Date   

Re: 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Like Tony, I was mislead by the ORER listing showing "steel underframe"
reefer. This is usually code for "wood sided car" in the ORER. In the GT
listings the brine reefers are listed that way, and the AAR car type is
RAMH too. I didn't look at note JJ in the ORER that finally tells you the
cars had 8 overhead ice hatches.

Tim O'Connor

Tony, it's true that GTW had no steel reefers in 1953, but they did receive 100 all-steel 8-hatch copies of the Canadian design built by Pacific Car & Foundry in 1955 -- check that 1958 ORER again and look for the 206400 series

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
www.nakina.net


Re: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "brianleppert@..." <brianleppert@...> wrote:

There was a three part article on "Canada's eight-hatch iced refigerator cars" in Railroad Model Craftsman Dec. 1995, Jan. and Feb. '96.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV
Brian,

Thanks for the good info. I will begin searching for the info, although later posts here seem to indicate these may have been predominantly post-war cars, as mentioned earlier.

Dave Evans


Re: 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ian Cranstone wrote:
Tony, it's true that GTW had no steel reefers in 1953, but they did receive 100 all-steel 8-hatch copies of the Canadian design built by Pacific Car & Foundry in 1955 -- check that 1958 ORER again and look for the 206400 series
For the series 206400-206499, the January 1958 ORER says "refrig., steel underframe," as it does for the other reefers listed, and as it did for all the reefers in 1953. Are you saying this is an error?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Ian Cranstone
 

On Nov 4, 2009, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com> wrote:


Yes and no. There was a Grand Trunk Western Railroad

Company, and a Grand Trunk Railway System (lines in the U.S. east of

the Detroit and St. Clair rivers). Both were CN-connected, but Tim is

right that we usually think of the GTW. In 1953, the GTW had about

9800 freight cars, only 230 of which were reefers; at that time, none

were shown as all-steel cars having overhead ice tanks. The same was

true in the January 1958 ORER.




Tony, it's true that GTW had no steel reefers in 1953, but they did receive 100 all-steel 8-hatch copies of the Canadian design built by Pacific Car & Foundry in 1955 -- check that 1958 ORER again and look for the 206400 series

Ian Cranstone

Osgoode, Ontario, Canada

www.nakina.net


Re: 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Jim & Lisa Hayes <jimandlisa97225@...>
 

If anyone wants to build one, I have an F&C 5130 CN 8 hatch reefer kit I no
longer need. $10 including postage.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: Wright Trak M53/M53A

Jim King
 

. and this is exactly the reason we decided to go with cast-on railings:
prototypic accuracy. We found nothing available to buy and forming etched
ladder rails scares off a lot more people than drill holes for rungs.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

<http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>


Re: 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony

I see what you mean... but "GT" (not "GTW") had hundreds of
the overhead brine reefers. Was the "GT" reporting mark used
for cars that generally travelled to the US?

My only shots of GT/GTW reefers are of a "GT" wood reefer in
Portland Maine in the 1960's. It has paint-outs that seem to
betray its origin as GTW, not GT.

Tim O'Connor

The Grand Trunk Western is a US railroad . . .
Yes and no. There was a Grand Trunk Western Railroad
Company, and a Grand Trunk Railway System (lines in the U.S. east of
the Detroit and St. Clair rivers). Both were CN-connected, but Tim is
right that we usually think of the GTW. In 1953, the GTW had about
9800 freight cars, only 230 of which were reefers; at that time, none
were shown as all-steel cars having overhead ice tanks. The same was
true in the January 1958 ORER.
Tony Thompson


Re: Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

steve l <stevelucas3@...>
 

I have an HO resin kit for a streamlined CPR 2200-series coach (built 1950) that I'm working on in the hotel room while away from home. Separate roof, sides, ends, floor, and the whole body has to be sanded after filling gaps to get a smooth side/roof joint. Being sure to true everything up square of course. I'm not totally happy with the moulded floor that comes with the kit, and am considering making a new one of 1/16" acrylic sheet for the base. And then the kit's vestibule end isn't as good as I'd like, and it just calls for an interior. The trucks on the prototype coach had a different shock absorber arrangement than the kit has (another change to be made). Drawings and photos of the real thing spread out all over the hotel room table. Now, this is getting really INVOLVED.

All of a sudden, resin STMFC's are much, much, simpler to build than this, even with resin-bashing...

So, about that "masochist" thing... :)



Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Dave;

Too familiar....

I have dreams in which I am building resin kits...difficult kits.

Then I wake up in a cold sweat.

Elden "fallin off the wagon" Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Dave
Nelson
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:48 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?



Me: "Hi, My name is Dave. I buy kits of steam era freight cars... resin
kits".
Audience: "Hi Dave".
Me: "I started slow, buying just a few and actually building the kits, but as
time went on I was buying more and more".
Audience: Nods and mutters of personal awareness.
Me: "Now I just buy and store 'em with no thought of ever building them".

And so on.
Sound familiar?

Actually, I do have a purpose for my kits and that is as a hands-on example
of information that I can use to reproduce that car in 3d cad for use in
train simulator software.

Dave Nelson


Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Tim O'Connor
 

Greg

That's what I meant by "carbon"... in its many forms. :-)
Someone else mentioned pulverized coal -- that sounds like
a filter material.

Tim

At 11/4/2009 04:06 PM Wednesday, you wrote:

Tim,

And to a lesser degree anthracite coal, finely grounds and screed ed, was also used a filtration for water.

Greg Martin


-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 4, 2009 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question







Yes, but brewers use mineral materials for filtering -- for
example, carbon, or diatomaceous earth. I doubt those hoppers
were used for rice, barley malt or hops.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Wright Trak M53/M53A

Tim O'Connor
 

Jim

Unfortunately there is no single ladder -- I have photos that
show 6 and 7 rung ladders on the sides, and 5, 6, and 7 rung
ladders on the ends. They all appear to be the same width but
the rung spacing differs.

The original cars appear to have 7 rung ladders on the sides and
7 rung ladders on the ends -- that's probably the configuration
most modelers want. The 8th and 9th "rungs" above the 7th on the
sides appear to be grabirons.

I don't think there is a commercial ladder with the correct rung
spacing so the best solution (IMO) is a set of etched brass ladders.
Unless someone can suggest commercial 8-rung or 9-rung ladders which
approximate the rung spacing of the B&O ladders.

I don't think you would need to make "dimples". The standoff posts
(or whatever they're called) may have different locations for different
ladders.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/4/2009 04:14 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Tim,

Then if you have a suggestion for an accurate ladder, I'll give it serious
thought to replacing the ladder rails with 4 dimples to drill for a molded
ladder.

Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

<http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>


Re: Wright Trak M53/M53A

Jim King
 

Tim,



Then if you have a suggestion for an accurate ladder, I'll give it serious
thought to replacing the ladder rails with 4 dimples to drill for a molded
ladder.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

<http://www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>


Re: 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, wouldn't a load from Canada to California be counted as an "export" from Canada?
Of course, but as I understood Garth Groff's question, he was asking if the car had come to California to be exported, i.e. beyond California.

The Grand Trunk Western is a US railroad . . .

Yes and no. There was a Grand Trunk Western Railroad Company, and a Grand Trunk Railway System (lines in the U.S. east of the Detroit and St. Clair rivers). Both were CN-connected, but Tim is right that we usually think of the GTW. In 1953, the GTW had about 9800 freight cars, only 230 of which were reefers; at that time, none were shown as all-steel cars having overhead ice tanks. The same was true in the January 1958 ORER.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Greg Martin
 

Tim,

And to a lesser degree anthracite coal, finely grounds and screed ed, was also used a filtration for water.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Nov 4, 2009 12:57 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question







Yes, but brewers use mineral materials for filtering -- for
example, carbon, or diatomaceous earth. I doubt those hoppers
were used for rice, barley malt or hops.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/4/2009 02:43 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Didn't Anheuser Busch have some early (pre-WW II) covered hoppers?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes, but brewers use mineral materials for filtering -- for
example, carbon, or diatomaceous earth. I doubt those hoppers
were used for rice, barley malt or hops.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/4/2009 02:43 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Didn't Anheuser Busch have some early (pre-WW II) covered hoppers?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: 8 Hatch Canadian Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, wouldn't a load from Canada to California be counted
as an "export" from Canada?

Alberta is Canada's answer to Texas: beef and oil exports.

The Grand Trunk Western is a US railroad, so that GTW reefer in
California could have been hauling meat products from anywhere in
Michigan, Indiana or Ohio (AAR DISTRICT #15), on any one of 29
class 1 railroads, in 100% compliance with AAR car loading rules.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. GTW's "home districts" did not include Chicago IL, which
seems kind of odd to me but what do I know?

Remember CN was GTW's parent, and the car may have been
loaded on CN somewhere. I don't know why meat would be shipped to
California for export, as Canada has perfectly good ports on both
sides of the country. All the CN cars in the ORER with overhead tanks
are AAR RAMH cars, meaning they are meat cars and have brine retention
tanks, beef rails, and heaters.

Tony Thompson


Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Elden,and List
 
            That is what prompted the question; I had been of the belief that grains were shipped in box cars at that time, and wanted to make sure I didn't miss some others carriers cars. Thanks for the quick answers.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil> wrote:


From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 3:11 PM


 



Sorry, Fred, I did not add that grain on the PRR was shipped in box cars. I
have several photos of PRR cars with grain doors fitted, in that service.
PRR also used box cars, fitted with temporary grain doors, and extra sealing,
for flour, also. I have color photos into the 60's of PRR box cars covered
in white flour. PRR did not start using covered hoppers in grain, barley
malt, flour, etc, until the late 50's, or 1960 (the latter I think) when they
bought some Airslides, and then in 1964 or so, they bought a bunch of high
cube covered hoppers specifically for grain, and other food products. The
H30, H32, H33 and H34 were all bought for cement, sand, chemical additives,
and other non-food products.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Frederick Freitas
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Elden,

I need to ask at this point >>> in 1942, Scully yard on the
Panhandle had 6 tracks added on to for the purpose of inspecting grain
shipments before passing through Pitts. area. If I understand you, the PRR
did not use their equipment for this purpose. Now I question what cars were
used in the grain business from 1942 to 1954. Off line covered hoppers appear
to be the right idea; eg: SP, GN, UP, and midwest RR's. Anyone care to
enlighten me, and others who may still wonder.

Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil
<mailto:elden. j.gatwood% 40usace.army. mil> > wrote:

From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@ usace.army. mil
<mailto:elden. j.gatwood% 40usace.army. mil> >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com>
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 2:12 PM

Ralph;

I cannot tell you with certainty, but for comparison, the PRR did not haul
food products in covered hoppers until much later, and only then, in giant
new covered hoppers like the PS-2CD.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Ralph
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:51 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Please excuse a question that may be very sophmoric as well as being burried
somewhere within the message archives, but I was wondering if someone could
enlighten me to the use of covered hoppers in food stuff service, circa 1947.

I realize that covered hoppers go back to the late 1930's, but were typically
used to haul chemicals and cement, not grains, as they have been almost
exclusively since the 1960's.
The issue is this - I have a friend who wants to model a brewery circa 1947,
so would ANY of the incoming grain/malt/barley have been delivered in covered
hoppers, or would it have all still been transported via boxcars? The RR in
question is the NYC, the locale New York City.

Thank you,

Ralph Heiss
S. Plainfield, NJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Are We All Just a Bunch of Masochists?

D. Scott Chatfield
 

"Hi, my name is Scott, and I buy resin kits of steam era freight cars and I don't even model the steam era....."

Scott Chatfield
addicted to tank cars


Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Sorry, Fred, I did not add that grain on the PRR was shipped in box cars. I
have several photos of PRR cars with grain doors fitted, in that service.
PRR also used box cars, fitted with temporary grain doors, and extra sealing,
for flour, also. I have color photos into the 60's of PRR box cars covered
in white flour. PRR did not start using covered hoppers in grain, barley
malt, flour, etc, until the late 50's, or 1960 (the latter I think) when they
bought some Airslides, and then in 1964 or so, they bought a bunch of high
cube covered hoppers specifically for grain, and other food products. The
H30, H32, H33 and H34 were all bought for cement, sand, chemical additives,
and other non-food products.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Frederick Freitas
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 2:43 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question



Elden,

I need to ask at this point >>> in 1942, Scully yard on the
Panhandle had 6 tracks added on to for the purpose of inspecting grain
shipments before passing through Pitts. area. If I understand you, the PRR
did not use their equipment for this purpose. Now I question what cars were
used in the grain business from 1942 to 1954. Off line covered hoppers appear
to be the right idea; eg: SP, GN, UP, and midwest RR's. Anyone care to
enlighten me, and others who may still wonder.

Fred Freitas

--- On Wed, 11/4/09, Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> > wrote:

From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, November 4, 2009, 2:12 PM



Ralph;

I cannot tell you with certainty, but for comparison, the PRR did not haul
food products in covered hoppers until much later, and only then, in giant
new covered hoppers like the PS-2CD.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Ralph
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 10:51 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: [STMFC] 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Please excuse a question that may be very sophmoric as well as being burried
somewhere within the message archives, but I was wondering if someone could
enlighten me to the use of covered hoppers in food stuff service, circa 1947.

I realize that covered hoppers go back to the late 1930's, but were typically
used to haul chemicals and cement, not grains, as they have been almost
exclusively since the 1960's.
The issue is this - I have a friend who wants to model a brewery circa 1947,
so would ANY of the incoming grain/malt/barley have been delivered in covered
hoppers, or would it have all still been transported via boxcars? The RR in
question is the NYC, the locale New York City.

Thank you,

Ralph Heiss
S. Plainfield, NJ

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Ralph <cnjlv@...>
 

Gentlemen -

Thank you for all your well researched and helpful responses thus far, both on and off the group. I appreciate the help in getting an answer so as to realistically operate the layout.

Ralph Heiss


Re: 1947-era Covered Hopper Question

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Fred Freitas wrote:
I need to ask at this point >>> in 1942, Scully yard on the Panhandle had 6 tracks added on to for the purpose of inspecting grain shipments before passing through Pitts. area. If I understand you, the PRR did not use their equipment for this purpose. Now I question what cars were used in the grain business from 1942 to 1954. Off line covered hoppers appear to be the right idea; eg: SP, GN, UP, and midwest RR's. Anyone care to enlighten me, and others who may still wonder.
I'd say box cars in 1942. SP had no covered hoppers yet, GN had only 5, etc.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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