Date   

Re: Norfolk and Western H2a split side triples

Rich Yoder
 

Hi Brad.

An interesting topic indeed.

In 1948 the production of H2A cars started 3,000 cars we’re built by Virginia Bridge and Iron Co. The Split side sheets we’re more a product of what steel sheeting was available verses having anything to do with rebuilding. The “A” was a product of a slight revise of the H2, (which was considered an experimental car.) The Principal design changes from the H2 were the reinforcement of the top side angles, corner gusset and the end sheets because of experiments  with coal  shake-out machines.  Most of the car parts were made in the Roanoke Shops and most cars we’re assembled in Portsmouth. In 1956 The last few thousand cars we’re built by AC&F (1M), Roanoke Shops (1.5M)  And Greenville Car (500) Bethlehem Steel (500). Bring the total cars built to 13,500 from 1948 until 1956.

Rich Yoder

 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brad Andonian via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, March 23, 2020 12:00 AM
To: STMFC <main@realstmfc.groups.io>
Subject: [RealSTMFC] Norfolk and Western H2a split side triples

 

N&W split side h2a


I have found conflicting dates on the actual build dates of these cars.    Yoder has 52/53 but I think that was the rebuild date...  Can anyone please pass me the correct dates?

 

Thanks,


Re: Accurail kit 4498

lsittler
 

Oops..made a mistake. Correct CN series is 514068-514499. Les


Re: Accurail kit 4498

lsittler
 

Hi Dennis- So it turns out I have a number of the 4299 kits purchased years ago. Am I correct that these models are based on the CN 511353-513052 series car?. Also, what is the Don Valentine conversion kit you mention? Les


Re: Accurail kit 4498

lsittler
 



So I have some questions about these Accurail cars. I have a number of the 4299 cars I bought years ago (painted oxide red with data only). Dennis Storzek states that these cars are based on a CN car series- does anyone know the actual car series this model is intended to represent? I'm thinking the CN IO group may have prototype info on the cars and I'll check with them. But don't know where to start.  If others have some info it would be interesting to learn more, including whether appropriate decals are available. And now it seems that the DT&I may have had similar cars. Unfortunately I don't remember the door and a half version discussion with Don Valentine and the NERS detail kit. Maybe somebody can point me to the emails about that and for what railroad(s) that NERS kit was used. Frankly I thought these cars were pretty much unusable for my railroad but now I wonder based on Dennis's comments if that is not true. Thanks. Les


Re: Accurail kit 4498

lsittler
 

Hi Dennis- I read this post with interest. I’m a new guy on this site so please bear with me. It turns out that I have a number of the 4299 cars, which I bought many years ago. Can you tell me what CN car number series this model is intended to represent?  Also, if you know of any prototype information that’s available I would be grateful. Same goes for decals. Secondly, I was fortunate enough to buy one of your CN 1917 boxcar resin kits. The resin castings are truly wonderful but since this is an older kit the instructions are somewhat inscrutable to me. Since I model 1961 I am interested in the later version of this car. I realize I will need to utilize an AB brake system. No diagram is provided. However, the instructions state that later “cast steel AAR style trucks” were used- do you know what trucks are intended by this language? Also, it is stated that “a length of old rail (later stated to be code 40) was fitted to the center of each end to add a fifth post”.  I am not clear what that means. I take it that these cars were numbered in the 500,000 series on CN. The decals look somewhat beaten up in my kit.  Any new ones available? Thanks for your help. Les
 

From: Dennis Storzek
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2020 11:57 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Accurail kit 4498
 
On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 12:48 PM, Dave Parker wrote:
At the risk of piling on: Clark, I assume that you have a 4598 (there is no 4500 series).
These kits are now 29 years old, being released in 1991, IIRC. They were originally released as the 4000 series (wood ends and doors) 4200 series (7/8 steel ends and wood doors) and the 4400 series (steel ends and doors, At some point over the intervening years, we upgraded all the lettering art work. To avoid confusion between the old and new kits, they were all given new stock numbers, ratcheting each series up 100.
The only one of these models that I know to be prototypical is the 4100 series which, with a little work, makes a decent model of some CN cars built ca. 1918-27 (see attached).
The 4000/4100 series is truly the CN car. At the time I wanted to do a CB&Q car, but in those years builder's drawings weren't as easy to come by as they are now. I had worked with the late Stafford Swain and Ken Goslett to obtain drawings of the 1916 Canadian Government Railways car I did as a resin kit (Safford wanted a later car with the Hutchins roof but they couldn't find drawings) and they never stopped looking, so by the time I was working on the Accurail tooling, they had drawings for the more common CN car of the 1920's.

The 4200/4300 series car with the 7/8 corrugated ends is also a CN prototype, but more obscure. These started life as low roof door and a half automobile cars, but the CN quickly found they were too small; auto cars universally grew to 10'-0" IH during the twenties, so the CN rebuilt them as 6' door boxcars, retaining the corrugated ends. We gave some thought to doing the door and a half version, but it's really an atypical car with its low roof and there were not a lot of potential road names. Don Valentine of New England Rail Service settled the matter by bringing out his conversion kit.

This whole project was done with 3M's Tartan Tool process; sintered steel cavities formed over positive masters, very much like resin kit masters, and I had a Youngstown door pattern that was adaptable. Staff, Ken, and I discussed the possibility that the CN had replaced the doors on some cars, but we never did find any photos. However, in 1991 there weren't a lot of options for easy assembly models of pre-war prototypes, and this third version could be a stand-in for a lot of things, although those DM&IR cars may be the closest match. The idea was the third version would be cheap and easy to do. If I would have known what it was actually going to cost, I probably would not have done it.

Dennis Storzek

Virus-free. www.avg.com


Re: RPM Chicagoland News

golden1014
 

That's interesting about RPM events and weddings.  When I was running St. Louis RPM, I ran into scheduling problems every year--almost every time due to weddings.  Weddings bring in a lot more money because of all the catering and alcohol of course.  Around 2010 I started selling our meet to the staff as "an event catering to happy retirees who have plenty of money, and are pleasant and will follow the rules, and most importantly we won't get drunk and cause any trouble".  The first time I said that the staff was taken by surprise, but they thought about it and realized it was true.  They gave us everything we wanted.  They liked the idea of an easy event where everybody cleans up after themselves.

I hope Frank can rebuild Naperville.  The attendee base is already there.  The first St. Louis RPM in 2004 was a one-day event, 90 attendees, in a community center, and 15 years later it was 2-1/2 days, almost 650 attendees.  Now that there's no hotel fees to worry about in Chicago, I think---if Frank can keep costs to an absolute minimum---there's no reason why he couldn't get 750 or 1,000 attendees on the first go.  

John Golden
Ramstein-Miesenbach, Germany


Re: Photo: Early Santa Fe Boxcars At Eskridge Depot

David Vinci
 

Do you suppose those are sugar beets they are loading?

 

Dave Vinci

O==’=::

 


Re: DL&W brake system help

Lester Breuer
 

Mike provides the answer.   In 1953 they should hav AB brakes.  Thank You Mike and Al for your help.

Lester Breuer


Re: DL&W brake system help

Allan Smith
 

Thanks Mike that is a big help

Al Smith

On Monday, March 30, 2020, 02:40:16 PM PDT, Schleigh Mike via Groups.Io <mike_schleigh@...> wrote:


Hello Group!

When Pierre announced these cars I placed a notice about the ELRRHS reprint of the DL&W's 1952 "Car Department -- Classification of Fright Equipment."  This reference lists 245 cars in service and that "AB Brakes Being Applied."

Hope this helps with any 'timing' issues.

Regards----Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.

On Monday, March 30, 2020, 05:19:25 PM EDT, Allan Smith <smithal9@...> wrote:



Railway Prototype Cyc Vol 24 P83 stated that DL&W series 11350-11599 were rebuilt April thru September1936 and equipped with new Youngstown steel sides, Hutchins all-steel Dry lading roofs, staggered Youngstown corrugated steel doors with Camel roller-lift fixtures enclosing 12'-6 1/4"wide door openings, Ajax Type 13396 power hand brakes, Evans Auto-Loaders and twelve chain wells. When rebuilt the cars retained their original Andrews truck sideframes, KC schedule air brake systems, wood running boards and brake steps and 5-5-5 Murphy ends with newly fabricated extensions between the top and middle sections. The cars were assigned the AAR XAR automobile car classification and weighed 53,000 lbs.

These cars are on my Sierra RR list in 1952 and I have them to build, so I am also curious to see if they had the KC brake valves replaced do to AAR requirements.

Al Smith
Sonora CA
On Monday, March 30, 2020, 11:40:57 AM PDT, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


I am looking at Delaware, Lackawanna & Western auto double door rebuilt steel box, series 11300 to 11599, rebuilt 1935 to 1937   The Yarmouth Model Works kit #115 comes with K brakes.   Upon looking at the Jan. 1953 ORER I see 199 cars still in service.  My question did the cars in service receive AB brakes or did they not run in Interchange service?

Thank You in advance for your time and effort to answer.
Lester Breuer


Re: DL&W brake system help

Lester Breuer
 

Al as you state these cars are written up in RP CYC 24 and  I am aware they are shown prior to rebuild in RP CYC 16.  The data does say K brake stayed when rebuilt  in 1936.   However, I am asking about 1953.  Were they changed to AB or not then?
Lester Breuer


Re: Photo: Early Santa Fe Boxcars At Eskridge Depot

Allan Smith
 

The Bx-U boxcars were built in 1890 series 40948-41440. They were originally built as Fe-D Furniture cars and given the number series 80400-81010, soon renumbered into the 6095-6600 and 6601-7200 series. In 1906 they were reclassified into boxcars becoming classes Bx-T and Bx-U almost all gone from the roster by the early 1920's. So the date on this photo is somewhat dubious.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Monday, March 30, 2020, 02:01:11 PM PDT, earlyrail <cascaderail@...> wrote:


Interesting in that 41xxx series does not appear in the 1901 or 1905 ORER.
They do appear in the Mach 1907 ORER

Howard Garner


Re: DL&W brake system help

Schleigh Mike
 

Hello Group!

When Pierre announced these cars I placed a notice about the ELRRHS reprint of the DL&W's 1952 "Car Department -- Classification of Fright Equipment."  This reference lists 245 cars in service and that "AB Brakes Being Applied."

Hope this helps with any 'timing' issues.

Regards----Mike Schleigh in Grove City, Penna.

On Monday, March 30, 2020, 05:19:25 PM EDT, Allan Smith <smithal9@...> wrote:



Railway Prototype Cyc Vol 24 P83 stated that DL&W series 11350-11599 were rebuilt April thru September1936 and equipped with new Youngstown steel sides, Hutchins all-steel Dry lading roofs, staggered Youngstown corrugated steel doors with Camel roller-lift fixtures enclosing 12'-6 1/4"wide door openings, Ajax Type 13396 power hand brakes, Evans Auto-Loaders and twelve chain wells. When rebuilt the cars retained their original Andrews truck sideframes, KC schedule air brake systems, wood running boards and brake steps and 5-5-5 Murphy ends with newly fabricated extensions between the top and middle sections. The cars were assigned the AAR XAR automobile car classification and weighed 53,000 lbs.

These cars are on my Sierra RR list in 1952 and I have them to build, so I am also curious to see if they had the KC brake valves replaced do to AAR requirements.

Al Smith
Sonora CA
On Monday, March 30, 2020, 11:40:57 AM PDT, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


I am looking at Delaware, Lackawanna & Western auto double door rebuilt steel box, series 11300 to 11599, rebuilt 1935 to 1937   The Yarmouth Model Works kit #115 comes with K brakes.   Upon looking at the Jan. 1953 ORER I see 199 cars still in service.  My question did the cars in service receive AB brakes or did they not run in Interchange service?

Thank You in advance for your time and effort to answer.
Lester Breuer


Re: DL&W brake system help

Allan Smith
 


Railway Prototype Cyc Vol 24 P83 stated that DL&W series 11350-11599 were rebuilt April thru September1936 and equipped with new Youngstown steel sides, Hutchins all-steel Dry lading roofs, staggered Youngstown corrugated steel doors with Camel roller-lift fixtures enclosing 12'-6 1/4"wide door openings, Ajax Type 13396 power hand brakes, Evans Auto-Loaders and twelve chain wells. When rebuilt the cars retained their original Andrews truck sideframes, KC schedule air brake systems, wood running boards and brake steps and 5-5-5 Murphy ends with newly fabricated extensions between the top and middle sections. The cars were assigned the AAR XAR automobile car classification and weighed 53,000 lbs.

These cars are on my Sierra RR list in 1952 and I have them to build, so I am also curious to see if they had the KC brake valves replaced do to AAR requirements.

Al Smith
Sonora CA

On Monday, March 30, 2020, 11:40:57 AM PDT, Lester Breuer <rforailroad@...> wrote:


I am looking at Delaware, Lackawanna & Western auto double door rebuilt steel box, series 11300 to 11599, rebuilt 1935 to 1937   The Yarmouth Model Works kit #115 comes with K brakes.   Upon looking at the Jan. 1953 ORER I see 199 cars still in service.  My question did the cars in service receive AB brakes or did they not run in Interchange service?

Thank You in advance for your time and effort to answer.
Lester Breuer


Re: Photo: Early Santa Fe Boxcars At Eskridge Depot

earlyrail
 

Interesting in that 41xxx series does not appear in the 1901 or 1905 ORER.
They do appear in the Mach 1907 ORER

Howard Garner


SSW 17164 and the "Jail-House end"

Eric Lombard
 

Hi, Folks....

Just can't resist one more note on SSW 17164 with the unusual ends. Being locked down in Chicagoland makes time to trace out interesting one-offs. This car was one of 120 built by AC&F, Lot 7515, ordered 8-1914, built 12-1914 as 11034<>21986 even numbers. The cars were replacements into SSW 11000-22078, even numbers, wood, of which there were 5624 active in 2-1908 ORER and 5801 active in 2-1916 ORER. After 1914, Note 31 in the ORER tabulates the serials of the ACF cars. Sure enough, SSW 17160 is listed (attached). These cars were renumbered to 27000-27116 over 1924-1925 and remained in service into 1936. There is a clear photo (#21902) of this end in an article on box car ends by Richard Bale in MRH Oct. 2014, p98,

http://mrhpub.com/2014-10-oct/land/

He notes that it was dubbed the "jail-house" end by John Nehrich. That photo is a reproduction of same in the 1916 CBD, p394. The Westerfield collection of AC&F builder photos contains two photos of #21902, Lot 7515, together showing many aspects of the entire car.

I've not seen evidence of these unusual ends on any other series. If you know of such, I would appreciate a note.

Stay safe everyone,

Eric L
Hunkered down in Chicagoland


Re: Early Fruit Transportation . . . . . oyster box cars

Garth Groff and Sally Sanford
 

Bob,

IIRC somebody, probably Red Ball, offered a Stillwell oyster car back in dark ages. Likely a wooden block with paper overlays and real lead parts.

Yours Aye,

Mungo Napier, Laird of Mallard Lodge  🦆


On Mon, Mar 30, 2020 at 12:24 PM Bob Chaparro via Groups.Io <chiefbobbb=verizon.net@groups.io> wrote:

Also there were special cars for transporting oysters when people would pay a steep premium for the legless "livestock". The cars had salt water tanks for the valuable mollusks. Here is an example of an oyster car:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_Stillwell_Oyster_Car_1897.jpg

And here is an article about Arthur E. Stilwell, inventor of the famed Stilwell Oyster Car

http://www.pullman-museum.org/theCompany/stillwell.html

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: What ARE these ???

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Well, Pierre and Brian, that’s what I thought they might be.  There’s a dimple for drilling a hole through the short upturned end, and it makes some sense that is what they’d be for.  I’ll go with that for now.

 

Thanks

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Brian Carlson via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2020 4:17 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] What ARE these ???

 

Precision scale air hose brackets I think. 

Brian J. Carlson 



On Mar 30, 2020, at 4:09 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



I hate to admit this, but in the course of doing some deep cleaning and rearranging of my workbench and supplies, I came across this sprue of small parts.  I have no idea what they are.  Realizing that I provided nothing in the photo to give a scale reference, I measure them to be pretty much exactly ¼” long.

 

Evidently I knew what they were for at one time – two have been cut off and presumably mounted somewhere on a steam era freight car, no doubt.

 

Identification sought.

 

Schuyler

<20200330_155849.jpg>


Re: What ARE these ???

Brian Carlson
 

Precision scale air hose brackets I think. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Mar 30, 2020, at 4:09 PM, Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:



I hate to admit this, but in the course of doing some deep cleaning and rearranging of my workbench and supplies, I came across this sprue of small parts.  I have no idea what they are.  Realizing that I provided nothing in the photo to give a scale reference, I measure them to be pretty much exactly ¼” long.

 

Evidently I knew what they were for at one time – two have been cut off and presumably mounted somewhere on a steam era freight car, no doubt.

 

Identification sought.

 

Schuyler

<20200330_155849.jpg>


Re: What ARE these ???

Pierre Oliver
 

Air hose brackets

Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com
On 2020-03-30 4:08 p.m., Schuyler Larrabee via Groups.Io wrote:

I hate to admit this, but in the course of doing some deep cleaning and rearranging of my workbench and supplies, I came across this sprue of small parts.  I have no idea what they are.  Realizing that I provided nothing in the photo to give a scale reference, I measure them to be pretty much exactly ¼” long.

 

Evidently I knew what they were for at one time – two have been cut off and presumably mounted somewhere on a steam era freight car, no doubt.

 

Identification sought.

 

Schuyler


What ARE these ???

Schuyler Larrabee
 

I hate to admit this, but in the course of doing some deep cleaning and rearranging of my workbench and supplies, I came across this sprue of small parts.  I have no idea what they are.  Realizing that I provided nothing in the photo to give a scale reference, I measure them to be pretty much exactly ¼” long.

 

Evidently I knew what they were for at one time – two have been cut off and presumably mounted somewhere on a steam era freight car, no doubt.

 

Identification sought.

 

Schuyler

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