Date   

Re: New IM war Emergency cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Jim:
Based on what I saw at Cocoa the NKP car should be accurate. They had the
right door and the side panel arrangement, and roof. I didn't have my NKP
diagram book to check things like hand brake and roofwalk to check those
details. A neat thing about the NKP cars were that they kept the swing tail
R for the entire life of the car. There was a painting diagram for the post
war R scheme, but no photos of cars in this scheme have surfaced.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 10:56 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New IM war Emergency cars


Brian,

Can you offer any insight as to the accuracy of the NKP car?

Jim Brewer
Glenwood, MD





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: New IM war Emergency cars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Richard:
According to the link here http://www.atsfrr.com/store/bookFrt.htm volume 4
is sold out, and has been sold out for a few years. If the website is wrong,
that would be great.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2009 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New IM war Emergency cars


On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:46 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:12:27 -0800, Richard Hendrickson wrote


ADMIN: Criticism of manufacturers

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Guysw,
Just a mild reminder that STMFC rules permit...even promote...evaluation of a manufacturer's products. STMFC rules do not permit criticism of a manufacturer's business practices and operation. Interestingly, there IS a difference. Also I would remind you that members, themselves, are not to be criticized for assuming a position that another member takes issue with. Nothing wrong with disagreeing with another member's evaluation. It might seem obvious that UP frt cars were superior to all others but, if someone suggests this was not the case and Rutland cars were much better, more power to him...and, in fact, both of them. The other members will decide themselves which were better. Yeah...we know...Pennsy cars were the best...right?

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: Helium Cars

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee says:

"Perhaps I can lay claim to a "law?"

The amount of email traffic on the STMFC list is in inverse proportion to the prevalence of the
subject car in the prototype."

Not bad. At least as useful and accurate as Brock's Fifth Rule about box cars. Wish I could recall the first 4.

Mike Brock


Re: Helium cars

rfederle@...
 

I believe it was Middletown Ohio during the 1970's I recall seeing several Helium Cars at the Air Products plant there. Never got any photos though.

Robert Federle
---- John Riba <jriba@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

Hello Everybody,

Helium tank cars had a siding on Brookpark Rd. next to the Chevy plant in
Brookpark, OH (Cleveland). This was a reciprical yard of the B&O and NYC. The unloading facility is gone now. They may have been for NASA. Akron, OH, of course, is home for the blimps and they use helium. Anyone want to model a blimp dock for your helium cars?

John


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi Schuyler, In your post to which I initially responded you accused IM of disregarding
quality in their rush to get product to market. Now, in this post you describe their
willingness to make changes to improve the quality of an initially less than optimal
product. It seems to me that your statement of the first post is contradicted by those of
your second post. Regards, Don Smith
Not at all. The willingness to respond is one thing, and they're good at it. But they have to be
monitored and told that they've mucked it up. Amarillo can verify that. As can my group. But left
on their own to do a model, they don't do the research, and the models suffer for it. Read Tony
Thompson's post about (some car I don't remember) that should have matched PFE orange. Not a hard
thing to get right, since they already have painted cars that color, but they instead "winged it."
And blew it.

Understand they are run by a businessman, not a modeler. Probably other model companies would do
better financially if they were so run, but the product may suffer.

SGL


Re: New IM war Emergency cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2009, at 6:46 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote:
On Fri, 13 Feb 2009 21:12:27 -0800, Richard Hendrickson wrote
Brian, none of the Bx-38 "War Emergency" box cars were ever
stenciled with maps/slogans or with the later slogans and S&T.
Thanks Richard, that is what I suspected. As a followup question,
did any
receive all steel doors post war, the model shows composite doors,
and is
there anything obvious in the artwork shown on the IM site that is
different
circa 1957. (lines above and belove reporting marks, periods in the
reporting marks, etc.)











There is no evidence that the Bx-38s had their doors replaced until
they were rebuilt as all-steel cars beginning in 1959 (and, BTW, only
191 of the 300 cars were rebuilt then; the rest were rebuilt with
shock control underframes in 1963 and reclassified Bx-78). All, or
almost all, of the Bx-38s would have been repainted at some time
between 1944 and 1957, but I have never seen good photos of a
repainted car. I do have one partial photo, however, which shows
ATSF 129718 repainted in 1953 with a 3' square herald in the side bay
closest to the end (the only place it would fit) rather then the
original 2' square herald above the reporting marks and numbers.
Other stenciling, what can be seen of it, was the same as when the
cars were new, and in approximately the same location. And this car
still had its original composite door.

http://irailway.qwestoffice.net/
I assume most of these answers are in the Santa Fe Boxcars book but I
haven't been able to locate a copy yet.






Locating a copy couldn't be easier, as the book is still in print.
Go to the Santa Fe RH&MS website - www.atsfrr.com - then click on
company store, then click on books.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain ACF 1958 (was WWII War Emergency cars)

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard

That's cool. But as I'm sure you know, there's more than 2
roofs for the cars - I can think of at least 4.

Tim

At 2/14/2009 02:45 PM Saturday, you wrote:
On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
P.S. The ACF 1958 is a fine model, but it has the wrong roof
for many prototypes. I sense an opportunity for resin minikits!
Tim, before someone goes to the trouble of making replacement roofs,
IM assures us that they plan to do the ATSF, MP, etc. cars with the
correct roofs at some point in the not too distant future.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

rgs0554
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Schuyler
Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@> wrote:

The question has come up about why IM doesn't do the same level of quality work
they
have done in
the somewhat more distant past.
Hi Schuyler and group, I strongly disagree with Schuyler's statement. I think the
quality of
IM's work currently is great! The most recent example being the ACF 1958 cf covered
hopper. Having built several of the kits, I think it is the BEST1 model I've ever built.
Other
recent goodies IM that I've built include the ATSF Caswell Gon, the ATSF stock cars
and the
USRA gon. Regards, Don Smith
Actually, Don, I don't disagree with your remarks about the quality of the kits or built-
up models.
They are really very well done. But others were suggesting that some color choices were
less than
accurate, and there have been some very difficult "birthing" of models at IM, that have
required
multiple iterations of dies being cut in order to get them "right on" in the end. I am
involved
with a special run of cars being done with IM, and they managed to run the wrong
combination of
roof, sides and ends even though there was an approved work order stipulating the
correct
combination. To their credit, they have taken them back and will re-run them. On
another order,
we've rather tested their patience, I think, in multiple iterations of the lettering, but in
the
end, those will be "right on" too. It's just not easy to get there. (BTW, both of these are
STMFC
cars of interest, and when they are available, I'll be mentioning them here.)

I especially agree with your remarks about the 1958 cf hopper. I've bought three
assembled
versions, and the level of complexity and accuracy of detail is very admirable. The
models
discussed in the "Is this a new model" thread yesterday have different roofs to accurately
do
different roads. But these cars follow some years when IM products were a bit more
"chancy" than
these are. This is a good trend.

SGL
Hi Schuyler, In your post to which I initially responded you accused IM of disregarding
quality in their rush to get product to market. Now, in this post you describe their
willingness to make changes to improve the quality of an initially less than optimal
product. It seems to me that your statement of the first post is contradicted by those of
your second post. Regards, Don Smith


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2009, at 11:18 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
P.S. The ACF 1958 is a fine model, but it has the wrong roof
for many prototypes. I sense an opportunity for resin minikits!




Tim, before someone goes to the trouble of making replacement roofs,
IM assures us that they plan to do the ATSF, MP, etc. cars with the
correct roofs at some point in the not too distant future.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Andy, if IRC was keeping pace with Kadee, they'd have 4 or 5
different models by now... Everyone seems to be saying IRC is
inconsistent. So what else is new? So is Atlas. So is Athearn.
So is Red Caboose. So is Sunshine! Over on the MFCL we've been
whacking away at the new Exactrail. (Chris Clune's new company.)
Guess what? Not exactly right!!

There's only one Kadee, unfortunately. And for those who care,
many of their cars have incorrect trucks, running boards, and
even occasionally, incorrect paint jobs.

Stuff happens. We deal with it.

Tim O'Connor

P.S. The ACF 1958 is a fine model, but it has the wrong roof
for many prototypes. I sense an opportunity for resin minikits!

Intermountain seems to be content with the cruising through College with c- grades. We are fortunate that Kadee gets straight A's.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

...He seemed amazed, and though I know Frank isn't a technical guy,
to me it spoke volumes about the lack of CONSISTENT seriousness at
IM. Frank needn't know the right color, but others at IM sure should.
Intermountain has always had trouble retaining individuals who know
such things without having to look them up. They are hired, but don't
stay.

Tom Madden


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Andy Carlson wrote:
When defining what a great car is, we all select different areas in which we focus our attention and importance . . .
Last fall, at the SP Historical Society meeting in Bakersfield, I spent some time talking to IM's Frank Angstead and looking at the sample models he was displaying. I commented that the Daylight Orange paint on their sample Daylight passenger car was pretty muddy and too brown. He said, "Well, how do we fix it?" I replied, "It's the same color as PFE orange, and though you don't ALWAYS get it right on PFE cars, usually you're very accurate. So use that." He seemed amazed, and though I know Frank isn't a technical guy, to me it spoke volumes about the lack of CONSISTENT seriousness at IM. Frank needn't know the right color, but others at IM sure should.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: "Fascinated by the obscure"

Aley, Jeff A
 

Mike,

You wrote, "Wait 'til you see my rocket launching car next Jan."

I thought we weren't going to announce the 2010 Shake-N-Take until later...

-Jeff


Re: Helium Cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Tony,

Being gone for well over a year it seems like we are
at the same spot checking out Helium. Guess I haven't
lost anything!

Russ
Perhaps I can lay claim to a "law?"

The amount of email traffic on the STMFC list is in inverse proportion to the prevalence of the
subject car in the prototype.

SGL


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 

--- On Sat, 2/14/09, Don Smith <rgs0554@yahoo.com <mailto:rgs0554%40yahoo.com> > wrote:
I think the quality of
IM's work currently is great!
When defining what a great car is, we all select different areas in which we focus our attention
and importance. A truly
great car will impress nearly everyone and will be universally applauded. IM's ACF covered hopper
is worthy of praise,
and so is the much earlier Santa Fe refrigerator car. The USRA Gondola is severely compromised
with the combined
steel structural assembly with the horrible laser scribed wood-the car looks awful. One need to
look at the recently
released GN plywood sheathed 40' box car to see a car designed haphazardly with little intent of
greatness on the model
designer's part. The ART refrigerator car is almost as bad as the 1st R-40-10, the car that
eventually turned out fairly
well after several modelers, most who frequent this list, held IM to the fire. IM isn't fortunate
enough to have JP keep
his eye on product development in Colorado.

Intermountain seems to be content with the cruising through College with c- grades. We are
fortunate that Kadee gets
straight A's.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Correct, Andy. The CRITICAL word in Don's remark is "currently."

SGL


Re: Helium Cars

Russ Strodtz <normansen@...>
 

Tony,

Being gone for well over a year it seems like we are
at the same spot checking out Helium. Guess I haven't
lost anything!

Russ

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, 13 February, 2009 23:56
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Helium Cars


Rich C (don't know his last name) wrote:
I don't know if it has been mentioned, but the capacity of the prototype is 200,000 lbs! Most cars were built with special heavier duty trucks, both friction bearing and in the sixties roller bearing. All were retired by 1998+/-.
Glad you said "+", since I saw several of them on the siding at Cape Canaveral in 2006.
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Andy Carlson
 

--- On Sat, 2/14/09, Don Smith <rgs0554@yahoo.com> wrote:
I think the quality of
IM's work currently is great!
When defining what a great car is, we all select different areas in which we focus our attention and importance. A truly great car will impress nearly everyone and will be universally applauded. IM's ACF covered hopper is worthy of praise, and so is the much earlier Santa Fe refrigerator car. The USRA Gondola is severely compromised with the combined steel structural assembly with the horrible laser scribed wood-the car looks awful. One need to look at the recently released GN plywood sheathed 40' box car to see a car designed haphazardly with little intent of greatness on the model designer's part. The ART refrigerator car is almost as bad as the 1st R-40-10, the car that eventually turned out fairly well after several modelers, most who frequent this list, held IM to the fire. IM isn't fortunate enough to have JP keep his eye on product development in Colorado.

Intermountain seems to be content with the cruising through College with c- grades. We are fortunate that Kadee gets straight A's.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Intermountain WWII War Emergency cars

Schuyler Larrabee
 


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

The question has come up about why IM doesn't do the same level of quality work they
have done in
the somewhat more distant past.
Hi Schuyler and group, I strongly disagree with Schuyler's statement. I think the quality of
IM's work currently is great! The most recent example being the ACF 1958 cf covered
hopper. Having built several of the kits, I think it is the BEST1 model I've ever built. Other
recent goodies IM that I've built include the ATSF Caswell Gon, the ATSF stock cars and the
USRA gon. Regards, Don Smith
Actually, Don, I don't disagree with your remarks about the quality of the kits or built-up models.
They are really very well done. But others were suggesting that some color choices were less than
accurate, and there have been some very difficult "birthing" of models at IM, that have required
multiple iterations of dies being cut in order to get them "right on" in the end. I am involved
with a special run of cars being done with IM, and they managed to run the wrong combination of
roof, sides and ends even though there was an approved work order stipulating the correct
combination. To their credit, they have taken them back and will re-run them. On another order,
we've rather tested their patience, I think, in multiple iterations of the lettering, but in the
end, those will be "right on" too. It's just not easy to get there. (BTW, both of these are STMFC
cars of interest, and when they are available, I'll be mentioning them here.)

I especially agree with your remarks about the 1958 cf hopper. I've bought three assembled
versions, and the level of complexity and accuracy of detail is very admirable. The models
discussed in the "Is this a new model" thread yesterday have different roofs to accurately do
different roads. But these cars follow some years when IM products were a bit more "chancy" than
these are. This is a good trend.

SGL


Re: New IM war Emergency cars

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Brian,

Can you offer any insight as to the accuracy of the NKP car?

Jim Brewer
Glenwood, MD

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