Date   

Re: colors for Great Northern . . .

Jim Betz
 

Tony,

If you ask 10 GN modelers what is the "true" color of GN
Green (or Empire Builder Green ... or Pullman Green) you
will get 15 different answers ... it's a never ending
discussion on GNGoat. The orange isn't any easier. And
the question doesn't seem any closer to being resolved
than it was at the time you refer to below.

My personal answer is "they are -all- correct". Meaning
that when I look at any kind of "evidence" I always get a
different answer. And each guy (who is willing to take a
stand) seems to pick his own special set of "evidence".

Yeah, when we are talking the era of the Orange and Green
Empire Builder and later you can make pretty strong 'proofs'
by using color formulas and what not. But the evidence also
seems to be equally strong that not every piece of equipment was
painted with paint that was mixed at the same time and to
the same specs ... or with the same color(s) underneath it ...
or photographed in the same light or with the same film ... or
printed with the same 'printer's eye' ... etc., etc., etc.

There -is- one point about all of this that is important
to be made. And that is that although most color pictures in
most books of trains (any road, any day) seem to indicate
that the color of the equipment was "very close to each other
from car to car" ... it seems that "fact" is heavily influenced
by the "printer's art". So even whether or not a given
passenger train on a given day looked pretty homogenous if
you looked at it from one side is somewhat in question. I
know that every time I look at an actual slide taken in the
STMFC period I don't see the kind of homogeneity of color
that you see in prints of said equipment in a book (which is
the primary resource/evidence of most "color cops").

So if you don't mind I'll just not say what shade I prefer
to use - whilst dodging the bullets. Aw shucks - why be a
wimp? I use Scalecoat and like it (most of the time).

- Jim in San Jose
(whose moniker on Yahoo Groups is OldRockyGN)

P.S. And who is suspecting that Sir Thompson was just "stirring
the pot" when he made this post. A real rabble-rouser!

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

This reminds of hearing, years ago, that GN modelers had
many
disagreements about exactly what the GN green really is: is it
Pullman
green, or dark olive green like the Harriman Lines green, or is it
close to military olive drab?
I do know that at least one commercial paint calling itself
"GN green" is an accurate match to SP color chips for "Dark Olive"
passenger car paint, and NOT to Pullman green.
Can the GN folks on the list bring me up to date on this
issue? I'd be interested.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Tallest STMFC?

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Larry

I haven't found any ORER's showing the additional height of the altered CB&Q cars. Perhaps, as they were in that specific service and would not otherwise be available, there was no point to putting through an amendment to the listing, and once the B-26 service was completed and the cars returned to general service, the lack of amendment was forgotten. These cars (and the "bomber boxes" on flat cars) were covered in Burlington Bulletin #15.

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "finkfam98055" <finkfam2@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 4:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Tallest STMFC?


--- In STMFC@..., "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "finkfam98055" <finkfam2@> wrote:

A trivia question -
What was the tallest Steam Era Freight Car in interchange service
as measured from the rail?
Larry Fink
Hi Larry
Evidently, the tallest was the 17'-3" CB&Q extended-height XA-14D
cars circa 1942-1944 reported by Rupert Gamlen .....the extended height of the CB&Q cars didn't make it into the ORER (or did it)?
Larry


Re: 100 car roster of foreign road boxcars

Dave Nelson
 

Yeah, I strip the & character from all marks as it doesn't behave very well
in querries to my database.

Dave Nelson

-----Original Message-----

Does CO = C&O? I have few C&O FC pix fron North Carolina.

Al Kresse


Re: Tallest STMFC?

finkfam98055
 

--- In STMFC@..., "laramielarry" <ostresh@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "finkfam98055" <finkfam2@> wrote:

A trivia question -
What was the tallest Steam Era Freight Car in interchange service
as
measured from the rail?
Larry Fink
Hi Larry

Here are the series with the largest interior heights for box and
auto cars from the Jan. 1938, Apr. 1942, Jan. 1945, Apr. 1949, and
Jul. 1950 ORERs, with the extreme heights in parentheses at the end:

Road, Series, IL,IH,Door,Capy,#1938,#1942,#1945,#1949,#1950
(Extreme)
ATSF, 6450-6459, 50'7", 12'4", 14'6", 80000,NA,10, 12, NA, NA
(17'1")
ATSF, 6470-6489, 50'7", 12'4", 14'6", 80000,NA,4, 4, NA, NA (17'1")
ATSF, 6330-6347, 50'6", 12'4", 14'6", 66000,NA,NA, 15, NA, NA
(17'1")
ATSF, 6350-6378, 40'6", 12'4", 12'6", 80000,NA,NA, 26, NA, NA
(17'1")
MILW, 272000-272016, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA,17,NA,NA
(17'1")
MILW, 272100-272104, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA, 5,NA,NA
(17'1")
MILW, 272200-272209, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA,10,NA,NA
(17'1")
MILW, 272300-272302, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA, 3,NA,NA
(17'1")
RI, 259000-259019, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 20,NA, NA
(17'0")
RI, 260000-260005, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 6, NA, NA
(17'0")
RI, 263000-263007, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 8, NA, NA
(17'0")
RI, 264000-264149, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 21,54, 54
(17'0")
SI, 1672-1698, 39'0", 12'0", '", 80000, 14, NA, NA, NA, NA (16'0")
UP, 561000-561199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA, 36,NA,NA
(17'0")
UP, 561134-561182, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 45000, NA,NA, 4, NA,NA
(17'0")
UP, 562000-562199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA, NA, 4, 5
(17'0")
UP, 563000-563199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA, NA, 3, 4
(17'0")
UP, 563182, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 45000, NA, NA, NA, 1, 1 (17'0")
UP, 564000-564199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA,NA, 4, 5
(17'0")

All of the series except the Spokane International have an IH of
12'4.
The SI cars are interesting in that they appear earlier than any of
the others and are 10" higher (IH) than their nearest competitor in
1938. The ORER says they "have been changed from Flat cars to
Temporary Box cars."

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming
Thanks to all who responded to my question about the tallest steam-
era car. It's great to have that information captured. Being a
Seattle Boeing employee now, I'll have to check out those steam-era
UP cars used to ship airplane assemblies between Seattle (or Renton)
and Wichita!

Evidently, the tallest was the 17'-3" CB&Q extended-height XA-14D
cars circa 1942-1944 reported by Rupert Gamlen. Larry Ostresh
provided a valuable list of other tall cars from the ORERs.
Evidently the extended height of the CB&Q cars didn't make it into
the ORER (or did it)? I've since discovered references to
this "bomber box" CB&Q car used between Baltimore and Omaha for B-26
production, and note that it's for sale as Sunshine Models kit
#22.5. A photo of the kit and prototype information can be found at
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun22c.pdf

Larry


Re: GN frt cars in interchange

finkfam98055
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Larry Fink wrote (in a great post):
GN 76478 (GS) gondola with "Company Run-of-Mine Coal" destined
for "Chisn"(?).
Betcha that would be "Chian" (Cheyenne).
The most interesting thing to me in the list is the number of
box
cars with coal or other bulk loads. Also interesting to see so much
LCL, and even a stock car with lumber.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Chian representing Cheyenne is a good guess, and there is no station
that starts "Chi" in UP's list. However, that same conductor
(Harrison) spelled out Cheyenne 4 other times for cars in the train.
So, I don't know...

Members might be interested to know of the 2,620 cars in the limited
records of UP trains in 1947-1948 (mainly in the Cheyenne area),
those 32 GN cars represent 1% of the total. SP was 2% of the cars,
and ATSF (not including SFRD) was also 2%. (Counting the 7 T&NO cars
would make the SP cars round off to 3%) Perhaps not unexpected is
that PFE cars were 17%. SFRD cars were themselves 2%. Refrigerator
cars made up 28% of all cars, 5% were hoppers and 16% some type of
gondola (with coal). The "home road" UP cars made up only 15% (not
counting PFE). PRR cars were 7%. NYC was pretty well represented
with 4%. I'm surprised ATSF and SP cars are not a larger
percentage. I wouldn't have guessed NYC would outnumber them. I'm
not too surprised at the number of PRR cars just because there were
so many. Are these figures consistent with your impressions, Tony?

By the way, I got to thinking about the cows in the GN boxcar. The
mean low-temperature for Cheyenne in December is 17 F with a
potential for sub-zero, and they were probably high-value dairy cows
(not for slaughter) owing to their California destination. Plus, it
was coupled right behind the Challenger's tender for possible special
attention (and maybe to avoid slack action). So maybe it's not too
strange to ship livestock in a boxcar under those conditions?

Larry


Re: 100 car roster of foreign road boxcars

water.kresse@...
 

Does CO = C&O? I have few C&O FC pix fron North Carolina.

Al Kresse

-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Dave Nelson" <Lake_Muskoka@...>
Posted w/o intending to start another distribution discussion.

I came across a spreadsheet in my files comparing data from the US roster of
boxcars to a sighting sample. I recognized it was from the Southern Rwy
wheel reports I have, dated in 1950, recorded in North Carolina. I'm not
sure at this date what exactly went into the various sums that formed the
basis for calculating percentages (CN, CP, and SOU had been removed as
should be expected) so I cannot vouch for it being completely accurate. At
any rate there was something there that might still be of interest / use to
someone else, and that was the set of numbers seen below. Simply put, it's
the expected vs. sighted boxcars reduced to the proverbial 100 car roster of
foreign road boxcars. The original sample was 1046 cars.

As you can see from the numbers, there are differences from the expected...
But IMO, on the whole, (1) the data argues for a very broad list of road
names and (2) there is a very distinct pattern here that can be put to use
as you see fit.

As for what to do with the variations -- when the expected is 1 and the
sighting is 2, or vice versa -- If that's a great affront, one can fix it in
the next operating session.

FWIW, enjoy.

Dave Nelson
++++++++++

Road.....Expected....Sighted
..........100 Car....100 Car
...........Roster.....Roster

CN....................
PRR..........10..........10
NYC..........10..........9
CP....................
ATSF.........5..........5
MILW.........5..........3
BO...........4..........4
SP...........4..........3
SOU....................
UP...........4..........4
CNW..........3..........5
GN...........3..........2
CBQ..........3..........4
IC...........3..........3
NP...........3..........3
RI...........3..........3
MP...........3..........2
CO...........2..........3
SLSF.........2..........2
ERIE.........2..........3
LN...........2..........4
WAB..........2..........1
ACL..........2..........2
SAL..........1..........2
NW...........1..........2
SOO..........1..........1
NKP..........1..........2
GTW..........1..........1
DLW..........1..........1
RDG..........1..........1
TNO..........1..........1
PM...........1..........2
GMO..........1..........1
NH...........1..........0
LV...........1..........0
MKT..........1..........1
DRGW.........1..........1
TP...... ....1..........1
PLE..........1..........0
SSW..........1..........1
CGW..........1..........0
NCSL.........1..........0
CMO..........1..........0
MEC..........0..........1
CG...........0..........1
KCS..........0..........0
BM...........0..........1
IGN..........0..........0
WLE..........0..........1
DTI..........0..........0
DH...........0..........0
MSL..........0..........0
WM...........0..........0
BAR..........0..........0
WP...........0..........0
CNJ..........0..........0
CRP..........0..........0
EJE..........0..........0
GA...........0..........0
ITC..........0..........0
CEI..........0..........0
CIL..........0..........0
BA...........0..........0
BLE..........0..........0
FWD..........0..........0
IHB..........0..........0
NS...........0..........0
CV...........0..........0
LNE..........0..........0
CRR..........0..........0
CWC..........0..........0
PE...........0..........0
CIM..........0..........0
MI...........0..........0
FEC..........0..........0
RFP..........0..........0
VGN..........0..........0
ELS..........0..........0
HC...........0..........0
WA...........0..........0


Re: colors for Great Northern . . .

Bruce Smith
 

On Tue, September 2, 2008 7:16 pm, Thomas Baker wrote:



This is an interesting thread: Somewhere I came across a discussion about
this matter. The authorities on the subject stated that the original
paint on the plywood boxcars was of course Omaha orange and NOT Pullman
green ends and roof BUT black. Surely, a GN researcher out there
somewhere has incontrovertible data to settle this.

Tom
Tom,

I don't believe that anyone in this thread ever said that they had green
ends and roof. The painting instructions in the Sunshine kit, as well as
the GN instructions clearly specify black ends, roof and underbody. What
was green was the sides of the ends, the "fascia" at the top of the car,
the side sill of the car and the hardware (grabs, side tack boards etc)

Regards
Bruce
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


100 car roster of foreign road boxcars

Dave Nelson
 

Posted w/o intending to start another distribution discussion.

I came across a spreadsheet in my files comparing data from the US roster of
boxcars to a sighting sample. I recognized it was from the Southern Rwy
wheel reports I have, dated in 1950, recorded in North Carolina. I'm not
sure at this date what exactly went into the various sums that formed the
basis for calculating percentages (CN, CP, and SOU had been removed as
should be expected) so I cannot vouch for it being completely accurate. At
any rate there was something there that might still be of interest / use to
someone else, and that was the set of numbers seen below. Simply put, it's
the expected vs. sighted boxcars reduced to the proverbial 100 car roster of
foreign road boxcars. The original sample was 1046 cars.

As you can see from the numbers, there are differences from the expected...
But IMO, on the whole, (1) the data argues for a very broad list of road
names and (2) there is a very distinct pattern here that can be put to use
as you see fit.

As for what to do with the variations -- when the expected is 1 and the
sighting is 2, or vice versa -- If that's a great affront, one can fix it in
the next operating session.

FWIW, enjoy.

Dave Nelson
++++++++++

Road.....Expected....Sighted
..........100 Car....100 Car
...........Roster.....Roster


CN....................
PRR..........10..........10
NYC..........10..........9
CP....................
ATSF.........5..........5
MILW.........5..........3
BO...........4..........4
SP...........4..........3
SOU....................
UP...........4..........4
CNW..........3..........5
GN...........3..........2
CBQ..........3..........4
IC...........3..........3
NP...........3..........3
RI...........3..........3
MP...........3..........2
CO...........2..........3
SLSF.........2..........2
ERIE.........2..........3
LN...........2..........4
WAB..........2..........1
ACL..........2..........2
SAL..........1..........2
NW...........1..........2
SOO..........1..........1
NKP..........1..........2
GTW..........1..........1
DLW..........1..........1
RDG..........1..........1
TNO..........1..........1
PM...........1..........2
GMO..........1..........1
NH...........1..........0
LV...........1..........0
MKT..........1..........1
DRGW.........1..........1
TP...... ....1..........1
PLE..........1..........0
SSW..........1..........1
CGW..........1..........0
NCSL.........1..........0
CMO..........1..........0
MEC..........0..........1
CG...........0..........1
KCS..........0..........0
BM...........0..........1
IGN..........0..........0
WLE..........0..........1
DTI..........0..........0
DH...........0..........0
MSL..........0..........0
WM...........0..........0
BAR..........0..........0
WP...........0..........0
CNJ..........0..........0
CRP..........0..........0
EJE..........0..........0
GA...........0..........0
ITC..........0..........0
CEI..........0..........0
CIL..........0..........0
BA...........0..........0
BLE..........0..........0
FWD..........0..........0
IHB..........0..........0
NS...........0..........0
CV...........0..........0
LNE..........0..........0
CRR..........0..........0
CWC..........0..........0
PE...........0..........0
CIM..........0..........0
MI...........0..........0
FEC..........0..........0
RFP..........0..........0
VGN..........0..........0
ELS..........0..........0
HC...........0..........0
WA...........0..........0


Re: colors for Great Northern . . .

Thomas Baker
 

This is an interesting thread: Somewhere I came across a discussion about this matter. The authorities on the subject stated that the original paint on the plywood boxcars was of course Omaha orange and NOT Pullman green ends and roof BUT black. Surely, a GN researcher out there somewhere has incontrovertible data to settle this.

Tom


Re: colors for Great Northern . . .

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

This reminds of hearing, years ago, that GN modelers had many
disagreements about exactly what the GN green really is: is it Pullman
green, or dark olive green like the Harriman Lines green, or is it
close to military olive drab?
I do know that at least one commercial paint calling itself
"GN green" is an accurate match to SP color chips for "Dark Olive"
passenger car paint, and NOT to Pullman green.
Can the GN folks on the list bring me up to date on this
issue? I'd be interested.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
Tony,
According to GN Ry. stencil diagram #33257 dated 8/3/41 for NW-3 locomotives,
reprinted in by GNRHS in Reference Sheet #21, the green is clearly labeled "Pullman
Green" with Duco color number 254-4558 and Dulux color number 88-4552 being given.
If you really want to see the fur fly, discuss the color of GN steam locomotive boiler
jackets, GN diesel lettering colors, or the color of the roofs of GN heavyweight passenger
cars. Just not on this list, please.
To bring this message back on topic, the green color on GN's plywood boxcars is given
as Pullman Green by John Westley in GNRHS reference sheet #171, and GN stencil diagram
#25985 dated 5/18/44 was reproduced in GNRHS reference sheet #37. It lists the color
as "green" and states "for colors, see goat monogram drawing 27774". An earlier version
of the goat monogram drawing numbered 198 had apparently been used on some cars as
well, and was lined out on diagram #25985. Unfortunately, neither monogram diagram is
reproduced in RS #37.
It is a moot point probably, because you are better off matching the paint to the decals
you are going to use. And FWIW, IMHO you should replace the decals that come with the
Sunshine kits with Champ set HB-528. The "font" (sorry Tony) is not accurate in the
included lettering. I believe we may be getting another set of decals for these cars, but
that is in the future. The Champ decals are still available if you need them now.

Sincerely,
Robert D. Heninger
Iowa City, Iowa


Re: GN frt cars in interchange

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Staffan--

Here are some GN cars loaded at the CN Tiffin no. 2 elevator,
Midland, Ontario, Canada, during WWII--

15.1 % moisture content 2Y corn ex steamer Phillip Minch from
Chicago, unloaded April 11/12, 1942--

GN 45152 1 April, 1943 2000 bushels

GN 23870 5 April, 1943 2000 bushels

#1 wheat ex steamer Mathewston from "Lakehead" (Fort William or Port
Arthur, ON) unloaded 26 April, 1942--

GN 42740 5 May, 1942 1900 bushels

GN 52300 8 May, 1942 2000 bushels

#1 wheat ex steamer Emperor (origin port not given), unloaded 20/21
June, 1942--

GN 9372 4 November, 1942 1500 bushels

#1 wheat ex steamer Secord from Port Arthur, ON, unloaded 20/21 July,
1942--

GN 49848 7 November, 1942 2000 bushels

These are just a few. I'm sure that I'll find more if I look further
in the ledger.

Hope that this helps,

Steve Lucas.



P.S. For the benefit of STMFC members, just about every US road's
cars appear on this ledger as having been loded at the Tiffin
elevator within a three-year timeframe from 28 August, 1941 to 10
July, 1944. As the elevator had a 4 1/2 million bushel capacity, a
lot of grain moved through it.

Some examples--

OSL 307294 2000 bushels #2 wheat 12 Feb., 1943.
OWR&N 188806 2000 bushels #2 wheat 14 Feb., 1943.
ERIE 79144 2000 bushels #2 wheat 14 Feb., 1943.
L&N 5540 1600 bushels #2 wheat 14 Feb., 1943.
ATSF 127978 2000 bushels #2 wheat 8 March, 1943.



--- In STMFC@..., "frtcar" <staffan.ehnbom@...> wrote:

I intend to try and do a clinic on Great Northern freight cars in
interchange and would love to hear samples of GN cars shown to be
on "foreign"roads. I would appreciate receiveing info on the GN car
number, location or in a train headed where from where? Info on
what
the load was, perhaps even where originated and where bound for, if
applicable, would be "icing on the cake". If my e-mail can't be
deduced
from the posting it is staffan dot ehnbom at telia dot com.

Staffan Ehnbom


Re: Question re Tichy USRA hopper - HO

Jonathan Grant <jonagrant@...>
 

Thanks to all for the assistance with the Tichy USRA hopper for B&O.

Here is the finished article - almost (I noticed a non-standard
handrail at each end, which will now need to be added.

[url]http://www.trainboard.com/railimages/showphoto.php/photo/94304
[/url]


Jon


Re: GN frt cars in interchange

Charles Morrill
 

I guess the rule of thumb would be 'if it can be fit through the door, it was shipped in a boxcar at one time or another'. Excluding uncontainerized liquids of course.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson"

The most interesting thing to me in the list is the number of box
cars with coal or other bulk loads. Also interesting to see so much
LCL, and even a stock car with lumber.

Tony Thompson


RES: Re: colors for Great Northern . . .

Marcelo Lordeiro <mrcustom@...>
 

Dear Tony,



I can’t say I am a GN expert but I have been painting professionaly for 22
years .



Scalecoat makes the Empire Builder Green and the GN Green .



GN green was used ( is used on the models) on the boilers for the
locomotives painted on the Glacier Park scheme.



I painted samples of all kinds of green ( I must have my color chips )
including the dark olive , olive drab , pullman green , GN green , GN EB
green and so .



They are all different. I should say that GN green is GN green !



The GN Historical Society has a color chips available and the Scalecoat
matches.



Hope this help .



Regards





Marcelo Lordeiro

www.mrcustom.com.br

trens@...

Tel.: +55 21 2273-2758



_____

De: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Em nome de Anthony
Thompson
Enviada em: terça-feira, 2 de setembro de 2008 14:15
Para: STMFC@...
Assunto: [STMFC] Re: colors for Great Northern . . .



This reminds of hearing, years ago, that GN modelers had many
disagreements about exactly what the GN green really is: is it Pullman
green, or dark olive green like the Harriman Lines green, or is it
close to military olive drab?
I do know that at least one commercial paint calling itself
"GN green" is an accurate match to SP color chips for "Dark Olive"
passenger car paint, and NOT to Pullman green.
Can the GN folks on the list bring me up to date on this
issue? I'd be interested.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: colors for Great Northern . . .

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

This reminds of hearing, years ago, that GN modelers had many disagreements about exactly what the GN green really is: is it Pullman green, or dark olive green like the Harriman Lines green, or is it close to military olive drab?
I do know that at least one commercial paint calling itself "GN green" is an accurate match to SP color chips for "Dark Olive" passenger car paint, and NOT to Pullman green.
Can the GN folks on the list bring me up to date on this issue? I'd be interested.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: colors for Great Northern Wartime Plywood Boxcars in Orange, Pullman Green and Black

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Gary,
In the Badger Modelfles line there is a GN orange and a GN green
listed. I know that I used the orange on the car that I did, but for
the life of me I can't remember what I used for the green. It might
indeed be the GN green.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

I have finally started to assemble the bodies of my Great Northern
wartime playwood resin kits by Sunshine. Any suggestions for an orange
or pullman green to use? It appears Dayling orange is a close match
but I can't find a "pullman green" that is close to the green lettering
supplied.


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...



Re: GN frt cars in interchange

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Fink wrote (in a great post):
GN 76478 (GS) gondola with "Company Run-of-Mine Coal" destined
for "Chisn"(?).
Betcha that would be "Chian" (Cheyenne).
The most interesting thing to me in the list is the number of box cars with coal or other bulk loads. Also interesting to see so much LCL, and even a stock car with lumber.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: GN frt cars in interchange

Michael Aufderheide
 

Staffan,

The following GN cars from Monon conductors logs from mid 1948 to early 1950. This information only as far as it concerned the work for that day. Most final destinations are unknown. I have included interchanges for thepick-up and destination stations listed. I knowthe car was left at that station but not if itwas interchanged or sent to a local industry.

Date, Train, Road, Type, Number, Contents, Picked Up, Left, Destination.

8/10/48 Train X26N GN flat #66143 tank load picked up Ladoga IN, left Lafayette IN, dest Chicago.

8/23/48 Train 42 (nb local) GN box #47856 mty picked up Bloomington IN, left Romney IN, dest Romney.

9/24/48 Train 43 (sb local) GN hopper #73290 coal load picked up Wallace Jct. IN, left Bloomington IN, dest Gosport Jct. (PRR interchange) [likely loaded on Monons Midland Branch.]

1/10/49 Train X63N GN box #45461 lime stone load picked up Limedale IN, left Bainbridge IN, dest Lafayette Jct (WAB, NYC, NKP interchange)

10/1/49 Train 73 (sb through frt) GN auto boxcar #43564 springs load picked up Linden IN (NKP Interchange) left Bloomington IN, dest L&N in Louisville. [load may be for Ford inLouisville]

10/9/49 Train 72 (nb through frt) GN box #51232 merchandise load picked up Bloomington IN, left Lafayette IN, dest Monon IN freight transfer shed.


11/24/49 Train 43 (sb local) GN box #51184 lumber load picked up Lafayette IN, left Roachdale IN, dest. Roachdale. (BO interchange)

12/26/49 Train X65N GN hopper #73546 company coal load picked up Midland IN, left Wallace Jct. IN, dest Bloomington IN. [ for roundhouse or derrick? steam locomotives are gone by this date)

2/5/50 Train 72 (nb through frt) GN box #11184 earth load picked up Ames IN (PRR, NYC interchange) left Bloomington IN, dest Chicago.

2/27/50 Train 71 (sb through frt) GN box #52069 lime stone load picked up Limedale IN (PRR interchange) left Lafayette IN, dest Alida IN (BO interchange)


Regards,

Mike Aufderheide

--- On Sun, 8/31/08, frtcar <staffan.ehnbom@...> wrote:

From: frtcar <staffan.ehnbom@...>
Subject: [STMFC] GN frt cars in interchange
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, August 31, 2008, 3:23 PM






I intend to try and do a clinic on Great Northern freight cars in
interchange and would love to hear samples of GN cars shown to be
on "foreign"roads. I would appreciate receiveing info on the GN car
number, location or in a train headed where from where? Info on what
the load was, perhaps even where originated and where bound for, if
applicable, would be "icing on the cake". If my e-mail can't be deduced
from the posting it is staffan dot ehnbom at telia dot com.

Staffan Ehnbom


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: colors for Great Northern Wartime Plywood Boxcars in Orange, Pullman Green and Black

gary laakso
 

I have finally started to assemble the bodies of my Great Northern wartime playwood resin kits by Sunshine. Any suggestions for an orange or pullman green to use? It appears Dayling orange is a close match but I can't find a "pullman green" that is close to the green lettering supplied.


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


Re: Tallest STMFC?

laramielarry <ostresh@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "finkfam98055" <finkfam2@...> wrote:

A trivia question -
What was the tallest Steam Era Freight Car in interchange service
as
measured from the rail?
Larry Fink
Hi Larry

Here are the series with the largest interior heights for box and
auto cars from the Jan. 1938, Apr. 1942, Jan. 1945, Apr. 1949, and
Jul. 1950 ORERs, with the extreme heights in parentheses at the end:

Road, Series, IL,IH,Door,Capy,#1938,#1942,#1945,#1949,#1950 (Extreme)
ATSF, 6450-6459, 50'7", 12'4", 14'6", 80000,NA,10, 12, NA, NA (17'1")
ATSF, 6470-6489, 50'7", 12'4", 14'6", 80000,NA,4, 4, NA, NA (17'1")
ATSF, 6330-6347, 50'6", 12'4", 14'6", 66000,NA,NA, 15, NA, NA (17'1")
ATSF, 6350-6378, 40'6", 12'4", 12'6", 80000,NA,NA, 26, NA, NA (17'1")
MILW, 272000-272016, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA,17,NA,NA (17'1")
MILW, 272100-272104, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA, 5,NA,NA (17'1")
MILW, 272200-272209, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA,10,NA,NA (17'1")
MILW, 272300-272302, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0",100000,NA,NA, 3,NA,NA (17'1")
RI, 259000-259019, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 20,NA, NA (17'0")
RI, 260000-260005, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 6, NA, NA (17'0")
RI, 263000-263007, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 8, NA, NA (17'0")
RI, 264000-264149, 50'6", 12'4", 12'0", 64000,NA,NA, 21,54, 54 (17'0")
SI, 1672-1698, 39'0", 12'0", '", 80000, 14, NA, NA, NA, NA (16'0")
UP, 561000-561199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA, 36,NA,NA (17'0")
UP, 561134-561182, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 45000, NA,NA, 4, NA,NA (17'0")
UP, 562000-562199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA, NA, 4, 5 (17'0")
UP, 563000-563199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA, NA, 3, 4 (17'0")
UP, 563182, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 45000, NA, NA, NA, 1, 1 (17'0")
UP, 564000-564199, 50'6", 12'4", 15'0", 100000,NA,NA,NA, 4, 5 (17'0")

All of the series except the Spokane International have an IH of 12'4.
The SI cars are interesting in that they appear earlier than any of
the others and are 10" higher (IH) than their nearest competitor in
1938. The ORER says they "have been changed from Flat cars to
Temporary Box cars."

Best wishes,
Larry Ostresh
Laramie, Wyoming