Date   

Old catalog

Marty McGuirk
 

Digging through some boxes came across this old Westerfield catalog. Not sure what year it’s from, but intro page says “our latest kit is the USRA mill gondola.”


upcoming Hindsight 20/20 Virtual RPM

Eric Hansmann
 

September 26th is the date for the next Hindsight 20/20 V-RPM. Registration is now open. A clinic line up can be reviewed on the registration page.

http://speedwitchmedia.com/product/hindsight-20-20-3-0-registration/

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN


Re: ANC rolling stock images

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Claus and Friends,

These cars are a very rare find. Although the Atlantic & North Carolina dated to before the Civil War, it was under lease and completely absorbed by the original Norfolk Southern between 1906 and 1935. When the NS couldn't make their lease payments, the A&NC went independent again, operating between Goldsboro and Beaufort. It was branded the "Old Mullet Line", as seen on the boxcar's quirky herald. Unable to make a profit, the line was leased out again in 1939 as the Southern-backed Atlantic & East Carolina Railway. During WWII military traffic boomed, and the port became a major shipping area. Today much of the line is still operated by the current Norfolk Southern. North Carolina Ports operates several miles of switching lines in Morehead City. The track to Beaufort (mostly on trestles) is gone.

I have a soft spot for railroads around Morehead City, having had a chance to briefly explore them in 1983 while passing through on an assignment as a Coast Guard Photojournalist. The line to Beaufort was still operating then as the Beaufort & Morehead, and one of their Whitcomb switchers was batting around DODX tank cars filled with jet fuel for the nearby Marine base. Some of those cars were the prototypes for the Red Caboose model, probably running out their last miles.

The A&NC's corporate history, with lots of locomotive photos, is covered in NORFOLK SOUTHERN RAILROAD, OLD DOMINION LINE AND CONNECTIONS by Richard E. Prince (self-published, 1972). This book is almost as rare as photos of the A&NC's cars themselves. His book does include good photos of ANC boxcar 21105 and caboose 308 among the locomotive shots.

Given that the "Old Mullet Line" lasted only four or so years, these two photos are an extreme rarity. Thanks for noticing them.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆 


On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 4:36 PM Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;) <claus@...> wrote:
Hi List Members,
 
I stumbled upon some images of ANC (Atlantic & North Carolina?) rolling stock - see images below...
 
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: An image of meat reefer SRL 7749

Ray Breyer
 

ACF lot 649. 200 cars for Swift, built in Detroit. Order placed July 1899.

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


On Friday, September 11, 2020, 07:33:10 PM CDT, Claus Schlund \(HGM\) <claus@...> wrote:


Hi List Members,
 
An image of meat reefer SRL 7749 - no date given but possibly 1895?
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


An image of SFRD 9220

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
An image of SFRD 9220, a reefer with trussrod construction and Bohn patent ventilators, class Rr-R
 
No date given
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


An image of meat reefer SRL 7749

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
An image of meat reefer SRL 7749 - no date given but possibly 1895?
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 


Re: Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
Entirely by coincidence, I came across some images of Indian Refining Co tank cars in the Barriger collection today... see links below:
 
 
 
One of the cars may have reporting marks IRCX 798, but hard to say for sure.
 
I have to say, it looks like a totally rag-tag collection of cars, many different types, only a few that match each other.
 
Claus Schlund
 
 
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 5:48 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

At 12:28 PM 9/11/2020, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
>Here's a screen grab with a bit of Photoshop magic of the tank car
>at the Iron City Brewery. It is marked I. R. Co. 32, and appears to
>be an AC&F Type 7. Another very interesting tank car is behind it,
>but sadly only the dome is visible.

The tank car at the iron City Brewery -probably- has a 3-digit
number... perhaps 302 or 312;
There is an AC&F builders' photo of IRCo 309... (date unreadable),
an apparently identical car for the Indian Refining Company
of  Georgetown KY...


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
-------------------- 





Re: Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

Richard Brennan
 

At 12:28 PM 9/11/2020, Garth Groff and Sally Sanford wrote:
Here's a screen grab with a bit of Photoshop magic of the tank car at the Iron City Brewery. It is marked I. R. Co. 32, and appears to be an AC&F Type 7. Another very interesting tank car is behind it, but sadly only the dome is visible.
The tank car at the iron City Brewery -probably- has a 3-digit number... perhaps 302 or 312;
There is an AC&F builders' photo of IRCo 309... (date unreadable),
an apparently identical car for the Indian Refining Company of Georgetown KY...


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Re: Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

Chuck Soule
 

With a keg that size, you think it would go flat before it was all used!


ANC rolling stock images

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi List Members,
 
I stumbled upon some images of ANC (Atlantic & North Carolina?) rolling stock - see images below...
 
 
 
Enjoy!
 
Claus Schlund
 
 


Re: Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford <mallardlodge1000@...>
 

Friends,

Here's a screen grab with a bit of Photoshop magic of the tank car at the Iron City Brewery. It is marked I. R. Co. 32, and appears to be an AC&F Type 7. Another very interesting tank car is behind it, but sadly only the dome is visible.

Yours Aye,


Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆




On Fri, Sep 11, 2020 at 1:36 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133908.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Photo editing software will bring out the detail.

The car appears to be I.R Co. 3_2 with full-length running boards and hand rails.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: L&N boom and tool car 42296

Tony Thompson
 

     Very nice-looking boom car, good job fading the paint. But I have never seen a boom car this clean <g>. Probably it still needs the grease and oil stains and general dirt that come with service . . . not a criticism, just a suggestion.

Tony Thompson




Re: Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 


HI Eric and List Members,
 
Eric wrote: "The next car has a Pennsy heritage look, but the markings are not readable"
 
Likely a PRR class XL boxcar. The left opening flush-mounted door and the fishbelly side frames are powerful evidence for this
 
Claus Schlund
 

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

That’s a great string of classic freight cars. A well-worn B&LE gondola is at the far right. The Rock Island furniture boxcar is easy to identify. It is one of 213 cars in the 60500-60749 series. The 1917 ORER has these designated as XA. Under the Class column they are Furniture-Auto, but a note indicates only cars with double end-doors are for automobile loading.

 

An SP boxcar is next followed by an older NC&StL truss rod car. The next car has a Pennsy heritage look, but the markings are not readable. It’s difficult to see if there is a ladder grab on the car end. A roof grab looks like it might be above a ladder that is closer to the center of the car end. The hand brake wheel looks like it is right of the coupler, too.

 

An MP truss rod car follows with a composite gon at the far left just behind a locomotive. Cool stuff!

 


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

 

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Safety Appliance details - was Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

Dave Parker
 

Thanks Eric, that is a fascinating book.  Just reading the first 10 pages gives a good feel for the dickering between the railroad representatives (the General Committee....) and the ICC.  Then, if you get into the hearing transcripts you can get an even better feel for those (sometimes testy) negotiations.

This is probably a semantic argument, but I view the General Committee... as a lobbying group that was charged with getting the best deal possible from the ICC.  This involved both the details of the required appliances, and the phasing in of those requirements for existing cars in service (thus the several extensions of the deadline).  But it was the ICC that had the final say, and that promulgated the actual requirements, as per this snippet from the 2010 Federal Register:



This is an important shift in the regulation of the railroads, which had been self-governed to such a large degree prior.  Of course the USRA years were still to come, and then the 1920 Transportation Act (Esch-Cummins) which further inserted the ICC into the regulation of railroad business practices.  In the late 1920s, the tank car construction standards that had largely been the purview of the MCB/ARA became "co-regulated" by ICC standards.

A very interesting two-decade period in railroad history!
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

Eric Hansmann
 

That’s a great string of classic freight cars. A well-worn B&LE gondola is at the far right. The Rock Island furniture boxcar is easy to identify. It is one of 213 cars in the 60500-60749 series. The 1917 ORER has these designated as XA. Under the Class column they are Furniture-Auto, but a note indicates only cars with double end-doors are for automobile loading.

 

An SP boxcar is next followed by an older NC&StL truss rod car. The next car has a Pennsy heritage look, but the markings are not readable. It’s difficult to see if there is a ladder grab on the car end. A roof grab looks like it might be above a ladder that is closer to the center of the car end. The hand brake wheel looks like it is right of the coupler, too.

 

An MP truss rod car follows with a composite gon at the far left just behind a locomotive. Cool stuff!

 


Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Bob Chaparro via groups.io
Sent: Friday, September 11, 2020 12:35 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

 

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

mel perry
 

interesting espee box next to it, appears
to be fitted with a grain door and riding
on t-sections
;-)

On Fri, Sep 11, 2020, 10:35 AM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Tank Car Outside Brewery (1913)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.133908.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Photo editing software will bring out the detail.

The car appears to be I.R Co. 3_2 with full-length running boards and hand rails.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Rock Island Furniture Boxcar 60503 (1917)

A photo from the Historic Pittsburgh Collection:

https://historicpittsburgh.org/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.174558.CP

Click on the photo and then scroll to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

John Barry
 

Dave,

The procedures for granting an exemption or extension back in the day would have been dictated by the ICC, most likely in their rules of practice.  Since 1946, those procedures have been governed by the Administrative Procedures Act.  In today's environment, the regulator often reaches out to industry for assistance setting out the standards that they will enforce by rule.  Looks like that principle of consent and comment of the governed operated in the setting of the standards 110 years ago.

John Barry
 
ATSF North Bay Lines 
Golden Gates & Fast Freights 
Lovettsville, VA

707-490-9696 

PO Box 44736 
Washington, DC 20026-4736


On Friday, September 11, 2020, 01:24:07 AM EDT, Dave Parker via groups.io <spottab@...> wrote:


Well, Guy, I knew if I stuck my foot in it on this one, and the trap got sprung, it would probably be by you.  As always, I have learned something both interesting and important.

Just curious:  is there a convenient reference for the granting of these extensions?  I didn't see one in the archival versions of your explanation.

Also, can we safely assume that new-car construction was never exempt once we hit the 7/1/11 implementation data? 

Last, did the ARA provide any data to make their case to the ICC that each successive deadline could not be met?   I am wondering what fraction of the pre-1911 cars had been properly refitted by 1915, 1917, etc.  I don't think the photographic evidence from that period is nearly extensive enough to give us any clues as to the proportion of compliant vs noncompliant cars.

As always, thanks for the history lesson!

With best regards.
(PS, I hope Idaho is not as crazy as it is up and down the coastal states right now.  It's apocalyptic here)
--
Dave Parker
Swall Meadows, CA


Re: Safety Appliance details - was Photo: PRR Boxcar 515355 (1912)

Eric Hansmann
 

Dave Parker wrote:

The ICC (not the MCB) was charged with developing the details of the required appliances, it was put on a deadline (with a threat of penalty), and the fines to be charged the railroads (by the ICC) for noncompliance are spelled out at this time.

=================

 

Dave,

 

I was wrong about the MCB developing the details for the required appliances, but it was not the ICC either. A General Committee of Railroads on Safety Appliance Standards was formed in 1910 to develop details on standardized safety appliances and their locations in order to fulfill the amendment to the Safety Appliance Act. The committee was formed “At the instance of the Secretary of the ICC…” Their findings were published and available to review at this link. Page five details the formation of this committee and their duties.

https://books.google.com/books?id=0wkqAAAAYAAJ&ppis=_e&pg=PA4#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

I mentioned the MCB as I had this book in mind; Drawings of the Standards and Recommended Practice of the Master Car Builders’ Association.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uiug.30112070081655&view=1up&seq=5

 

Obviously, the Committee and the MCB worked closely to develop the safety appliance specifics.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

9881 - 9900 of 187319