Date   

Re: Hart Convertible Ballast cars...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Well, uh, no. The steel hoppers were Rodger Hart Selective ballast cars, and were fundamentally different from the Hart Convertible cars because the latter had to be rearranged for dumping between or outside the rails by manual labor, whereas the Hart Selective cars had dump doors which could be controlled by levers to dump between,
outside, or any combination thereof.
True. The Hart Convertibles had to be set up before loading, and then couldn't be later rearranged for other dumping routes, once they were full of ballast.
I was thinking of both the hopper-stye cars of the 1920s (which were Hart Selective) and the all-steel Hart Convertible cars of the 1910 era, such as the ones SP inherited from EP&SW and which are shown in my Vol. 1 on SP cars, but a Richard points out, these don't really fit into the same thought.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Hart Convertible Ballast cars...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 10, 2009, at 4:49 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Some caution is in order here; jumping to conclusions about Hart
Convertible ballast cars is especially hazardous because the design
evolved very rapidly in the years immediately following the turn of
the century.
This is quite true. The term "Hart Convertible" only indicated an
ability to dump inside or outside of the rails. In the 1920s, Rodger
was selling all-steel ballast hoppers with doors which could dump in
that way, and they too were "Hart Convertible" cars.












Well, uh, no. The steel hoppers were Rodger Hart Selective ballast
cars, and were fundamentally different from the Hart Convertible cars
because the latter had to be rearranged for dumping between or
outside the rails by manual labor, whereas the Hart Selective cars
had dump doors which could be controlled by levers to dump between,
outside, or any combination thereof. I know all this because I'm
currently working on the ballast car chapter in my forthcoming book
on Santa Fe flat cars and gondolas.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Nickel Plate Products X31b, H.O

hummerdaves
 

---

Bruce and all, Thank you for the info. The car I have is just as
explained here.

'I have a NPP X31b that I picked up somewhere years ago: dunno how
many runs there were. Mine has flush roof, double doors, longitudinal
air reservoir, but minimal underbody detailing. The floor is sheet
brass with no stringers at all, center sills only.'

I would need to build the complete under frame equipment just can't
live with such a bare spot in that area.

As for not doing a PRR car there have been so many done I would like
to model a different road, put I do have the shadow Keystone decals :]
I might even check into the DT&I just to see what they look like.
The N&W car would be a nice starting point.
I will post a photo of the car with in a day or so.

Dave S.


Re: Hart Convertible Ballast cars...

Jack Burgess
 

Tony and Richard both make valid points regarding these cars. I suspect that
if a large railroad purchased these wood/truss rod cars and used them in
service extensively, they didn't last long. (Those on the YV lasted until
1941.)

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Hart Convertible Ballast cars...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Some caution is in order here; jumping to conclusions about Hart Convertible ballast cars is especially hazardous because the design evolved very rapidly in the years immediately following the turn of the century.
This is quite true. The term "Hart Convertible" only indicated an ability to dump inside or outside of the rails. In the 1920s, Rodger was selling all-steel ballast hoppers with doors which could dump in that way, and they too were "Hart Convertible" cars.

Most of us won't find the models Jack is having produced of the YV cars to be at
all useful . . .
I'd say "practically none of us," but of course Jack needs them.

. . . the HO models that have been produced in the past representing 40' Hart ballast cars, aside from being quite crude by current standards, represent versions that most railroads didn't own.
Yes, equally true of the old Silver Streak kit and the more recent Walthers plastic version--the latter having neatly introduced errors not in the Silver Streak version.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Hart Convertible Ballast cars...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:22 PM, David Turner wrote:

Back in November, Jack Burgess inquired about some 36 foot,
40 ton, wooden Hart Convertible Ballast cars with both side
and bottom dump doors that the Yosemite Valley RR owned.





[snip]

All in all, these 36 foot and 40 foot Hart Convertible
Ballast cars seem to be great candidates for HO models. I
look forward to hearing more about the models of the 36 foot
cars as they move closer to production.







Some caution is in order here; jumping to conclusions about Hart
Convertible ballast cars is especially hazardous because the design
evolved very rapidly in the years immediately following the turn of
the century. The Santa Fe purchased 600 36' cars in 1902 (class Ga-
K) which were all wood cars with truss rod underframes. Only three
years later, when AC&F delivered 850 Ga-N class cars, they were 40'
car with fishbelly steel underframes, and a year after that, the 400
cars of class Ga-Q had steel truss body framing. The design then
continued to develop into a number of different variants, the most
common being a 40' car with inset fishbelly side sills. Between the
time the Hart Convertible design was first introduced at the turn of
the century and the time it was discontinued in the late 1920s, there
were at least a dozen quite different versions of it. Most of us
won't find the models Jack is having produced of the YV cars to be at
all useful, and the HO models that have been produced in the past
representing 40' Hart ballast cars, aside from being quite crude by
current standards, represent versions that most railroads didn't own.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Magnolia Tank Car Weathering

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 10, 2009, at 12:53 PM, yingstco wrote:
I am modeling one of the P2K white Magnolia tank cars to represent
late 1947. To what level should I weather the car? Were they kept
clean? I am amazed they would have chosen white for a tank car.





Interesting that you should raise this question, Dave, as I model
October, 1947 and I have weathered my own P2K tank car model. The
short answer is that it should be quite heavily weathered and dirty,
as Magnolia abandoned the billboard lettering (though not the white
paint) at the beginning of World War II. Most photos of Magnolia
cars from the postwar period show them with white tanks but only
reporting mars, number and data in black. Bruce Smith's suggestions
would be well worth following.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

On Feb 10, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger wrote:

So where are they located, when are they open, and how does one get
into the place? Do they allow one to copy the photos or do they
require that they do it? What is their charge for this? Or is all
of this on a web page?

Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Tue, 2/10/09, r1ddell <jriddell@interlog.com> wrote:

From: r1ddell <jriddell@interlog.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, February 10, 2009, 4:51 AM

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger
<durrecj@... > wrote:

About what range of dates do these photos cover?

Cyril Durrenberger
A huge photo collection ranging from about 1860 to 1960.
It is unlikely to ever be totally "scanned" but all are available.

John Riddell


--- On Mon, 2/9/09, Roger Hinman <rhinman@... > wrote:
From: Roger Hinman <rhinman@... >
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Photos from the National Archives of Canada
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Date: Monday, February 9, 2009, 3:19 PM












http://web.archive. org/web/20010806
091133/http: //www.ncf. carleton. ca/

~bn459/index. html



The link is an online catalog that's pretty old. The bulk of the

collection up there has yet to be scanned. I've been through about
a

dozen boxes up there but don't recall seeing much FGEX if any.

A lot of the photos are of AC&F cars and cars that made it into
the

Car Cycs



Roger Hinman

On Feb 9, 2009, at 2:38 PM, lnbill wrote:



Does anyone have an up-to-date list of the Merreles (sp?) photo
collection at the Nat'l Archives of Canada. I had one from Richard
Burg years ago but cannot find it and I have to believe some
additions

have been made to it.
Bill Welch







































Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 10, 2009, at 11:54 AM, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I've been told, by one of my friends from the Great White North, that
Andrew Merrilees was a dealer in used railroad equipment, and also a
railfan, who used his contacts in the industry to cadge official
photos out of the files of many locations. There is a lot of stuff in
that collection, and most of it is NOT centered around Canadian
railways, although they are well represented.








I will add to this that Merrilees frequented swap meets and auctions
of railroadiana and photos and, when he couldn't attend, sent agents
who were instructed to out-bid everyone else unless the prices went
totally into orbit. He is reputed to have been very unpopular with
other collectors in eastern Canada and the northeastern US for that
reason. As a result, there is now a great deal of material in the
NAC archives from private collections, as well as from industry
sources. For example, one thing I noticed was that there seemed to
be a photo of every 20th century steam locomotive the New York
Central System ever owned, as well as some freight car photos from
private collections. There's so much there that it probably won't
all get cataloged in our lifetimes; to find what you want, you really
have to be willing to go to Ottawa and spend several days pawing
through it. Fortunately, when I was there some years ago the
archivists at NAC were very good about providing access to people
with appropriate documentation. At that time, they contracted out
their photo reproduction, and though it wasn't cheap the quality was
very good. Now that they are scanning instead of making prints from
copy negs, I would expect the quality of the scans to be equally
good. One caveat, for those who make the trek to Ottawa; Merrillees
was apparently a pipe smoker, and some of the prints I viewed had
tobacco crumbs stuck to them, which it would be well to clean off
before having copies made.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Bob's Photos

reporterllc
 

I forgot to mention that Funaro & Camerlengo will be there too. :)

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "wabash2813" <reporterllc@...> wrote:

According to the vendor list Bob will be at the Ann Arbor Model
Railroad Club's show in Saline, Michigan this Sunday (February 15.)

http://a2trainshow.com/

Every man for himself!

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Bob's Photos

reporterllc
 

According to the vendor list Bob will be at the Ann Arbor Model
Railroad Club's show in Saline, Michigan this Sunday (February 15.)

http://a2trainshow.com/

Every man for himself!

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Re: Magnolia Tank Car Weathering

Charles Morrill
 

I only get a "Not Found" message with this url.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Brennan" <brennan8@earthlink.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Magnolia Tank Car Weathering


At 12:53 PM 2/10/2009, yingstco wrote:
I am modeling one of the P2K white Magnolia tank cars to represent
late 1947. To what level should I weather the car? Were they kept
clean? I am amazed they would have chosen white for a tank car.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Take photo:
<http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=d4a027a3d4f601fd>;http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=d4a027a3d4f601fd

add 5 years of grime?

Note the brakeman riding 2 o'clock on #1550...


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





Toronto area Prototype Modellers' Meet

sparachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

Friends: We are happy to announce that the Prototype Modellers' Meet
is going ahead as planned, March 14 at Humber College. If any of our
American friends are going to be in the Toronto area please feel free
to drop by. We will have some well known local modellers giving talks
on various topics, lots of models to be seen and lots of pleasant
conversation with like-minded model builders. There is a ten dollar
admission fee.

Alan Welch has done a great job presenting this meet for the last few
years. Work pressures are too much for him to carry on but I think we
owe him a big vote of thanks for the work he has done. We are going to
try and live up to the standards that Alan and his predecessors have
established and hopefully a good time will be had by all.

For my own interest I'd appreciate you letting me know
(sparachuk@hotmail.com)if you're planning to attend or if you have any
other questions or comments.

Stephan Parachuk
Toronto


Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada

Stephan Parachuk <sparachuk@...>
 

Andrew Merrilees was indeed an used equipment supplier here in Toronto. He had a tiny yard in west Toronto. Back in the seventies I used to drive a cab and I always liked driving by his place. I've seen several different ALCo switchers there over the years and even a fireless cooker.
Stephan Parachuk
Toronto

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Storzek
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 10, 2009 2:54 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

> Cyril, reportedly Andrew Merrilees purchased a vast amount of
> archives from Simmons-Boardman, both material which had appeared in the
> Cycs, and material submitted but not used for that purpose...

I've been told, by one of my friends from the Great White North, that
Andrew Merrilees was a dealer in used railroad equipment, and also a
railfan, who used his contacts in the industry to cadge official
photos out of the files of many locations. There is a lot of stuff in
that collection, and most of it is NOT centered around Canadian
railways, although they are well represented.

Dennis


Re: Magnolia Tank Car Weathering

Bruce Smith
 

On Feb 10, 2009, at 2:53 PM, yingstco wrote:

I am modeling one of the P2K white Magnolia tank cars to represent
late 1947. To what level should I weather the car? Were they kept
clean? I am amazed they would have chosen white for a tank car.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave Yingst
Dave,

From the top, weather with an overall coat of sooty/grimy black to show the dirt from steam locomotives.

From the bottom, weather with a lighter grimier color for road dirt... perhaps even with "spray lines" from the plain bearing truck journal leaks.

Around the dome, add a heavier covering of oily black to duplicate oil spilled during loading. This can be both generalized, and streaked.

A few streaks of gloss over some of the spilled oil for fresh wet spills.

Add some rust next to the tank bands, especially the outer bands, as well as the truck springs etc...

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Magnolia Tank Car Weathering

Richard Brennan <brennan8@...>
 

At 12:53 PM 2/10/2009, yingstco wrote:
I am modeling one of the P2K white Magnolia tank cars to represent
late 1947. To what level should I weather the car? Were they kept
clean? I am amazed they would have chosen white for a tank car.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Take photo:
<http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=d4a027a3d4f601fd>;http://images.google.com/hosted/life/l?imgurl=d4a027a3d4f601fd

add 5 years of grime?

Note the brakeman riding 2 o'clock on #1550...


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA
--------------------


Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

FYI, the quality of some of the photographs in the collection is
superb; however they no
longer make photographic copies but do electronic scans. Items
prefixed with PA are older copy photos; newer
items are prefixed with an ec. The scans are nice but not as nice as
the original photos.

Roger Hinman

On Feb 10, 2009, at 2:56 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I've been told, by one of my friends from the Great White North,
that
Andrew Merrilees was a dealer in used railroad equipment, and also a
railfan, who used his contacts in the industry to cadge official
photos out of the files of many locations.
I can well believe this. There is an awful lot of stuff that
never appeared in a Cyc, though it is often nice to get a good, sharp
print of a photo previously seen only in a Cyc, which were never
printed with the best screens or paper anyway.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



Magnolia Tank Car Weathering

yingstco <flyingy@...>
 

I am modeling one of the P2K white Magnolia tank cars to represent
late 1947. To what level should I weather the car? Were they kept
clean? I am amazed they would have chosen white for a tank car.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Dave Yingst
Corning, CA


Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
I've been told, by one of my friends from the Great White North, that Andrew Merrilees was a dealer in used railroad equipment, and also a railfan, who used his contacts in the industry to cadge official photos out of the files of many locations.
I can well believe this. There is an awful lot of stuff that never appeared in a Cyc, though it is often nice to get a good, sharp print of a photo previously seen only in a Cyc, which were never printed with the best screens or paper anyway.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Photos from the National Archives of Canada

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Cyril, reportedly Andrew Merrilees purchased a vast amount of
archives from Simmons-Boardman, both material which had appeared in the
Cycs, and material submitted but not used for that purpose...
I've been told, by one of my friends from the Great White North, that
Andrew Merrilees was a dealer in used railroad equipment, and also a
railfan, who used his contacts in the industry to cadge official
photos out of the files of many locations. There is a lot of stuff in
that collection, and most of it is NOT centered around Canadian
railways, although they are well represented.

Dennis

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