Date   

Re: Blacksmith Car

Dennis Storzek
 

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 03:31 AM, Scott H. Haycock wrote:
Would this car be the same as a blacksmith car?
Scott,
Where is this reference to a "blacksmith car" coming from?

Dennis Storzek


Re: Blacksmith Car

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Randy,

A small addition to your otherwise excellent information. The model blacksmith car goes back at least as far as Truescale, probably to around 1958 or 1959. The Truescale line of plastic MW cars was reissued by Train Miniature around 1969 or 1970.

The bits and pieces from this car would have been more appropriate in a model building.

It is interesting how some of these old models have been traded around between various producers for years. Walthers still has the tooling for the 50 to 60-year-old Truescale and TM cars. Every once and a while they find a way to squeeze a few more dollars out of them by some creative re-issue. Some Athearn cars go back to the early 1950s under the Globe name.

Yours Aye,


Garth Groff  🦆

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 1:06 PM Randy Hees <randyhees@...> wrote:
It appears that the "Blacksmith Car" is a myth created by the movie Union Pacific, which included such a car in their railroad equipment, that car having been built by the studio from a former Virginia and Truckee box car.   

That car was later offered as a HO model by Trains Miniature, now under control of Walthers.  The car as modeled carried a brick blacksmith's forge, with a large bellows, as well as a small hand cranked derick.  The blacksmith's work area took up almost half the car, leaving the rest for barrels and such. The reality was much more likely a portable iron forge with a Champion hand cranked blower, which would have been commercially available, and easily set up next to the repair car.  Such a forge (large enough to straighten a truss rod) and associated tools and equipment will fit in the back of a small pick-up truck (I did for a car repair/restoration at Railfair 99 in Sacramento).  The forge can be carried by two men.  We have a photo of such a forge on the SP in Oregon, being used for car repair.

The description of a "one man crew" would suggest that the repairs in place would more likely be light work, replacing a journal bearing, repairing a brake beam or rod, but with one man would not include a wheel set.  A wheel set is too heavy for one man to handle, and if an axle failed on the road, would likely call for a wreck train with a heavier derrick, with multiple men and supply of trucks and wheel sets.

The concept of a Blacksmith car makes the most sense if  the car and crew was responsible for tool maintenance during construction, not car repair.  But  it is more likely that a railroad under construction would just send light tools (shovels, rock drills, pinch bars) back to the first division point and shop where they could do the work in a better equipped permanent facility.

With all that being said I have one of the model blacksmith cars... 

Randy Hees


Re: Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

Robert kirkham
 


I have one of the hinged benders (its packed away right now so I can’t confirm the model).  It works fine for Yarmouth ladders etc.  But the hinged piece is both a liability and a help.  When clamping the ladder stiles into the tool, one has to navigate the hinged piece flopping about.  Also, the part can slip into the gap at the hinge, and if you twitch when it is partly caught in there, you can get an unwelcome fold line.  I avoid that successfully almost all the time, but need to be careful.

Before picking up the hinged version I used a straight edge version.  I didn’t like the risk associated with slipping a razor blade under the etch in order to fold it.  It was hard to insert a razor blade evenly, from end to end of the etch.  Instead, I found the blade tended to go under one portion of the etch, raise it slightly and that allowed the blade to go under the rest of the etch.  But this gradual insertion of the blade could distort the etch.  For example, the etched ladders can tend to torque at the etched holes for the ladder stiles, their weakest point.  

The hinged version removes that risk.  Generally I think it is a superior tool for folding along long skinny parts.

Rob    

 
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?
 
Looking at the benders for photo etched parts here:
http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/index.php?cPath=21_225

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts/preferences/comments on the"hinged" types (MN004/014, or UMS17/18/19) vs. the "razor blade" or "just a square edge" types (JMC003/4/5 or MN022A/B or PIR135/195/300 or RP08/13/18)?.
I have seen the comments earlier about the "finger knob" vs "Allen wrench type (SHCS)" tightening screws...
-- 
Ken Akerboom 



For Sale - PRR Broadway Limited Locomotives

Mark Stamm
 

Please reply off list at mark at euphoriatt dot com

 

The following BLI engines are from my personal collection and have been box kept. Nothing has more than an hour or two of run time and is excellent working order. Venmo, or PayPal Friends and Family only. Shipper of your choice from 18951. 

 

I will consider reasonable offers, but no trades. Happy to send as many picture as you like off list.

 

$275 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 009 PRR M1b 4-8-2 #6716

$275 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 049 PRR M1a 4-8-2 #6798

$260 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 088 PRR I1sa 2-10-0  #4471

$285 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 2480 PRR I1sa 2-10-0  #4262

$285 OBO - Broadway Limited Part Number 2050 PRR I1sa 2-10-0  #4649

 

Regard,

 

Mark Stamm

 

 

 


Re: Blacksmith Car

Randy Hees
 

It appears that the "Blacksmith Car" is a myth created by the movie Union Pacific, which included such a car in their railroad equipment, that car having been built by the studio from a former Virginia and Truckee box car.   

That car was later offered as a HO model by Trains Miniature, now under control of Walthers.  The car as modeled carried a brick blacksmith's forge, with a large bellows, as well as a small hand cranked derick.  The blacksmith's work area took up almost half the car, leaving the rest for barrels and such. The reality was much more likely a portable iron forge with a Champion hand cranked blower, which would have been commercially available, and easily set up next to the repair car.  Such a forge (large enough to straighten a truss rod) and associated tools and equipment will fit in the back of a small pick-up truck (I did for a car repair/restoration at Railfair 99 in Sacramento).  The forge can be carried by two men.  We have a photo of such a forge on the SP in Oregon, being used for car repair.

The description of a "one man crew" would suggest that the repairs in place would more likely be light work, replacing a journal bearing, repairing a brake beam or rod, but with one man would not include a wheel set.  A wheel set is too heavy for one man to handle, and if an axle failed on the road, would likely call for a wreck train with a heavier derrick, with multiple men and supply of trucks and wheel sets.

The concept of a Blacksmith car makes the most sense if  the car and crew was responsible for tool maintenance during construction, not car repair.  But  it is more likely that a railroad under construction would just send light tools (shovels, rock drills, pinch bars) back to the first division point and shop where they could do the work in a better equipped permanent facility.

With all that being said I have one of the model blacksmith cars... 

Randy Hees


Re: Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

Jack Burgess
 

Ken…

 

I have a Photo Etch Bending tool and it works very well with photo-etched Running Board Braces from Yarmouth Model Works. I fabricated my first photo-etched ladder recently and used a MN004 UMM™ 3D Photo Etch Elbow Bender which worked very well. I then soldered the steps in place with the help of a Yarmouth Model Works Ladder Assembly Jig. Note: if you purchase one of these assembly jigs, you will need to purchase the bolts and nuts as indicated on the website. However, I could not find 6-32 x 1/2" bolts with the head the size needed by the jig. I ended up using the closes bolts I could find and using 5-minute epoxy to hold them in place.

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of akerboomk
Sent: Sunday, June 13, 2021 7:19 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

 

Looking at the benders for photo etched parts here:
http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/index.php?cPath=21_225

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts/preferences/comments on the"hinged" types (MN004/014, or UMS17/18/19) vs. the "razor blade" or "just a square edge" types (JMC003/4/5 or MN022A/B or PIR135/195/300 or RP08/13/18)?.
I have seen the comments earlier about the "finger knob" vs "Allen wrench type (SHCS)" tightening screws...
--
Ken Akerboom


Photo-etch benders - hinged vs "Razer blade" types?

akerboomk
 

Looking at the benders for photo etched parts here:
http://umm-usa.com/onlinestore/index.php?cPath=21_225

I was wondering if anyone had thoughts/preferences/comments on the"hinged" types (MN004/014, or UMS17/18/19) vs. the "razor blade" or "just a square edge" types (JMC003/4/5 or MN022A/B or PIR135/195/300 or RP08/13/18)?.
I have seen the comments earlier about the "finger knob" vs "Allen wrench type (SHCS)" tightening screws...
--
Ken Akerboom


Re: Blacksmith Car

Charles Peck
 

I would see a blacksmith and his car as attached to a Bridge Gang, sometimes called B&B.  Little need for forge work
and making parts on the spot for minor on the road repair.  On the road repair, as I see it, would most likely be draft
gear and truck work, or maybe brakes.  That sort of thing could largely be handled with standard parts.  No need to make
parts on site. 
Chuck Peck

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 6:31 AM Scott H. Haycock <shhaycock@...> wrote:
Folks,

I recently read a narrative by a professional railroader about a car used to repair bad order cars in place. This car, and its crew? one guy?, would be hauled  by a freight train to repair a car on-site. Would this car be the same as a blacksmith car? The description was of a car with a living space on one end, and tool storage on the other.


Scott Haycock


Blacksmith Car

Scott H. Haycock
 

Folks,

I recently read a narrative by a professional railroader about a car used to repair bad order cars in place. This car, and its crew? one guy?, would be hauled  by a freight train to repair a car on-site. Would this car be the same as a blacksmith car? The description was of a car with a living space on one end, and tool storage on the other.


Scott Haycock


Re: Reserves fully met: Great Northern 1954 rebuilt 50' SS auto car boxcar

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Am sorry. Meant to be private.
Staffan Ehnbom

On Sun, Jun 13, 2021 at 11:24 AM Staffan Ehnbom via groups.io <staffan.ehnbom=gmail.com@groups.io> wrote:
Andy,
You wrote:
 "along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame."
It sounds as if you say the original cars did not have cross-ties and cross members. That would be most unusual. That they had cross members is shown by the stringers which were fitted between  the cross members. Do you have access to the Jan 2016 RMC drawing? The 29000 series underframe was also a little different from the Westerfield 42000 series u-frame. I,ll try and attach a u-frame photo showing stringers.

Staffan

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 6:50 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
I have the 10 cars reserved. Thanks for those folks. My plans don't have me making more than these 10 cars.
Thanks,
-Andy

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 5:53:19 PM PDT, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:



The Great Northern had 1000s of early 1920s wood side box cars which had fishbelly structured underframes and early style of steel ends. In 1952 the GN initiated a rebuild of these cars into more useful all steel 8' single door box cars. The wood siding, flooring doors and roof were jettisoned to the trash heap. New riveted sides with post war Youngstown steel doors and a diagonal panel steel roof were placed onto the existing fish belly under frame and 6/5/5 Murphy corrugated ends. The cars were not heightened and remained at pre-rebuilt 10'0" IH.
Inline image

Bill Welch's  HO model from years ago.

The initial rebuilds were painted into the then standard GN Mineral Red scheme with a side ways facing goat. Early on quite a few were equipped with load dividers and were painted into at least 3 Orange and Green "loader" schemes. Even later, many received Vermillian red in slant serif and EB lettering plus Big Sky Blue and many Glacier Green schemes were done as well.

My work on this series of rebuilds was done years ago. At the time I was making these molds Bill Welch asked for a pair of sides as he had a Westerfield 1925 50' SS autocar, which were the types used for the rebuilding. I eventually tried an experimental technique to have the roof integrate the inclusion of the top gable shaped portion of the 6/5/5 corrugated ends. The end just needed to be horizontally flat across the top. While making the fit of the roof to the sides critically exact, the difficult-at-times of fitting roofs, sides and ends together with no gaps was made much easier.

I had made  a longer wheelbase fish belly under frame back then getting the striker distance to bolster center to 5'0".  I was to learn years later that GN did lots of modifications to the under frame for the rebuildings. Floor stringers which were not on the 1925 floors were added, along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame.

After some other current works which are placed ahead of this project are done I will complete the molds for this GN 50' rebuild box car. I am planning on making 10 casting sets which will be offered to the STMFC list at that time. If anyone wishes to have me reserve a non-obligated one of these cars for later purchase, feel free to ask. I am not accepting any up front money for these. Please note that these are not one-piece bodies.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




Re: Reserves fully met: Great Northern 1954 rebuilt 50' SS auto car boxcar

Staffan Ehnbom
 

Andy,
You wrote:
 "along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame."
It sounds as if you say the original cars did not have cross-ties and cross members. That would be most unusual. That they had cross members is shown by the stringers which were fitted between  the cross members. Do you have access to the Jan 2016 RMC drawing? The 29000 series underframe was also a little different from the Westerfield 42000 series u-frame. I,ll try and attach a u-frame photo showing stringers.

Staffan

On Thu, Jun 10, 2021 at 6:50 PM Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
I have the 10 cars reserved. Thanks for those folks. My plans don't have me making more than these 10 cars.
Thanks,
-Andy

On Wednesday, June 9, 2021, 5:53:19 PM PDT, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:



The Great Northern had 1000s of early 1920s wood side box cars which had fishbelly structured underframes and early style of steel ends. In 1952 the GN initiated a rebuild of these cars into more useful all steel 8' single door box cars. The wood siding, flooring doors and roof were jettisoned to the trash heap. New riveted sides with post war Youngstown steel doors and a diagonal panel steel roof were placed onto the existing fish belly under frame and 6/5/5 Murphy corrugated ends. The cars were not heightened and remained at pre-rebuilt 10'0" IH.
Inline image

Bill Welch's  HO model from years ago.

The initial rebuilds were painted into the then standard GN Mineral Red scheme with a side ways facing goat. Early on quite a few were equipped with load dividers and were painted into at least 3 Orange and Green "loader" schemes. Even later, many received Vermillian red in slant serif and EB lettering plus Big Sky Blue and many Glacier Green schemes were done as well.

My work on this series of rebuilds was done years ago. At the time I was making these molds Bill Welch asked for a pair of sides as he had a Westerfield 1925 50' SS autocar, which were the types used for the rebuilding. I eventually tried an experimental technique to have the roof integrate the inclusion of the top gable shaped portion of the 6/5/5 corrugated ends. The end just needed to be horizontally flat across the top. While making the fit of the roof to the sides critically exact, the difficult-at-times of fitting roofs, sides and ends together with no gaps was made much easier.

I had made  a longer wheelbase fish belly under frame back then getting the striker distance to bolster center to 5'0".  I was to learn years later that GN did lots of modifications to the under frame for the rebuildings. Floor stringers which were not on the 1925 floors were added, along with cross-ties and cross member which the originals did not have any of either. I have started adding these structural additions to my stretched frame.

After some other current works which are placed ahead of this project are done I will complete the molds for this GN 50' rebuild box car. I am planning on making 10 casting sets which will be offered to the STMFC list at that time. If anyone wishes to have me reserve a non-obligated one of these cars for later purchase, feel free to ask. I am not accepting any up front money for these. Please note that these are not one-piece bodies.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




Re: CGW reefer

Douglas Harding
 

Thanks to everyone who has offered information on CGW reefers. Greatly appreciated.

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of BRIAN PAUL EHNI
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 7:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CGW reefer

 

The only three CGW reefer photos I have.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 


Re: CGW reefer

 

The only three CGW reefer photos I have.

 

 

Thanks!
--

Brian Ehni

 

 


Re: CGW reefer

ROGER HINMAN
 

ACF built 200 reefers for CGW in 1910, ACL Lot 5828; there’s a photo of a car on the Westerfield ACF CD

Roger Hinman


On Jun 12, 2021, at 11:21 AM, wahsatch <wahsatch@...> wrote:

Doug,
 
Ck'd my 12/28 ORER - were 20 pass reffers in 4 #groups & 423 frt reefers in 9 groups. I can give you dims, ext, int, wts. The frt are 30T while the pass are 30T, 40T, & 50T. While later than 07, might show which group came from. In my 38 ORER, almost non-existent - 6!
 
-=- Bob Colquitt
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 9:07 AM
From: "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CGW reefer

Doug,

 

I just checked the files in my archive. I don’t have anything on CGW reefers.

 
 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 
 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 5:34 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] CGW reefer

 

Looking for information about CGW reefers, circa 1900-1910. Apparently there is an old CGW reefer body in Oelwein. If I recall it was purchased by an Italian immigrant in 1907 and made into a home. Then was later rented out to others. Now some folks are looking to preserve/restore the body. All that is know is that it was CGW reefer.

 

Does anyone have any information and/or photos of CGW reefers from that era?

 
 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 
 


Re: Rapido USRA Single Sheath Boxcar announced

brianleppert@att.net
 

I have read no comments about the incorrect upper door guide seen in Rapido's illustration.  It needs to extend farther to the right.

Brian Leppert
Carson
city, NV


Re: CGW reefer

wahsatch
 

Doug,
 
Ck'd my 12/28 ORER - were 20 pass reffers in 4 #groups & 423 frt reefers in 9 groups. I can give you dims, ext, int, wts. The frt are 30T while the pass are 30T, 40T, & 50T. While later than 07, might show which group came from. In my 38 ORER, almost non-existent - 6!
 
-=- Bob Colquitt
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2021 at 9:07 AM
From: "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...>
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] CGW reefer

Doug,

 

I just checked the files in my archive. I don’t have anything on CGW reefers.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 5:34 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] CGW reefer

 

Looking for information about CGW reefers, circa 1900-1910. Apparently there is an old CGW reefer body in Oelwein. If I recall it was purchased by an Italian immigrant in 1907 and made into a home. Then was later rented out to others. Now some folks are looking to preserve/restore the body. All that is know is that it was CGW reefer.

 

Does anyone have any information and/or photos of CGW reefers from that era?

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 

 


Re: CGW reefer

Eric Hansmann
 

Doug,

 

I just checked the files in my archive. I don’t have anything on CGW reefers.

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Douglas Harding
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 5:34 PM
To: STMFC <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] CGW reefer

 

Looking for information about CGW reefers, circa 1900-1910. Apparently there is an old CGW reefer body in Oelwein. If I recall it was purchased by an Italian immigrant in 1907 and made into a home. Then was later rented out to others. Now some folks are looking to preserve/restore the body. All that is know is that it was CGW reefer.

 

Does anyone have any information and/or photos of CGW reefers from that era?

 

 

Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org

 


Re: C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952

Mark Rossiter
 

All: I am surprised that there have not been more comments on the milk car shown in the referenced photo.  This is a National Car Company milk car.  It was somewhat revolutionary at the time and was an example of a relatively early application of the ‘intermodal’ concept.  The tanks were detachable for placement on trucks for local delivery.  There were several versions of this car.  Overland imported models of these cars and Funaro and Camerlengo did them in resin as well. 

 

For more information on the prototype and the models, look here: http://users.rcn.com/jimdu4/MilkTrains/NX_1487.htm

 

Mark Rossiter

 


Re: C&O 40ft steel gondola and a flat with removable milk containers - Renovo PA 1952

Kenneth Montero
 

Check the Borden milk cars. They and other milk cars had such trucks.
 
Ken Montero

On 06/11/2021 12:28 PM Bob Chaparro via groups.io <chiefbobbb@...> wrote:
 
 
Interesting trucks under the flat car.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Rapido USRA Single Sheath Boxcar announced

Ralph W. Brown
 

Hi Gerald,

I just checked the website again, and the numbers have been changed. This morning, I misspoke when I said last night, the two sets of numbers were the same, and were all four digits starting with a six. They're quite different now. Good news.

Thanks again. Thant's one less thing to cause me concern.

Pax,


Ralph Brown
Portland, Maine
PRRT&HS No. 3966
NMRA No. L2532

rbrown51[at]maine[dot]rr[dot]com

-----Original Message-----
From: Gerald Henriksen
Sent: Friday, June 11, 2021 7:42 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Rapido USRA Single Sheath Boxcar announced

On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 12:13:33 -0400, you wrote:

Rapido is offering the PRR X36, aka USRA single sheathed boxcar, with both
Youngstown and Creco doors. The website, however, shows the six car sets of
both versions will have the same six car numbers. I hoping that changes.
Don't know if they have changed it, but the website currently shows
different numbers for the 2 6-car offerings.

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