Date   

Re: Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

    That's absolutely correct Garth. Have my 1919 Car Builders Cyc. open right here. I'll have to check again with friends
in Montreal as this car, CPR #24000, has been discussed with them before. I don't believe more than a ver few were
construcged, if mre than one, as an experimentaal because the CPR seemed dedicated to the Dominion car examples 
of which arfe in the succeeding pages of rhe 1919 Car Builders Cyc. Surprizingly a photo and drawings for rhe Union Pacific
single sheathed 50 ft. car that Walthers used the drawings for the prototype of thier model that I raised questions about this
week can also be foudn in the 1919 Car Builders. Guess I need to look trhough them more ofen!

   Not ot reain on Mel's parade but I believe this car predates he B&O's efforts with their wagon top construction.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Westerfield NB box car

Clark Propst
 

Donald B. Valentine
5:32pm   
 Yes, a nice car, but since you have stated USRA NYC steel cars, Bruce, I'll bite. Just how close
are those cars to the NYC steel cars that Broadway Limied di a run off? 

I'm no expert, but I think the main difference in the roof. Many if not all the NYC cars received rectangular or diagonal panel roofs. Diagonal being the last type applied. The Westerfield NB kit I have came with doors for NB, HC and NYC. The differences seem to be, besides doors. the brake component arrangement and different car puller connections. The body came with a loop style attached to the side side (molded on). To change to a NB or HC car these would need to be shaved off and replaced with some made from flat iron with a rectangular slot. These were welded to the car side. This was done as built or by Universal Cement the original owners.
That's all I got...
CW Propst 


Re: Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

John Riddell
 

CP 24000 was a single all-steel car built in November  1914 (lot 237) by the Canadian Car & Foundry Co. Limited in Montreal. It carried lettering indicating it was to carry  grain from Port McNicoli,  Ontario and St. John, New Brunswick. It had a capacity of 2610 cu ft, , inside length 36-0, inside width 8-7, inside height 8-4.  It had a grain door at the top of the A end. It had a capacity of 80,000 lbs.

 

Six months earlier in June 1914, CC&F built an almost identical car which builders photos show it lettered for CC&F and numbered CC&F 201.

 

John Riddell

 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 


Re: IM Deco End Car Question

Guy Wilber
 


Al Smith wrote

“That symbol on the door may be an early indicator of load restraining devices in the car. Maybe someone with more info on these devices and what symbols were used can give a better explanation.”

From the archives, the symbol is covered in the last paragraph:

 Guy Wilber
11/27/13   

Tim asked:
 
 
"Is there a similar document for the stencils that you have described?"
 
Yes, the Plates within Section L of the AAR Manual of Standard and Recommended Practice.
 
 
"I often see this bar-ball stencil with or without lines above and below, and another common door stencil is a circle with a vertical line.  Also a bar-ball with vertical lines on each side. (Which I always thought meant the car was equipped with movable bulkheads.)"
 
 
Plate 42-A was adopted in August of 1946.  The figure was a 5" diameter ball centered over a 10" long x 3" high solid bar.  Applied, the figure signified cars equipped to handle auto parts.
 
In 1959 the Car Construction Committee was requested to develop figures which would signify cars equipped with Evans DF, Spartan Tri-Belt and Transco S-L load restraining devices. 
 
The figure developed to signify cars equipped with bar type restraining systems (as above) was the same as 42-A with the addition of two 7-1/2" long x 1-1/2" high bars placed horizontally above and below the key slot.
 
The figure developed to signify cars equipped with movable bulkheads was the same as 42-A with the addition of two  7-1/2" x 1-1/2" vertical bars bracketing the key slot. 
 
At that same time Plate 42-A was incorporated into the same grouping with the caption, "Method of marking cars equipped for handling  containers."
 
The figures (presented as Plate 42-B) were approved and became effective on March 1, 1960.
 
The circle with the vertical bar was Plate 42-D adopted in 1953.  The figure was a 6" inch in diameter x 1" thick circle with a 1" thick vertical bar.  The figure was stenciled on cars equipped with permanent lading strap anchors.  



Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada
guy
_._,_._,_


Re: Westerfield NB box car

Bruce Smith
 

Don,

I'm no expert on these cars, but the BLI cars has been discussed here extensively, and so its features are well described. They boil down to WWII/post WWII modernized cars. I'm not sure what the details on the NB cars are, but I think that they've been mentioned in this thread. I haven't paid attention to these specific cars as the NYC fleet is really the one of impact, with around 30,000 cars, similar to the PRR 29,000 X29s.

Regards,
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Donald B. Valentine via Groups.Io <riverman_vt@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 7:32 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NB box car
 
   Yes, a nice car, but since you have stated USRA NYC steel cars, Bruce, I'll bite. Just how close
are those cars to the NYC steel cars that Broadway Limied di a run off? Can't believe they haven't
done another run of those cars inspite of soe nit-picking be a few. I gae them three additional numbers
for Boston & Albany cars that were nown t have lasted into the 1960's so they could offer four different
numbers and Bob Grubba has never responded. Also provised details that coiud be easiy changed to 
get a DL&W car out of it as well. I know they took heat over the solid box of four, as the should have,
instead of four individual cars bundled as a four pack a dealer could break down but that's not a vaild
reason not to produce another run. Wonder if the N&B car might come out of this as well with a new 
door style.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Bruce Smith
 

Interesting!  A bit earlier than the PRR's class X36 103500, their 9/25/1936 example of an outside post boxcar, well before these became popular!

(photo posted to Rob Schoewnberg's page, from the collection of Bill Lane)

Regards,
Bruce 
Bruce Smith
Auburn, Al


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 6:45 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo: CP Boxcar 24000
 

Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Courtesy of Model Railroader, an early vertical rib boxcar:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/Scanned%20foe-toes/Copy%20of%20CPR%20BOXCAR007.jpg

No information provided to accompany the photo.

Experimental car or put into service in meaningful numbers?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: IM Deco End Car Question

Allan Smith
 

That symbol on the door may be an early indicator of load restraining devices in the car. Maybe someone with more info on these devices and what symbols were used can give a better explanation.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 05:06:17 PM PDT, Rod Miller <rod@...> wrote:


Photos of the car the Rich Yoder imported can be seen at:

www.rodmiller.com/forsale.html#yoder_box


--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com




Re: Tim O'Conner's Breakdown of Dan Hall’s Southwest Scale Productions Door Parts w/Link

James E Kubanick
 

Thanks, Tim and Bill. That will be very useful reference information.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

On Saturday, March 28, 2020, 8:31:31 PM EDT, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


I have taken Tim O'Conner's VERY help post on the Resin Builder's IO group today and re-organized it a bit—hope this okay with you Tim—and put in both a Word doc (so you can make your own notes on it) and as a PDF in case for some reason you cannot open  a Word doc.

Thank you Tim!!!

Bill Welch


Re: Westerfield NB box car

Donald B. Valentine <riverman_vt@...>
 

   Yes, a nice car, but since you have stated USRA NYC steel cars, Bruce, I'll bite. Just how close
are those cars to the NYC steel cars that Broadway Limied di a run off? Can't believe they haven't
done another run of those cars inspite of soe nit-picking be a few. I gae them three additional numbers
for Boston & Albany cars that were nown t have lasted into the 1960's so they could offer four different
numbers and Bob Grubba has never responded. Also provised details that coiud be easiy changed to 
get a DL&W car out of it as well. I know they took heat over the solid box of four, as the should have,
instead of four individual cars bundled as a four pack a dealer could break down but that's not a vaild
reason not to produce another run. Wonder if the N&B car might come out of this as well with a new 
door style.

Cordially, Don Valentine


Tim O'Conner's Breakdown of Dan Hall’s Southwest Scale Productions Door Parts w/Link

Bill Welch
 
Edited

I have taken Tim O'Conner's VERY helpful post on the Resin Builder's IO group today and re-organized it a bit—hope this okay with you Tim—and put in both a Word doc (so you can make your own notes on it) and as a PDF in case for some reason you cannot open  a Word doc.

Thank you Tim!!!

Bill Welch


Re: IM Deco End Car Question

Rod Miller
 

Photos of the car the Rich Yoder imported can be seen at:

www.rodmiller.com/forsale.html#yoder_box


--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com


Re: IM Deco End Car Question

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Friends,

Before we get lost here, my original question was about the circle with the bar on the door, its meaning and whether there was some special assignment for these cars. The rest of the information about repainting is interesting, but not what I was looking for. My fault for not keeping my own comments on target.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:40 PM <dalemuir2@...> wrote:

[Edited Message Follows]

My research tells me the "For Progress" logo was applied with new PS1 boxcars starting in 1948. It was applied to older cars as they were repainted.

Here's the answer from
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/37166

Begin quote

Thu, 2019-08-01 04:10 — Tom Patterson

From Tom Dixon's book The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway at Mid-Century, "C&O first began using the logo and slogan 'C&O for Progress' in early 1948. As far as we can learn, the first cars to carry the logo were the PS-1 Box Cars delivered by Pullman Standard in January 1948." Tom goes on to say that all freight cars bore the new logo, so any new equipment or equipment repainted after January 1948 would have had the For Progress logo. However, given the amount of equipment on the railroad and the timeframes for repainting freight cars, I'd imagine there were cars that made it into the Chessie era without the For Progress logo.

Tom Patterson

Modeling the free-lanced Chesapeake, Wheeling & Erie Railroad, Summer 1976

End quote

Dale Muir
Geneva, IL


Re: Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob,

The photo was probably from the 1919 CAR BUILDERS' DICTIONARY, pages 253-255 (also in the Gregg TSC reprint #35). These pages also include detailed drawings. No other information is there.

Yours Aye,

Garth Groff  🦆


On Sat, Mar 28, 2020 at 7:45 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Courtesy of Model Railroader, an early vertical rib boxcar:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/Scanned%20foe-toes/Copy%20of%20CPR%20BOXCAR007.jpg

No information provided to accompany the photo.

Experimental car or put into service in meaningful numbers?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

mel perry
 

looks like a early copy cat of the b&o
wagon top
mel perry

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 4:45 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Courtesy of Model Railroader, an early vertical rib boxcar:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/Scanned%20foe-toes/Copy%20of%20CPR%20BOXCAR007.jpg

No information provided to accompany the photo.

Experimental car or put into service in meaningful numbers?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: CP Boxcar 24000

Courtesy of Model Railroader, an early vertical rib boxcar:

https://hosting.photobucket.com/albums/b399/doctorwayne/Scanned%20foe-toes/Copy%20of%20CPR%20BOXCAR007.jpg

No information provided to accompany the photo.

Experimental car or put into service in meaningful numbers?

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: IM Deco End Car Question

dalemuir2@...
 
Edited

My research tells me the "For Progress" logo was applied with new PS1 boxcars starting in 1948. It was applied to older cars as they were repainted.

Here's the answer from
https://model-railroad-hobbyist.com/node/37166

Begin quote

From Tom Dixon's book The Chesapeake & Ohio Railway at Mid-Century, "C&O first began using the logo and slogan 'C&O for Progress' in early 1948. As far as we can learn, the first cars to carry the logo were the PS-1 Box Cars delivered by Pullman Standard in January 1948." Tom goes on to say that all freight cars bore the new logo, so any new equipment or equipment repainted after January 1948 would have had the For Progress logo. However, given the amount of equipment on the railroad and the timeframes for repainting freight cars, I'd imagine there were cars that made it into the Chessie era without the For Progress logo.

Tom Patterson

Modeling the free-lanced Chesapeake, Wheeling & Erie Railroad, Summer 1976

End quote

Dale Muir
Geneva, IL


Index to 101 Years of Chicago, Burlington & Quincy Official Minute Books and Records on 35 mm Microfilm 1849 to 1950 and C.E. Perkins Papers 1863-1907 Microfilm

Charlie Vlk
 

Fellow Railroad Researchers-

Please excuse the off-topic post but I need help on research:

I am hoping that somebody on one of the lists I participate in is a more
accomplished web researcher or perhaps an actual reference librarian that
has some tricks up their sleeve as I have hit a dead end looking for some
CB&Q-related microfilms.
The records were microfilmed in 1949 by the CB&Q, Newberry Library, State
Historical Society of Colorado, and the Denver Public Library and each of
the participants received a copy of the rolls of microfilm. They covered
CB&Q Board Meeting Minutes and other records that are currently in the
Newberry and in fragile condition. I have contacted the three institutions
involved and made some inquiries at the BNSF but nobody has any knowledge of
the whereabouts of any of the sets.

A couple of years ago I ran across an online detailed catalog description of
each of the 45 or so CB&Q microfilm rolls and an additional 15 or so on C.E.
Perkins papers 1863-1907 with call numbers in some online catalog of a
library or college library. AFAIK it was a simple Google search. I
somehow lost the link and cannot find it again after trying every
conceivable search term and variation thereof that I can think of. I am
hoping that the institution that took the time to transcribe the Index and
assign call numbers to the CB&Q and Perkins microfilms has the rolls in
their collection. I would like to obtain a copy of the films or pay to have
them digitized so that research could be done remotely without further
degrading valuable historical documents and having to travel to Chicago.

Any ideas on finding this website beyond the normal Google, Bing, etc.
search engines???

Thank you,
Charlie Vlk


Here is the print citation for the microfilm indexes. I have a hardcopy of
the mimeographed original index.

From the American Archivist review of the Indexes which appeared in the
Division of State Archives, State Historical Society of Colorado. Bulletin
No. (N. p. May, 1951. Pp. 14. Hectograph "The first index is a boon to
researchers seeking data on the CB&Q, the Colorado and Southern, and their
predecessor companies. It reveals the type of material available, the dates
covered and the microfilm roll numbers. The C. E. Perkins Papers
(restricted) and the secondary works receive the same clear treatment.
According to State Archivist Dolores C. Renze the microfilm work was done
over an eighteen months' period as a project for the benefit 64 THE AMERICAN
ARCHIVIST the State Historical Society of Colorado, the Western History the
Denver Public Library, the Newberry Library, and the railroad itselves. It
reflects the encouraging trend: to preserve and centralize records via
microfilming."


Re: Westerfield NB box car

mel perry
 

thank you all very much
:-)
sent from solitary
mel perry

On Sat, Mar 28, 2020, 3:04 PM Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:
Mel,

No. It proceeded the X29. These, as discussed earlier in this thread, are the NYC "USRA" steel boxcars. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 4:34 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NB box car
 
out of curiousity, is this car a derivative
of the X29?
thanks
sent from solitary
:-)
mel perry

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 11:37 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
I won a Westerfield NB box car as a door prize at CCB. Started on the kit this morning. Beautiful one piece body model BTW. Chances of seeing one of these cars around here are slim to none.There's plenty of info on NYC cars in the history sheets supplied. Don't know just how close this model is to them, but I'm guess it's the same.  I model 48-50 so I'm guessing  the NYC roofs were replaced? The Hannibal Connecting had the same cars as the NB. 'Might' be a better chance of seeing one of those here? Can I do a NYC car with a flat panel roof and three panel door?
Thanks, 
CW Propst


Re: Westerfield NB box car

Bruce Smith
 

Mel,

No. It proceeded the X29. These, as discussed earlier in this thread, are the NYC "USRA" steel boxcars. 

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> on behalf of mel perry <clipper841@...>
Sent: Saturday, March 28, 2020 4:34 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Westerfield NB box car
 
out of curiousity, is this car a derivative
of the X29?
thanks
sent from solitary
:-)
mel perry

On Sun, Mar 22, 2020, 11:37 AM Clark Propst <cepropst@q.com> wrote:
I won a Westerfield NB box car as a door prize at CCB. Started on the kit this morning. Beautiful one piece body model BTW. Chances of seeing one of these cars around here are slim to none.There's plenty of info on NYC cars in the history sheets supplied. Don't know just how close this model is to them, but I'm guess it's the same.  I model 48-50 so I'm guessing  the NYC roofs were replaced? The Hannibal Connecting had the same cars as the NB. 'Might' be a better chance of seeing one of those here? Can I do a NYC car with a flat panel roof and three panel door?
Thanks, 
CW Propst


Re: Westerfield NB box car

Ken
 

Mel,
Six side posts per side instead of eight on X-29.
 
Ken Gross

9961 - 9980 of 180948