Date   

Open Top loads

Douglas Harding
 

In response to Tony's question, and to share with everyone, I have created a
folder in the Op Sig group files section titled "AAR open top car loading
rules"
This may be found at
https://groups.io/g/Ry-ops-industrialSIG/files/AAR%20Car%20Codes/AAR%20Open%
20Top%20Car%20Loading%20Rules

In it I have uploaded copies of the AAR booklets for Rules Governing loading
open top cars, which I recently acquired.

Section 1 Rules 1988
Section 2 Loading Pipe 1987
Section 3 Road Farm Equipment 1987
Section 4 Misc Machinery 1987
Section 5 Forest Products 1983 & 1987 (1983 version has more pages)
Section 6 DOD Military 1984
Section 7 TOFC Containers 1987

They were scanned, creating searchable pdfs, totaling about 190mb.

This will not answer Tony's questions about hoppers and covered hoppers, but
should give an excellent idea of what was transported in gons. More
important these booklets have drawings showing the proper way to load and
secure a wide variety of loads. Great for modeling ideas.

If you are not able to access the Op Sig group files, let me know. I can
load them to the this group files.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

Visit our extended files area at: https://groups.io/g/OPS-INDfiles


Re: New Resin Car Works mini-kit

Ken Soroos
 

Hi Eric -

Looking over this post on the website, I noticed that Ted Culotta is listed as having done the decals.  I actually did them for the IC car this time.

Ken

On Dec 14, 2019, at 7:10 AM, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Resin Car Works has released a new HO scale mini-kit to build an Illinois Central single-sheathed boxcar. Kit details are featured in our latest blog post.



Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy



Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Mont Switzer
 

My apologies to the STMF group for the trucking stuff in this message. I didn't know that response was going to the entire group.

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Monday, December 16, 2019 8:02 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Cc: William Darnaby <wdarnaby@...>; Tim Bachus <lvc420@...>; Ron Marquardt <marquardt@...>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

Ron,

We ran into the rider caboose issue when modeling the Transfer at Monon. When/how were the rider cars moved to the Transfer house for loading of LCL before going out on locals?

I asked Cookie and he told me they never did use the "baggage" end of the rider cars for LCL. LCL was loaded in clean dry boxcars, preferably with doors that worked easily.

Every time I looked in one of the rider cars the "baggage" end was full of tools of the trade: cables, re-railers, knuckles and assorted junk. One wag even had an overstuffed reclining easy chair strategically located near the large door opening. Tough duty.

After the recliner episode I thought I had seen it all until one was removed from a conventional GMC (small day cab) semi-tractor at Bender & Loudon Motor Freight, Inc. I still don't know how the driver assigned to the tractor got it in there because the shop had a hell of a time getting it out. Company policy was only one seat per tractor and it was reserved for the driver.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Penny Simunic
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:38 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

Monon rider car. Used in Indiana to allow LCL shipments. Also to accommodate the extra conductor, for extra crewman in Indiana. Not sure how it ended up out West. In later years used as tool car.
RonS


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Mont Switzer
 

Bill Darnaby's explanation of the SP&S Alco RS and what the Monon called:

1. rider cars
2. head end cabooses

Is spot on. The rider cars, a total of 8 were built on low side stone gon frames.

These gons, built by Pullman Standard in Michigan City in 1926. Other than their all wood interiors which were required for cut stone loading the riveted steel portions were virtually indestructible. In addition to the head end cabooses these frames were used to make ten 40 ft. flat cars, 40 piggy-back flats, upwards of 30 coke racks, and countless company service cars of all sizes and shapes. Some cars even survived as built in MofW service until the L&N merger in 1971.

A recent review of disposition (destroyed due to damage) records for these cars seem to indicate that In the steam era they could be seen all over the eastern half of the USA almost certainly hauling cut limestone to large building projects. This was back in the day when many large building projects had a temporary rail siding built right up to the job site. Others had draymen moving the cut stone pieces to the job sites.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Craig Zeni
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 3:48 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car


On Dec 15, 2019, at 3:31 PM, main@RealSTMFC.groups.io wrote:

6a. Odd (to me) Monon car
From: spsalso <Edwardsutorik@...>
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 2019 15:15:11 EST

In the slide below, there's an odd looking Monon car just behind the loco. Photo was taken at Salem, Oregon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Duplicate-Slide-SP-S-Spokane-Portland-Seattle-ALCO-RS2-64-W-Train-Salem-OR/401998668873?hash=item5d98fce449:g:WpkAAOSwzNFd9eyG

I'm curious what the car is and why it was in Oregon.

Any opinions?

Ed
Not opinion, but fact...it's not Oregon. It's Salem, Indiana. The Monon leased a few SP&S RS-2s in the 1960s. The odd car is what's called a Rider Caboose...a 'front end' caboose was required by Indiana state law for trains longer than 65 cars.

Forgot to sign the first one...


Craig Zeni
Cary NC


MONON gon spiral end

Douglas Harding
 


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Mont Switzer
 

Ron,

We ran into the rider caboose issue when modeling the Transfer at Monon. When/how were the rider cars moved to the Transfer house for loading of LCL before going out on locals?

I asked Cookie and he told me they never did use the "baggage" end of the rider cars for LCL. LCL was loaded in clean dry boxcars, preferably with doors that worked easily.

Every time I looked in one of the rider cars the "baggage" end was full of tools of the trade: cables, re-railers, knuckles and assorted junk. One wag even had an overstuffed reclining easy chair strategically located near the large door opening. Tough duty.

After the recliner episode I thought I had seen it all until one was removed from a conventional GMC (small day cab) semi-tractor at Bender & Loudon Motor Freight, Inc. I still don't know how the driver assigned to the tractor got it in there because the shop had a hell of a time getting it out. Company policy was only one seat per tractor and it was reserved for the driver.

Mont

Montford L. Switzer
President
Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.
Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.
mswitzer@...
(765) 836-2914

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Penny Simunic
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 5:38 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

Monon rider car. Used in Indiana to allow LCL shipments. Also to accommodate the extra conductor, for extra crewman in Indiana. Not sure how it ended up out West. In later years used as tool car.
RonS


Re: Photo: NKP Boxcar 27664

Ray Breyer
 

Nice shot! I need to work it into an article at some point.

NKP 27664 was one of 1,000 cars built for the NKP by Haskell & Barker in 1908. A basic Vanderbilt syndicate car design, it was one of 4,300 identical boxcars built for the NKP in 1907 and 1908 (the largest single group of identical freight cars owned by that road).

Originally an all-wood car, it was rebuilt in the early 1920s with a Hutchins roof, I-beam crash posts on the ends, and a steel center sill underframe. The car is also wearing its third lettering scheme.

The cars were all retired by 1939 by the NKP, but several hundred were retained for the road's MOW fleet. Several hundred more were sold to Hyman-Michaels, who sold them to several small roads just before WWII. The largest group, 300 cars, went to the M&StL. That road re-sold several to other roads, including the ITC, NdeM, and US Army (for use in munition plants).

Up to four of these cars still survive. One is a stablemate of NKP 765, one is in the collection of the recently-imploded railroad museum in Noblesville IN, and two of the former M&StL cars MAY still survive as part of the Boone & Scenic RR's collection in Iowa.

I wrote a lengthy article on the NKP's wood boxcar fleet for the Winter 2014 issue of the Nickel Plate Road Magazine, and a modeling article on the 25000s in the June 2015 issue of the Nickel Plate Road Modeler's Notebook. The decals for these cars available from RCW were based on my research and the art talent of Dr. Dave Campbell.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Sunday, December 15, 2019, 04:28:54 PM CST, lrkdbn via Groups.Io <lrkdbn@...> wrote:


Another car I've been looking for! Ray Breyer at the NKP group knows a lot about these cars,and the NKPHTS
modeler's on line magazine has articles. Decals can be had from Resin Car Works.
Larry King


Odd (to me) Monon car

Andy Carlson
 

Lacking a freight car (my apologies) though a wooden head end car, here is another SP&S RS 2 #64 in Indiana. Taken in 1966.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




On Sunday, December 15, 2019, 12:15:18 PM PST, spsalso via Groups.Io <edwardsutorik@...> wrote:


In the slide below, there's an odd looking Monon car just behind the loco.  Photo was taken at Salem, Oregon.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Duplicate-Slide-SP-S-Spokane-Portland-Seattle-ALCO-RS2-64-W-Train-Salem-OR/401998668873?hash=item5d98fce449:g:WpkAAOSwzNFd9eyG

I'm curious what the car is and why it was in Oregon.

Any opinions?



Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

william darnaby
 

Actually, the Monon leased two of the SP&S engines while the Monon was upgrading their own nine engines (2 at a time) with new prime movers and improved electrical gear to make them more compatible with the 628’s so one could be run as a sandwich between two 628’s to create a HP/tractive effort combination more appropriate for Monon conditions.

 

The first 4 of these rider cars were built in ’46 and saw service behind steam.  The second 4 were built in ‘52 after converted troop kitchen cars were considered unsatisfactory in this service.  All were built on cut limestone service flats…actually low side composite gons…from the 20’s.  The Monon had 500 of these gons at one time but the Depression kind of killed that type of construction except for some government buildings.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Dave Strahlendorf
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 3:53 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

 

Yeah, that slide is mis-labeled. That is not on SP&S rails, but on the Monon. The Monon faced a power shortage in 1966 due to their return of several Alco C628s to the manufacturer, and had to lease these SP&S engines until Alco could produce the 628s replacement.

 

The car trailing the locomotive is a 'Rider' car that was required by State Law for 'locals' exceeding a certain size. These were home built by the Monon at the Lafayette, Indiana Shops Mont Switzer can provide a more thorough description of these cars. 

 

In HO, at one time they were offered by Overland Models.

 

Dave Strahlendorf

Erlanger, Ky


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

william darnaby
 

In the late 60’s I took a photo of one of the B&O’s cars in Indianapolis made from an M26.  It had a side step for the door and caboose grab and ladder type equipment.  Other roads just used an extra caboose at the head end.  Some extended the steam engine cab for the extra seat and a notable one had a tender dog house.  The Monon and NKP found it useful to have the boss at the head end on locals and made cars for that because it was handy to have the conductor right there when the engine stopped at the depot to see the agent, particularly when the train had some length.  Saved walking or backing and forthing.

 

Bill Darnaby

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Seth Lakin via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, December 15, 2019 6:32 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Odd (to me) Monon car

 

Craig wrote:” a 'front end' caboose was required by Indiana state law for trains longer than 65 cars.”


Not exactly, Indiana’s full crew law stated
”It shall be unlawful for any carrier to operate a freight train consisting of seventy (70) cars or more, without a crew of competent employees, which crew shall consist of not less than one (1) engineer, one (1) fireman, one (1) conductor, one (1) flagman, and two (2) brakemen.”

The law did not specify a head end caboose. But the Monon and NKP utilized such cars. The NKP cars were converted from 36’ wood sided boxcars. The NYC had almost identical but the NYC used them in transfer and terminal service.


Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN


Re: West India Fruit & Steamship Company Historic Film

mel perry
 

well that explsins all.the double handling
shown in the.video, problem still.exsists
today on the west coast, that's the main
reason, why tbe port of portland.no
longer exists, with everything.being
trucked to the ports in seattle or tacoma,
cut off the nose to spite the face
mel perry

On Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 5:08 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Ships -

Don, you may find some of the ships on-line.

Before West India Fruit and Steamship Company, Seatrain Lines (the operating name for the Over-Seas Shipping Company) shipping by using entire loaded rail cars between ports in the United States and Havana, Cuba, with the first shipment in December 1928 aboard a specially designed ship, Seatrain. This original ship, later renamed Seatrain New Orleans, was capable of carrying 95 fully loaded rail cars.

The company built two larger specialized ships in 1932, Seatrain New York and Seatrain Havana with greater rail car capacity. In 1939 two more ships were added, Seatrain Texas and Seatrain New Jersey.

The original 1928 shipment aboard Seatrain caused a labor issue that foretold similar issues later with container ships when Cuban stevedores demanded that they not only unload the rail cars from the ship but unload and repack the rail car contents before turning the cars over to Cuban railways.

In 1951 Seatrain Lines added two additional railcar carriers, the Seatrain Georgia and Seatrain Louisiana. That year Seatrain also ceased operations to and from Cuba, and renamed its ship Seatrain Havana to Seatrain Savannah to reflect the suspension of service. In 1953 Seatrain sold its operating authority to trade between the US and Cuba to the West India Fruit and Steamship Company, along with its first ship, the Seatrain New Orleans, which was renamed Sea Level. West India Fruit & Steamship Company already had been in operation from 1946.


Re: West India Fruit & Steamship Company Historic Film

Bob Chaparro
 

Ships -

Don, you may find some of the ships on-line.

Before West India Fruit and Steamship Company, Seatrain Lines (the operating name for the Over-Seas Shipping Company) shipping by using entire loaded rail cars between ports in the United States and Havana, Cuba, with the first shipment in December 1928 aboard a specially designed ship, Seatrain. This original ship, later renamed Seatrain New Orleans, was capable of carrying 95 fully loaded rail cars.

The company built two larger specialized ships in 1932, Seatrain New York and Seatrain Havana with greater rail car capacity. In 1939 two more ships were added, Seatrain Texas and Seatrain New Jersey.

The original 1928 shipment aboard Seatrain caused a labor issue that foretold similar issues later with container ships when Cuban stevedores demanded that they not only unload the rail cars from the ship but unload and repack the rail car contents before turning the cars over to Cuban railways.

In 1951 Seatrain Lines added two additional railcar carriers, the Seatrain Georgia and Seatrain Louisiana. That year Seatrain also ceased operations to and from Cuba, and renamed its ship Seatrain Havana to Seatrain Savannah to reflect the suspension of service. In 1953 Seatrain sold its operating authority to trade between the US and Cuba to the West India Fruit and Steamship Company, along with its first ship, the Seatrain New Orleans, which was renamed Sea Level. West India Fruit & Steamship Company already had been in operation from 1946.


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Seth Lakin
 

Craig wrote:” a 'front end' caboose was required by Indiana state law for trains longer than 65 cars.”


Not exactly, Indiana’s full crew law stated
”It shall be unlawful for any carrier to operate a freight train consisting of seventy (70) cars or more, without a crew of competent employees, which crew shall consist of not less than one (1) engineer, one (1) fireman, one (1) conductor, one (1) flagman, and two (2) brakemen.”

The law did not specify a head end caboose. But the Monon and NKP utilized such cars. The NKP cars were converted from 36’ wood sided boxcars. The NYC had almost identical but the NYC used them in transfer and terminal service.


Seth Lakin
Michigan City IN


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

spsalso
 

Ask a question--get an answer.

Wow!

And thanks to all.  Very interesting.  Though not as interesting as it would have been in Oregon.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: West India Fruit & Steamship Company Historic Film

Guy Wilber
 


Ed wrote:

"The rail traffic to Cuba, as with Mexico, was mainly in US owned cars.
However new cars built in the US for the Consolidated Railways of Cuba, National of Mexico or other foreign railroads using the AAR coupler, standard gauge and Westinghouse air brake, had their equipment roll on US rails from the factory to a shipping point."
All of them were painted and usually lettered, wearing Metric dimensional and weight data. For US operation, English Empire data would also be required (feet, inches, pounds and tons).
Note that Canadian freight cars carry both, as well as lettering in English and French.  
So modeling a brand new car for NdeM or Cuba Consolidated and running it on a US theme model railroad would be a stretch but not incorrect.
Mainly because there would be more than one car of them in a train for delivery at the border, or a port for shipment abroad."

You are correct regarding the Cuban Railroads, but incorrect about Mexican roads.  The various Mexican roads interchanged cars with several US roads which served the Southwest.  Any ORER will list the interchange points.  

A good number of Mexican railroads were members of The MCBA, The ARA and AAR and adhered to the Interchange Rules.

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada



 


_._,_._,_


Re: Looking to contact Ed Kaminski . . . now PM Wooden Cabooses

lrkdbn
 

Yes they were yellow with a red stripe along the bottom of the sides and aluminum end railings and platforms, as I recall..
C&O lettering of course.
I moved away from the neighborhood in late 1972,and the two PM cabooses were gone by then.I do recall seeing C&O "standard" wood and plywood cabooses sometimes at Rougemere ca. 1973-4
The only PM lettered car I recall seeing in that time was a black covered hopper at Rougemere (Dearborn MI) yard one day.
What is the address of the revived PM historical society?
Regards
Larry King


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

Penny Simunic
 

Monon rider car. Used in Indiana to allow LCL shipments. Also to accommodate the extra conductor, for extra crewman in Indiana. Not sure how it ended up out West. In later years used as tool car.
RonS


Re: Photo: NKP Boxcar 27664

lrkdbn
 

Another car I've been looking for! Ray Breyer at the NKP group knows a lot about these cars,and the NKPHTS
modeler's on line magazine has articles. Decals can be had from Resin Car Works.
Larry King


Re: West India Fruit & Steamship Company Historic Film

Walter Cox
 



In a message dated 12/15/2019 3:31:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, edb8381@... writes:

<Note that Canadian freight cars carry both, as well as lettering in English and French.> 
The addition of metric and French did not occur on CN until after the period of this list and I think that is true for CP as well.
Walt. ( Modelling CN in 1959.)


Re: Odd (to me) Monon car

 

Yeah, that slide is mis-labeled. That is not on SP&S rails, but on the Monon. The Monon faced a power shortage in 1966 due to their return of several Alco C628s to the manufacturer, and had to lease these SP&S engines until Alco could produce the 628s replacement.

The car trailing the locomotive is a 'Rider' car that was required by State Law for 'locals' exceeding a certain size. These were home built by the Monon at the Lafayette, Indiana Shops. Mont Switzer can provide a more thorough description of these cars. 

In HO, at one time they were offered by Overland Models.

Dave Strahlendorf
Erlanger, Ky