Date   

Re: Meat reefers

William Hirt
 

The Morrell meat traffic was important enough to the CB&Q that for a number of years the president of Morrell was on the CB&Q Board of Directors. The Q originated a train at Ottumwa IA each weekday afternoon just for the Morrell traffic. As Doug knows, Morrell slaughtered cattle, hogs and sheep in Ottumwa.

Bill Hirt

On 4/8/2020 10:30 AM, Douglas Harding wrote:

The Nickle Plate handled a lot of meat because it was a fast route. Meat was time sensitive and the meat packers wanted their products delivered as quickly as possible. Out of Omaha, meat packers could choose between six different railroads to get to Omaha. All roads were given meat traffic, with each road having a specific day when they go the majority of traffic. As rates were regulated, this was how the packers kept the railroads on their toes with demands for speed. The Illinois Central was the preferred route as the IC moved the meat faster than others. The CBQ had the option of going to Peoria for eastern connections instead of Chicago. East out of Chicago, the NKP was the preferred routing for meat going to NYC or New England.

 

I am not as well versed in meat traffic east of Chicago. Attached is a spreadsheet prepared by John Greedy and Jim Singer, which shows the meat traffic east of Chicago on various roads in the 50s.

 

Doug  Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

._,_


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

np328
 

  I will agree with much/all of the information Doug has posted.  And as Eldon has stated, I find in my research, there were branch offices all over. 
Here is a photo from 1926-1928 on the NP from Billings, MT. There are two of the smaller meat houses here and quite modelable examples. 

The Armour site can be clearly seen from the street side lettering, and the arrow pointing down on the right.
The Swift house is a bit down the block at the Swift sign can be seen to the left below the arrow.  
For those interested, the camera is looking west and is a block or so west past the Billings depot.                      Jim Dick - Roseville, MN 
                                                                                                                                                             


Re: Meat reefers

Bill Keene
 

Don,

There were 11 “towns” — four were flagstops and the rest were small — along the line. The Gridley Branch — officially the Burlington District — ran from BN Jct which was four miles south of Ottawa, Kansas. From BN Jct to Gridley was 52 miles. 

Homewood (f)…  maybe 200 souls at best
Ransomville (f)… less than 100. 50 sounds like a more realistic population in town plus surrounding farms
Williamsburg (s)… around 1000
Silkville (f)…  a wide spot in the tracks with perhaps 25 in town plus a number of scattered farmsteads. Plowed ground today. 
Agricola (s)…  around 1000
Waverly (s)… around 1000
Hall’s Summit (s)… another wide spot with perhaps 25 locally plus surrounding farms
Sharpe((s)… another wide spot with perhaps 25 locally plus surrounding farms
Burlington (s)… County seat of Coffey County, population 2500
Viva (f)… population zero. Basically a grain elevator and stock pen on a double ended spur. Plowed ground today. 
Gridley (s)…  300 souls in town plus those in surrounding farms. Also End of the Line. 

The route was somewhat hill and dale over rolling farmland. Small rolls. “Tis Kansas, you know. Crops basically wheat, corn, beans, and grazing. There was an oil patch (still is) NW of Gridley. 

Checking with the latest Sanborn maps that I have for Burlington (dated 1924) it does not appear this town had a wholesale meat company. Considering that this was the largest town on the line it may be assumed that none of the other smaller towns served had a branch wholesaler either. I believe that there may have been a branch facility in Ottawa, but I have not been able to located the maps for that town today.

It would be nice to include a meat reefer on the operation of the branch line. My thought is that by the 1952-53 modeling period this service might have been taken over by trucks. 

Thanks for the thoughts. I now have more to research.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Apr 8, 2020, at 6:43 AM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io <riverman_vt@...> wrote:

    Not so fast Bill Keene. How many towns were there on your 50 mile long branch and how
many of those towns had a market that sold fresh meat? Even into the earlier days of pre-cut
and/or pre-packaged meat the packers shipped cars destined to several customers on a set
routing. The car was dropped for the first customer who unloaded his goods that were separated
from those of the next customer by wrapping paper and then the car was moved to the next 
customer. This continued until the car was empty. On occasion re-icing was required. Let's just
say that in those years people were more honest as I doubt this would work today unless all 
unloading were done under the watchful eye of the local agent, if one could still be found, and 
the car was resealed. The times are not only "achanging" they have changed drastically in 
the lives of many of us on this list and I'm not convinced that the majority of those changes 
have been for the better!

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Looking for Tom Casey

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Jared,

He was at a local op session about 3 months ago.

Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 03:41:02 PM CDT, Jared Harper <harperandbrown@...> wrote:


In  January 2017, I approached Tom Casey and offered to pay him to complete my Santa Fe coach, baggage, and caboose car 2375 that I had started scratchbuilding. (I hate to build models and this will be my only passenger car.) He said it sounded like an interesting project as he had never built a wood passenger car.  On January 30th I packed up the model, most of the building materials, and the prototype data and mailed it to him.  He received my package and e-mailed me on February 12, saying again that it looked like a fun project.  May 7, 2017, Tom e-mailed to say the model should be finished by the end of the month.  As time passed I asked Tom for another status report on July 18, 2017. Tom  finally responded by e-mail on  July 26, with 30+ photos of the model with a list of items  that still needed to be  completed. Tom and I made a connection at the October 2018 Naperville meet and he showed me the the mostly completed model.  On March 27, 2019, Tom sent an e-mail that said the model would be completed in a week or so and he would send a paint sample.  A year has passed and I haven't heard anything from Tom.  A couple of months ago I sent a registered letter tha elicited no response.

Does  anyone know what has happened to Tom Casey? I really want the coach, baggage and caboose car.  My operations are not authentic until I receive the car. 
Jared Harper
706-543-8821













































A few years back I contacted Tom Casey in Barrington, IL, to ask if I could pay him to scratchbuild a model of Santa Fe coach, baggage, and caboose car 2375.  He said he would like to do it just for the experience and he would do it gratis.  I sent him all the prototype data, and modeling materials.










Re: Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Alex and List Members,

Alex wrote: "Bottom line, without further proof the car ever ran with that paint, I would hesitate to paint a model as such"

Depending on what scale you model, you may not have to do the paint at all, see link below...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/193412933598

Claus Schlund


Curious about a billboard boxcar rather than a reefer, I did a little research.  Note there are no reporting marks.  I searched a 1927 and a 1944 Equipment Register.  No reporting marks listed for the Presto Log Company or Potlatch Lumber Co.  The car number and cubic capacity matches a W, I & M boxcar.  Oddly, the W, I & M did not show assigned reporting marks in the ER, but gives instructions for per diem payments.  An internet list of reporting marks assigns WIM to the railroad.  The same reporting marks are officially assigned to a successor company, the Washington & Idaho.  It runs on both ex-BN and WI&M track.

Bottom line, without further proof the car ever ran with that paint, I would hesitate to paint a model as such.

Alex Huff, who once worked the front end of a Budd stainless steel ATSF lunch counter diner that used an oven fired with Presto logs


Re: Meat reefers

Richard Townsend
 

Here is a quote from Swift's annual report for 1929:

"Products gathered and prepared ...  are sold by a sales organization consisting of over 450 branch selling houses, located in the large consuming centers, and more than 700 car routes which serve retailers in over 7,000 of the smaller cities and towns with direct refrigerator car shipments."

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
._,_


Re: Fruit Growers & Western Fruit Overhead Bunker Reefers—was WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Charlie Vlk
 

Interesting subject.   When I saw the photos they reminded me of the CB&Q 300-325 Express Refrigerators and the 326-329 with Cream Compartment.

Interestingly, Walthers made a model of the 326-329 that had eight roof hatches, at least on the built-up one that was on eBay.

Charlie Vlk


Re: Meat reefers

Richard Townsend
 

There is an error in the web address. It should be railsunlimited.ribbonrail.com

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR


-----Original Message-----
From: Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...>
To: main <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Wed, Apr 8, 2020 1:17 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Hi Garth and list,

I also offer a Western Pacific shippers guide from 1957, and it is $29.95, plus shipping. It can be viewed at my website railsunlimite.ribbonrail.com.


Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 11:46:24 AM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


RJ,

You need to order up a copy of Western Pacific circular 167-E from the CSRM (possibly the only original left; my photocopy cost about $60, and I haven't regretted the investment one bit). It lists EVERY customer served by the WP/SN/TS/CCT directly or regularly via team tracks, and also includes customers on the SP, UP, ATSF and a few other railroads in towns where a car might be handed off. The piece is circa 1957, based on what is there and what is missing among towns served by the SN . A look through this will tell you a lot about where meat packing or meat distribution facilities were.

For example, the WP served a Swift & Co. facility at 3rd and Clay in Oakland, with a track capacity of two cars. Apparently this was a distribution facility for packaged meat products. Just in case you have Adam Clegg's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR PICTORIAL v. 1, there is a shot of this building on page 26.

I just rambled through Sacramento in the circular and found these possible customers: WP--Valley Wholesale Groceries; SN--Lancaster Wholesale Grocery  ; SP--Armour, Swift, United Grocers, Tiedemann & McMorran (wholesale grocery); general team tracks--Maderight Sausage, Murphy Meat, Pureta Sausage. There was also a Safeway facility listed only as "produce", though I'm a bit dubious about that. There were also two packing plants at Peethill (West Sacramento) on the SN, but I think these received animals to slaughter for local sales.

So there certainly were the possibilities of Swift reefers showing up in Oakland via the WP, and both Swift and Armour in Sacramento via the SP, plus the possibility of other small mid-west packers shipping to grocers and the sausage companies either in their own marked cars, or in "Plain Jane" refrigerators.

Another intriguing refrigerator is a 4-hatch CN car on the SN at Lake Temescal in late 1956 (seen in James Harrison's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN GALLERY, page [24]). What was it doing there?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿



On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:
So it is safe to say that meat reefers were not a west coast thing, say 1930's/1940's?  I have not seen any in period pictures, but doesn't mean they didn't exist.  I have a couple of Sylvan meat reefer kits I keep wondering if I should build to run on Western Pacific/Southern Pacific consists.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Looking for Tom Casey

Jared Harper
 

In  January 2017, I approached Tom Casey and offered to pay him to complete my Santa Fe coach, baggage, and caboose car 2375 that I had started scratchbuilding. (I hate to build models and this will be my only passenger car.) He said it sounded like an interesting project as he had never built a wood passenger car.  On January 30th I packed up the model, most of the building materials, and the prototype data and mailed it to him.  He received my package and e-mailed me on February 12, saying again that it looked like a fun project.  May 7, 2017, Tom e-mailed to say the model should be finished by the end of the month.  As time passed I asked Tom for another status report on July 18, 2017. Tom  finally responded by e-mail on  July 26, with 30+ photos of the model with a list of items  that still needed to be  completed. Tom and I made a connection at the October 2018 Naperville meet and he showed me the the mostly completed model.  On March 27, 2019, Tom sent an e-mail that said the model would be completed in a week or so and he would send a paint sample.  A year has passed and I haven't heard anything from Tom.  A couple of months ago I sent a registered letter tha elicited no response.

Does  anyone know what has happened to Tom Casey? I really want the coach, baggage and caboose car.  My operations are not authentic until I receive the car. 
Jared Harper
706-543-8821













































A few years back I contacted Tom Casey in Barrington, IL, to ask if I could pay him to scratchbuild a model of Santa Fe coach, baggage, and caboose car 2375.  He said he would like to do it just for the experience and he would do it gratis.  I sent him all the prototype data, and modeling materials.










Re: Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

mel perry
 

i"d be interested in the fine print on the
left side of the car, as well as the color
scheme
mel perry


Re: Meat reefers

Ted Schnepf
 

Hi Garth and list,

I also offer a Western Pacific shippers guide from 1957, and it is $29.95, plus shipping. It can be viewed at my website railsunlimite.ribbonrail.com.


Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
126 Will Scarlet,
Elgin, Ill. 60120


847=697-5353

On Wednesday, April 8, 2020, 11:46:24 AM CDT, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...> wrote:


RJ,

You need to order up a copy of Western Pacific circular 167-E from the CSRM (possibly the only original left; my photocopy cost about $60, and I haven't regretted the investment one bit). It lists EVERY customer served by the WP/SN/TS/CCT directly or regularly via team tracks, and also includes customers on the SP, UP, ATSF and a few other railroads in towns where a car might be handed off. The piece is circa 1957, based on what is there and what is missing among towns served by the SN . A look through this will tell you a lot about where meat packing or meat distribution facilities were.

For example, the WP served a Swift & Co. facility at 3rd and Clay in Oakland, with a track capacity of two cars. Apparently this was a distribution facility for packaged meat products. Just in case you have Adam Clegg's WESTERN PACIFIC COLOR PICTORIAL v. 1, there is a shot of this building on page 26.

I just rambled through Sacramento in the circular and found these possible customers: WP--Valley Wholesale Groceries; SN--Lancaster Wholesale Grocery  ; SP--Armour, Swift, United Grocers, Tiedemann & McMorran (wholesale grocery); general team tracks--Maderight Sausage, Murphy Meat, Pureta Sausage. There was also a Safeway facility listed only as "produce", though I'm a bit dubious about that. There were also two packing plants at Peethill (West Sacramento) on the SN, but I think these received animals to slaughter for local sales.

So there certainly were the possibilities of Swift reefers showing up in Oakland via the WP, and both Swift and Armour in Sacramento via the SP, plus the possibility of other small mid-west packers shipping to grocers and the sausage companies either in their own marked cars, or in "Plain Jane" refrigerators.

Another intriguing refrigerator is a 4-hatch CN car on the SN at Lake Temescal in late 1956 (seen in James Harrison's SACRAMENTO NORTHERN GALLERY, page [24]). What was it doing there?

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿



On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 11:46 AM radiodial868 <radiodial57@...> wrote:
So it is safe to say that meat reefers were not a west coast thing, say 1930's/1940's?  I have not seen any in period pictures, but doesn't mean they didn't exist.  I have a couple of Sylvan meat reefer kits I keep wondering if I should build to run on Western Pacific/Southern Pacific consists.
--
-------------------
RJ Dial

Mendocino, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

O Fenton Wells
 

Truss rods, clear ice and bourbon, amen to that


On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:59 PM Charles Peck <lnnrr152@...> wrote:
The proportion on whisky to ice is important, too.  Really fine whisky is delivered in barrels carried in a D/S trussrod boxcar. Carefully decanted and a bit of clear ice rubbed on the outside of the glass.  Add three small cinders from a locomotive and it is ready to serve on an open observation platform.
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
So right Tony, bourbon is 100 times better over clear ice
Fenton

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:23 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund wrote:

I notice that the Armour Packing Co area has a portion of the building labeled as ‘Ice Machs’ – this makes me wonder if Armour owned the ice making equipment, and then used some portion of the ice for their own needs, and if Armour then possibly sold excess ice on a wholesale basis to Marion Ice, who perhaps in turn resold that ice on a retail basis.

     Remember that "commercial ice" was frozen as quickly as possible and accordingly contained really a lot of trapped air bubbles, making it at best translucent and often opaque and white. The ice consumers prefer to buy is frozen slowly enough for it to be clear or nearly so. Of course some consumer ice, intended for (literal) ice boxes or making ice cream, etc. can be the cloudy ice, but people would prefer not to put that into a drinking glass.

Tony Thompson





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Benjamin Hom
 

David Soderblom wrote:
"I note that the gondola to the left has the pole holders on the car’s outside.  I had thought they were inside so the pole would rest against the car’s floor."

Outside stake pockets were a common feature of early composite gons and would function as those on a flat car - here are a couple of examples from PRR and NYCS (P&LE):
PRR Class GRA

P&LE 41000-41999, NYCS Lot 253-G 


Ben Hom



Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Eric Hansmann
 

Those are great shots, Eldon.

 

Here’s a link to a 1923 GM Hopkins plat map that shows the buildings Eldon mentions. There seems to be a Morris & Co. operation across 21st Street from the Armour building.

https://arcg.is/1CfrCq0

 

I was unaware the PRR Whitehall branch went down 21st Street. That has lots of layout potential, especially for a pre-1930s era.

 

BTW, if you zoom out to view more of that map, I cannot guarantee you will accomplish anything else today. Stay hydrated while you explore an earlier Pittsburgh.

 

Or, maybe “Have a Duke!” since the brewery was on the Whitehall branch.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:06 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Eric and all;

 

The attached are from my historical research files I have worked a long time on, on the Mon Valley in and upstream of Pittsburgh.  These are from the South Side across the Mon from downtown Pittsburgh.  The first 3 are the track side of the combined retail store and wholesale Armour Meats operation.  You can still see:  the Supervisor’s cupola, office and residence, the unloading dock (although the unloading rail is missing), and retail store side.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21st Street on which I was standing.

 

The last shot is the similar Swift Meats operation, right across East Carson Street.  By this time, the small triangular unloading dock had been demolished, although you can see the doorway.  This was served by a facing switch in the middle of 21st Street. 

 

Cars for both originated out of 30th Street Yard in the upper South Side, dropped off by transfers from other local Pgh yards.  As Eric said, they were priority switching jobs.

 

Old timers told me about the switching of both plants, which tied up traffic to the annoyance of locals.  Many recalled the colorful reefers hosted at each, and how often it occurred.

 

There were similar but smaller ops upstream at Brownsville, also, and at Fairmont,  IIRC on the Monongahela Railway.

 

When shown photos of Armour and Swift reefers, folks’ faces would light up, and they’d go, “Yeah, just like that!”.

 

I don’t think many realize how prevalent this was in many locales.

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Eric Hansmann
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 12:15 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Attached is part of a Sanborn Fire Insurance map of Fairmont, W. Va. There’s an Armour branch house in the building complex on the left side. This was located on the 1.25 mile Fairmont Belt Line branch of the B&O. The B&O main can be seen in the lower right corner and the connection was just to the right off the map. Fairmont had a population around 20,000 people when this 1927 Sanborn map was created.

 

Based upon tales of former B&O yard workers, service for the Armour customer was a high priority. When a meat reefer arrived in Fairmont for this branch house, it was immediately switched to the spur.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 10:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Gang;

 

It was amazing to me when doing research on my area how many community meat wholesale operations there were, literally all over the place.  In my area, mostly Armour and Swift, but also others.  They were where the reefers arrived with sides of beef, etc., and where they processed the large pieces into smaller cuts for trucking to local butchers.  Look into this, and you may be astonished at what you find.  I was!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 9:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Not necessarily lost or misdirected. Swift, for example, had hundreds of routes that it sent individual meat reefers up, as often as daily. They would go to a central distribution warehouse for larger towns, and might make stops at individual depots or team tracks for smaller towns, where grocers or butchers would pick up their orders. One car might serve an entire branch that way. 

 

So, see? You now have dispensation to run meat reefers regularly on your Kansas branch line, prototypically.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via groups.io <
bill41@...>
To:
main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

The gift shop of the Kansas City Railroad Museum was housed in a Wilson meat reefer. It was my weekend “home” for several years. This part of my life has given me a fondness for meat reefers. 

 

Unfortunately, I model a little known Santa Fe branch line that once operated in east central Kansas. Meat reefers on this 50 miles of track would have been a rare event. Most likely if one were to arrive on the line it most surely was a very lost or somehow mis-directed car. 

 

Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

 

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>. 

Brian J. Carlson 

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:



Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

 

Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!

 


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

David Soderblom
 

I note that the gondola to the left has the pole holders on the car’s outside.  I had thought they were inside so the pole would rest against the car’s floor.



David Soderblom
Baltimore MD USA
drs@..., 410-338-4543






Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Charles Peck
 

The proportion on whisky to ice is important, too.  Really fine whisky is delivered in barrels carried in a D/S trussrod boxcar. Carefully decanted and a bit of clear ice rubbed on the outside of the glass.  Add three small cinders from a locomotive and it is ready to serve on an open observation platform.
Chuck Peck

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:30 PM O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:
So right Tony, bourbon is 100 times better over clear ice
Fenton

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:23 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund wrote:

I notice that the Armour Packing Co area has a portion of the building labeled as ‘Ice Machs’ – this makes me wonder if Armour owned the ice making equipment, and then used some portion of the ice for their own needs, and if Armour then possibly sold excess ice on a wholesale basis to Marion Ice, who perhaps in turn resold that ice on a retail basis.

     Remember that "commercial ice" was frozen as quickly as possible and accordingly contained really a lot of trapped air bubbles, making it at best translucent and often opaque and white. The ice consumers prefer to buy is frozen slowly enough for it to be clear or nearly so. Of course some consumer ice, intended for (literal) ice boxes or making ice cream, etc. can be the cloudy ice, but people would prefer not to put that into a drinking glass.

Tony Thompson





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: Meat reefers

Bill Keene
 

In my previous message (below) I mentioned that the KCRM Gift Shop was housed in a Wilson meat reefer. If the magic works there should be an attachment of a scanned slide (of questionable quality) of the WLCX 2711 at the museum. 

The car made a good gift shop. It was also the only freight car in the collection that was cleaned and waxed on a regular basis. Good old fashioned paste wax twice a year on the side shown and once a year on the side up against the KCS team track freight house. 

Enjoy.


Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:56 PM, Bill Keene via groups.io <bill41@...> wrote:

The gift shop of the Kansas City Railroad Museum was housed in a Wilson meat reefer. It was my weekend “home” for several years. This part of my life has given me a fondness for meat reefers. 

Unfortunately, I model a little known Santa Fe branch line that once operated in east central Kansas. Meat reefers on this 50 miles of track would have been a rare event. Most likely if one were to arrive on the line it most surely was a very lost or somehow mis-directed car. 

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA



On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:


Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!




Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

O Fenton Wells
 

So right Tony, bourbon is 100 times better over clear ice
Fenton

On Wed, Apr 8, 2020 at 2:23 PM Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:
Claus Schlund wrote:

I notice that the Armour Packing Co area has a portion of the building labeled as ‘Ice Machs’ – this makes me wonder if Armour owned the ice making equipment, and then used some portion of the ice for their own needs, and if Armour then possibly sold excess ice on a wholesale basis to Marion Ice, who perhaps in turn resold that ice on a retail basis.

     Remember that "commercial ice" was frozen as quickly as possible and accordingly contained really a lot of trapped air bubbles, making it at best translucent and often opaque and white. The ice consumers prefer to buy is frozen slowly enough for it to be clear or nearly so. Of course some consumer ice, intended for (literal) ice boxes or making ice cream, etc. can be the cloudy ice, but people would prefer not to put that into a drinking glass.

Tony Thompson





--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Claus Schlund wrote:

I notice that the Armour Packing Co area has a portion of the building labeled as ‘Ice Machs’ – this makes me wonder if Armour owned the ice making equipment, and then used some portion of the ice for their own needs, and if Armour then possibly sold excess ice on a wholesale basis to Marion Ice, who perhaps in turn resold that ice on a retail basis.

     Remember that "commercial ice" was frozen as quickly as possible and accordingly contained really a lot of trapped air bubbles, making it at best translucent and often opaque and white. The ice consumers prefer to buy is frozen slowly enough for it to be clear or nearly so. Of course some consumer ice, intended for (literal) ice boxes or making ice cream, etc. can be the cloudy ice, but people would prefer not to put that into a drinking glass.

Tony Thompson




Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

Eric Hansmann
 

Claus,

 

The building was originally a brewery. When Prohibition was enacted in January 1919, many brewers closed or changed their business plan. Many became cold storage facilities.

 

The details on the Sanborn map seem to indicate the spur ran under a portion of the structure that was a National Biscuit Company (Nabisco) garage.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 11:46 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Hi Eric,

 

Thanks for your insightful reply. I notice that the ‘Armour Packing Co’ building is connected to the ‘Marion Ice Co’ by what appears to be an overhead passageway, the inscription on the map appears to maybe read ‘Passage 2nd’. Obviously ice was essential to both these commercial firms.

 

Having a railroad siding pass under an overhead passage connecting two buildings would be a very model-genic scene, don’t you think?

 

I notice that the Armour Packing Co area has a portion of the building labeled as ‘Ice Machs’ – this makes me wonder if Armour owned the ice making equipment, and then used some portion of the ice for their own needs, and if Armour then possibly sold excess ice on a wholesale basis to Marion Ice, who perhaps in turn resold that ice on a retail basis.

 

Claus Schlund

 

 

 

From: Eric Hansmann

Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 2020 12:15 PM

Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Attached is part of a Sanborn Fire Insurance map of Fairmont, W. Va. There’s an Armour branch house in the building complex on the left side. This was located on the 1.25 mile Fairmont Belt Line branch of the B&O. The B&O main can be seen in the lower right corner and the connection was just to the right off the map. Fairmont had a population around 20,000 people when this 1927 Sanborn map was created.

 

Based upon tales of former B&O yard workers, service for the Armour customer was a high priority. When a meat reefer arrived in Fairmont for this branch house, it was immediately switched to the spur.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Wednesday, April 8, 2020 10:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Gang;

 

It was amazing to me when doing research on my area how many community meat wholesale operations there were, literally all over the place.  In my area, mostly Armour and Swift, but also others.  They were where the reefers arrived with sides of beef, etc., and where they processed the large pieces into smaller cuts for trucking to local butchers.  Look into this, and you may be astonished at what you find.  I was!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Richard Townsend via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, April 7, 2020 9:30 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

 

Not necessarily lost or misdirected. Swift, for example, had hundreds of routes that it sent individual meat reefers up, as often as daily. They would go to a central distribution warehouse for larger towns, and might make stops at individual depots or team tracks for smaller towns, where grocers or butchers would pick up their orders. One car might serve an entire branch that way. 

 

So, see? You now have dispensation to run meat reefers regularly on your Kansas branch line, prototypically.

Richard Townsend

Lincoln City, OR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Keene via groups.io <bill41@...>
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Tue, Apr 7, 2020 2:56 pm
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Meat reefers

The gift shop of the Kansas City Railroad Museum was housed in a Wilson meat reefer. It was my weekend “home” for several years. This part of my life has given me a fondness for meat reefers. 

 

Unfortunately, I model a little known Santa Fe branch line that once operated in east central Kansas. Meat reefers on this 50 miles of track would have been a rare event. Most likely if one were to arrive on the line it most surely was a very lost or somehow mis-directed car.

 

Cheers,

Bill Keene

Irvine, CA

 

 

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 2:40 PM, Brian Carlson via groups.io <prrk41361@...> wrote:

 

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>.

Brian J. Carlson

 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:



Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

 

 

Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 

 

 

Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!

 

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