Date   

Re: Meat reefers

Tony Thompson
 

Ted Schnepf wrote:

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago . . . My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. 

    Good point, Ted. But remember they all came back west empty. Lots of photos of westward trains in the steam era show quite a mix of meat cars, presumably empty.

Tony Thompson




Re: Meat reefers

Brian Carlson
 

That’s the beauty of modeling part of the Erie Main through Pennsylvania. I can get most of them <grin>. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...> wrote:


Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!


Re: Meat reefers

Ted Schnepf
 

Hello,

Always nice to see fine reefer models.

In the early 1950's before the meat packers expanded, by consolidating facilities. the only place to see some of these reefers together on one train was east of Chicago. NKP did have the line east out of Chicago. Dubuqe, Oscar Meyer, and Hormel. were one plant companies. Hygrade in the early 1950's had only one or two plants. Swift, Armour, and Wilson had multiple locations.

My point is that not all meat reefers would be regularly seen, on the same train, except east of Chicago. When picking reefers to model, be aware of the plant locations and likely routing over your railroad.

Ted Schnepf

On Tuesday, April 7, 2020, 06:54:16 AM CDT, Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!


Fruit Growers & Western Fruit Overhead Bunker Reefers—was WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Bill Welch
 

If Athearn has produced an accurate model of a Fruit Growers Express “Overhead Bunker” or “OB” car, it is one of the best-kept secrets in the history of the world. Likewise if they have lettered one of their existing models as a FGE “OB” car, it is one of the biggest FOOBIES in the history of the world.

FGE built their first OB types in 1940 at the Indiana Harbor Car Shops. There were only ten of these all-steel cars built to load frozen foods, then still a relatively new product. These cars had ten ice bunkers under the roof—these were really trays—that were used to hold a mixture of salt and ice that could produce a temperature of 28° F. It is unclear whether FGE intended to build more of these only to be interrupted by WWII. These ten cars were heavily insulated and the door and safety hardware had to be inset into the steel side panel sheathing to allow them to meet clearance standards.

In 1944 again at Indiana Harbor FGE began to build a very different looking Overhead Bunker refrigerator car with a heavy Fishbelly centersill, 4/5 Dreadnaught ends, and plywood sheathed sides with steel panels on the ends and doors to again permit their respective hardware to be inset. These were the first cars to be designated and stenciled “FOBX.” These cars used the same basic roof hatch design as the 1940 built OB cars. Their roof hatch covers were hinged perpendicular to the running board. They also had permanent Charcoal heaters slung under the floor. These were in the FOBX 4000 series.

In 1946 FGE built more of these types in the FOBX 700 series with a new hatch cover design hinged parallel to the running board. These hatches had a much more pronounced rectangular shape then the previous design. These too had underslung charcoal heaters. Then in 1950 Indiana Harbor built 150 new all steel overhead bunker reefers, FOBX 600–699 and WOBX 501–550 for Western Fruit, their first and only such types. (The earlier 600 series had been previously scrapped.) The new cars used the same roof and roof hatch cover design from the 1944 group of cars. Because of the tray type brine storage, these OB types required much more care and thus time when re-icing so as not to breach the waterproof lining: This meant no pointed tools.

Because brine could only achieve 28° F the shippers of frozen foods pressed for methods to get to 0° F. Truckers could get to Zero with the new Mechanical systems manufactured by Thermo-King, who perfected their innovative mobile refrigeration system on the battlefields of WWII. Fruit Growers especially felt the competition from truckers and thus FGE and their partners WFE and BRE began to research and test various powered and unpowered refrigeration systems capable of producing much colder temperatures and by 1949 had both one diesel and one gasoline powered 40-foot Mechanical reefer being tested shipping frozen foods. By 1957 the FGE-WFE-BRE System had some 1,200 40- and 50-foot Mechanicals in service.

Despite the large number of Mechanical reefers available by 1957 the OB cars continued in-service into the 1960’s. By that time the plywood sheathed cars had their sheathing replaced with T&G boards.

For anyone interested in modeling I am working on the End Pattern for the FOBX 4000 group as part of a collaborative effort to create model.

Bill Welch


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Charles Peck
 

I agree the roof has what look like ice hatches. On the other hand, did any
reefer ever have sliding doors?  I see no sign that there were ever any hinges
for swinging doors.
Chuck Peck

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 3:07 PM Jack Mullen <jack.f.mullen@...> wrote:
On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 11:21 AM, Richard Brennan wrote:
- the no end-platform contractor business car (converted traction baggage?)
Notice the ice hatches at each end, which suggest this is a former express refrigerator. Possibly ex-traction, but the flat ends make me think it's of steam-road origin. Clerestory roofs were uncommon but did appear on some early express reefers, e.g. Wells Fargo.

Jack Mullen


Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

Andy Carlson
 

My 1st visit to Mendocino county was in 1966 and I could easily remember seeing the huge sign painted on a metal roof on top of a mill building along side of the North Western Pacific RR tracks in the town of Ukiah. Said, as I remember, "Home of the Presto Logs". It disappeared a few years later, though I believe the mill building still stands. Lots of 40' box cars and 53' flat cars abound. Thanks for the images!
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA



Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

A 1930 photo of car 426 from the Potlatch Historical Society Collection:

https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/phs/items/phs1369.html

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Jack Mullen
 

On Tue, Apr 7, 2020 at 11:21 AM, Richard Brennan wrote:
- the no end-platform contractor business car (converted traction baggage?)
Notice the ice hatches at each end, which suggest this is a former express refrigerator. Possibly ex-traction, but the flat ends make me think it's of steam-road origin. Clerestory roofs were uncommon but did appear on some early express reefers, e.g. Wells Fargo.

Jack Mullen


Photo: Washington, Idaho & Montana Railway Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Washington, Idaho & Montana Railway Boxcar

A 1910 photo of car 442 from the Potlatch Historical Society Collection:

https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/phs/items/phs1365.html

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Pres-To-Logs Boxcar

A 1930 photo of car 426 from the Potlatch Historical Society Collection:

https://www.lib.uidaho.edu/digital/phs/items/phs1369.html

Click on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Apr 7, 2020, at 11:21, Richard Brennan <rbrennan@tt-west.com> wrote:

There is -nothing- in this photo that is NOT eminently modelable!
Strewth! Even the pick and shovel in the lower-right octant contribute.
--
"This is a problem that fixes itself."
Professor H. Farnsworth.


Modellogenic scene: from ErieLack NPS photos

Richard Brennan
 

There is -nothing- in this photo that is NOT eminently modelable!
http://lists.railfan.net/erielackphoto.cgi?erielack-04-07-20/X5292.jpg

- the no end-platform contractor business car (converted traction baggage?)
- composite gon with double stake pockets
- single-lane concrete underpass with warning signs (and a lurker!)
- tools in the mud ready for use...
- and the crashed pick-up truck in the ditch

Kearny NJ - from the NPS Steamtown photo collection on the ErieLack list.


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
MP 17.8 - Robert [Roberts Landing] on the SP Mulford Line.
--------------------


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Jim Betz
 

Ed,
  Perhaps  for company ice service?  As in moving big blocks of ice
from source (lake) to icing facilities?
  Or as experiment that was used for a few years but didn't really work?
                                                                                      - Jim


Meat reefers

Eric Hansmann
 

Frank Hodina shares photos and details on a few meat reefers in the latest Resin Car Works blog post. 


Eric Hansmann
RCW web guy

Be safe. Stay healthy. Build models!


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

spsalso
 

Tim,

They were much taller than those cars.

And, to head off possible suggestions, they had ice bunkers at the ends, so were unlikely to have got raised tops for that purpose.

I will succumb to my temptation, and suggest they were used for transporting potted trees.  Small-ish ones.  Something 10' tall, 3-4' wide, doesn't like warm temperatures?

If you've got an alternate load, I'm interested.  Sure weren't used for apples.

Ed

Edward Sutorik



On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 06:57 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Were they anything like the W&R models?

https://brasstrains.sirv.com/products/079574/0795740102.jpg


On 4/6/2020 9:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:

    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.
 
    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.
 
Cordially, Don Valentine

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

spsalso
 

Don,

I'm curious.  What's an Athearn FOBX #4156?  Maybe some kind of link, or something?

I see your 1938 ORER preceeds mine--good to know.

They don't show in my July 1945, although there ARE other interesting critters.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Ed

Edward Sutorik


On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 06:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine wrote:
    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.
 
    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.
 
Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Tim O'Connor
 


Were they anything like the W&R models?

https://brasstrains.sirv.com/products/079574/0795740102.jpg


On 4/6/2020 9:30 PM, Donald B. Valentine via groups.io wrote:
    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.

    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.

Cordially, Don Valentine


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Model brake component size comparison to prototype

Paul Woods <paul@...>
 

Dennis: Thank you for that very succinct explanation.  I believe it supports if not outright proves that what I said was not nonsense. 

Ed:  There is a vast difference between theoretical principles and real-world applications.  I think I was being fair in objecting to Tony's manner of writing, which was unnecessarily harsh, especially in light of what Dennis has said.  What about your tone indeed!  There are nicer ways of saying that you think someone is wrong, and 'tis easier to remove one's foot from one's mouth when it has not already been shoved all the way in ;-).

Moderator:  Don't bother excommunicating me from this group; I am already leaving voluntarily as I don't need the unpleasantness of being attacked like this.  When I read something that I think is wrong, I first ask, "Excuse me but I thought it was actually ____.  How have you arrived at your facts?"  To get a whole lot of "You're wrong!  That's nonsense!" fresh out of the blocks is not the behaviour of gentlemen.

Regards
Paul


Re: WFEX 1201-1202 freight reefers

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    Out of curiosity alone I looked for these cars in my July 1947 ORER and, like you,  found them gone by that time. 
So I looked at the WFE and BREX rosters to see if they had anything similar, which they didn't. I had also look over 
my Athearn FOBX #4156 which is listed but has nowhere near the height of your two odd balls. With no similar cars
listed for the related companies I went back and looked at the January 1938 ORER and found both listed there and 
just as you described them. Sorry I can't offer any ore on these tow strange cars.

    Speaking of the Athearn FOBX #4156 does anyone know where Fruit Growers Express used these cars and who
they served? Fruit Growers was a large operator in New England, especially on the New Haven, so I bought it some
time ago to add variety to a reefer block.

Cordially, Don Valentine


CORRECTED COPY Re: [RealSTMFC] N&W BL and BLa boxcars

David
 

A check of the July 1935 ORER turns up the car series N&W 67000-67999, 791 cars, 40 ft 6 in IL, 9 ft 1 in IH, 10 ft door opening.  This series in the January 1940 ORER is occupied by 31 ft IL, 11 ft height of top chord above rail twin hoppers as the Class BL boxcars were rebuilt to Class SK stock cars in the mid-1930s.
500 of the class BL were rebuilt to class SK stock cars. The other 500 were renumbered to 42000-42790 (some numbers were not used).

David Thompson


Steam Locomotive Expertise

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Steam locomotives pull steam era freight cars.  (Get that out of the way, first.)
 
I am looking for someone to discuss power reverse gear.  Around 1940, the Rock Island equipped a bunch of older locomotives with power reverse gear.  In the series that currently interests me, they used several brands of equipment.  I have photos and would like to have an off group discussion with someone who could help ID's the various types.
 
Please contact me off list at shile (at) mindspring (dot) com if you can help, or know someone who can.
 
Thanks so much,
Steve Hile

9881 - 9900 of 181128