Date   

Re: Perishable Schedules

al_brown03
 

Neat stuff! And needless to say, I look forward with fascination to Bill's FGE/WFEX/BREX masterwork.

That said, I used the word "northeast" narrowly, to mean the Boston-Washington corridor and New England. I'd have described the destinations Bill cites as "midwestern", including Buffalo since one got there via NKP. My New Jersey upbringing is many years in the past, but I guess it shows when I least expect it to!

The thread was originally about routings chosen by western shippers of perishables, and it's said they preferred Erie or Nickel Plate to PRR or NYC or B&O. It was countered that PRR handled a lot of perishables. I'm wondering whether PRR's perishable volume means that the preference just mentioned wasn't really all that strong, or does it mean that a lot of perishables came through gateways where there wasn't much choice? To tell, ideally one would want a gateway-by-gateway breakdown of the roads receiving perishable traffic.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I have been fortunate to scan several "Perishable Schedules"
published by the ACL, SAL, and L&N and anticipate accessing several
more including a group published by the Southern soon. I also have
one from the Charleston & Western Carolina. Many of these were loaned
to me to scan by collector and dealer Kent Hannah plus my friends
John King and Jim Singer.

All of these help draw a picture of the way Fruit Growers Express
traffic moved from the southeast to the major markets of the
northeast and upper midwest, which involved many other railroads in
addition to the B&O and PRR (this is not said to diminish the volume
of either of these RR's).

A nice example is the relatively simple schedule published by the
C&WC for train #97 which originated in Augusta, GA (with reefers
originating from the ACL, SAL and FEC) and was handed off to the
Clinchfield at Spartanburg, SC to travel behind their Challengers
(and later grey & yellow EMD F-5's) to the C&O at Elkhorn City, KY.
From here the C&O moved FGE's traffic to:

Buffalo, NY via the NKP
Charleston, VW
Chicago, IL
Cincinnati, OH
Cleveland, OH via the NKP
Detroit, MI via NYC in some cases
Flint, MI
Ft Wayne, IN via the NKP
Fostoria, OH
Grand Rapids, MI
Huntington, WV
Lansing, MI
Saginaw, MI
Toledo, OH
Toronto, ON via CP
Toronto, ON via D&TSL-GT-CN

Another example was part of the schedule from Birmingham, AL for cars
delivered by the Seaboard Airline

Lv. B'ham 7 PM Wed. via the I.C. to Ar. Chicago 11 PM Thurs.
Lv. B'ham 7:30 PM Wed. via the SL-SF to Kansas City, Ar. Thurs. 4 AM
Lv. B'ham 4 AM Thurs. via the GM&O to Memphis Ar. 8:30 PM Thurs.

Bill Welch


Re: Sale of Champ Decals

al_brown03
 

They sure are. I placed an order the first of this month, and have received it.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

Is Champ still selling their decals? I placed an online order last
month and did not get a reply. I wasn't sure if it was them or my lack
of computer skills.

Bill pardie
On Apr 5, 2010, at 11:35 AM, cvlk wrote:

The price of Champ should be based on what Walthers got for their
decal business......

....from what I understand, they offered the whole works....
screens, plates, etc... to whoever would back a truck up to the
warehouse and get rid of it for them. Presumably Whatever research
materials existed long since passed over to the manufacturing side
of WKW.
They didn't have any takers from what I've heard. The only thing of
value for a non-digital based business would be the source material
and perhaps some of the original artwork if it were scanable.

Nobody (well, I probably shouldn't make that statement... almost
nobody) in their right mind would base a venture on pen and ink
drawing of artwork for decal production today.
The costs and quality that computer-based art and processes allow
are the only viable basis for a for-profit business. Of course, we
are talking about the HOBBY Industry so the rules are apparently a
little different.....

We will see some viable tooling become boat anchors because of over-
valuation of their worth by retiring owners. There is some stuff
worth touching up (maybe so much in rolling stock) but we're going
to lose some nice building kits because of this.

Charlie Vlk

Tom Olsen wrote:
Connie has officially placed the company up for sale. If the company
is not sold, she plans to shut down completely. Hopefully someone
will buy the company as a complete shutdown would make it difficult
to letter a great many of the freight cars that we currently build.
Not always do the decals in many of the kits we buy do the job.
I couldn't agree more, Tom, but in conversations with Connie it
is clear that they do not wish to have the business professionally
valued, but are simply setting a very high price, based I guess on
their personal feelings for how great a business it is (or was). This
is common with hobby businesses, where individuals have poured a great
deal of themselves into the work and cannot conceive that it might not
be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
This is not to criticize Connie--she has labored mightily in
recent years to keep Champ alive, and is certainly entitled to every
buck she can get from the sale--but I personally doubt her pricing
ideas will find a buyer.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wine cars

Jim Lancaster
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
Chateau Martin cars ran in dedicated service from San Martin,
California (north of Hollister, south of San Jose) to New York City.
Chateau Martin cars were also used between Waterford CA and New York City. Chateau Martin had a winery in Waterford and also performed car repairs there. Another winery that shipped wine for Chateau Martin was located at Mattei on the Santa Fe Visalia District.

Jim Lancaster


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Richard Townsend
 

Well. A long conversation with Ed Hawkins showed me how misinformed I was. Many, many thanks to Ed for generously sharing his time and expertise. The plans in the 9/90 MM are inaccurate with respect to the roof (the ACF riveted roof is quite different from the Despatch roof, in ways that Ed properly says cannot reasonably be described with written words). From the side, if looking from a low level, they look like Murphy roofs, but the best I can say is that they are little like a cross between the Murphy roofs )especially near the edgw of the roof) and the Despatch roofs (especially near the center of the roof), but with an added twist along the way. My simple kitbash with the dartnaught ends and despatch roof would not be accurate for any ACF box car. Oh well. There's still plenty of cars to model with parts that will work. Thanks again to Ed, and to the others who responded as well.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Doug Harding wrote:
NYC served the many meat branch houses on the west side high line in New York City. So yes the NYC handled meat, it pretty much had the bulk of the meat traffic to Manhattan/New York City. But it could be the NYC interchanged with NKP somewhere east of Chicago. Routing was set by the shipper, or the shipper's agent, so they could have selected NKP then NYC to the west side high line.
Sure, and obviously produce as well as meat often HAD to travel on NYC or PRR just to reach its destination. My comments about PREFERENCES only reflect relative service quality, and I certainly did not mean to suggest that PRR or NYC or B&O or anyone else could be avoided ENTIRELY.
Shippers had the absolute right to select routing if they wished, and large shippers had traffic managers to do just that to the best advantage of the shipper. But many, especially smaller shippers, could and did call on their local agent for advice, and that advice would usually be to maximize home-road mileage if possible--after that it would depend on what that local agent knew about service, rates and routing to the desired destination. Agents could not be true experts on things like tariffs and routing, and sometimes might recommend something less than optimum, out of ignorance, or of course to benefit their own road if possible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

Thanks, Matt, that does nail the routing. It's similar to what we see routinely for produce reefers.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Matt Herson" <mherson@...> wrote:

Have finally located the reference to a CMWX traveling on the NP. The
citation is from Russ Strodtz from a posting on his Rail Freight Group.



"For example I've got a copy of a bill in front
of me for a CMWX car of wine. San Martin CA to Bronx NY.
No diversions involved, just a straight routing. It is
routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."

...


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

Richard: All I have specific to that question is from one wheel report filed in Missoula, MT (4 August 1969, but germane to the discussion despite the late date): CMWX 1009, load of wine, 25 tons, Train 600 (Eastbound), destination Park Junction, Minneapolis. Park Junction was the end of the line on the NP, from which yard it would likely have been handed off to any of several roads pointed east or southeast (and a couple that handled local industries). Some wheel report entries carried more information on destination beyond NP rails; unfortunately this one did not. In general, destinations for eastbound interchange traffic handled through Park Junction (primarily by way of CB&Q, Milwaukee, and Rock Island) included greater Chicago, Michigan, Quebec, New York, Pennsylvania, New England, Delaware, Maryland.

Chateau-Martin had both west and east coast operations. I note from a fascinating and informative web site (http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html) the following:

****
In February 1948, 25 tank cars of Chateau Martin wine were shipped from the Waterford winery [on SP's Oakdale Branch] to the Bronx NY.
The trade magazine Wines & Vines reported in its March 1948 issue that the record trainload carried 200,000
gallons of wine. The train left Waterford behind 2-6-0 SP1770 with 15 cars of Port, 7 cars of Muscatel and 3 cars
of Dry Red Wine. A long banner on the side of the train proclaimed:

"LARGEST TRAINLOAD OF WINES in HISTORY
CHATEAU MARTIN WINERY in CALIFORNIA to N.Y.C."

***

This says nothing about routing, but does record that west-to-east coast shipments occurred.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
.. some of these ex-Pfaudler CMWX
wine cars saw routing eastbound over the NP with loads of wine for
destination points east of the Twin Cities....

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
East of the twin cities? The only major cities east of the twin
cities are Milwaukee and Chicago, and one would think wine traffic to
those destinations which originated south of the Bay Area would have
been routed SP-UP-C&NW to Chicago, not SP-SP&S-NP via Portland and
Spokane. Unless Chateau-Martin supplied a wine wholesaler in
northern Wisconsin, and even then.... Very curious.

Richard Hendrickson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

NYC served the many meat branch houses on the west side high line in New York City. So yes the NYC handled meat, it pretty much
had the bulk of the meat traffic to Manhattan/New York City. But it could be the NYC interchanged with NKP somewhere east of
Chicago. Routing was set by the shipper, or the shipper's agent, so they could have selected NKP then NYC to the west side high
line.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Express Refrigerator Cars 1929

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

Both of the lists came out of the same official YVT file. I also noticed the differences between the two. I wish the file had more but that is all I have found. The Yakima Valley Museum has this collection and I've been helping to catalog it.

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Roger Hinman wrote:
I just did a quick comparison of the two lists and the only
differences are cars for D&RG, MDT, one lot of SLSF and the WP. I
was a bit astounded to see 50 MDT cars under control of the REA, but
the car numbers listed are bogus for 1929 . I would tend to trust
the more official looking REA list. Any more of these lists coming
from later in the 30s and 40s. Be interesting to see which road
names fall off or added and whether it correlates with other data
sources.
The car numbers shown for WP are also bogus in 1929, and in
fact the ORER for that year shows NO express reefers in either freight
or passenger entries. Makes me wonder about the entire typescript list
which is posted.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Tim O'Connor
 

I think the new Kadee 70 ton Barber S-2-B is almost exactly right
for the SP flats (the prototype had S-2-A-0 trucks, whatever those
were). The Red Caboose Barber S-2-A is a decent model too, as long
as you replace the wheels with Reboxx.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/5/2010 10:38 PM Monday, you wrote:
Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars

Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Rich,

A picture of MKT 97193 definitely shows a rectangular panel roof.

Also, be aware that there are at least two distinctly different
looking "dartnot" ends -- for example the ends on the Rock Island
cars (23000 & 24000 series) have "rolling pin" style ribs with
a rectangular top rib. But the DT&I 14000 series cars have 4/4
ribs with a tapered + flattened look with a distinctive "dimple"
along the corners, between each rib. I don't think anyone has
made this end in HO scale.

You're right the RI 24000 series have diagonal panel roofs but
I don't know about the 23000 series.

Tim O'Connor

There was a Todd Sullivan article in the Sept. 90 MM on ACF 1948 design
box cars. It talks about ACF using a "split panel" roof (as opposed to
a rectangular or diagonal panel -- similar to the "Despatch" roof) and
"dartnaught" ends on certain cars. The article specifically calls out
DT&I 14000-14299 and 14300-14549, MKT 97001-97300 and 97301-97800, and
Reading 107500-107999 and 10800 (sic) -108499. It includes plans for
MKT 92548 (which is not among those called as being of this particular
design). The photos in this article are confusing to say the least. The
title illustration has nothing to do with the subject of the article,
being ACFX 30000 a 1938 welded demonstrator car (I think). I can accept
that since I have no intention of modeling that car. But also included
in the photos are the following:

ACL 24000-24999
ATSF 33500-33999
C&EI 66300-64299 (did they count backwards?)
Erie 90500-91199
CMO 38300-39098
ITC 5700-5709
DL&W 54000-54999
RI 23000-23999 and 24000-24999
NKP 20200-20499
PRR 600000-601999 and 602000-603499
Reading ? (showing 109300)
SERX 976-1027
NJI&I 100-199
MKT 91500-92000 (again outside the series called out in the article)

Based on the photos in the article, the DL&W, NKP, SERX, and NJI&I are
not among the cars with the dartnaught ends and split panel roof. Looking
at Ed Hawkins's article in the 11/90 RMJ, it appears that the Erie cars are
out, too, as are the PRR 602000-603499. Another Ed Hawkins article, from
the 10/90 RMJ, seems to rule out others (ATSF, C&EI, ITC, and RI 24000 series)
since he says they had rectangular panel or diagonal panel roofs.

So here is my question. What 40' box cars did have the combination of split
panel roofs and dartnaught ends? I would be pleased to learn that the
RI 23000 series cars are among these.

I am contemplating building an example of these cars using Branchline dartnaught
ends and a cut-down Despatch roof from a Branchline 50' box car kit.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Andy Carlson
 

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson


Re: Wine cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Matt Herson wrote:
The citation is from Russ Strodtz from a posting on his Rail Freight Group.
"For example I've got a copy of a bill in front of me for a CMWX car of wine. San Martin CA to Bronx NY. No diversions involved, just a straight routing. It is routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."
This sounds like a shipper-specified routing. And remember that SP had a very friendly relation with NP, so that connection would have been acceptable. Why the shipper wanted a northern routing, though, is unclear, unless it was some aspect of dependable service. I've read that some routings were created specifically to solve the Chicago-handoff problem.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine cars

Matt Herson
 

Have finally located the reference to a CMWX traveling on the NP. The
citation is from Russ Strodtz from a posting on his Rail Freight Group.



"For example I've got a copy of a bill in front
of me for a CMWX car of wine. San Martin CA to Bronx NY.
No diversions involved, just a straight routing. It is
routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."



It would appear that on at least several occasions the cars were routed over
the NP but still from San Martin CA to the Bronx NY very close to Yankee
Stadium.



Matt Herson



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Wine cars





On Apr 5, 2010, at 6:03 PM, leakinmywaders wrote:

Brian: Matt Herson called it to my attention first, and since I've
seen other bits of evidence from photos and wheel reports that in
small numbers, but over many years, some of these ex-Pfaudler CMWX
wine cars saw routing eastbound over the NP with loads of wine for
destination points east of the Twin Cities....

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
East of the twin cities? The only major cities east of the twin
cities are Milwaukee and Chicago, and one would think wine traffic to
those destinations which originated south of the Bay Area would have
been routed SP-UP-C&NW to Chicago, not SP-SP&S-NP via Portland and
Spokane. Unless Chateau-Martin supplied a wine wholesaler in
northern Wisconsin, and even then.... Very curious.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: dssa boxcar

Mark
 

Tim and Gene, Thank You.

I have found something that looks similar:

http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-ajax-universal-2.html

Any suggestions?

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:34 PM







 









Gene and Mark



No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel

of a completely different size and style.



The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these

DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)

for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box

cars.



Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be

a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes

radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.



Tim O'Connor



At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer. This may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will no longer supply parts.
Gene Green
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099. They used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.
What trucks would best suit this.
Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have posted.
Sincerely, Mark Morgan


Re: Sale of Champ Decals

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Is Champ still selling their decals? I placed an online order last
month and did not get a reply. I wasn't sure if it was them or my lack
of computer skills.

Bill pardie
On Apr 5, 2010, at 11:35 AM, cvlk wrote:

The price of Champ should be based on what Walthers got for their
decal business......

....from what I understand, they offered the whole works....
screens, plates, etc... to whoever would back a truck up to the
warehouse and get rid of it for them. Presumably Whatever research
materials existed long since passed over to the manufacturing side
of WKW.
They didn't have any takers from what I've heard. The only thing of
value for a non-digital based business would be the source material
and perhaps some of the original artwork if it were scanable.

Nobody (well, I probably shouldn't make that statement... almost
nobody) in their right mind would base a venture on pen and ink
drawing of artwork for decal production today.
The costs and quality that computer-based art and processes allow
are the only viable basis for a for-profit business. Of course, we
are talking about the HOBBY Industry so the rules are apparently a
little different.....

We will see some viable tooling become boat anchors because of over-
valuation of their worth by retiring owners. There is some stuff
worth touching up (maybe so much in rolling stock) but we're going
to lose some nice building kits because of this.

Charlie Vlk

Tom Olsen wrote:
Connie has officially placed the company up for sale. If the company
is not sold, she plans to shut down completely. Hopefully someone
will buy the company as a complete shutdown would make it difficult
to letter a great many of the freight cars that we currently build.
Not always do the decals in many of the kits we buy do the job.
I couldn't agree more, Tom, but in conversations with Connie it
is clear that they do not wish to have the business professionally
valued, but are simply setting a very high price, based I guess on
their personal feelings for how great a business it is (or was). This
is common with hobby businesses, where individuals have poured a great
deal of themselves into the work and cannot conceive that it might not
be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
This is not to criticize Connie--she has labored mightily in
recent years to keep Champ alive, and is certainly entitled to every
buck she can get from the sale--but I personally doubt her pricing
ideas will find a buyer.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wine cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 5, 2010, at 6:03 PM, leakinmywaders wrote:

Brian: Matt Herson called it to my attention first, and since I've
seen other bits of evidence from photos and wheel reports that in
small numbers, but over many years, some of these ex-Pfaudler CMWX
wine cars saw routing eastbound over the NP with loads of wine for
destination points east of the Twin Cities....

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
East of the twin cities? The only major cities east of the twin
cities are Milwaukee and Chicago, and one would think wine traffic to
those destinations which originated south of the Bay Area would have
been routed SP-UP-C&NW to Chicago, not SP-SP&S-NP via Portland and
Spokane. Unless Chateau-Martin supplied a wine wholesaler in
northern Wisconsin, and even then.... Very curious.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

Brian: Matt Herson called it to my attention first, and since I've seen other bits of evidence from photos and wheel reports that in small numbers, but over many years, some of these ex-Pfaudler CMWX wine cars saw routing eastbound over the NP with loads of wine for destination points east of the Twin Cities. As Richard said, no one would question their absence. Along with a few other oddballs like wandering SCL express reefers of mail, I'd put them in the category of cars that you could put in model consist once in a great while just to raise a few eyebrows, especially if you want to bait naysayers into a discussion about what "never happened."

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Apr 5, 2010, at 8:08 AM, brianleppert@... wrote:

A Chateau Martin car was photographed at Scribner, WA (near
Marshall, near Spokane), the first car in an eastbound Spokane,
Portland & Seattle Ry. freight train. The photo appears in "The
Northwest's Own Railway, vol.1", by Walter Grande.
That's interesting, and a bit puzzling. Eastern Washington today is
a thriving wine-producing region, but in the steam era there were
hardly any wine grapes being grown there. So if that shipment
originated in California, what was its destination? Billings?
Fargo? ...


Re: LV Northeastern Caboose - HO Scale Part Availability

Bud Rindfleisch
 

Ben,
I'm not in HO scale myself, but you might look for someone who has an Overland Scale Models HO LV caboose to "borrow" to make a mold of the three tiered steps. The HO model had the cast type steps.
I don't have an accurate listing of which cabooses had fabricated three tiered steps, but more than a few did. This might be an option if you only need to do one cab.
The LVRR modeler site of the Anthracite Railroads Historical Society has some good photos of both the cast and the fabricated steps. See:
http://www.anthraciterailroads.org/lvrrmodeler/cabooses.html
In fact I believe this site lists which numbers did have the fabricated steps.
Hope this helps!
Bud Rindfleisch

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