Date   

Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...>
You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.
I sure hope you're right... I've been assessing my Dad's huge collection
of unbuilt Athearn and other foobie kits (somewhere on the order of 1,000
or so) and contemplating trying to sell them... I was startled to learn on the
USPS web site that it now costs $10 to mail a 2 lb box to California* from
Massachusetts, and $5 for 1 lb. I figure I'll be lucky to get $3-$4 on Ebay
for a kit... even though many of them cost $10 or more 10-15 years ago,
as most of them are custom decorated (Bev-Bel etc). Gad.

Maybe I should just do the hobby a favor and grind them up for compost.

Tim O'Connor
Drowning in Blue Boxes...

* Think about that price -- that's $10,000/ton from MA to CA! I could lease
a private jet for that much.


Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

Relax Elden, I made my comment with tongue firmly planted in cheek!

Certainly RTR is a major force in today's market, but there is still a market for kits. One of the things that intrigues me from "this side of the fence" is the number of dealers that I talk to that will not carry kits, and the number of modelers I talk to that want but can not find kits... Hmmmmm... do these guys talk?

Bill (who included himself in the 52....)

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 7:37 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.

If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your kits,
and love them.

Elden Gatwood

________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Bill,Maybe we should stop using the term,"Modelers" and use "Collectors"
instead.BTW,better make that 53_. :-) ),Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...
<mailto:branchline%40sbcglobal.net> >
To: <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market
research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is
1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've
stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, @timboconnor
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> <@timboconnor
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
wrote:

From: @timboconnor <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
<@timboconnor <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM

Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

>> I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.



------------------------------------

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3:59 PM


Re: resin versus injection molded

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ed;



I am in the same boat. I cannot find the time to build up all these great
kits. And I keep finding more I want...



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
ed_mines
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 12:20 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: resin versus injection molded



--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gatwood,
Elden J SAD "
<elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
You are obviously not buying the right injection molded models.
Elden, you're right. I'm just disappointed that the ProtoWest kits come
2 to a box.

Many of the members of this list see each other face to face several
times a year. That's never going to happen with me. I met 2 or 3 list
memebers 25 years ago.

I'm not supposed to buy any more models but sometimes I can't help
myself - like Ted's Wabash dd SS box car or some undec P2K cars on sale.

I have enough kits in storage to last me 3 life times.

Ed


Re: New Athearn VGN 3 bay hopper

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Jim Mischke wrote:
"I believe this VGN car is a tool-modified MDC three bay offset
hopper."

I believe that you are incorrect.
http://www.athearn.com/Newsletter/101408/13_3_bay_hop_6_101408.pdf

The lettering for the Pennsy car in this product annoucement is
particularly heinous.


Ben Hom


Re: Cabot Carbon Black Cars

David North <davenorth@...>
 

Hi Ed, thanks very much for that additional information.

So I gather there is no proof that the early build lots that were delivered
with wooden walks and vertical brake staffs, were converted/updated to the
newer components?

Cheers

Dave.


Kits and modelers and the future

asychis@...
 

Still, before you get too discouraged about the upcoming generations, take a
drive by any tourist railroad during a Thomas the Tank event. When the "Blue
B****ard" (as at least one crew member terms it!) shows up at Essex you can't
get near the place.

And that is part of the problem. I too have heard a lot of degrading
comments about Thomas the Tank Engine spewed about by "mature" modelers. Same kind
of thing with people degrading Model Railroader as too simplistic or
repetitive. We need to keep in mind that an interest in railroads, real or modeled,
does not spring forth fully developed. It is something that grows
organically with a person's interest and skills. No four-year old is interested in
building, or has the ability to build, a resin kit, but they might love Thomas.
From Thomas, maybe for some it leads to shake to box kits, then more complex
kits, and so forth. If we really are interested in the next generation of
modelers we need to take the time to nurture them along. It does work. But
it also takes time.

I'm no big player in this game. My son was never interested, and my
granddaughter will probably not take up the hobby. So, the future of model
railroading for me is of little interest. I have no reason to worry about kits being
available for the next generation. Walthers catalog does not seem to be
shrinking in size. Can it be used as a bell weather of the future?

Jerry Michels

BTW, can we make some effort on the list to NOT include previous responses
in a message? Some of these are to the point where the whole thread is in
each message. Very messy to try reading.
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Re: EJ&E Flatcars or Gondolas...and Box Cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Guys;



I am also not an expert on the EJ&E, but am modeling some of the fleet, and
trying to figure out what they had.



The EJ&E went to that neat orange and green, as far as I can tell, with the
DT-6-6-2000's, in 1946, I have been told, and the freight fleet followed,
also from what I have been able to see in pics. The first freight car pic I
have in green & orange is for a box car, in 1952, but I believe the USRA
steel rebuilds may have been painted with that neat "belted" logo and "Around
not thru..." map, early than that. The orange over green box cars seem to
have started in about 1952. Cars painted in these colors lasted for quite
awhile, and I remember seeing them into the 1970's, albeit in a simpler
scheme. I can't say for sure when the black with white lettering happened,
but flat cars and gons painted that way were evident in the late 60's, from
what I remember.



The LifeLike P2K green and orange flat car (50-ton AAR) looks very much like
the prototype, and would be good for anytime from maybe the early 50's to
60's. The lettering is serif, which puts it at the earlier end of that
period. This is the only flat car I know of that is good for the EJ&E.
Other photos I have of EJ&E flats do not match any models I have seen.



There are no gondola models I have ever seen that match any photos I have
ever seen of a real EJ&E gon. Richard Hendrickson did a beautiful heavy
kitbash a number of years ago, of an EJ&E gon. It is one of those large
missing holes in HO kit availability, along with their box car fleet. We
also continue to need gon kits for the MILW (steel), Union RR, B&LE, DT&I,
and C&EI, all of whom had significant fleets.



The only kits good for EJ&E box cars were the kits from Sunshine, all of
which are no longer available, I am told. The USRA steel rebuild has been
out of production for some years, and the 10'6" IH 40' box with continuous
side sill kit was a "Mini'Kit" sold or given away at one of their Naperville
Meets, I think. I built one of the former recently, and it was one of those
early kits that was pretty challenging to build square. The latter was a set
of resin parts you assembled on a Branchline Blueprint 8'-door car, so would
be much easier.



I have not investigated their hopper fleet enough to be able to say anything
about that.



The lack of availability of EJ&E rolling stock was a huge surprise to me,
especially given their beautiful box car schemes. Maybe the manufacturers
should be bombarded with requests? Their post-war steel gondolas and 10' IH
box cars in the orange over green billboard scheme of post-1952 seem like
winners.



What do you think?



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Adam
& Laura Eyring
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 12:32 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] EJ&E Flatcars or Gondolas



I'm no expert and again suggest joining the EJ&E list or looking deeper at
http://www.ejearchive.com/ <http://www.ejearchive.com/>
At the risk of being somewhat off topic, in the meantime, what I can get
from Diesel Era is that until the early 1960s, most of the locos were black.
This agrees with the fact that early EJ&E cars were also black as far as I
can tell. The exceptions are the orders for DT-6-6-2000 diesels starting in
1946 and those were in orange with black (or dark brown?) letters and trim.
In 1957, three SD9s were ordered in orange and green with a yellow
separation stripe. The 1960s saw end-cab locos repainted "flue-brown" and
the rest repainted in solid orange similar to the DT-6-6-2000s. Those
schemes or slight variations thereof persisted into the 1990s.

So, my guess is that you may be safe with your flat car being orange and
green in the 1950s, but experts will tell you which exact years apply.
AME

----- Original Message -----
From: <eyrings06@... <mailto:eyrings06%40comcast.net> >
To: <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] EJ&E Flatcars or Gondolas

I think a good resource would be the EJ&E Yahoo group list. I was on it in
the past and there are a lot of knowledgeable folks there.
http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/eje/
<http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/eje/>

There was an article in Diesel Era approx 10 years ago that may have info
on paint schemes, but I will have to check at home (unless someone here
responds first).

AME

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "andy.laurent" <andy.laurent@...
<mailto:andy.laurent%40yahoo.com> >


I am looking for a few EJ&E flatcars and gons to carry inbound steel
loads into a shipyard on my layout set in 1952. Are there any models
out there that are dead-on or close-to cars that were in service at the
time? I have the Proto 50-ton AAR flat...but was wondering about the
green and orange paint scheme. When did that scheme enter service, and
what was the prior scheme (black/white, or tuscan/white)? I haven't
found decals either...any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Andy L.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

asychis@...
 

Tim,

How about giving all those kits to a local orphanage, school, cub scout
pack, etc. and spread the model railroad virus to some of them? You can take a
tax write off for the donation (full original list price?). Sure, they are
not state of the art products, but a lot of kids might enjoy building these
"entry-level" kits. Seems to me like a very good way to help engender that next
generation of modelers who will buy kits. I've done this with some kids in
our area. Not only Athearn blue box but some Branchline and Red Caboose kits
too that I knew I'd never build. I also give away my old Model Railroader
and Scale Rails to kids. They love it! Having a month-old issue of MR or SR
is better than having no magazines to read.

Jerry Michels
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Dining, Movies, Events, News & more. Try it out
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Re: Storzek CN Boxcar 1917

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Dave,
To the best of my knowledge, no.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Schroedle" <hummerdaves@...> wrote:

Group can anyone tell me if this car a 1917 car would have had a
black
[car cement] roof.
The model has a board by board roof.
Thanks
Dave S.


Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

You guys are depressing me. There are >100 guys I know on both coasts, that
love building kits and bring lots of models to meets. They are just
outnumbered by the many that now buy RTR exclusively, and those of us that
buy and enjoy both. There would be no resin kit manufacturers, either, if
there weren't thousands of guys that like kit building.



If the economics of the hobby now dictate that plastic kits are not going to
pay the bills, it is sad, but Bill, I have well over a hundred of your kits,
and love them.



Elden Gatwood





________________________________

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Armand Premo
Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 6:27 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers



Bill,Maybe we should stop using the term,"Modelers" and use "Collectors"
instead.BTW,better make that 53_. :-) ),Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...
<mailto:branchline%40sbcglobal.net> >
To: <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market
research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is
1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've
stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, @timboconnor
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> <@timboconnor
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
wrote:

From: @timboconnor <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net>
<@timboconnor <mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM

Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

----------------------------------------------------------

Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com <http://www.avg.com>
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008
3:59 PM


Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

armprem
 

Bill,Maybe we should stop using the term,"Modelers" and use "Collectors" instead.BTW,better make that 53_. :-) ),Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is 1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, @timboconnor <@timboconnor> wrote:

From: @timboconnor <@timboconnor>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM







Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.
















------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008 3:59 PM


Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

armprem
 

Bill,Then should we stop using the term "modeler" and start using,"collector".Better make that 53, <G>,Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Schneider" <branchline@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers


Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is 1,235.

The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've stopped too.... ;>)

Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, @timboconnor <@timboconnor> wrote:

From: @timboconnor <@timboconnor>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM







Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.
















------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Internal Virus Database is out of date.
Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
Version: 8.0.173 / Virus Database: 270.8.0/1720 - Release Date: 10/11/2008 3:59 PM


Re: CB&Q 1937 Mod. AAR

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Brian,
Jerry Hamsmith also has a beautiful set of decals printed by Rail Graphics. He sells them at the Burlington Route meets. I will also try the Microscales too.
Rob Manley

----- Original Message -----
From: Brian J Carlson
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Thursday, October 16, 2008 9:48 PM
Subject: [STMFC] CB&Q 1937 Mod. AAR


I'd like to model a few of the CB&Q Modified 1937 AAR cars. Can anyone
recommend decals. I see Microscale has set 87-412 has anyone used it?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: EJ&E Flatcars or Gondolas

Adam & Laura Eyring <eyrings06@...>
 

I'm no expert and again suggest joining the EJ&E list or looking deeper at http://www.ejearchive.com/
At the risk of being somewhat off topic, in the meantime, what I can get from Diesel Era is that until the early 1960s, most of the locos were black. This agrees with the fact that early EJ&E cars were also black as far as I can tell. The exceptions are the orders for DT-6-6-2000 diesels starting in 1946 and those were in orange with black (or dark brown?) letters and trim. In 1957, three SD9s were ordered in orange and green with a yellow separation stripe. The 1960s saw end-cab locos repainted "flue-brown" and the rest repainted in solid orange similar to the DT-6-6-2000s. Those schemes or slight variations thereof persisted into the 1990s.

So, my guess is that you may be safe with your flat car being orange and green in the 1950s, but experts will tell you which exact years apply.
AME

----- Original Message -----
From: <eyrings06@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:20 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] EJ&E Flatcars or Gondolas


I think a good resource would be the EJ&E Yahoo group list. I was on it in the past and there are a lot of knowledgeable folks there. http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/eje/

There was an article in Diesel Era approx 10 years ago that may have info on paint schemes, but I will have to check at home (unless someone here responds first).

AME

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "andy.laurent" <andy.laurent@...>


I am looking for a few EJ&E flatcars and gons to carry inbound steel
loads into a shipyard on my layout set in 1952. Are there any models
out there that are dead-on or close-to cars that were in service at the
time? I have the Proto 50-ton AAR flat...but was wondering about the
green and orange paint scheme. When did that scheme enter service, and
what was the prior scheme (black/white, or tuscan/white)? I haven't
found decals either...any help is appreciated.

Thanks,
Andy L.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers

Bill Schneider <branchline@...>
 

Tim, good point although your numbers are off. Through careful market research we have determined that the actual number of modelers left is 1,235.
 
The number who still build kits is currently 52. Unless of course you've stopped too.... ;>)
 
Bill Schneider (who's up WAY too late dealing with China!)

--- On Thu, 10/16/08, @timboconnor <@timboconnor> wrote:

From: @timboconnor <@timboconnor>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IRC 1958 cuft hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, October 16, 2008, 4:28 PM







Yeah, probably all 700 or 800 actual modelers left on the planet will
be very excited... :-)

Tim O'Connor

------------ -- Original message ------------ --------- -
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturep ress.com>

I think most modelers will be blown away by these new cars.













[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NH 1937 AAR boxcars

Peter Ness
 

Brian,
Funny you mention the 10'IH postwar cars....just completed those with
the Archer rivets (see the Archer rivets photo folder on STMFC) <G>.

Interestingly, photo evidence suggests these cars remained in script
herald until ca. 1966 when they were re-painted in the 'Alpert'
or 'Trustee' scheme. The same seems to hold true for the 31000-series
1937 AAR box cars. In effect, you can model many of the New Haven Box
Cars (except the 30000-series) in script herald up to 1960 (or beyond,
but that's past the scope of STMFC) and have a time-appropriate repaint
stencil.

Does your broadside of 36003 show the triangle stencil applied to the
right of the road number?

Regards,
Peter
--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

Thanks Peter, I have a Richard Burg broadside of 36003 c. 1959. At
first
glance, I thought the discoloration on the sill to the left of the
door was
just weathering. Upon close inspection, I see that is indeed a trust
plate.
I should have expected that location since it is the same as the PS-
1's and
postwar 10' IH cars.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Multi packs Re: Re: resin versus injection molded

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I saw the Broadway Limited N&W hoppers sold singly at my LHS in
Ontario. It's a very nice model, and the only reason that I did not
buy any was my Oct., 1956 cut-off date.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

The Broadway H2a hopper came in 6-packs, and the PRR K7a stock came
in four
packs but every dealer I know sold them individual to those who only
wanted
one car. Each Broadway hopper was individually boxed and each
stockcar was
in a plastic box.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Storzek CN Boxcar 1917

hummerdaves
 

Group can anyone tell me if this car a 1917 car would have had a black
[car cement] roof.
The model has a board by board roof.
Thanks
Dave S.


CB&Q 1937 Mod. AAR

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I'd like to model a few of the CB&Q Modified 1937 AAR cars. Can anyone
recommend decals. I see Microscale has set 87-412 has anyone used it?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: NH 1937 AAR boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks Peter, I have a Richard Burg broadside of 36003 c. 1959. At first
glance, I thought the discoloration on the sill to the left of the door was
just weathering. Upon close inspection, I see that is indeed a trust plate.
I should have expected that location since it is the same as the PS-1's and
postwar 10' IH cars.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY