Date   

Re: Masochism: The Building of a Sunshine Standard Brands Vinegar Ta

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes-

Tichy makes tank car pipe stanchions too, although I don't know
if they are accurate for any of the Sunshine kits.
If I am not mistaken, Southern C&F uses the Tichy stanchions- which do
really look nice-, but also seem to be available only in Tichy's Tank
Car Set (formerly Gould). These Tichy stanchions are similar to that
provided with the Vinegar Tank Car kit, while the PSC stanchions have
a slightly longer mounting flange with high relief rivet detailing.

However, the wall thickness of encircling pipe holders are as
follows: 1) Sunshine Vinegar Tank: c. 2.5"; 2) Tichy c. 2.0"; and 3)
PSC 1-1/2". The rivet/bolt detailing on the PSC is superior, with the
Tichy only very slightly behind. The Sunshine stanchions are cookie
cutter plain.

I am sticking with the PSC -lovely parts.

Now (*now*)- and this is new wrinkle just noted on the photos enclosed
with this ever-challenging car kit: None of the handrail stanchions
along the sides of the car are actually mounted on the tank directly.
They are instead all bolted directly on to strategically placed rod
tighteners with plain pipe holders of stanchions that look like none
of the above! Of course, there is no note of this in the directions;
Although -with thought- such mounting makes sense, now -again, within
sight of completion, the kit builder faces yet another unexpected
demand on time, ingenuity, and the drive to replicate the prototype.

Right now, my inclination is to look into mounting the stanchions on
the bands securing the tank to the frame- certainly a common stanchion
mount location on more numerous and less exotic tank cars.

I will see what I might be able to do with parts photos. No promises.

Denny



Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: Modeling LCL

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Clark Propst, quoting Len Vick, wrote:
"Freight forwarders were a private business doing volume LCL for various points. Minneapolis had two of them, National and Universal carloading."
Were not these firms acting as freight consolidators? and did they not complete their service by local trucking delivery?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Masochism

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Tony,
 
         The list is dependant upon how many kits you are trying to build at one time.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Fri, 11/6/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Masochism
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 4:25 PM


 



Fred Freitas wrote:
GUYZ,
These are the kits that require prescription meds.
Viagra --------- to keep your neck straight while manipulating small
parts.
Prosac --------- to maintain a joyful attitude toward the project.
Valium ----------to relax once you put the tweezers down.
Thorazine ------to keep you quiet the rest of the night.
Gee, Fred, I never knew my usual microbrew should be replaced
with powerful pharmaceuticals <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Modeling LCL

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

I was corrected on one of my interpretations of one of Mark Vaughan's LCL definitions.


"Freight forwarders were a private business doing volume LCL for various points. Minneapolis had two of them, National and Universal carloading." Len Vick

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: Masochism

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Fred Freitas wrote:
GUYZ,
These are the kits that require prescription meds.
Viagra --------- to keep your neck straight while manipulating small parts.
Prosac --------- to maintain a joyful attitude toward the project.
Valium ----------to relax once you put the tweezers down.
Thorazine ------to keep you quiet the rest of the night.
Gee, Fred, I never knew my usual microbrew should be replaced with powerful pharmaceuticals <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Masochism: The Building of a Sunshine Standard Brands Vinegar Ta

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,
 
         These are the kits that require prescription meds.
 
Viagra --------- to keep your neck straight while manipulating small parts.
 
Prosac --------- to maintain a joyful attitude toward the project.
 
Valium ----------to relax once you put the tweezers down.
 
Thorazine ------to keep you quiet the rest of the night.
 
Failing to have the above items; try something about 120 proof before bed. That way you won't scare the family by swearing in your sleep. After 50 years of building railroad equipment my wife is certain I need all of the above, and a bigger magnifier to look throiugh.
 
Fred Freitas
dealing with resin disorder weekly

--- On Fri, 11/6/09, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Masochism: The Building of a Sunshine Standard Brands Vinegar Ta
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, November 6, 2009, 3:50 PM


 




Can someone post a photo of the PSC #32110 stanchions to the
photos area? Also a photo of the PSC brake line brackets (#??)

Denny once posted some shots showing the brackets but they are
very small and I can't really make out the bracket design.

Tichy makes tank car pipe stanchions too, although I don't know
if they are accurate for any of the Sunshine kits.

Tim O'Connor

Pierre, that is exactly my plan. The PSC (#32110) stanchions are
pretty precise, enough IMHO to overcome the fact that they are a
totally different article than those cast resin stanchions in the kit
that supposedly replicate the prototype. I am also using PSC's 90º
pipe elbows.

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Railshops H31A

Eric Mumper
 

Group,

Does anybody have more information on the Railshops PRR H31A? They were not at Naperville this year and I was really hoping they would come to market with these. The samples last year were wonderful.


Eric Mumper


Re: SP paint & lettering

Tim O'Connor
 

Maybe it was one of the thousands of cars that stood under
Missouri River floodwaters in Kansas City -- that could sure
ruin a paint job! :-)

Tim O'Connor

At 11/6/2009 03:56 PM Friday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
That particular car could have been repainted in the mid 1950's (the
reporting marks originally had lines above and below as was standard
practice in the 1940's) so they may have decided just to patch it as
the paint appears to be in excellent shape.
Tim refers to the photo on page 48 of RP Cyc 17. SP discontinued
use of the lines or stripes in February 1952, so the lettering clearly
postdates that; and might date from any time up to the end of the
spelled-out road name in the mid-1950s. Since the car was rebuilt in
1949, this repainting within a few years was likely the result of a
repair.

Tony Thompson


Re: Masochism

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Can someone post a photo of the PSC #32110 stanchions to the photos area? Also a photo of the PSC brake line brackets (#??)
Tim, most tank car upgrading or construction articles in recent years have used the PSC stanchions, including Ted Culotta's article in the July 09 RMC. Ted's close-ups should show you all you need. Their great advantage is that they are brass and thus STURDY, unlike the styrene ones by Tichy, etc. They can also be installed "right side up" or "down," depending on whether the prototype had the stanchions supporting the handrail from below or above.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: SP paint & lettering

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
That particular car could have been repainted in the mid 1950's (the reporting marks originally had lines above and below as was standard practice in the 1940's) so they may have decided just to patch it as the paint appears to be in excellent shape.
Tim refers to the photo on page 48 of RP Cyc 17. SP discontinued use of the lines or stripes in February 1952, so the lettering clearly postdates that; and might date from any time up to the end of the spelled-out road name in the mid-1950s. Since the car was rebuilt in 1949, this repainting within a few years was likely the result of a repair.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Masochism: The Building of a Sunshine Standard Brands Vinegar Ta

Tim O'Connor
 

Can someone post a photo of the PSC #32110 stanchions to the
photos area? Also a photo of the PSC brake line brackets (#??)

Denny once posted some shots showing the brackets but they are
very small and I can't really make out the bracket design.

Tichy makes tank car pipe stanchions too, although I don't know
if they are accurate for any of the Sunshine kits.

Tim O'Connor

Pierre, that is exactly my plan. The PSC (#32110) stanchions are
pretty precise, enough IMHO to overcome the fact that they are a
totally different article than those cast resin stanchions in the kit
that supposedly replicate the prototype. I am also using PSC's 90�
pipe elbows.

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: SP paint & lettering

Tim O'Connor
 

Elden Gatwood wrote

The photo of the B-50-12A in RPCyc has intrigued me. It appears they added a
paint patch, and then the new number, but no Billboard or other changes. So
that might be an example of one they just didn't bother fully repainting?
That particular car could have been repainted in the mid 1950's (the
reporting marks originally had lines above and below as was standard
practice in the 1940's) so they may have decided just to patch it as
the paint appears to be in excellent shape.

I have an older Microscale SP set that contains several sizes of Billboard
lettering. Did 1955-57 "Add On" billboards have lettering of one size, and
full repaints which got the billboard on the right, another? Or were they
all the same size, and in either case, what size?
They were all the same size, although I can't vouch for the Microscale set
being correct. I do know the CHAMP lettering is the correct size, and isn't
as "neon bright" as the Microscale lettering. CDS also did this lettering.

I have a shot of B-50-24 SP #97714 - an "Overnight" box car -- that got a
box car red repaint with Roman lettering Southern Pacific reporting mark,
no medallion, and no bold road name. Totally spartan!

Photos also show silver Overnight cars (repainted from original black) with
box car red patches for the car number and no other changes. By the later
1950's most of the Overnight cars travelled freely around the country as
plain ordinary box cars.

Tim O'Connor


ACL Lowside Gondola

Justin Kahn
 

Many thanks to those who provided me with the pdf from the SCL webpage, especially Larry Kline, Dave Sieber, and Jerry Glowacki.
I am now in pretty good shape when I get to work on my kit.
One question (perhaps to Richard, who did the original article): what kind of brakewheel for the original vertical-staff mount?

Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.




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Re: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other classes)

Tim O'Connor
 

Sorry I wasn't clear.

I meant fully repainted cars after 1957. I think the practice of
partial repaints continued after 1957 so that some cars still got
to keep their medallions w/ 1958 and later repaints.

Certainly full repaints, and new cars, mid-1955-fall-1957 got both
medallions and bold road name. A few cars even got gothic reporting
marks, but that's another story... :-)

Tim

FULLY repainted cars are easy to spot -- the medallion is gone and
the bold Southern Pacific road name is now on the right side of the
car.
I'm not sure what Tim means to say here, but the SP lettering
drawings DID show the billboard lettering ALONG WITH the medallion
until the medallion was removed in the fall of 1957. So the impression
should not be given that any "FULLY repainted" car would not have a
medallion. They certainly did get medallions until late 1957.

Tony Thompson


Re: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other classes)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks again, Tony!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 3:17 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other
classes)



Elden Gatwood wrote:
The photo of the B-50-12A in RPCyc has intrigued me. It appears they
added a paint patch, and then the new number, but no Billboard or
other changes. So that might be an example of one they just didn't
bother fully repainting?
Yep. I have a couple of images which show that.

I have an older Microscale SP set that contains several sizes of
Billboard lettering. Did 1955-57 "Add On" billboards have lettering of
one size, and full repaints which got the billboard on the right,
another? Or were they all the same size, and in either case, what
size?
The usual in the late 1950s was 24-inch high "S" and "P" with the rest of the
road name spelled out in 16-inch letters. But there are instances of cars
with smaller lettering when this large of a size would not fit. In 1962, SP
adopted for awhile a gothic lettering with all characters in 24-inch size,
but in the 1970s went back to the larger initials S and P (again, 24 and 16
inches).
So the Microscale lettering (other than the standard 24/16
style) needs to be matched to photos to select the correct sizes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other classes)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Elden Gatwood wrote:
The photo of the B-50-12A in RPCyc has intrigued me. It appears they added a paint patch, and then the new number, but no Billboard or other changes. So that might be an example of one they just didn't bother fully repainting?
Yep. I have a couple of images which show that.

I have an older Microscale SP set that contains several sizes of Billboard lettering. Did 1955-57 "Add On" billboards have lettering of one size, and full repaints which got the billboard on the right, another? Or were they all the same size, and in either case, what size?
The usual in the late 1950s was 24-inch high "S" and "P" with the rest of the road name spelled out in 16-inch letters. But there are instances of cars with smaller lettering when this large of a size would not fit. In 1962, SP adopted for awhile a gothic lettering with all characters in 24-inch size, but in the 1970s went back to the larger initials S and P (again, 24 and 16 inches).
So the Microscale lettering (other than the standard 24/16 style) needs to be matched to photos to select the correct sizes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other classes)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

But there WERE cars with new Billboard names added, on top of the old paint?
Interesting...

The photo of the B-50-12A in RPCyc has intrigued me. It appears they added a
paint patch, and then the new number, but no Billboard or other changes. So
that might be an example of one they just didn't bother fully repainting?

I have an older Microscale SP set that contains several sizes of Billboard
lettering. Did 1955-57 "Add On" billboards have lettering of one size, and
full repaints which got the billboard on the right, another? Or were they
all the same size, and in either case, what size?

Thanks for this most interesting discussion,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 2:55 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other
classes)



Tim O'Connor wrote:
In 1955 SP began applying the large gothic road name -- this was
placed to the left of the door, while the medallion remained on the
right. It's my theory that many cars simply got the new bold road name
and number (after 1956) and the medallion was simply left alone.
This is certainly true. Some photos clearly show the medallion paint as a
little dirty and faded, compared to the new lettering. But many others show
all new lettering, including medallions.

FULLY repainted cars are easy to spot -- the medallion is gone and the
bold Southern Pacific road name is now on the right side of the car.
I'm not sure what Tim means to say here, but the SP lettering drawings DID
show the billboard lettering ALONG WITH the medallion until the medallion was
removed in the fall of 1957. So the impression should not be given that any
"FULLY repainted" car would not have a medallion. They certainly did get
medallions until late 1957.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other classes)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
In 1955 SP began applying the large gothic road name -- this was placed to the left of the door, while the medallion remained on the right. It's my theory that many cars simply got the new bold road name and number (after 1956) and the medallion was simply left alone.
This is certainly true. Some photos clearly show the medallion paint as a little dirty and faded, compared to the new lettering. But many others show all new lettering, including medallions.

FULLY repainted cars are easy to spot -- the medallion is gone and the bold Southern Pacific road name is now on the right side of the car.
I'm not sure what Tim means to say here, but the SP lettering drawings DID show the billboard lettering ALONG WITH the medallion until the medallion was removed in the fall of 1957. So the impression should not be given that any "FULLY repainted" car would not have a medallion. They certainly did get medallions until late 1957.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tangent G-70-12 for other classes

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
OOoh! Ooooh!! I get to correct Tony!!! :-)
The SP billboard lettering began in 1955. SP's B-50-36 and B-50-37 double door box cars cars were delivered with billboard (aka gothic) roadname plus b&w medallions.
Tim is right. I should have double-checked before sending. The billboard lettering was first applied to cars in the summer of 1955 as an experiment, and adopted as the new standard that fall. The 1956 renumbering didn't start until mid-1956. Obviously I got these reversed in my previous post.
All I had to do was look at my own SP freight car books :>(

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: SP paint & lettering (was Tangent G-70-12 for other classes)

Tim O'Connor
 

Elden

I have wondered myself how SP cars were treated when renumbered.
For example, some of these cars were not old at all when they
were renumbered, so why repaint them entirely?

In 1955 SP began applying the large gothic road name -- this was
placed to the left of the door, while the medallion remained on
the right. It's my theory that many cars simply got the new bold
road name and number (after 1956) and the medallion was simply
left alone.

My comments about right and left positions refer only to
single door box cars. On double and combination door cars
SP in 1955 began putting reporting marks and road name to
the right and medallion to the left. I have a beautiful photo
of SP 64007 A-50-13 repainted this way in 1955.

FULLY repainted cars are easy to spot -- the medallion is gone
and the bold Southern Pacific road name is now on the right side
of the car. On gondolas, since the bold road name was centered
on the side, the medallion remained in place forever on some cars
(it can be seen on gondolas into the 1980's).

Tim O'Connor

Thank you for all of those insights, Tony!

Elden "I am now wondering how to paint a B-50-12A in its new number" Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Friday, November 06, 2009 2:04 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tangent G-70-12 for other classes



Gatwood, Elden wrote:
Did the fall '57 "new look" go immediately to Billboard, or were there
variations in there, too? Is the Athearn billboard-painted 65- foot
gon accurately painted, as far as you can tell?
The renumbering we SP folk all call the 1956 renumbering really started in
1955, whereas the billboard gothic lettering came in 1956. There are
examples, though not many, of repainted and renumbered cars which did not get
the billboard scheme. But in general, any repainted car which was renumbered
can be assumed to have the billboard lettering too. The round medallion
continued to be used alongside the gothic billboard until the fall of 1957,
but was discontinued thereafter.

Also, I have seen a lot of 40-foot 10' IH SP box cars (as well as
earlier ATSF 40-footers) that stayed in their earlier schemes well
into the 1970's. Was this because of their later usage primarily as
seasonal grain loaders (and sitting much of their time otherwise
empty), or just because the RR didn't want to spend money on
repainting eqpt that didn't have that much longer?
I'm not privy to management perspectives on this, but certainly there were
older cars which got renumbering and not repainting. I can't supply reasons.
But SP didn't have that much grain service, so I don't think that rationale
helps much with the SP cars.

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