Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Very interesting, Clark.  Are you saying these were all gons?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Clark Propst
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 2:11 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.

RR

NO_

SERIES

TYPE1

CARGO

DATE

CB&Q

190672

190000-191749

HM

sand

10/2/59

CB&Q

192362

192000-193199

HM

sand

9/4/59

DTI

7023

7000-7299

GBS

sand

9/2/59

GN

74989

74500-74999

GS

sand       

"9-11-50"

IC

93646

92000-93749

HM

sand       

"7-28-50"

M&StL

30487

30001-30499

GS

sand

7/15/59

M&StL

65181

65001-65255

HM

sand

4/25/59

M&StL

66013

66001-66499

HT

sand       

"7-15-48"

M&StL

70005

700003-70017

LO

sand

6/19/59

WAB

37263

37000-37799

HM

sand

8/14/59

WAB

37552

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/28/59

WAB

37786

37000-37799

HM

sand

9/30/59


Re: Photo: PFE/WP Reefer With Load Of Wines & Cordials

Tony Thompson
 

Bob Chaparro  wrote:

Photo: PFE/WP Reefer With Load Of Wines & Cordials

An undated photo (Reweigh date 2-1932) from the Louisiana Digital Library:

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/hnoc-clf%3A7204

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and scroll.


    Clearly a post-Prohibition photo, so we know the earliest it can be dated!

Tony Thompson




Photo: PFE/WP Reefer With Load Of Wines & Cordials

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: PFE/WP Reefer With Load Of Wines & Cordials

An undated photo (Reweigh date 2-1932) from the Louisiana Digital Library:

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/hnoc-clf%3A7204

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and scroll.

The car was built in 1924. Notice the recently discussed star next to the Load Limit stencil.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

All;

 

Reason I ask is, I am aware of several customers that wanted specific cars (classes) for their use, and got their way. And this is related to why they did not want sand in box cars or gons.

 

For instance, Mississippi Glass (later Corning) wanted dedicated H30 and H32, for their use in glass sand shipment.

 

They later got very insistent that they get dedicated H34 (PS-2’s), which my guess was related to contamination and possibly also water contamination.

 

There were also various foundries that asked for certain types of car, for either “foundry sand”, or “green sand”.

 

They got all this from different sources, so it is important to our knowledge of freight cars, where they went, and why.

 

Thanks again, Schuyler!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Well, I said . . . “and probably further distinctions can be made of each . . .”

 

So, a fair question Elden, but Google is your (and my) friend:

 

Foundry sand is quite interesting:

Blockedhttps://www.solexthermal.com/resources/articles/what-is-foundry-sand/

This page mentions “green sand” which it defines as Green Sand is silica sand.  Googling “green sand” gets you to what is apparently a literally green-colored sand for use in landscaping.  But that’s not what we’re talking about.,

 

Glass sand

Blockedhttps://www.sand.org/page/Glass_Production

a quite interesting page.  Click o “Industrial Sand” at the top of the page.   There are several basic materials that can be the constituent parts of glass sand, including quartz, lava, and desert sand.  Also click on “Research” for more interesting considerations.

 

Locomotive sand gets you to this page:

Blockedhttps://www.kremersand.com/specific-applications/railway-sand

which includes a de facto definition: a mixture of calibrated sand in various grain sizes, which is spread between the train wheels and the tracks.

 

As to shipment and rail cars used . . . well, my work here is done.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Schuyler;

 

From my research and experiences, there were some in my area that were important:  foundry sand, glass sand, “green” sand, and locomotive sand.

 

What were the properties that were important to those uses, and how would this affect shipment and cars used?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each).  There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action.  I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away.

The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water.  Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure.  I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
BlockedBlockedhttp://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Photo: Boxcar Underframe

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Boxcar Underframe

An undated photo from the Tulane University Digital Library:

https://digitallibrary.tulane.edu/islandora/object/tulane:327

The reference is to the flood in Pueblo, CO, so the year would be 1921.

Is it just me or do the two longitudinal frame members seem spaced unusually far apart?

By the way, that was a really bad flood:

https://groups.io/g/RailroadCitrusIndustryModelingGroup/message/605?p=,,,20,0,0,0::Created,,flood,20,2,0,32651119

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Various Boxcars

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Various Boxcars

An undated photo from the Tulane University Digital Library:

https://digitallibrary.tulane.edu/islandora/object/tulane:9872

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and scroll.

The nearest cut of boxcars from Southern, Canadian Pacific, Northern Pacific and Union Pacific can be view with some detail.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: GATX/Union Carbide Tank Car 73614

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: GATX/Union Carbide Tank Car 73614

A 1965 photo from the Louisiana Digital Library:

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/hnoc-clf%3A10064

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and scroll.

I believe this car was built in 1959.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: IC Refrigerator Car 65370

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: IC Refrigerator Car 65370

An undated photo from the Louisiana Digital Library:

https://louisianadigitallibrary.org/islandora/object/state-lhp%3A7624

This photo can be enlarged quite a bit. Click on the photo and scroll.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Clark Propst
 

Below are some examples of sand cars. Beings this is an M&StL list there were lots of their GS gons. I only copied one.


RR NO_ SERIES TYPE1 CARGO DATE
CB&Q 190672 190000-191749 HM sand 10/2/59
CB&Q 192362 192000-193199 HM sand 9/4/59
DTI 7023 7000-7299 GBS sand 9/2/59
GN 74989 74500-74999 GS sand        "9-11-50"
IC 93646 92000-93749 HM sand        "7-28-50"
M&StL 30487 30001-30499 GS sand 7/15/59
M&StL 65181 65001-65255 HM sand 4/25/59
M&StL 66013 66001-66499 HT sand        "7-15-48"
M&StL 70005 700003-70017 LO sand 6/19/59
WAB 37263 37000-37799 HM sand 8/14/59
WAB 37552 37000-37799 HM sand 9/28/59
WAB 37786 37000-37799 HM sand 9/30/59


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Eric Hansmann
 

Frac sand? Is that from the future?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 12:56 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Youi gize are just full of questions:

 

Frac Sand:

https://www.blackmountainsand.com/resources/what-is-frac-sand/

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Well, I said . . . “and probably further distinctions can be made of each . . .”

 

So, a fair question Elden, but Google is your (and my) friend:

 

Foundry sand is quite interesting:

https://www.solexthermal.com/resources/articles/what-is-foundry-sand/

This page mentions “green sand” which it defines as Green Sand is silica sand.  Googling “green sand” gets you to what is apparently a literally green-colored sand for use in landscaping.  But that’s not what we’re talking about.,

 

Glass sand

https://www.sand.org/page/Glass_Production

a quite interesting page.  Click o “Industrial Sand” at the top of the page.   There are several basic materials that can be the constituent parts of glass sand, including quartz, lava, and desert sand.  Also click on “Research” for more interesting considerations.

 

Locomotive sand gets you to this page:

https://www.kremersand.com/specific-applications/railway-sand

which includes a de facto definition: a mixture of calibrated sand in various grain sizes, which is spread between the train wheels and the tracks.

 

As to shipment and rail cars used . . . well, my work here is done.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Schuyler;

 

From my research and experiences, there were some in my area that were important:  foundry sand, glass sand, “green” sand, and locomotive sand.

 

What were the properties that were important to those uses, and how would this affect shipment and cars used?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each).  There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action.  I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away.

The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water.  Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure.  I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
Blockedhttp://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarghh!!

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Andy Carlson
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:54 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

So Schuyler, you are telling me Grannie was wrong to call her Beverly Hills' swimming pool "The Cement Pond"?????

 

Showing my age---Andy Carlson

Ojai CA

 

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Youi gize are just full of questions:

 

Frac Sand:

https://www.blackmountainsand.com/resources/what-is-frac-sand/

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:52 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Well, I said . . . “and probably further distinctions can be made of each . . .”

 

So, a fair question Elden, but Google is your (and my) friend:

 

Foundry sand is quite interesting:

https://www.solexthermal.com/resources/articles/what-is-foundry-sand/

This page mentions “green sand” which it defines as Green Sand is silica sand.  Googling “green sand” gets you to what is apparently a literally green-colored sand for use in landscaping.  But that’s not what we’re talking about.,

 

Glass sand

https://www.sand.org/page/Glass_Production

a quite interesting page.  Click o “Industrial Sand” at the top of the page.   There are several basic materials that can be the constituent parts of glass sand, including quartz, lava, and desert sand.  Also click on “Research” for more interesting considerations.

 

Locomotive sand gets you to this page:

https://www.kremersand.com/specific-applications/railway-sand

which includes a de facto definition: a mixture of calibrated sand in various grain sizes, which is spread between the train wheels and the tracks.

 

As to shipment and rail cars used . . . well, my work here is done.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Schuyler;

 

From my research and experiences, there were some in my area that were important:  foundry sand, glass sand, “green” sand, and locomotive sand.

 

What were the properties that were important to those uses, and how would this affect shipment and cars used?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each).  There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action.  I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away.

The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water.  Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure.  I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
Blockedhttp://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Andy Carlson
 

So Schuyler, you are telling me Grannie was wrong to call her Beverly Hills' swimming pool "The Cement Pond"?????

Showing my age---Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, I said . . . “and probably further distinctions can be made of each . . .”

 

So, a fair question Elden, but Google is your (and my) friend:

 

Foundry sand is quite interesting:

https://www.solexthermal.com/resources/articles/what-is-foundry-sand/

This page mentions “green sand” which it defines as Green Sand is silica sand.  Googling “green sand” gets you to what is apparently a literally green-colored sand for use in landscaping.  But that’s not what we’re talking about.,

 

Glass sand

https://www.sand.org/page/Glass_Production

a quite interesting page.  Click o “Industrial Sand” at the top of the page.   There are several basic materials that can be the constituent parts of glass sand, including quartz, lava, and desert sand.  Also click on “Research” for more interesting considerations.

 

Locomotive sand gets you to this page:

https://www.kremersand.com/specific-applications/railway-sand

which includes a de facto definition: a mixture of calibrated sand in various grain sizes, which is spread between the train wheels and the tracks.

 

As to shipment and rail cars used . . . well, my work here is done.

 

Schuyler

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Gatwood, Elden J SAD
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:19 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

Schuyler;

 

From my research and experiences, there were some in my area that were important:  foundry sand, glass sand, “green” sand, and locomotive sand.

 

What were the properties that were important to those uses, and how would this affect shipment and cars used?

 

Thanks!

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Schuyler Larrabee via groups.io
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 1:08 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

 

There are two varieties of sand (and probably further distinctions can be made of each).  There’s beach sand, which is rounded grains (also what’s in the Sahara desert) from the wave (and wind) action.  I would surmise that variety of sand would need to be covered so it doesn’t blow away.

The other variety is angular sand, which comes from (typically) sand pits away from water.  Angular sand is required for use in concrete, as it will lock together with the cement matrix to form a solid durable structure.  I would guess that angular sand >might< be shipped without being covered as it would be less likely to blow away in transit.

 

And at this point I will point out one of my pet issues with the distinction between concrete and cement.  Cement is an element in making concrete.  Cement is not, directly, concrete.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 08, 2020 10:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
Blockedhttp://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: Photo: IC Boxcar 340844 & Others

Bob Chaparro
 

There are additional photos on the website showing temporary housing in freight cars due to the flooding.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Hauling Sand before Covered Hoppers Became Popular

Andy Laurent
 

In Wisconsin, GB&W moved sand and gravel in open twin hoppers from online pits to a concrete batch plant in Green Bay well into the 1960s.  WSOR still does this today, moving both sand and gravel in open hoppers (until a couple years ago in railroad-owned conversions of 1958 cu ft LO's - similar to the new Bowser kit) from a pit north of Janesville to concrete plants in Burke, Middleton, and Monroe.

Andy L.
Madison WI


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Eric Mumper
 

Victor,

As mentioned in another reply it depends on the end use.  The linked picture was taken at Utica, Ill. on the Rock Island and shows how foundry sand was shipped well into the covered hopper era.  This plant also produced high grade sand for glass which is ideal for covered hoppers.  This sand was so fine that bulk loading in a boxcar could result in much less reaching the destination - the stuff pours like water.  The few pictures I have seen in earlier times are mostly gons and quite probably bags loaded into boxcars.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/eP1Cjx5N6eqxh2GE9

Eric Mumper


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Charles Morrill
 

The SP's El Paso steam era sand house received locomotive sand in ordinary SP GS class gons.  Weather was not a factor as the sand was dried in the sand house before being blown up into the delivery bins.

Charlie 


From: "reporterllc via groups.io" <reporterllc@...>
To: "main" <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 9:17:06 PM
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

Eric Hansmann
 

It depends on how the sand will be used. Lots of sand for glass factories moved in boxcars, even into the mid-1960s. Clean sand was required for good quality glass. Impurities in the sand led to imperfections in the final product. Keep in mind the covered hoppers initially moved cement as they came into use.

 

Large plate glass operations most likely received covered hopper loads for the quantities needed in the post-WW2 years. These larger plants had receiving areas to ease material transfer from a covered hopper to interior storage. Smaller tableware glass operations had fewer inbounds to facilities that lacked modern material transfer elements.

 

Years ago a friend told me he worked at a glass factory in Weston, W. Va., circa early 1960s. I asked about inbound sand. He only recalled boxcars for the deliveries. Unloading was with a flat scoop and wheelbarrow. A full wheelbarrow would be navigated across a plank bridging the boxcar with the dock door. The load would be wheeled to an interior materials bin and dumped. The process was repeated until the car was unloaded.

 

I’ve reviewed many West Virginia glass factory images over the years. Some plants had covered trackside materials bins for sand unloading, still with the shovel. Some plants had a pit between the track and building with an auger to pull material into the building. A metal plate would cover this when not in use. Again, the sand would be hand-shoveled into the pit. Many operations were not upgraded in the post-WW2 years so this labor-intensive work continued to the close of operations. As plastics took over many outlets for glass production, these plants struggled along with fewer jobs before closing.

 

How sand was delivered would have probably been by customer request. If a lumberyard, concrete operation, or foundry needed clean sand, then it would have been delivered in an enclosed car. If impurities were not an issue, then an open gondola would work. Either way, I’m certain some of the load would be lost in transit if it wasn’t delivered in a covered hopper.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of reporterllc via groups.io
Sent: Monday, June 8, 2020 9:17 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Hauling Sand before Coverd Hoppers Became Popular

 

What kind of car was used? I am referring to bulk sand from a pit that ships out sand and gravel. Perhaps this sand would not be that specialized. Wouldn't it need to be protected from the weather? On a side note, In the early 1970s (long after covered hoppers became popular) I remember a tower operator referring to an ancient gondola in a consist loaded with sand. I did not see it and wondered if it was covered.

Victor A. Baird
http://www.erstwhilepublications.com


Re: Train Station Products

Nelson Moyer
 

I found the TSP product catalog online and at the bottom is this note:

 

Train Station Products' are not sold directly to the retail public.

Please contact your local hobby store.

Note: All diesel engine parts (fans, truck sideframes, etc.) which

were manufactured an sold by Train Station Products' in the past

(Kit #20 through Kit #145) are now being manufacturered and sold

by Smokey Valley Railroad Products. The kit numbers have

remained the same with the exception of four (4) kits. Train Station

Products Kits #20, #98, #100, and #132 are now Smokey Valley

Railroad Products Kits #320, #398, #300, and #332, respectively.

 

I think that says it all, typo and misspelling included.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Dan Miller
Sent: Friday, June 05, 2020 8:23 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Train Station Products

 

I made an order with Tom Scheid of NKP Car a few months ago, which included some Train Station Products passenger car core kits.  I asked about  an out-of-stock TSP product, and for contact information so I could get in touch with TSP directly, but Tom said that the owner at TSP "doesn't like to be contacted by customers."  As far as I know, there is no way to order directly from TSP.  I'd suggest getting in touch with a company that supplies TSP products to help you out.  From what I could tell, TSP is still manufacturing product.

 

Dan Miller

 

On Fri, Jun 5, 2020 at 6:15 PM Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:

Yeah, I saw that but that's just a little bit of what they made.  I guess I was wondering if they had a website to order direct from.

Scott McDonald 

 

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