Date   

Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

Jeff Eggert
 

I'll second the use of a DSLR for digitizing a book such as this.  A simple copy stand and a 20+ MP DSLR can generally do well for most items up to 11x17 in size or so, depends on how fine the printing is.

Relating this to steam era freight cars, I have a homemade stand and have used it to digitize over 4,000 car forging drawings the CNWHS has.  We have deemed these drawings to be of minimal value (as far as we know no one has ever asked for them, ever) and felt traditional flatbed scanning was too time consuming or feeder scanning wouldn't work.  They were taking up prime file cabinet space before, now they can be relegated to deeper depths of the archives storage.  A small resolution sample is attached.

Jeff Eggert


Re: Another new (?) vendor at Springfield

Bill Welch
 
Edited

Very fine and realistic items. He has been at CCB Prototype Rails in 2018 and 2019. Glad to see he is expanding his offerings and making the rounds at various shows and meets.

Bill Welch


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scannin

Randy Hees
 

Beyond modeling they have value.  I care for museum equipment.  We are FRA regulated.  Among those regulations is the 50 year freight car rule...  That says cars are done at 50 years with some allowance for rebuilding or alternately a waiver.... My waiver includes a required 2 year "comprehensive inspection"...  Which last go round was observed by the FRA...   In general you inspect the cars to AAR interchange rules.

The current AAR interchange rule book (which the FRA guy carried) does not include anything lighter than 70 ton capacity cars...  We had to use an older rule books (1975, and update to 1974) from the museum collection to establish the standards to inspect to including side bearing clearance and center plate clearance.  We had a question on acceptable cast side frames which these drawings might address.  

I have also used earlier MCB standards and United States Safety Appliances books when writing preservation studies to guide restorations.

Randy Hees
Director, Nevada State Railroad Museum, Boulder City


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

mel perry
 

of course, it has historical value and should be
preserved and scanned, there appears to be no
shortage of volunteers for the project, i would
just add, that who/whomever is chosen, doesn't
ise this item ad a means of extortion, ideally it should be posted to the web with "copy" super
imposed on each page, that way it can be viewed
by everyone, and if someone chooses to
purchase copy or copies, at a reasonable price
they can.do so, storing it someplace which is
not acceptable, unless they have to travel a
distance, is a form of elitism, give the public
a chance, at least to view the documents with
other options, notice i said "reasonable prices",
i already know where this is headed
mel perry


Re: ADMIN RE: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

Dave Nelson
 

What is missing from the long established rules is the situation where a list member sees something for sale from some unknown third party and believes the item may be of general interest to other members.  For many years I would forward inventory announcements from used booksellers for CBC’s and CBD’s.  In every case I did not know anything about the seller much less have a financial interest.  No one ever complained.

 

IMO the rules should allow the above situation and if so it should be documented in the rules.

 

Dave Nelson

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Aley, Jeff A
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 6:22 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io; main+owner@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: ADMIN RE: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

 

Hi Folks,

 

The relevant rules are below.  Permit me to summarize:

1.  We permit the announcement of freight car-related items for sale.  These announcements should be kept to a minimum, and inquiries directed off-list.

2. COMPANIES who wish to announce freight car-related items for sale shall post their announcements between noon Friday EST and Saturday 11:59PM EST.

 

In my judgement, Clark Propst’s email meets the spirit and the letter of the rules.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley,

Deputy Moderator, STMFC

 

“Announcements of frt car related items for sale are permitted BUT actual

lists of items should be made available from the seller upon request rather

than in the message. Announcements of such sales should be kept at a

minimum. The primary objective of the group is to exchange information

concerning the subject.

 

Messages regarding the selling of products as part of a commercial

enterprise must be sent during the period of noon Friday EST and Saturday

midnight EST.

 

Each seller is allowed one message unless a correction is needed. Seller

messages MUST include OFF GROUP addresses for replies. Replies by members to

seller messages MUST be OFF GROUP.”

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Huber via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 3:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

 

I read the group description and goals and see no mention of selling, etc. I would prefer this group NOT become flea market but still welcome someone selling kits or completed cars, parts or being made aware of new products. Some folks don't have a lot of contacts in which to be informed about things so we should be able to share here.

 

I would appreciate having a moderator get in this conversation with a YEA or NAY for us.

 

Thanks,

 

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

 

 

 


Re: ADMIN RE: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

Bill Welch
 

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 03:08 PM, mel perry wrote:
as long as the poster follows the tules,
then there is no problem, if yoiu don't
like the post or object to it, DELETE it,
DON'T turn it into a mountain, get a life
folks, turn off your computer, and get
some fresh air
my .02 worth
mel perry

 

. . .or build something.

Bill Welch

 


Re: ADMIN RE: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

mel perry
 

as long as the poster follows the tules,
then there is no problem, if yoiu don't
like the post or object to it, DELETE it,
DON'T turn it into a mountain, get a life
folks, turn off your computer, and get
some fresh air
my .02 worth
mel perry

On Mon, Jan 27, 2020, 6:22 PM Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

Hi Folks,

 

The relevant rules are below.  Permit me to summarize:

1.  We permit the announcement of freight car-related items for sale.  These announcements should be kept to a minimum, and inquiries directed off-list.

2. COMPANIES who wish to announce freight car-related items for sale shall post their announcements between noon Friday EST and Saturday 11:59PM EST.

 

In my judgement, Clark Propst’s email meets the spirit and the letter of the rules.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley,

Deputy Moderator, STMFC

 

“Announcements of frt car related items for sale are permitted BUT actual

lists of items should be made available from the seller upon request rather

than in the message. Announcements of such sales should be kept at a

minimum. The primary objective of the group is to exchange information

concerning the subject.

 

Messages regarding the selling of products as part of a commercial

enterprise must be sent during the period of noon Friday EST and Saturday

midnight EST.

 

Each seller is allowed one message unless a correction is needed. Seller

messages MUST include OFF GROUP addresses for replies. Replies by members to

seller messages MUST be OFF GROUP.”

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Huber via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 3:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

 

I read the group description and goals and see no mention of selling, etc. I would prefer this group NOT become flea market but still welcome someone selling kits or completed cars, parts or being made aware of new products. Some folks don't have a lot of contacts in which to be informed about things so we should be able to share here.

 

I would appreciate having a moderator get in this conversation with a YEA or NAY for us.

 

Thanks,

 

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

 

 

 


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

np328
 

First a reply to the original question: Yes, I think it is worth preserving. 

Why. 
Of the value: At one time...…  I had AAR documents copied at the MNHS, and did presentations on them at the Naperville and CCB meets, many years ago.  
1) I asked at the time, of the MNHS staff on any copyrights that might be on these (1956,1957) AAR documents. They came back with the declaration that these were reports complied and released - directly into the public domain. (Thus fully supporting the last part of Tony's post.) 
2) I had these (photo-copied from the MNHS) pages of the AAR reports over this 15 month period. My wife talked about cleaning up the house a bit and as I felt I was done with these, have given the presentations years prior, they got recycled.  About a year later, a young railfan I met at one of my historical societies events asked me if he could see the reports. I looked and then recalled I tossed them. 
      To him, and possibly others on this list, there was great value.

The AAR reports came out bi-monthly and gave traffic loading, crop reports and car loadings of these wheat, fruit, and vegetable loadings, industry strikes, (steel mills), car shortages, import export loadings, steel, iron ore, coal loadings, listed the two week time regional frames. Also when the farm implement builders went on vacation (that was a surprise) and how this eased the flat and gon loadings.
     I used this principally to show on the reefer loadings and how reefers were busiest in fall, winter, and spring, when carrying protected shipments, keeping them warm.   I do recall one person telling me that the presentation was OK, except that he doesn't model winter.  (I suppose this person might think that on the real railroads the hand of God takes these reefers and packs them in drawers someplace and all those reefers magically disappear during his modeled time.) 

   In hindsight, the value I thought I had wrung out of these documents, others may still see and I ways I never envisioned. 

  If you do not want to do this and the binder (rusted you say) has no value, send them to me and I will scan them at our archives. (four by? scanner) 
The only thing I will ask for is a copy of the electronic data.
The pages once released, would be returned to you for what ever disposition you decide.                                          Jim Dick - St. Paul 

  


Re: Another new (?) vendor at Springfield

mopacfirst
 

In generic terms, a pretty realistic heat exchanger.  The 'shell and tube' nomenclature comes from the fact that the 'shell', the part from the double sets of flanges back toward the end, contains a set of tubes that are connected to the 'channel', the part from that double set of flanges forward to the head.  The head has two grabs on it, and it's suspended by a davit for use in holding it when it's unbolted for servicing.  So fluid A goes in and out of the nozzles on top and bottom of the channel.  They're more commonly directly opposite each other, but could be offset as here.  There's a baffle that makes that fluid go through the tubes, and either heat or be heated / cool or be cooled by fluid B, which goes in and out of the two larger nozzles on the shell.  The third nozzle on the shell is either a vent or is a side stream going somewhere else.

Most 6' diameter heat exchangers don't have nozzles that are quite that long, but that's just a matter of proportions.  All in all, at least it looks like it's a real piece of equipment with primer coat instead of an oversized piece of junk that fell from the 87:1 sky like some loads do.

Ron Merrick
(not a heat transfer engineer, but I know a few)


Re: New eBay listing

Bob Chapman
 

Even if I'm not in the market, I appreciate seeing the eBay listings, especially when the models are exemplary such as the current listing. I almost always learn something or at least get a bit of inspiration by checking out photos of the models. And as a potential future seller, the final sale price is useful insight for when the time comes. 

Keep 'em coming!
Bob Chapman


Re: ADMIN RE: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

Tim O'Connor
 


Just a simple suggestion - Make a SEPARATE groups.io list that initially includes ONLY the
members of RealSTMFC - to be the "want to buy - want to sell" list for this group of people.
And as always, keep all transaction details off list. If people don't want to belong or want
no email, they can take care of it with the email that is sent by groups.io.

It also means we don't eat up RealSTMFC photo or file space for sales or purchases.

Tim O'Connor




On 1/27/2020 9:22 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Hi Folks,

 

The relevant rules are below.  Permit me to summarize:

1.  We permit the announcement of freight car-related items for sale.  These announcements should be kept to a minimum, and inquiries directed off-list.

2. COMPANIES who wish to announce freight car-related items for sale shall post their announcements between noon Friday EST and Saturday 11:59PM EST.

 

In my judgement, Clark Propst’s email meets the spirit and the letter of the rules.

 

Regards,

 

-Jeff Aley,

Deputy Moderator, STMFC

 

“Announcements of frt car related items for sale are permitted BUT actual

lists of items should be made available from the seller upon request rather

than in the message. Announcements of such sales should be kept at a

minimum. The primary objective of the group is to exchange information

concerning the subject.

 

Messages regarding the selling of products as part of a commercial

enterprise must be sent during the period of noon Friday EST and Saturday

midnight EST.

 

Each seller is allowed one message unless a correction is needed. Seller

messages MUST include OFF GROUP addresses for replies. Replies by members to

seller messages MUST be OFF GROUP.”

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Roger Huber via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 3:50 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] New eBay listing

 

I read the group description and goals and see no mention of selling, etc. I would prefer this group NOT become flea market but still welcome someone selling kits or completed cars, parts or being made aware of new products. Some folks don't have a lot of contacts in which to be informed about things so we should be able to share here.

 

I would appreciate having a moderator get in this conversation with a YEA or NAY for us.

 

Thanks,

 

Roger Huber

Deer Creek Locomotive Works

 

 

 


--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Another new (?) vendor at Springfield

Tim O'Connor
 


Also, any comments on the TIE DOWNS on this load. It seems to me that
the blocking would not prevent longitudinal movements. Should there be
additional strapping from stake pocket to stake pocket on opposite sides
of the car?

Tim O'Connor




On 1/28/2020 1:49 PM, Stic Harris wrote:
Pretty neat. Thank you Tim.
Can anyone comment on dates of use for something like this "heat exchanger"?

Stic Harris

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 1:42 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I forgot to mention these guys - 3-D printed items of very high quality
at very reasonable prices!

I bought this Heat Exchanger kit -
https://dmcrrproducts.com/product/fcl-14000-ho-6d-x-45l-shell-tube-heat-exchanger-kit/

Tim O'




--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Does anyone use resin brake components?

Tim O'Connor
 

Excellent point Ron! Replacement parts for many plastic kits really uses up the stash of brake components.

Byron Rose (Pittsburgh Scale Models) packaged both his detailed coupler gear box (that everyone has now
copied!) and a 3-set of AB brake components that are highly detailed. Way better looking than Tichy parts for
example.

Tim O'


I have always saved them and used them on kits like Intermountain
where the supplied triple valve just looks like a cube.
Ron Merrick




--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Another new (?) vendor at Springfield

Stic Harris
 

Pretty neat. Thank you Tim.
Can anyone comment on dates of use for something like this "heat exchanger"?

Stic Harris

On Tue, Jan 28, 2020 at 1:42 PM Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

I forgot to mention these guys - 3-D printed items of very high quality
at very reasonable prices!

I bought this Heat Exchanger kit -
https://dmcrrproducts.com/product/fcl-14000-ho-6d-x-45l-shell-tube-heat-exchanger-kit/

Tim O'



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*





--


- Stic


RR Wreck ...plus

Bob Webber
 

Interesting in that the two prime cars are both UP Auto cars...the end and side views (different series, but..)  Note that there is stenciling on the end (bottom)
https://aadl.org/node/354866


At 11:58 AM 1/28/2020, Jeff Ward wrote:
Interesting photo of the scrap rubber drive posted by Bob Chaparro.

https://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N082_0371_001.jpg

Of note (to me at least) is the Durea underframe slack adjuster mechanism under the right side of the door.

Jeff Ward
Norwalk, CT

Bob Webber


Another new (?) vendor at Springfield

Tim O'Connor
 

I forgot to mention these guys - 3-D printed items of very high quality
at very reasonable prices!

I bought this Heat Exchanger kit -
https://dmcrrproducts.com/product/fcl-14000-ho-6d-x-45l-shell-tube-heat-exchanger-kit/

Tim O'



--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Book of historical drawings; is it worth scanning?

Tony Thompson
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:

No Copyright declaration that I've found, yet. I wouldn't expect one. Back when the owner of a work actually had to pay money to secure copyright protection, typically only things intended to make money, like books and magazines, were copyrighted.

      Most railroad publications were not copyrighted, including annual reports, employee magazines, brochures, timetables, etc. etc. Prior to 1978, if a copyright notice had not been inserted into the publication, it went straight into public domain. You will notice such an absence in almost any railroad-published document. The same is true of most AAR documents I have seen.

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; e-mail, tony@...
Publishers of books on railroad history






Re: Photo: Unloading Fruit From A Livestock Car

Jeff Ward
 

Interesting photo of the scrap rubber drive posted by Bob Chaparro.

https://aadl.org/sites/default/files/photos/N082_0371_001.jpg

Of note (to me at least) is the Durea underframe slack adjuster mechanism under the right side of the door.

Jeff Ward
Norwalk, CT


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] PRR X28A

mopacfirst
 

Elden:

Thanks.  That's clearer than the F&C drawing.

Ron Merrick


Re: Requesting instructions for Wright Trak Seaboard V10

Eric Hansmann
 

Here’s some info on a few Seaboard ventilated boxcar classes. Wright Trak had produced the V9 and V10 class cars as HO scale resin kit models.

The Seaboard Air Line installed 2,150 V9 class ventilated boxcars in 1922. The Chickasaw Car & Shipbuilding built 1,250 cars (28000-29249) and Pressed Steel Car built an additional 900 cars (89000-89899). SAL added another 1,000 cars in 1923 of the V10 class, all built by Pressed Steel Car (79000-79999).

The V8 class cars were built by Pressed Steel Car in 1914 (27500-27961). These had a fishbelly side sill. Other early SAL ventilated boxcars also had a fishbelly side sill.

Larry Goolsby wrote about the Seaboard ventilated boxcar fleet in the 1st Q 1998 issue of Lines South.

The January 1943 ORER  lists 3,046 ventilated boxcars on the SAL.

27000-27961 - 9 cars (possibly V8 class)
28000-29249 - 1,206 cars (V9 class)
79000-79999 - 969 cars (V10 class)
89000-89899 - 862 cars (V9 class)

A note indicates all these cars were equipped with Wine ventilators.

The 1943 SAL ventilated boxcar fleet was the third largest. Central of Georgia (3,647) and Atlantic Coast Line (3,244) were the top two. The total of all CoG, ACL, and SAL ventilated cars was 72% of the 13,810 US railroad ventilated boxcars in the 1943 ORER.

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2020 8:44 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Requesting instructions for Wright Trak Seaboard V10

 

Lark Cooper wrote: While I’m not a y'all road modeler, one of these neat cars could occasionally make an appearance.

 

   That could be said even if you were modeling some of the roads in Eastern Canada.

 

Cordialy, Don Valentine