Date   

Re: B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Tony Thompson
 

     That a car end would be termed "indestructible" tells you all you need to know about problems with wood car ends, leading eventually to steel ends, of course. And BTW the name of that end turned out to be inaccurate.

Tony Thompson




Re: B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 04:36 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
That’s a B&O M-15 boxcar rebuilt with “Indestructible ends.” These became M-15f, M-15h, and M-15j subclasses.
Photo from the 1922 CBC:


Lack of initials above the car number seems to suggest a DL&W car. Here's an Erie car:


Dennis Storzek


Re: 1960 End Date

Benjamin Hom
 

Jared Harper wrote:
"You're alive!  Since I have not heard a peep about you or from you I thought you might have croaked from Covid."

Not funny.  Greg Martin.  Way too soon.


Ben Hom


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

Douglas Harding
 

Matt you are right. Mine are 4-40, but I have used them to cut brass 2-56 screws.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Matt Goodman via groups.io
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 3:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Interesting. I’ve seen 4-40 shears on wire strippers, but not 2-56. The former works, but requires cleanup. Ironically, my full size strippers will cut down to the 4-40, whereas the smaller strippers that will do 30 gauge wire only goes down to 6’s.

 

Matt Goodman

Columbus, Ohio, US

 

On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:57 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

 

I have an electrician’s wire stripper that also is designed to cut a variety of small screw sizes, including 2-56. Works great on brass screws, gives a nice clean cut, just touch up with a file and I have one any length I want.

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Ben,

 

Why I like the Delrin 2-56 screws is I can cut or trim them to the exact length that I want, with ease.  I've done this before and after installation with equal success.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Benjamin Hom [b.hom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 1:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

Wayne Cohen wrote: 
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

 

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.

 

 

Ben Hom

 


Re: 1960 End Date

Jared Harper
 

You're alive!  Since I  have not  heard a peep about you or from you I thought you might have croaked from Covid.

Jared Harper


B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

David
 

I do, however, find the roof unusual.  Why to the seam caps seem to stop a good foot short of the eave?
I believe those are stiffening ridges of some kind. If you look at the right side of the roof, the panel seams do extend all the way to the edge, beyond the more prominent features.

David Thompson


Photo: VGN Gondola 18125 With Coal Load

David
 

Virginian class G-2, ordinary 50-ton gondola. Curiously, Kanawha Glen Jean & Eastern ordered copies of this design, but those cars do not appear to have gone to C&O when it took over that line in 1940.

David Thompson


Photo: PRR Automobile Boxcar 62812

David
 

I believe that's a BR&P hopper in the background.

David Thompson


Photo: Norfolk & Western Boxcar 65216

David
 

N&W 65216 is a class BJa ventilator car. Lettering style dates it to the late '20s or early-mid '30s, and the car has a replacement Climax radial roof. Lumber is not the first lading one might think of for a vent, but this N&W car and the Seaboard vent behind it were pressed into board service along the way.

David Thompson


Re: B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Eric Hansmann
 

That’s a B&O M-15 boxcar rebuilt with “Indestructible ends.” These became M-15f, M-15h, and M-15j subclasses. HO resin kits have been available from Westerfield Models. 

I have no idea about the seam caps on the roof. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 10, 2020, at 5:58 PM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,

A Facebook poster pointed out that B&O boxcar #82965, just to the right of center and just beyond the two tank cars in this John Vachon, June 1941 photo of Milwaukee's yards
shows a single sheathed end on a double sheathed car. (I suggest going to the .tif image at https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/fsa/8c19000/8c19600/8c19665u.tif to really blow it up).

Other photos in the series are interesting as well, including this nearly top-down gondola load

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn


B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

David
 

Home-grown Tatum end. B&O applied it to many of their double-sheathed cars in the 1920s and '30s.

David Thompson


Re: Photos: MPLX Tank Car 966 - Mexican Petroleum Corporation

Dave Parker
 

John:

I date the American Gas silver-on-black scheme to about 1930.  I don't think it persisted very long, and my sense is that the white-oval-on-black scheme came along later.   My guess is that you want the latter for the late 1940s.
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Dave Parker
 

I don't know how unusual this combination is generally, but it (or something similar) is not uncommon on rebuilt 36-ft DS cars (D&H, NYNH&H, probably others).  But, this is a 40-ft car (says my 1938 ORER), so maybe it is.  Perhaps one of the B&O experts can comment.

I do, however, find the roof unusual.  Why to the seam caps seem to stop a good foot short of the eave?  Have we ever seen this before?
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photos: MPLX Tank Car 966 - Mexican Petroleum Corporation

John Stanford
 

Does anyone know the timeline for the later MPLX lettering schemes?  Did the American Gas lettering on silver preceed the white Amoco logo on black, or were they concurrent?  Wondering what would be appropriate for late 40's.

-John Stanford


B&O double sheathed boxcar with single sheathed ends?

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

A Facebook poster pointed out that B&O boxcar #82965, just to the right of center and just beyond the two tank cars in this John Vachon, June 1941 photo of Milwaukee's yards
shows a single sheathed end on a double sheathed car. (I suggest going to the .tif image at https://cdn.loc.gov/master/pnp/fsa/8c19000/8c19600/8c19665u.tif to really blow it up).

Other photos in the series are interesting as well, including this nearly top-down gondola load

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Actually, binder head screws are used in conjunction with binder posts, a T-shaped internally-threaded post which fits in standard punched holes in paper.  The posts and the screws are used to >>bind<< booklets and to get to topic, freight car diagram books.  Having caused the ELHS to republish freight, passenger and locomotive diagram books, I am quite familiar with them.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Daniel A. Mitchell
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 4:27 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

What you illustrate is called a “binder-head” screw. They have the thinnest head among the common screw types. Due to the shallow head few have Phillips or cross-head driving recesses. They were developed to hold wires to terminals, called “binding”. They are commonly found in the electronics industry, especially on barrier-type terminal strips.

 

Slightly thicker and more rounded are “pan-head” screws. The thicker head allows, in addition the common slot, use of Phillips or cross-head driving recesses.

 

Next up in head thickness is the common “round-head” screw where the head is nearly hemispherical.

 

There are many other types. The more common include:

 

“stove-head” screws (sometimes called" truss-head”) that have a larger diameter thin head. The name comes from their original use in assembling sheet metal heating and cooking stoves.

 

“fillister-head” screws (sometimes called “cheese-head”) have a thick cylindrical head, usually with a slightly convex top surface. These are found mostly in machine assembly. Some of the Kadee plastic screws have this head.



Most of the thicker head styles are also available with “Allen” (hex socket) driving recesses, and nowadays “”Torx” or similar star-shaped recesses.



Complicating the issue is that every make uses slightly different shape and proportions, plus many commercial large-scale users specify their own designs.



Dan Mitchell

==========

 



On Jul 10, 2020, at 11:47 AM, Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

 

I keep running into a difficulty of the draft gear box wanting to rotate if the screw isn’t really TIGHT, which can be obviated by making sure there is a continuous contact between the back end of the box and the center sill, or, of course, by some adhesive.  I really prefer the very flat headed screws I mentioned before as it reduces the side profile of the screw head.  They look something like this:

<image003.jpg>

But have an even flatter head

When I got the dozens I have, they were only available with the slotted head.  I see now that there are some which are cross-headed screws.

 

Schuyler

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 10:13 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 

Hi List Members,

 

It is exactly for this reason that I prefer brass screws - they are relatively easy to cut to a custom length (much easier than steel screws), but since they are metal they are stronger than plastic screws

 

Claus Schlunnd

 

----- Original Message ----- 

Sent: Friday, July 10, 2020 8:31 AM

Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

 


I use the Kadee screws for cases (hoppers and flats) where the length of the screw causes it to emerge
and become visible - or if it interferes with something inside the car, like a weight. I install it, and then cut it
off flush. If you're snapping them, you're over tightening them. Use a tiny drop of Loctite if you're worried
about them coming out.

Tim O'Connor


On 7/8/2020 1:12 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Wayne Cohen wrote: 
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."

 

Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.

 

 

Ben Hom


-- 
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

 


Re: Poultry cars : Bachmann news just received

Tim O'Connor
 


No one is going to import a "Tangent quality" RTR poultry car from China (or wherever).

Ambroid wood kit, Overland brass, or scratchbuild. Them's the choices in HO scale.


On 7/10/2020 12:00 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:

Charlie Vlk posted this reply to the Early Rail discussion list on this Bachmann model.

 

As I said, the car body is the standard Bachmann 40 Ft steel box car.  I wouldn’t be surprised if it is the same mold or started life as the Athearn copy that Kader made for Mantua as their “Crown” line in the 1960s that were sold as carded RTR cars.

The printing almost makes a convincing car though….in the catalog.

Charlie Vlk

 

IMO, this model might prevent another manufacture from producing a model with prototype fidelity. Other than the screening, there is little about the Bachmann model that reflects the prototype poultry cars.

 

Oh, it has wheels. I forgot the prototype poultry cars ran on wheels.

 

Eric Hansmann



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Photo: Flood Damaged PFE Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 


Yep, definitely below the stringer, and attached (abutted) to the end sill.



On 7/10/2020 2:56 PM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 08:07 AM, Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
Well, I agree that it’s not tight to the floor above it, but . . . it’s also appearing to be bent, and on a wrecked car, I’d be cautious about generalizing from the condition of this particular diagonal to say that all diagonals on PFE reefers are the same.  Once bent, that channel has lost a good bit of its integrity.
All the way at the left edge of the second photo https://dl.library.ucla.edu/islandora/object/edu.ucla.library.specialCollections.losAngelesDailyNews%3A1053
is another car that shows both diagonals and neither is bent. I'd say the cars were built this way. the 1910 era NYC 36' steel underframe boxcar I tooled a couple years ago also had the diagonals below the floor stringers; they are on the Pullman builder's drawings. Those diagonals run the more conventional way, from the center of the bolster out to the car corners, likely to reinforce the frame behind the poling pocket. I'd say the purpose of running the diagonal in the opposit direction is to keep the body bolster from bending when the roping staple was used to move too many coupled cars. 

Dennis Storzek

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

John Monrad
 


Dimensions per McMaster-Carr for 2-56 screw heads, 18-8 ss:

Type    Diameter (in)   Height (in)   /100 (1/4in)
Truss       0.194              0.053             $4.96
Binding*  0.181              0.050             $4.69
Pan          0.167              0.063             $4.49

*Slotted only

John Monrad


Re: Coupler Mounting Screws

Matt Goodman
 

Interesting. I’ve seen 4-40 shears on wire strippers, but not 2-56. The former works, but requires cleanup. Ironically, my full size strippers will cut down to the 4-40, whereas the smaller strippers that will do 30 gauge wire only goes down to 6’s.

Matt Goodman
Columbus, Ohio, US

On Jul 9, 2020, at 10:57 PM, Douglas Harding <iowacentralrr@...> wrote:

I have an electrician’s wire stripper that also is designed to cut a variety of small screw sizes, including 2-56. Works great on brass screws, gives a nice clean cut, just touch up with a file and I have one any length I want.
 
 
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Thursday, July 9, 2020 9:43 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws
 

Ben,

 

Why I like the Delrin 2-56 screws is I can cut or trim them to the exact length that I want, with ease.  I've done this before and after installation with equal success.

 

Mont Switzer


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] on behalf of Benjamin Hom [b.hom@...]
Sent: Wednesday, July 08, 2020 1:12 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Coupler Mounting Screws

Wayne Cohen wrote: 
"In the distant past, I tried Kadee’s 2-56 Delrin screws to mount couplers.  Many of the heads snapped off in normal use and I quit using them. Slot or Phillips head - same results."
 
Slot or Phillips is irrelevant - why use plastic screws if electrical shorts are not an issue?  Use metal screws instead.
 
 

Ben Hom


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