Date   

PRR Stock cars on Southern Pacific tracks?

David North
 

A friend has asked if PRR stock cars would have been seen on Southern Pacific tracks.

I would have thought no, but thought I’d check with you guys first, before replying to him.

He models 1954.

Cheers

Dave


Re: Union Tank Car Co. UTLX 17441 a “squat”

al_brown03
 

I've seen a two-compartment tank with a half-length dome platform on each end (one on each side).

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Union Tank Car Co. UTLX 17441 a “squat”

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

Don, it's era dependent. The ARA safety appliance drawing dated 1917, presented in the 1922 CBC, only shows one dome platform. I've always just assumed at some point the requirement was increased to one on each side, but never bothered to track down the date.

     I don't know whether the two walks were ever REQUIRED. Ed Kaminski told me that nearly every detail of the TANK (not the underframe) was a buyer choice, though of course they had to choose among permitted features. Certainly before WW II, you can find plenty of photos of tanks with either one or two walks. 

Tony Thompson




Re: Union Pacific Stock Car colors - FCR to Yellow?

Tony Thompson
 

Rob Mondichak wrote:

I did a search but could find nothing conclusive - is there a specific time period or car series for the UP change from FCR to yellow for stock cars? 

     The UP first painted stock cars yellow (with aluminum roof and ends) in early 1947, when they inaugurated a fast livestock service between Salt Lake and Los Angeles. The paint scheme was ONLY for the cars in that service,which had been equipped with roller-bearing trucks. All other stock car remained BCR. Gradually more and more of the BCR cars received aluminum roofs. 
       AFAIK this pattern of paint assignment remained through the 1950s. Others on this list can doubtless stay more.

Tony Thompson




Re: Union Tank Car Co. UTLX 17441 a "squat"

Steve and Barb Hile
 

There is a section in the UTLX book on dome platforms and ladders that Dave and I discussed a lot before completing it.  It appears that, prior to 1930, UTLX tank cars provided just a single dome platform on the side of the tank that would be on the left, as viewed from the B end of the car (that is, the same side as the KC brake cylinder and reservoir.)
 
Beginning with the cars built in 1930 and continuing with cars built from then on, UTLX designs called for a ladder and dome platform on both sides of the tank.  The style of ladder changed about the same time.  As Tony says, for more details, see the book.
 
This gives me a chance to comment on Lester's build of UTLX 17441.  He is a craftsman and did a beautiful job in completing the kit.  Unfortunately, the instructions provided apparently do not make clear that the end platforms changed with these cars that were built in 1936 and 37.  Two thousand 6500 gallon and 800 eight thousand gallon X-3 tank cars were built on a common underframe.  This resulted in the "squat" appearance of the 8000 gallon cars, numbered 17000 - 17799.  These cars did NOT have the full board platform on the car ends stretching from the end sill to the bolster.  Rather, there were two boards for an end sill running board and the normal side sill running board for the length of the car, leaving an opening down to the trucks between the end running boards and the bolster.  There are several surviving examples of these cars, including at Mid Continent and IRM and there are drawings and photos in the book and some photos that I posted years ago on the old Steam Era Freight Cars website.
 
So, if you still have one of these older Sunshine kits for a "Squat" 8000 gallon car consult some photos or the book to complete the underframe.  Maybe we can convince Frank to redo these cars under the RCW banner.
 
Steve Hile



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dave Parker via Groups.Io
Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2020 11:38 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Union Tank Car Co. UTLX 17441 a “squat”

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 08:47 AM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
Don, it's era dependent. The ARA safety appliance drawing dated 1917, presented in the 1922 CBC, only shows one dome platform. I've always just assumed at some point the requirement was increased to one on each side, but never bothered to track down the date.
Having looked through a lot of ICC regs from 1927 through 1955,  I have yet to find any indication that the second platform was required during the period covered by this group.  So, that's an assumption that I would not make absent additional evidence. 

As to why some cars were fitted with the second platform, while others were not, I cannot find any rhyme or reason to it.  But there certainly were a great many cars with just one, something not reflected on any RTR models that I have seen.  With kits, it's an easy fix of course.
 --
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: BAR Reefer

charles slater
 

It is 8264.
Charlie Slater

Sent from Outlook



From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Thursday, February 6, 2020 7:55 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: BAR Reefer
 

Photo: BAR Reefer

Can anyone make out the car number on this reefer:

https://www.mainememory.net/artifact/15240

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Union Pacific Stock Car colors - FCR to Yellow?

Dick Harley
 

Tim,

Care to give me a page number in Terry's book?  I can't find your data in it.

I did notice that even the diagram in Terry's book (p. 145) for the S-40-12 class lists both AY and FCR side Color Schemes for the different series.

I'm beginning to think this is another trick by Tim to get Dick to do the research.  :-)
Just put out some bogus facts about UP or PFE, and Dick will jump in to correct it, since he hates bogus facts (from any source).


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA


Re: Union Pacific Stock Car colors - FCR to Yellow?

Rob M.
 

Thank you gents.   We're O scalers so some of us don't get out as much as we should. 

I'll mention this all to the gentleman who asked the original question and he will most likely have to apply the findings to the available O scale models.  Right off the top we do have Yoder S-40-6 which is nicely done in FCR.

He indicated he had joined this group but was waiting approval. I told him to make sure he got he right STMFC. 

Rob Mondichak


Re: Union Pacific Stock Car colors - FCR to Yellow?

Tim O'Connor
 


Same source - Terry Metcalfe's UP freight cars book. 1st edition, published 1989.
The comments in the book seem anecdotal and not all classes are covered so I take
it with a grain of salt. I almost -always- try to find a photo before painting in
any case...



On 2/6/2020 1:54 PM, Dick Harley via Groups.Io wrote:
Tim,

Where did you get the data about, "All of the S-40-12 cars were delivered in yellow." ?

Or, "In 1958, the decision was made to paint NON-roller bearing stock cars freight car red so
only 'high speed' cars with roller bearings would be yellow." ?

The non-roller bearing S-40-12s were UP #46800 - 46999.  Photos of that series are apparently scarce, but I have a photo of #46863D (Bob's Photo FUP20-A, San Diego, 4-'57) that is in FCR with a reweigh date of 10-55.
My spreadsheet also says those car sides were FCR, which agrees with UP drawing 303-C-10600, rev.A dated 6-12-50 (available at Colorado RR Museum).

The non-roller bearing S-40-13 class built in 1951-'52 also had FCR sides (Metcalfe book).

After a quick look, I can't find any NON-roller bearing UP stock cars painted with Armour Yellow sides.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Union Pacific Stock Car colors - FCR to Yellow?

Dick Harley
 

Tim,

Where did you get the data about, "All of the S-40-12 cars were delivered in yellow." ?

Or, "In 1958, the decision was made to paint NON-roller bearing stock cars freight car red so
only 'high speed' cars with roller bearings would be yellow." ?

The non-roller bearing S-40-12s were UP #46800 - 46999.  Photos of that series are apparently scarce, but I have a photo of #46863D (Bob's Photo FUP20-A, San Diego, 4-'57) that is in FCR with a reweigh date of 10-55.
My spreadsheet also says those car sides were FCR, which agrees with UP drawing 303-C-10600, rev.A dated 6-12-50 (available at Colorado RR Museum).

The non-roller bearing S-40-13 class built in 1951-'52 also had FCR sides (Metcalfe book).

After a quick look, I can't find any NON-roller bearing UP stock cars painted with Armour Yellow sides.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA



Gibson Wine Company Tank Cars

G.J. Irwin
 

Hi Gang,

The Gibson Wine Company of California leased a number of tank cars, at least single and four-compartment versions, from General American.  Given its colorful paint scheme featuring a depiction of a pheasant, the single dome version has been offered several times in at least N, HO and O Scales including most recently this month by Micro-Trains as part of its "Grape to Glass" series.  Protocraft has decals for the exact car, GATX 66719, and I've found a photo of the prototype online.  MTL says this car was built by AC&F but it does not appear in either of Ed Kaminski's AC&F book that I own.

I am trying to narrow down an Approximate Time Period for these cars from my UMTRR.  Only the build date is on the Micro-Trains model and I don't see any other dates on any of the other models either.  (The car in the prototype photo is far too dirty to read much of anything.) 

I've read in Tony Thompson's blog posts about wine cars that they operated in the 1950s and 1960s, examples being Roma Wine and Chateau-Martin.  Tangent has done a Roma Wine car with a "1940+" date.  Would anyone out there have anything on Gibson Wine?

The company is still in business, by the way, and their home page includes a photo of two of their tank cars: www.gibsonwinecompany.com .

Thanks and Cheers (pun not intended),
George Irwin


Re: Union Tank Car Co. UTLX 17441 a “squat”

Dave Parker
 

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 08:47 AM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
Don, it's era dependent. The ARA safety appliance drawing dated 1917, presented in the 1922 CBC, only shows one dome platform. I've always just assumed at some point the requirement was increased to one on each side, but never bothered to track down the date.
Having looked through a lot of ICC regs from 1927 through 1955,  I have yet to find any indication that the second platform was required during the period covered by this group.  So, that's an assumption that I would not make absent additional evidence. 

As to why some cars were fitted with the second platform, while others were not, I cannot find any rhyme or reason to it.  But there certainly were a great many cars with just one, something not reflected on any RTR models that I have seen.  With kits, it's an easy fix of course.
 --
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Union Tank Car Co. UTLX 17441 a “squat”

Dennis Storzek
 

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 05:57 AM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:
My late friend, and kitbasher extrodinaire, Robert W. Witbeck and I first began noticing that
many tank cars had dome platforms on only one side back in the mid-1990's but were never successful in determining
what factors decided whether on or two dome platforms were to be used
Don, it's era dependent. The ARA safety appliance drawing dated 1917, presented in the 1922 CBC, only shows one dome platform. I've always just assumed at some point the requirement was increased to one on each side, but never bothered to track down the date.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Photo: BAR Reefer

Tim O'Connor
 


General American "RS-4" class built in 1955.

And PFE 62269 is an R-30-18 or R-40-18!!

PFE series 60001 to 62500 had 2,437 cars in 1953, which was nearly equal to the
R-40-23 and R-40-25 classes. (For you fleet modelers.) Far more numerous were the
R-30-19/R-40-19 and R-30-9/R-40-9 classes. If you model PFE in the 1950's your
fleet needs a lot of those rebuilds. :-)





On 2/6/2020 10:57 AM, Todd Sullivan via Groups.Io wrote:
8264.

Todd Sullivan

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Union Pacific Stock Car colors - FCR to Yellow?

Tim O'Connor
 

April 1947 according to Terry Metcalfe - and as Greg said, the S-40-10's were the first.

All of the S-40-12 cars were delivered in yellow. 300 had roller bearings and wore the
"livestock dispatch" lettering, and 200 had plain bearings and no such lettering.

In 1958, the decision was made to paint NON-roller bearing stock cars freight car red so
only "high speed" cars with roller bearings would be yellow.

Also according to Terry the Union Pacific's stock business rose after the war, unlike most
other railroads. High speed service to California evidently was the reason.

Tim O'

On 2/6/2020 12:58 AM, Dick Harley via Groups.Io wrote:

On the UP Freight Car Data portion of my SmugMug site is a gallery with a 3-page spreadsheet of UP Stock Car Data.
https://harley-trains.smugmug.com/UP-FRT-DATA

On the right side of the second page are three columns for Body Color - pre and post 1940.

It's been years since I built that spreadsheet, and I do not recall if I ever determined a pattern to the color choice, though there probably was one.
I guess determining that pattern is now "left as an exercise for the student."  May be solid versus roller bearing journals, but I've got too much other stuff to do.

Let us know if anyone figures out something.


Cheers,
Dick Harley
Laguna Beach,  CA
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Photo: BAR Reefer

Stic Harris
 

8264?

Stic

On Thu, Feb 6, 2020 at 10:55 AM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: BAR Reefer

Can anyone make out the car number on this reefer:

https://www.mainememory.net/artifact/15240

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA



--


- Stic


Re: Photo: BAR Reefer

Todd Sullivan
 

8264.

Todd Sullivan


Photo: BAR Reefer

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: BAR Reefer

Can anyone make out the car number on this reefer:

https://www.mainememory.net/artifact/15240

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Log Debarking Drums On Flat Cars

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Log Debarking Drums On Flat Cars

Photo from Maine Memory Network:

https://www.mainememory.net/artifact/12557

Click to enlarge the photo.

Description:

"A five-car trainload of log-debarking drums in the Portland Company yard at the base of Munjoy Hill awaits shipment to distant paper mills." --Fletcher, David H. "The Portland Company 1846-1982." Charleston, S.C.: Arcadia Pub., 2002. 97.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: NYC And New Haven Boxcars, Circa 1931

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: NYC And New Haven Boxcars, Circa 1931

Photo from Maine Memory Network

https://www.mainememory.net/artifact/79697

Description:

"This photograph shows the Maine Baking Company delivery truck loading the railroad cars for shipment in Auburn around 1930. The Maine Baking Company was founded by Franco-American Philippe Couture in Auburn in 1928. Among its popular products were 'Golden Heart' bread and 'Drake's Cakes.'

The railroad shown here is either the Grand Trunk Railroad or Maine Central Railroad. The cars are from the New York, New Haven and Hartford Railroad, which served southern New England."

Stencil indicates the NYC boxcar's journals were repacked in 1931.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA