Date   

Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Ron,

Actually a lot of older cars ran in parts pool service. The WP, for example, rebuilt a handful of older 40' boxcars with added double doors for parts service (IIRC, there were only five). I posted a photo of one of these cars the other day in relation to the WP Burro cranes. The boxcar in question was by then in MW service.

Many cars in auto parts service had model-specific racks or load restraining devices. These had to be updated when models changed, though not always every year (load restrainers for engines or frames, for example, might stay the same for several years, while body panels might change annually if the auto model was regularly being redesigned).

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Tue, Jun 23, 2020 at 9:24 AM mopacfirst <ron.merrick@...> wrote:
Another point that occurs to me is, how old are the cars at the date you're modeling, and are there newer ones that could hold down the dedicated service assignments?  By "old", in the case of cars like this, I mean the rebuild date.  And shippers would have been interested in whether the doors close tight, the inside is clean with not too many nails sticking out of the lining, and that it's easy to tie down or brace or block the load.

If you assume that, in that specific year, those auto parts pools or whatever get the newest and best cars, and that the market (I'm thinking the auto parts business, primarily, since both shipper and receiver were highly specific) hasn't expanded dramatically where they need anything that rolls, then older cars are probably much more likely to be found in general service. 

Furniture and appliances, and farm equipment, have a different profile where the shippers are highly specific but the receivers are much more diverse, might have a different profile of cars.  And low trades like hay, as in the example, would get whatever the yardmaster doesn't have a better purpose for.

I realize this is a highly generalized way of stating the operating practice.

Ron Merrick


Re: Reading Reefer Photo Request

Eric Hansmann
 

The photos I bought document the construction of the grain elevator and grain pier in the 1926-1928 time frame..

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bill Adam via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 9:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reading Reefer Photo Request

 

That photo is taken looking west from the Delaware River just south of Allegheny Avenue.  The grain elevator was removed in the 1990's.


Tour the WDHS this Thursday

Allen Montgomery
 

Hi everybody.
I'm pleased to announce that the Wyoming Division Historical Society will be featured on Virtual OS Check-In this Thursday at 5:30 Pacific Standard Time here.


So, if your looking for a safe way to spend a Thursday evening, come and watch Lenny and I give a tour of what we've been up to.
Hope to see you there!

Allen Montgomery


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Bill Keene
 

On Jun 23, 2020, at 6:07 AM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

I didn’t forget about those issues, but according to car service rules, wouldn’t shipments originating in Iowa more likely be loaded in home road cars and foreign cars having interchange with the Q?

Remember that not all of the Fe-7 through Fe-20 class 50 foot “automobile” cars were in assigned / dedicated service. A good number of these cars were in general service. That is, they were free roamers. 

Let’s take a single example — I am sure that there are many multiples examples — of an one of these Fe-class cars having brought a load from the west to the east. Say to a destination on the PRR. Then there was a load of let’s say refrigerators — a load that would volume out before reaching the load limit that would fit the requirements for use of a 50 foot car with the easy access of a larger door opening. As a railroad I have a choice of returning the car as an empty via reverse routing to the ATSF or loading it with an income producing load in the direction of its home road. Let’s say that the load was going a western destination on the CB&Q. A possible routing could have been from  the eastern location on the PRR to Chicago to the CB&Q to “Everywhere West". From my understanding this is in accord with the car service rules. 

I remember as a youngster my first sighting of one of these whale belly big boxcars. It was on a northbound MKT freight train that originated in Oklahoma City that was headed for Parsons, Kansas. Must have been a load as the train had passed by several interchange locations with the ATSF. These cars did ramble around the country. Having one of these examples in a through freight would not be an uncommon occurrence. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Photo: URTC/Fairmont Creamery Reefer 35094

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: URTC/Fairmont Creamery Reefer 35094

A 1925 photo from the Northwest Museum of Arts & Culture:

https://ferrisarchives.northwestmuseum.org/Item/Index/1163

The Fairmont Creamery Company, founded in 1884, was one of four national dairies. With headquarters in Omaha, Nebraska, Fairmont had branches stretching from the Dakotas to Buffalo.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Nelson ,

What time of year, and what year, are you modeling?

If it is in the fall of the year, when the grain rush is on, anything goes, and car routings are out the window. Any serviciable car is used, even if it means installing a center post on double door cars to support grain doors. Double door cars in grain service, are not the norm, but did happen during rush periods.

Fall in the midwest, even into the 1960's, is a great time to model. No rules.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Tuesday, June 23, 2020, 08:16:35 AM CDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


I didn’t forget about those issues, but according to car service rules, wouldn’t shipments originating in Iowa more likely be loaded in home road cars and foreign cars having interchange with the Q? ATSF had very few if any interchanges in Iowa, considering they had only 19 miles of track in the extreme Southeastern tip of the state. Interchanges in Southeastern Iowa included CRI&P, MILW, M&StL, CGW, and Wabash. I’m not sure ATSF interchanged with the Q in Ft. Madison, but it’s likely because it seems like I remember reading the a ATSF rerouted traffic through Burlington when the Ft. Madison bridge was out of service. ATSF had its own gateway into Chicago, so it didn’t need the CB&Q. The more pertinent question is, What shipments originated on the ATSF with Southeastern Iowa destinations served by the CB&Q or on one of the roads interchanging with the CB&Q? Unless a ATSF load would pass through Burlington or have Burlington or one of my branchline towns (highly unlikely) as the final destination, I see no role for the ATSF boxcar. I can see ATSF routing cars to St. Louis or Kansas City, then Northward to Council Bluffs or Burlington, but there are more direct routings available to ATSF. My car roster is already overfilled, and I have to have a clear operational purpose for any additional cars. Hypotheticals aren’t sufficient justification for adding a car just because I like it.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io]On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

 

Nelson you forget all the manufacturing in Iowa. Think farm equipment. Large double door auto boxcars are ideal for moving farm equipment. Seems to me there was at least one farm implement plant in Burlington. Caterpillar and Case both had a plants in Burlington. Get out your Shippers Guide, you may be surprised at what you discover. Or what was manufactured in a ATSF served community that would be shipped to a local implement dealer along your mainline or branch line? Those ATSF boxcars could find their way to a team track ramp unloading manure spreaders or tractor tires or... Well hopefully you get the idea.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

mopacfirst
 

Another point that occurs to me is, how old are the cars at the date you're modeling, and are there newer ones that could hold down the dedicated service assignments?  By "old", in the case of cars like this, I mean the rebuild date.  And shippers would have been interested in whether the doors close tight, the inside is clean with not too many nails sticking out of the lining, and that it's easy to tie down or brace or block the load.

If you assume that, in that specific year, those auto parts pools or whatever get the newest and best cars, and that the market (I'm thinking the auto parts business, primarily, since both shipper and receiver were highly specific) hasn't expanded dramatically where they need anything that rolls, then older cars are probably much more likely to be found in general service. 

Furniture and appliances, and farm equipment, have a different profile where the shippers are highly specific but the receivers are much more diverse, might have a different profile of cars.  And low trades like hay, as in the example, would get whatever the yardmaster doesn't have a better purpose for.

I realize this is a highly generalized way of stating the operating practice.

Ron Merrick


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Nelson Moyer
 

I didn’t forget about those issues, but according to car service rules, wouldn’t shipments originating in Iowa more likely be loaded in home road cars and foreign cars having interchange with the Q? ATSF had very few if any interchanges in Iowa, considering they had only 19 miles of track in the extreme Southeastern tip of the state. Interchanges in Southeastern Iowa included CRI&P, MILW, M&StL, CGW, and Wabash. I’m not sure ATSF interchanged with the Q in Ft. Madison, but it’s likely because it seems like I remember reading the a ATSF rerouted traffic through Burlington when the Ft. Madison bridge was out of service. ATSF had its own gateway into Chicago, so it didn’t need the CB&Q. The more pertinent question is, What shipments originated on the ATSF with Southeastern Iowa destinations served by the CB&Q or on one of the roads interchanging with the CB&Q? Unless a ATSF load would pass through Burlington or have Burlington or one of my branchline towns (highly unlikely) as the final destination, I see no role for the ATSF boxcar. I can see ATSF routing cars to St. Louis or Kansas City, then Northward to Council Bluffs or Burlington, but there are more direct routings available to ATSF. My car roster is already overfilled, and I have to have a clear operational purpose for any additional cars. Hypotheticals aren’t sufficient justification for adding a car just because I like it.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 11:44 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

 

Nelson you forget all the manufacturing in Iowa. Think farm equipment. Large double door auto boxcars are ideal for moving farm equipment. Seems to me there was at least one farm implement plant in Burlington. Caterpillar and Case both had a plants in Burlington. Get out your Shippers Guide, you may be surprised at what you discover. Or what was manufactured in a ATSF served community that would be shipped to a local implement dealer along your mainline or branch line? Those ATSF boxcars could find their way to a team track ramp unloading manure spreaders or tractor tires or... Well hopefully you get the idea.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Douglas Harding
 

Nelson you forget all the manufacturing in Iowa. Think farm equipment. Large double door auto boxcars are ideal for moving farm equipment. Seems to me there was at least one farm implement plant in Burlington. Caterpillar and Case both had a plants in Burlington. Get out your Shippers Guide, you may be surprised at what you discover. Or what was manufactured in a ATSF served community that would be shipped to a local implement dealer along your mainline or branch line? Those ATSF boxcars could find their way to a team track ramp unloading manure spreaders or tractor tires or... Well hopefully you get the idea.

 

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

 

I should have mentioned it, but the ATSF only had 19 miles of track in Iowa, with Ft. Madison being the only town of significance on that part of the line. It’s not likely that the CB&Q would have any of these cars in their Chicago/Denver trains, and doubtful that the CB&Q K Line freights south between Burlington and St. Louis would have them either. Iowa is corn and bean country, so hay loading is doubtful. Unless I hear something more convincing, I’m going to have to pass, though I really like the car. That’s’ the down side of strict prototype modeling.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Keene via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

 

On Jun 22, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

 

Please, someone give me a reason to buy this car.

 

 

Not sure if this is of any help … but these cars did haul more than autos and auto parts. The following is from car spotting done by a young James Burke in his home town of Climax, Kansas on the ATSF Howard Branch in 1945. The Fe-7 through Fe-20 “Automobile” cars were spotted at Climax for loads.

 

5413    Fe-19   12-FEB                       loaded hay

8222    Fe-11   19-FEB                       loaded hay

8222    Fe-11   27-FEB                       not noted

67175  Fe-16   3-JUL              loaded alfalfa

7874    Fe-7                 6-JUL              loaded alfalfa

 

The Fe-7 through Fe-20 were very similar 50-ft car with the heavy steel whale belly frames. The Sunshine kits could build to any example of these classes. portions of some of these classes were in general service. Also assignments, pool services, dedicated services were revised frequently. 

 

Info on these cars can be found in the Santa Fe Rolling Stock Reference Series — Volume 3, Furniture and Automobile Box Cars, by Richard Hendrickson. 

 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Allan Smith
 


ATSF SP-OAKDALE ATSF 7937 A 10-03-52 GRAIN 50' BOX, STAGGERED DOORS
ATSF IN SOUTH BEND ATSF 7937 A 10-10-52 LMBR 50' STEEL BOX. STAGGERED DOORS

This Fe-07 was on the Sierra Railroad on the date listed.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Monday, June 22, 2020, 08:35:33 PM PDT, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:


I should have mentioned it, but the ATSF only had 19 miles of track in Iowa, with Ft. Madison being the only town of significance on that part of the line. It’s not likely that the CB&Q would have any of these cars in their Chicago/Denver trains, and doubtful that the CB&Q K Line freights south between Burlington and St. Louis would have them either. Iowa is corn and bean country, so hay loading is doubtful. Unless I hear something more convincing, I’m going to have to pass, though I really like the car. That’s’ the down side of strict prototype modeling.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Keene via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

 

On Jun 22, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

 

Please, someone give me a reason to buy this car.

 

 

Not sure if this is of any help … but these cars did haul more than autos and auto parts. The following is from car spotting done by a young James Burke in his home town of Climax, Kansas on the ATSF Howard Branch in 1945. The Fe-7 through Fe-20 “Automobile” cars were spotted at Climax for loads.

 

5413    Fe-19   12-FEB                       loaded hay

8222    Fe-11   19-FEB                       loaded hay

8222    Fe-11   27-FEB                       not noted

67175  Fe-16   3-JUL              loaded alfalfa

7874    Fe-7                 6-JUL              loaded alfalfa

 

The Fe-7 through Fe-20 were very similar 50-ft car with the heavy steel whale belly frames. The Sunshine kits could build to any example of these classes. portions of some of these classes were in general service. Also assignments, pool services, dedicated services were revised frequently. 

 

Info on these cars can be found in the Santa Fe Rolling Stock Reference Series — Volume 3, Furniture and Automobile Box Cars, by Richard Hendrickson. 

 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Nelson Moyer
 

I should have mentioned it, but the ATSF only had 19 miles of track in Iowa, with Ft. Madison being the only town of significance on that part of the line. It’s not likely that the CB&Q would have any of these cars in their Chicago/Denver trains, and doubtful that the CB&Q K Line freights south between Burlington and St. Louis would have them either. Iowa is corn and bean country, so hay loading is doubtful. Unless I hear something more convincing, I’m going to have to pass, though I really like the car. That’s’ the down side of strict prototype modeling.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Bill Keene via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 10:01 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

 

On Jun 22, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

 

Please, someone give me a reason to buy this car.

 

 

Not sure if this is of any help … but these cars did haul more than autos and auto parts. The following is from car spotting done by a young James Burke in his home town of Climax, Kansas on the ATSF Howard Branch in 1945. The Fe-7 through Fe-20 “Automobile” cars were spotted at Climax for loads.

 

5413    Fe-19   12-FEB                       loaded hay

8222    Fe-11   19-FEB                       loaded hay

8222    Fe-11   27-FEB                       not noted

67175  Fe-16   3-JUL              loaded alfalfa

7874    Fe-7                 6-JUL              loaded alfalfa

 

The Fe-7 through Fe-20 were very similar 50-ft car with the heavy steel whale belly frames. The Sunshine kits could build to any example of these classes. portions of some of these classes were in general service. Also assignments, pool services, dedicated services were revised frequently. 

 

Info on these cars can be found in the Santa Fe Rolling Stock Reference Series — Volume 3, Furniture and Automobile Box Cars, by Richard Hendrickson. 

 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Bill Keene
 

On Jun 22, 2020, at 5:37 PM, Nelson Moyer <npmoyer@...> wrote:

Please, someone give me a reason to buy this car.


Not sure if this is of any help … but these cars did haul more than autos and auto parts. The following is from car spotting done by a young James Burke in his home town of Climax, Kansas on the ATSF Howard Branch in 1945. The Fe-7 through Fe-20 “Automobile” cars were spotted at Climax for loads.

5413 Fe-19 12-FEB loaded hay
8222 Fe-11 19-FEB loaded hay
8222 Fe-11  27-FEB not noted
67175 Fe-16 3-JUL loaded alfalfa
7874 Fe-7 6-JUL loaded alfalfa

The Fe-7 through Fe-20 were very similar 50-ft car with the heavy steel whale belly frames. The Sunshine kits could build to any example of these classes. portions of some of these classes were in general service. Also assignments, pool services, dedicated services were revised frequently. 

Info on these cars can be found in the Santa Fe Rolling Stock Reference Series — Volume 3, Furniture and Automobile Box Cars, by Richard Hendrickson. 

Cheers & Happy Modeling,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



Re: Reading Reefer Photo Request

Bill Adam
 

That photo is taken looking west from the Delaware River just south of Allegheny Avenue.  The grain elevator was removed in the 1990's.


Re: Reading Reefer Photo Request

mark_landgraf
 

Guys

Thanks for the Rdg Reefer images.

Mark


On Monday, June 22, 2020, 5:37:27 PM EDT, mark_landgraf via groups.io <mark_landgraf@...> wrote:


I'm looking for a photo of a Reading Reefer class RMg with road numbers 19300-19399. These cars were built in the Reading shops during 1909 and 1910.

I would appreciate any assistance.

Thanks
Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

mark_landgraf at yahoo dot com




QUESTION ON THE ORIENTATION OF A ROYAL BRAKE REGULATOR

WILLIAM PARDIE
 


Recently I posted several request on this list for drawings of the brake orientation of a Union Pacific F-50-15 flat car.  I also contacted Exactrail who produced a very good model of this car offering to purchase the drawing.  They (understandingly) declined citing legal restraints.

My concern prior to completing the model is the orientation of the Royal brake regulator.  I have modeled this device on many Santa Fe cars as well as numerous cars from other roads.  The location has always been on the opposite  side of the center sill from the brake cylinder..  on the flat car model it is on the same side.  I would like to verify this prior to finishing one model.

Any thoughts appreciated]

Bill Pardie


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone


Re: ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

Nelson Moyer
 

I’ve been lusting after both of RCW’s new releases, but the PFE/WFE reefer shows five cars on the ORER in 1953, so I can’t justify it, especially since the rebuild program occurred in 1952. As for the auto car, according to the history notes, these cars were more or less shuttling between parts plants and assembly factories, none of which were in Iowa as far as I know. Unless somebody can provide justification as to why this car would pass through Burlington, either between Chicago and Omaha or between St. Louis and Minneapolis, I can’t justify adding it to my roster. Please, someone give me a reason to buy this car.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Tony Thompson
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 5:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] ATSF 5714 Fx 8 color photo

 

    Aaannnnnndd -  a Richard Hendrickson kitbash of FE-13, using various Athearn and other body parts.

 

 

Tony Thompson

 

 


Re: Reading Reefer Photo Request

Eric Hansmann
 

I was lucky to find the photos, Claus. Here’s the blogpost where the image first appeared. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jun 22, 2020, at 5:57 PM, Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:

Hi Eric,
 
Great image overall, from a time period not so well covered...
 
Claus Schlund


Re: ATSF 5714 Fe 8 color photo

Tom Madden
 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 04:19 PM, mel perry wrote:
also note the lack of the cross bearer
angle?
mel perry
A post-1950 mod.

Tom Madden
 


Re: ATSF 5714 Fe 8 color photo

Tom Madden
 

On Mon, Jun 22, 2020 at 04:00 PM, Andy Carlson wrote:
 
Strange that an Fe 7 would have a more modern end than an Fe 8 with its inverted Murphy corrugated end. With so many rebuilds, perhaps I should not be surprised.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
According to the Sunshine PDS there were four different types of ends applied to the various Fe-6 through Fe-20 rebuilds: inverted Murphy, inverted Dreadnought, inverted Murphy with stretcher panel, and inverted Dreadnought with stretcher panel. Again according to the PDS, they were often intermixed although all the photos in the ATSF Furniture and Automobile Box Cars book show all the "B" ends had stretcher panels. Frank has  patterns for the Murphy ends and may release a kit with those ends.

Tom Madden
 
 


Re: Reading Reefer Photo Request

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


Hi Eric,
 
Great image overall, from a time period not so well covered...
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, June 22, 2020 6:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Reading Reefer Photo Request

Here's an image with one and a half of these reefers.

That's Port Richmond, January 1928.


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On June 22, 2020 at 3:37 PM "mark_landgraf via groups.io" <mark_landgraf@...> wrote:


I'm looking for a photo of a Reading Reefer class RMg with road numbers 19300-19399. These cars were built in the Reading shops during 1909 and 1910.

I would appreciate any assistance.

Thanks
Mark Landgraf
Albany NY

mark_landgraf at yahoo dot com




 


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