Date   

Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

Two examples:


1) When I visited the Charles Kettering archives at the General Motors Institute library (GMI, Flint, Mich.) a few years ago, I found reference to a photo of Mr. Kettering with B&O's CMO George Emerson in the finding aids. Emerson photos are rare.

Upon retrieval, the actual photo was not Emerson, but his B&O boss, Vice President C. W. Galloway, at the controls of the first EMC EA in 1937.

When I informed the curator of this mistake, he said that Mr. Kettering said it was Mr. Emerson and that was the way it would remain. (Who am I to question the original source?)


Freight car content: at the time it was open to the public every day (I have no idea how GM's finaicial troubles affect their library but it can't be good), this libary had a COMPLETE set of SAE papers, including railroad rolling stock topics. This is impossible to find elsewhere. Most libraries just have the bound transactions, a greatest hits treatment.



Which reminds me of ....


2) At the Barriger 15 years ago, I found a Porter Industrial Locomotive Catalog in the Union Pacific gas turbine file. A grtoss mistake. The then curator responded that if it was there, Mr. Barriger must have had a good reason to put it there. This misfiling was before much of this was cataloged, hence impossible to find with finding aids. Provinance is king, even when absurdly wrong.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:

Two weeks ago I was researching the M&StL at the Mercantile Library in St.
Louis, accessing the Barriger Collection. While going through John
Barriger's photo album of the M&StL photos, I noticed more than a few photo
captions contained errors. While these were not freight car photos, a person
using this collection as a first source of historic value, could come away
with incorrect information in their notes. I mentioned the errors to the
attendant, but had no way of correcting the captions. While I knew the
correct information for the M&StL, the experince made me suspicious of other
"facts" recorded for which I was not familiar. I know, you should always
double check and verify, but sometimes when doing historic research you only
have one source.

As to captions in books and magazines, as an author I have submitted
captions which were not used or edited to where I hardly recognized them. If
the person who does the finally proof reading does not know the subject
matter, well .....

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions

jim_mischke <jmischke@...>
 

Craig Bossler did the same thing for the B&O freight car book.

Except ....

1. The B&O point of contact pointedly did not invite our main B&O freight car expert to the evening slide show, mostly because that contact person wanted to be the big hero with no competition. Inexcusable.

2. Mr. Bossler had earler submitted a prelimiary draft to Morning Sun. When he sent the updated revised manuscript to the publisher, he was told the first one was good enough. So none of the B&O expert input was used and it shows. There is a major error in every other caption. A credible first draft, but it is not reliable enough for even reference.


With Morning Sun, TLC and many other railroad publishers, all value added comes from the author. There is no such thing as a first draft. The first and only submitted draft needs to be flawless.



To quote Henry Ford, "All history is bunk." He is so right.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:



Guys,



Dave Hickcox (C&O Color Guide, Morning Sun) had the caption process down correct -- bring in the "experts" for beer and treats in a hotel room after a local train show and have them review the captions with the slides in front of them with him making the corrections/additions on 3 x5 cards for each slide.



Short and sweet for the reviewers.  Payment:  free book, good friendship and help/leads in the future.



Al Kresse


----- Original Message -----
From: cinderandeight@...
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:19:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions








Guys,
I agree with so much of what you are all saying. Recently I was asked
"off handedly" if I could help with the captions of a new book. I agreed,
and the next day I received over 80 photos to caption, so I emailed back
asking for a timeframe for publication, and when he'd like the captions.
The answer was "the book is due out at the end of next month (six weeks
away), and I needed the captions two weeks ago."
I spent the next 7 days almost completely writing and rewriting
captions, farming out a small number and getting constant bombardments of emails
from the impatient editor.
The book was out on time, but given more time I certainly could have
done a lot better job. Errors might have crept into the process, but I
tried to keep the captions "within my base of knowledge". We all have a few
misconceptions from time to time, the learning process is ongoing for
everyone.
Payment for a weeks work? A free copy of the book, and the feeling
you helped record history. This is pretty typical. I wrote the freight car
section for a well known PRR book back in 1993 and got the same constant
harassment from its editor. In the end I cut off the effort at the forth
rewrite of the text. I have my free book, and the feeling I did as good a job
as I could while working 10 hours days, six days a week at a hard outside
job. (I can see Bruce Smith running to his book shelf to figure out which
book it was!)
Is possibly a rule of thumb that the more the captioner gets for his
work, the less likely it will be right? Most of us do this for the love of
it yet.
Rich Burg
**************Huge savings on HDTVs from Dell.com!
( http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1221836042x1201399880/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.doubleclick.ne
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 4 sale-Tahoe Model Works New Coil-Elliptic truck and others

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Hi Andy:

I won't pay for any of your trips with this order, but I will commit
to three of your Branchline Barber truck frames.

I'll get a check off to you.

Just had the counsel and seats recovered on the Goose and have to get
it back together.

Hope to see you later this year.

Bill Pardie

On May 22, 2009, at 11:16 AM, Andy Carlson wrote:



I am offering Brian's trucks for sale to readers of this list.
All TMW trucks are $6.25 list, my price is $5.00/pair

I have the following:

201 Dalmann 2-level plain code 88 wheels
202 Dalmann 2-level lateral device code 88
203 Archbar truck with code 88
204 Bettendorf swing motion with code 88
205 Barber-Bettendorf swing motion code 88
206 Buckeye 50 ton spring plank AAR code 88
207 Double Truss 50 ton AAR self-aligning, spring plankless code 88
208 Coil Eliptic spring plank 50 ton code 88

The above trucks are also available with RP-25 code 110 wheels, same
price

The above trucks are also available less wheelsets for $1.75 pair

******ACCURAIL TRUCKS******
Accurail "Bettendorf" spring plank trucks, less wheelsets $1.00/pair
Proto Accumate semi-scale couplers, 2 pair pack (4 couplers) with
draft gear $2.25/pack
******BRANCHLINE TRAINS TRUCKS******
Branchline Barber 2-A 50 ton plain journal truck less wheelsets
$1.00/pair
******McHENRY Shelf couplers******

McHenry safety shelf couplers 25 pair $22.99 list, $14.00/package of
25 pair

All prices are less shipping. Contact me at
<midcentury@sbcglobal.net> off list (Please). Note: I now accept
PayPal for Payment with a 4% surcharge.

Available now from Tahoe Model Works is the new HO Coil-Elliptic 50-
ton freight car truck.

This is the Double Truss version, with a centered leaf spring with
coil springs on both sides. The prototype trucks either had a spring
plank or were Self Aligning Spring Plankless. I've done the truck
with a spring plank.

The railroads that I know of using this kind of truck on some
equipment during our period include BAR, C&O, CGW, DT&I, Erie, LNE,
N&W, VGN and WM. Some AC&F tank cars built in 1937 also had them.-
Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





Code 88--NOT!

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:
SNIP

I am offering Brian's trucks for sale to readers of this list.
I have the following:
SNIP

208 Coil Eliptic spring plank 50 ton code 88
"Code 88" is a NMRA term for HOn3 RP-25 wheel contour dimensions. Besides being .088" wheel width, the flanges are .005" narrower and shorter. Expect trouble on trackwork layed to Code 110 standards.

The "semi-scale" .088" width wheelsets, as offered on my trucks and available from InterMountain, Reboxx and Branch Line, conform to NMRA's Code 110 dimensions except for overall width which is .022" narrower. The flanges still match the normal Code 110 standards.

I think the only complaint I've read about semi-scale wheelsets is from the owner of a UP Sherman Hill layout with #12 turnouts. We should all be blessed with #12 turnouts!

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV


Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jerryglow2" <jerryglow@...> wrote:

IMHO it's the same mentality that has led to the preponderance of ready to run cars instead of kits.

Jerry Glow
Jerry,
It seems like quite a long mental leap from photo captions, whether good, bad or indifferent, to RTR models vs. kits but any mental leaping I might do seems to get shorter with each passing year.

I, like the rest of you I'm sure, have a stash of unassembled kits going back to the 1960s. (In the 1950s as a student I couldn't afford to buy kits faster than I could assemble them.) That stash is one of the reasons I now buy RTR whenever available. As slowly as I work I'll be long dead before they all get built. Why add to the stash of cars I can't run when the original goal was to populate a model railroad with freight cars I can run.

Just a thought. YMMV.

Gene Green


Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

???

If book captions were uniformly excellent wouldn't that encourage people to just read them and take them at face value without any extra effort? Bad captions or image only books would seem to be more to your liking as they would force everyone to research and cross-check everything. :-)

Seriously though, if everyone built kits to match the cars in the pictures wouldn't that be desirable? Would a model train running a perfect wood-frame boxcar between a perfect double-stack carrier and a perfect 1932 AAR car be better or worse than what you typically see on layouts today?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: jerryglow2

IMHO it's the same mentality that has led to the preponderance of ready to run cars instead of kits.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, asychis@... wrote:

I am absolutely astonished and truly flabbergasted! I had no idea that
this is the case with many railroad book readers! It reads as if perhaps we
could save a lot of time and effort just putting our coloring books! My
four-year old granddaughter would love it! Also reminds me of the scenes in
Fahrenheit 451...just pictures no words.


Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Why is anyone surprised? Just a few days ago on this list it was written: "I've given people the same advice about Sweetland that I do
about the Henderson freight car books: enjoy the photos but put your thumb over the captions while doing so, lest the foolishness seep into
your system."

Apparently the captions in books to date have been so bad that people have been encouraged to ignore them and just look at the pictures. Now, when people actually *do just that*, we are astonished and flabbergasted? Really now, once the word got out that "most books have worthless captions", did you expect the casual reader not to apply it to everything, just to be safe? Yes, yes, you only meant that people should ignore the captions in SOME books while swallowing others whole, but where is the regular book buyer/reader supposed to turn to find a list of the "approved" texts? Where are the errata sheets for the bad ones published?

Nowhere, mon frere.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: asychis@aol.com

Tony Thompson wrote:

"I will second what Gene Green said: many book buyers don't
read captions. I've been asked more than once about some fact
concerning a photo in one of my books, and have replied with some
astonishment, "That's explained in the caption." To which the usual
response is, "oh yeah?"

I am absolutely astonished and truly flabbergasted! I had no idea that
this is the case with many railroad book readers! It reads as if perhaps we
could save a lot of time and effort just putting our coloring books! My
four-year old granddaughter would love it! Also reminds me of the scenes in
Fahrenheit 451...just pictures no words.


Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions

jerryglow2
 

IMHO it's the same mentality that has led to the preponderance of ready to run cars instead of kits.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, asychis@... wrote:

I am absolutely astonished and truly flabbergasted! I had no idea that
this is the case with many railroad book readers! It reads as if perhaps we
could save a lot of time and effort just putting our coloring books! My
four-year old granddaughter would love it! Also reminds me of the scenes in
Fahrenheit 451...just pictures no words.

Jerry Michels


Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers

jerryglow2
 

Was it a complete kit or just sides and ends? (which is what I had). It may have been a plastic version of something once offered in metal.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Interesting, thanks Dennis. Walthers also tooled a composite
gondola (USRA?), another flat kit. I have one of those.

Tim O


Re: The growing problem of erroneous captions

asychis@...
 

Tony Thompson wrote:

"I will second what Gene Green said: many book buyers don't
read captions. I've been asked more than once about some fact
concerning a photo in one of my books, and have replied with some
astonishment, "That's explained in the caption." To which the usual
response is, "oh yeah?"

I am absolutely astonished and truly flabbergasted! I had no idea that
this is the case with many railroad book readers! It reads as if perhaps we
could save a lot of time and effort just putting our coloring books! My
four-year old granddaughter would love it! Also reminds me of the scenes in
Fahrenheit 451...just pictures no words.

Jerry Michels
**************An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
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ExcfooterNO62)


Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

At 5/23/2009 10:08 PM Saturday, you wrote:

Question:

I have a number of Silver streak 50' mechanical reefers for BREX and FGEX.? Silver streak kit
# 2002 is the BREX car with a 3-59 build date.? Are these the same cars?? Are they correct for BREX and FGEX or do I need to re-paint them SFRD?

TIA

Rich Orr


Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers

SUVCWORR@...
 

Question:

I have a number of Silver streak 50' mechanical reefers for BREX and FGEX.? Silver streak kit
# 2002 is the BREX car with a 3-59 build date.? Are these the same cars?? Are they correct for BREX and FGEX or do I need to re-paint them SFRD?

TIA

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 8:47 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers










Interesting, thanks Dennis. Walthers also tooled a composite
gondola (USRA?), another flat kit. I have one of those.

Tim O

P.S. The original Pacific HO kits came with a white metal
Royal F slack adjuster. A very nice part. I don't know if
it was included in the Walthers RBL kits.


As far as I know, the Walthers RBL of that era was the ends, roof
and floor from the original Pacific HO kit married to new sides. I
looked into buying the ends, roof, and floor moldings for a resin
side offering of the Soo Line home built X post boxcars that never
came to pass.

When I asked why they still didn't offer the mechanical reefer, I
got the standard industry reply of "not enough road names". I don't
know if the tool for the original reefer sides had been damaged, or
if the other parts had been modified to accept the new sides. I do
remember that the tool for the RBL sides was brass and had been
engraved in-house. This was about 1985, before Walthers got deeply
involved in having things tooled for their own line.

Dennis


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

Interesting, thanks Dennis. Walthers also tooled a composite
gondola (USRA?), another flat kit. I have one of those.

Tim O

P.S. The original Pacific HO kits came with a white metal
Royal F slack adjuster. A very nice part. I don't know if
it was included in the Walthers RBL kits.

As far as I know, the Walthers RBL of that era was the ends, roof
and floor from the original Pacific HO kit married to new sides. I
looked into buying the ends, roof, and floor moldings for a resin
side offering of the Soo Line home built X post boxcars that never
came to pass.

When I asked why they still didn't offer the mechanical reefer, I
got the standard industry reply of "not enough road names". I don't
know if the tool for the original reefer sides had been damaged, or
if the other parts had been modified to accept the new sides. I do
remember that the tool for the RBL sides was brass and had been
engraved in-house. This was about 1985, before Walthers got deeply
involved in having things tooled for their own line.

Dennis


Re: Jay Bee wheels?

SUVCWORR@...
 

Brain:

Try www.proto87.com

If Andy doesn't have them he can certainly tell you who does.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@mchsi.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, 23 May 2009 1:05 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Jay Bee wheels?










Hi,

I'm looking for contact information for the manufacturer of scale model railroad
wheels. I wonder if the company listed below is the one I'm seeking. If not,
perhaps someone here can point me in the right direction.

-------------

Jay Bee Machine Works
400 Pike Road
Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania 19006

-------------

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa
USA





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


CNW #3 Red-Brown freight car paint

Tim Meyer
 

Hi

Due to the fact I need a quart of paint for the CNW Slogan boxcars I will be painting, I contacted Weaver for their recommendations on the mix for CNW #3 Red-Brown freight car paint. They recommend 2 parts Red Oxide to 1 Part Boxcar Red. And they will mix a quart for me. I did make a trip to the hobby store to pickup a bottle of both Red Oxide and Boxcar Red so I will paint some 3x3 panels and see what they look like.

I was wondering what mixes others have used for CNW freight colors? Again staying with Scalecoat.

Thanks

Tim


Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers

Greg Martin
 

_timboconnor@comcast.net_ (mailto:timboconnor@comcast.net) writes:

"Yes to Golden Spike/Silver Streak. I've never seen a release
from Walthers. Walthers did release an insulated box car kit
that was a flat sided kit but I don't know its origin.

Tim O'Connor"



It was the remnants of the original tooling, they retooled it for the
insulated box. I ask if the original tooling was still around and I got a reply
back, "well, kind-a, sort-a" and then came the explanation.

Greg Martin







**************A strong credit score is 700 or above. See Yours in Just 2
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cd=Maystrongfooter52309NO115)


Re: Jay Bee wheels?

Alan Houtz <ahoutz@...>
 

The one you want is Jay Bee Bennett Enterprises. Walthers & Caboose among many others carry their products. They are located in Villa Park IL. Try Google!

Alan Houtz

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian Chapman" <cornbeltroute@...> wrote:

Hi,

I'm looking for contact information for the manufacturer of scale model railroad wheels. I wonder if the company listed below is the one I'm seeking. If not, perhaps someone here can point me in the right direction.

-------------

Jay Bee Machine Works
400 Pike Road
Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania 19006

-------------

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa
USA


Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Yes to Golden Spike/Silver Streak. I've never seen a release
from Walthers. Walthers did release an insulated box car kit
that was a flat sided kit but I don't know its origin.

Tim O'Connor
As far as I know, the Walthers RBL of that era was the ends, roof and floor from the original Pacific HO kit married to new sides. I looked into buying the ends, roof, and floor moldings for a resin side offering of the Soo Line home built X post boxcars that never came to pass.

When I asked why they still didn't offer the mechanical reefer, I got the standard industry reply of "not enough road names". I don't know if the tool for the original reefer sides had been damaged, or if the other parts had been modified to accept the new sides. I do remember that the tool for the RBL sides was brass and had been engraved in-house. This was about 1985, before Walthers got deeply involved in having things tooled for their own line.

Dennis


Re: Request for info about SFRD Mechanical Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 22, 2009, at 9:33 AM, Rob Erickson wrote:

Group, can anyone tell me what the classes and build dates were for
the following SFRD mechanical reefers, listed in the January 1957
ORER:

SFRD 1000-1004 (Rr-?)

SFRD 2000-2108 (Rr-?)

SFRD 3150-3179 (Rr-?)









I'll add to Charlie Slater's response that all of these cars are well
covered in John Moore's fine book on Santa Fe Mechanical Reefers in
the Santa Fe Historical & Modeling Society's Rolling Stock Reference
Series, which is still in print and can be purchased on the Society's
web site.

Richard Hendrickson


Jay Bee wheels?

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Hi,

I'm looking for contact information for the manufacturer of scale model railroad wheels. I wonder if the company listed below is the one I'm seeking. If not, perhaps someone here can point me in the right direction.

-------------

Jay Bee Machine Works
400 Pike Road
Huntingdon Valley, Pennsylvania 19006

-------------

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa
USA

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