e. switch lists,
wheel reports) for car distribution--if they were available. Of
course, for most this is not the case. But to rely on any one model
alone is fraught with peril. I like the N-G (seems to be mostly
overhead traffic on a transcon piece of the UPRR) data, but can I
really use it in MY STMFC layout roster? I'm more inclined to
consider (and favour the study of to determine my STMFC roster) what
was shipped/received/overhead traffic in my prototype line segment.

And this discussion makes me realise that those GA, D&H, and B&M
boxcars are not going to be seen on my 1956 Eastern Ontario layout too
often!

Steve Lucasv

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

It seems to me that the various mathematical or statistical schemes
have one starting in the wrong place.

On most model railroads there are loads that originate on the modeled
portion, loads that have a destination on the modeled portion and loads
that simply pass through the scene. (Jack Burgess' Yosemite Valley and
similar RRs that only connect with the rest of the world at one point
would not have that latter category, I suppose.)

First, I think, one should determine what gets shipped from or
delivered to points on the modeled portion. Those loads will
necessarily suggest, and in some cases demand, a certain type of car.
Next determine how much is shipped or received. Now you can determine
the number of the various types of cars needed.

Now one has the information needed to start using a mathematical or
statistical scheme ONLY IF better information is not available.

Gene Green

Re: Retail gas stations of the 1950's

jrwark <jrwark@...>
 

Very timely, albeit possibly off-topic, question. Just a couple of
days ago I went to the state archives and library and yours was one of
the questions I researched.

In addition to Sanborn maps and phone books as already mentioned, I
also found good information in city/town directories. For larger
cities, these are usually published by Polk during the STMFC era. In
Tennessee, there were also directories published by other sources for
smaller cities/large towns. I wasn't able to find info on every town
I was interested in, but I was able to find enough information to
confirm which of the oil companies had wholesale distribution and
retail service station operations in the region.

Another source was centennial and sesquicentennial anniversary
publications. I found these for almost every town or county I was
interested in. These typically have advertisements for local
businesses and photos of business areas. In several cases there were
pictures of service stations and/or bulk plants that will be helpful
in modeling. In at least one case, there was confirmation of a track
routing that confirmed a detail from the Sanborn map that I had been
skeptical of. Unfortunately, no freight car pictures. Bummer.

If you're not close to your state archives, then most libraries have
at least some old phone books and directories. Local/county museums
and historical societies often do as well.

John Wark

Car cards, waybills [was: Freight Car Distribution]

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
To build on Gene's observation, this is one of the objections I have to the Car Card Pocket / Waybill system . . . many don't ever leave the pocket and at best the car cycles through the four available waybills).
I'd agree that when this happens mindlessly, it's a bad feature, but there ARE leased or assigned cars which DO cycle back and forth as loads and empties. Many tank cars are in this category, as are cars like auto parts cars. So any car card system needs a way to reproduce repetitious movements as well as the "random" ones which we can associate with free-running cars like XM box cars, and to some extent gondolas and flat cars.

It seems to me that with computers it isn't necessary to have the additional bulk of the car card pocket.... the "scripts" ... waybills .... and the car information can be printed and cut an pasted together on one card. The only problem is how to indicate the completion of a waybill on a card that has several on it (including delivery of empty cars to an online shipper for loading or forwarding to the car's owner in compliance (or total violation of) the interchange rules...
The prototype waybill, of course, contains the car reporting mark and number. In the model world we are trying to avoid having a waybill for every COMBINATION of car and cargo, which is how we got to car cards with separate waybill-like documents.
An interesting idea is to use a transparent sleeve as the "car card," and insert waybills into it. In this way, more than one waybill can be present, and they are simply cycled in the "stack" inside the sleeve; they can include "empty car routing cards," which the prototype used to move empties. This was nicely described by Bill Neale in the February 2009 MR.
But Neale uses an "old fashioned" model waybill, nothing much like a real one. There is an effort afoot, with a group of operators including Tony Koester and Dan Holbrook, to make the waybills much more like miniatures of the prototype ones. This is still evolving, and I look forward to hearing more about it as it matures. There was a nice talk about this adaptation of the prototype waybill at Cocoa Beach this year, from a speaker named Pamperin (if I recall the name correctly).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Re: Retail gas stations of the 1950's

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Wow! A bunch of responses quickly. I haven't been able to find Sanborn maps
for Warren Pa. Corry Pa, Youngsville, Titusville Pa. etc yet.
If these response get far from steam era freight cars please respond to me
off list at brian@... I don't want to incur the wrath of our
esteemed moderator. However, his eyes are probably a little glazed over
right now from rehashing his views on freight car distribution, so we should
be ok. :-)
Brian
On Thu, 5 Feb 2009 13:12:34 -0500, Allen Cain wrote

Brian,