Date   

Re: truck sideframes

Tim O'Connor
 

Also, journal box lids were a common third party item, so
buyers could order their favorite lids of the appropriate
size for anyone's truck. So we have to put on our "lid
filters" when trying to figure out what truck design we
are looking at.

Tim O'Connor

No, though they all look similar. Side frame configuration varied a
bit from one manufacturer to another, and of course journal box size
varied according to whether the trucks were of forty, fifty, or
seventy tons nominal capacity. Also, some of them had double truss
lower chords, with the chords boxed in and shallow ribs on top which
extended into the spring box. In addition, with reference to earlier
posts on this topic, some were Unit trucks with flanges on the inside
of the side frame openings where the brake beams were attached. For
modeling purposes, the best trucks now available are the Tahoe self-
aligning spring-plankless double truss trucks, but Walthers, Tichy,
and others offer trucks which, though less well detailed and
precisely molded, may conform more closely to the sideframe
configuration on the car you're modeling. As always, prototype
photos are invaluable.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Tim O'Connor
 

I know Richard, and I'm sure you have more information than I
do. But Terry writes "... throughout the Forties and Fifties"
in his book -- Now since I have a photo of a newly painted car
in the 1950's with glossy black trucks, I can say, regardless
of whether it applies to 1937 AAR box cars, that Terry was
making a broad generalization that was not always the case.
Also, I can find no mention in the book of painting box car
floor boards with Synthetic Red paint. Again, you may have
more complete documents to that effect. But since photographs
of the underside of brand new cars are relatively rare, and in
fact there are no such photos in Terry's book, I just didn't
want to tell Gene that the floors were painted body color as
I have never seen a photograph that shows it. I have seen a
few photos of other brand new railroad box car floors, and
some were unpainted (the boards that is -- all metal parts
were painted).

UP bought their underframes from vendors like Mt Vernon. I am
sure they were shipped primered or pre-painted. Then the car's
superstructure is added and the car is finished. Then the car,
now complete, is painted. My question being: why exactly would
they then crawl under the car to paint the floorboards? I have
never seen a photo of anyone doing that either. I can easily
be convinced -- all I ask is a photo that shows it!

The color photo on the cover of Terry's book clearly shows a
box car with painted trucks -- and paint on the wheels. What
it looks like is that the red paint was sprayed on the truck
sideframes on the completed car and no care was taken to make
sure that overspray didn't get on the trucks or couplers. It
was a common practice in the STMFC era. Since the backs of
the wheels in the picture appear not to be painted, how could
the floorboards have been painted with a spray gun, while this
car was standing on its trucks, and no paint got on the back
of the wheels?

Tim O'Connor

Tim, 1957 is well beyond the period I know or care about, and Gene's
question was about the UP's various versions of the 1937 AAR standard
design, classes B-50-19 through B-50-27. All of those box cars were
built in the company's own shops (UP didn't begin ordering box cars
from commercial car builders until after WW II, starting with the
B-50-38 class built by Mt. Vernon in 1946). Standard UP shop
practice of that period, as has been well documented by the late
Terry Metcalfe and others, was to paint box cars entirely with oxide
red, including trucks and underframes.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: truck sideframes

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 28, 2009, at 11:58 AM, Brian Chapman wrote:

So, do all AAR self-aligning spring-plankless side frames look the
same, regardless of manufacturer? That is, all manufacturers used
one AAR design drawing and distinctions between manufacturers
relied only on cast-on lettering?





No, though they all look similar. Side frame configuration varied a
bit from one manufacturer to another, and of course journal box size
varied according to whether the trucks were of forty, fifty, or
seventy tons nominal capacity. Also, some of them had double truss
lower chords, with the chords boxed in and shallow ribs on top which
extended into the spring box. In addition, with reference to earlier
posts on this topic, some were Unit trucks with flanges on the inside
of the side frame openings where the brake beams were attached. For
modeling purposes, the best trucks now available are the Tahoe self-
aligning spring-plankless double truss trucks, but Walthers, Tichy,
and others offer trucks which, though less well detailed and
precisely molded, may conform more closely to the sideframe
configuration on the car you're modeling. As always, prototype
photos are invaluable.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "UNIT", "AAR" (Barber-Bettendorf) and ASF A-3 sideframes & truck help...

Brian Chapman <cornbeltroute@...>
 

. . . You need to spend a bit of time studying the truck section in a 1940 or 1943 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. <
For anyone who's interested, these CBCs are available from online used book dealers. A couple of weeks ago I perused offerings, all 1940 and 1943 CBCs were $300 or more, except one 1943 CBC listed at $150. I jumped at it.

It is in fine condition and is chock-full of terrific information (although a History-Poly Sci guy like me has to study the drawings extra carefully to make sense of them). IMHO, worth every one of the 15,000 pennys paid. . . .

The chapter on trucks in Bob Karig's book on Coal Cars, published by the University of Chicago Press, is an indispensable guide to the development of truck technology. <
Richard provided the above information here a few weeks ago, too. I got a copy of the book through an Inter-Library Loan via my local public library. I found that the book's information is so useful, yesterday I bought a new copy of the book at Amazon.com for $50 (shipping included). (I'm anything but a spendthrift, so I wouldn't have bought these books if I didn't judge them to be of great value, fwiw.)

Richard, this is a perfect chance for me to thank you for the information you provided here on the list. My truck studies have begun, and even though there's a way to go before I'll have a good, solid, basic understanding, I'm on my way.

. . . knowing that a car had Unit truck side frames tells you nothing about how those side frames were configured or who made
them. . . . AAR trucks . . . were made by every truck manufacturer in North America, and in the absence of more information you have to look at photos. . . . I have 22 photos of the NH '37 AAR box cars in question, and in all of them the trucks are AAR self-aligning spring-plankless, though doubtless the side frames came from a number of different manufacturers. <

So, do all AAR self-aligning spring-plankless side frames look the same, regardless of manufacturer? That is, all manufacturers used one AAR design drawing and distinctions between manufacturers relied only on cast-on lettering?

Thanks much,

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Pics for the '20's & '40's

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Bill - Depending on where you live you may be near a library that carries many of the books listed. The NMRA library in Chattanooga would certainly have most of them as would railroad museum libraries. When I'm launching a new project I routinely spend a few hours in Chattanooga checking photos and data. You can also get them from your own library through interlibrary loan. For some idea of the types of cars you may need, go to my web site www.westerfield.biz . In each category you can have the program select cars by decade. Funaro and Camerlingo and Speedwich also have sites depicting cars from these decades. - Al Westerfield


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Sure Tony. As soon as you send me a photo of a painted floor and underframe for every class of UP box car from 1936 to 1960, including repainted cars, I'll be happy to oblige... Seems to me the burden of proof is yours. A single contradiction is all it takes.
Better cut back on the caffeine, Tim. I was interested to see whatever photo it was. But if you see such a query as a challenge to your credibility, that speaks for itself.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


FS: AAR Pamphlet MD-4 "Rules Governing the Loading of Pipe on Open Top Cars"

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

FOR SALE: AAR Pamphlet MD-4 "Rules Governing the Loading of Pipe on Open
Top Cars" effective June 15, 1951



This original pamphlet has 106 pages of instructions with numerous detailed
diagrams showing the acceptable ways to load and secure pipe in flat cars
and gondolas including arrangement, overhang, strapping, and chocking of
pipe.



A fantastic piece of history which is in good shape with no tears with only
one mark that I have found. On the cover written in pencil is "Car
Inspector Baker" who must have been the original owner of this booklet.



I have the full set of these and got this one in a two book deal to fill out
my set. Yours for $30 plus actual cost of USPS Priority Mail or Media Mail,
your choice.



Please contact me off-list at:



allencain@tampabay.rr.com



Thanks,



Allen Cain


Re: FRISCO MODELER

jerryglow2
 

So join it. What's it going to cost you other than a little time to apply?

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "joel norman" <mec-bml@...> wrote:

GENTLEMAN:Can a Frisco Modeler PLEASE e mail me off list,I have a question about the Kansas City,Osceola & Southern "the High Line''seems you have to be a member of the SIG to ask a question....
Hope someone can help
Thanks
Joel Norman


Re: "UNIT", "AAR" (Barber-Bettendorf) and ASF A-3 sideframes & truck help...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 28, 2009, at 7:16 AM, Peter Ness wrote:

I'm wrapping up an article on 40' Steel Box Cars on the New Haven
Railroad for the Associations' quarterly magazine and I've got my eyes
crossed and information muddled on subject sideframes and could use
some
help.

The New Haven Equipment sketches don't help much, as for example, for
one series of boxcar the "Truck" specification states; "5 1/2" x 10"
journals- cast steel double truss side frames - see table."

When one consults the table, under a column headed "Manufacturer" one
finds "UNIT Truck" and AAR Truck". The muddling begins (to me, anyway)

I know the Unit sideframe was a specific design and specific component
of a truck, but I am not aware of a "UNIT Truck Company" that ever
existed as a manufacturer, same as I am not aware of an "AAR Truck
Company" as a manufacturer.

I also know that in 1941-4 when the New Haven accepted delivery of the
box car series under investigation, (1937 AAR design) an "AAR Truck"
most likely meant a Barber-Bettendorf or Bettendorf style. A "Unit"
sideframe has been defined to me as a sideframe with an inner
(inside of
sideframe) web extending from each of the vertical central frame
members
outward to the upwardly-diagonal portion of the sideframe and also
having no hangers for the brake beams. This source is a great guy and
works at a railroad museum and has even given me a drawing he prepared
of a "UNIT" sideframe.

Now, more muddling. The UNIT sideframe drawing looks to me eactly like
the sideframe of an ASF A-3 Ride Control truck.

So, anyone who can provide any of the following information will
earn my
eternal gratitude and also be responsible for me re-gaining a
modicum of
sanity on the subject of trucks and sideframes.

Questions:
Can someone sort me out on UNIT, ASF A-3 and "AAR" trucks and/or
sideframes?

How much of "what I know" above is accurate, and if not, can you
straighten me out on the inaccuracies?

Was a UNIT sideframe some type of predecessor to the ASF A-3 Ride
Control? Are they similar in appearance and design?

Does anyone know of an on-line source for photos/drawings/images of
what
was reffered to as an "AAR Truck"? I have already looked through both
"Photos" and "Files" sections on STMFC, but nothing jumped out at me.

















































Peter, what you've gleaned from the New Haven car diagrams is more
confusing than helpful, and you're not going to find the information
you want on line. You need to spend a bit of time studying the
truck section in a 1940 or 1943 Car Builders' Cyclopedia. Getting
access to one will depend on where you live; many large engineering
libraries, as well as railroad historical museums, have them and it's
possible to get them via inter-library loan (consult your local
reference librarian). Unit truck sideframes were made under license
from the Unit Truck Corporation of New York, and their distinctive
feature (invisible on a model) is that the brake beam attachment
points were integral with the side frames. Their ad in the CBCycs
proclaimed "design applicable to that of any truck now being
manufactured," so knowing that a car had Unit truck side frames tells
you nothing about how those side frames were configured or who made
them. For what it's worth, the illustration in Unit's ad shows the
sideframe for an AAR self-aligning double truss truck. Unit brake
beam attachments could, of course, be applied to an ASF A-3 truck,
after those were introduced ca. 1944, but otherwise there was no
connection between the ASF A-3 design and the Unit truck feature, and
in any case none of the NH cars covered in your article were
delivered with ASF A-3s.

AAR trucks - i.e., trucks made to the general design approved by the
Association of American Railroads with integrally cast journal boxes
and certain standard dimensions - were made by every truck
manufacturer in North America, and in the absence of more information
you have to look at photos. As it happens, I have 22 photos of the
NH '37 AAR box cars in question, and in all of them the trucks are
AAR self-aligning spring-plankless, though doubtless the side frames
came from a number of different manufacturers. So for your specific
purpose, the situation isn't nearly as complicated as it may have
appeared.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "UNIT", "AAR" (Barber-Bettendorf) and ASF A-3 sideframes & truck help...

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 28, 2009, at 9:16 AM, Peter Ness wrote:

I'm wrapping up an article on 40' Steel Box Cars on the New Haven
Railroad for the Associations' quarterly magazine and I've got my eyes
crossed and information muddled on subject sideframes and could use
some
help.
<SNIP>

Peter,
I can help a little using data from two Pullman-Standard bills of
materials specifications for NH box cars built in 1944 and 1945.

Lot 5780A for series 32500-32999 were 1937 AAR box cars with 4-5
Dreadnaught Ends that came with AAR Double Truss trucks (first 200 cars
from Symington-Gould, last 300 from PSF). These equate to the 50-ton
trucks made by Tahoe Model Works. Lot 5809 for series 33000-33499 built
11-45 were 10'-0" IH postwar AAR box cars having 3-4 Improved
Dreadnaught Ends. The trucks for the first 400 cars were
Symington-Gould Double Truss AAR, and the last 100 cars received ASF
A-3 Ride Control. Kato makes an excellent A-3 Ride Control 50-ton
truck. All of these cars had one-wear steel wheels.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Boxcar color inquiry

Michael McAnally
 

Ed and the entire group:
I would like to thank all of you for your inputs on my inquiry. I have the starting points I need to search out the information that I seek.
To Ed especially, I do have access to quite a bit of your research, thanks to Railmodel Journal magazine-
Thank you all again,
Michael McAnally

--- On Sun, 6/28/09, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net> wrote:


From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Boxcar color inquiry
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 9:07 AM









On Jun 27, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Michael McAnally wrote:

Good day group:
I am relatively new to the group, and have read with much interest
all posts and replies. I have learned quite a bit just from monitoring
the groups' emails. I now have a question:
I have finished detailing some USRA DS boxcars, c.1930's, for the
MoPac, RI, and Frisco, and am at the painting stage. I know that the
basic color is freight car / boxcar red, but are there specific shades
one would recommend? Any help or input is greatly appreciated.
Keep up the great work and, and thank you for allowing me to be a
member of the group
Michael B. McAnally
Michael,
The following information is based on a limited sample of actual paint
samples that are available for viewing in AC&F bills of materials for
cars built from 1931 through 1952. These documents are at the St. Louis
Mercantile Library.

As a general rule, freight cars built from 1931 to about 1937 received
paint that was darker and more brown than for cars built during the
1940s to early 1950s. Despite using the same name "Mineral Brown," an
ATSF paint sample for Bx-13 box cars built 4-31 (135350-135649) is much
darker and more brown than ATSF freight cars built in the mid-1940s,
which were more red-brown in appearance. In addition, paints applied to
freight cars during the 1930s were quite flat, whereas during the 1940s
there was typically a sheen to the paint.

During the 1930s MP and RI used colors that were very much like the
1931 sample of ATSF Mineral Brown. Around 1940 is when I start to
notice more red in the paint samples and more sheen to the paint.

Regarding Frisco, I don't have access to any Frisco paint samples until
1951. The 1951 sample is an oxide shade, but during the 1930s I don't
have any paint samples from which to base a color. From a Pullman bill
of materials for lot 5472 (SL-SF 161500--162499 built in 1930), the
paint was called Wardway #116. No telling what shade of color this was,
as the Pullman bills of materials do not provide any paint samples.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Pics for the '20's & '40's

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 28, 2009, at 6:00 AM, Hman56@aol.com wrote:
can anyone point me to some pictures on railcars to help with my
modeling
of the 1920-1946?



Bill, this isn't exactly asking us to tell you everything we know
about 20th century freight cars, but it comes close.

First, the North American freight car fleet changed radically between
1920 and 1946. Second, what railroad or railroads do you model?
There are a number of excellent books containing many photos of
freight cars from that general era which are either currently in
print or can be found on the second-hand market (e.g. Culotta &
Kline's "The Postwar Freight Car Fleet" and my own "Focus on Freight
Cars Vol. 1") but you need to be a lot more specific about your needs
and interests.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Boxcar color inquiry

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jun 27, 2009, at 3:11 PM, Michael McAnally wrote:

Good day group:
I am relatively new to the group, and have read with much interest
all posts and replies. I have learned quite a bit just from monitoring
the groups' emails. I now have a question:
I have finished detailing some USRA DS boxcars, c.1930's, for the
MoPac, RI, and Frisco, and am at the painting stage. I know that the
basic color is freight car / boxcar red, but are there specific shades
one would recommend? Any help or input is greatly appreciated.
Keep up the great work and, and thank you for allowing me to be a
member of the group
Michael B. McAnally
Michael,
The following information is based on a limited sample of actual paint
samples that are available for viewing in AC&F bills of materials for
cars built from 1931 through 1952. These documents are at the St. Louis
Mercantile Library.

As a general rule, freight cars built from 1931 to about 1937 received
paint that was darker and more brown than for cars built during the
1940s to early 1950s. Despite using the same name "Mineral Brown," an
ATSF paint sample for Bx-13 box cars built 4-31 (135350-135649) is much
darker and more brown than ATSF freight cars built in the mid-1940s,
which were more red-brown in appearance. In addition, paints applied to
freight cars during the 1930s were quite flat, whereas during the 1940s
there was typically a sheen to the paint.

During the 1930s MP and RI used colors that were very much like the
1931 sample of ATSF Mineral Brown. Around 1940 is when I start to
notice more red in the paint samples and more sheen to the paint.

Regarding Frisco, I don't have access to any Frisco paint samples until
1951. The 1951 sample is an oxide shade, but during the 1930s I don't
have any paint samples from which to base a color. From a Pullman bill
of materials for lot 5472 (SL-SF 161500--162499 built in 1930), the
paint was called Wardway #116. No telling what shade of color this was,
as the Pullman bills of materials do not provide any paint samples.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 27, 2009, at 8:46 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Contrary to Tim's speculation, the UP painted box car underframes and
floors, as well as trucks and brake equipment, the same oxide red as
the rest of the car, both on new cars and on repaints.
Richard Hendrickson
Richard

ahem. photo evidence exists to the contrary. unless of course you are
referring strictly to the 1937 cars. like gene, i don't have any
photos
of freshly (re)painted 1937 cars. i sent him a shot of a brand new car
with glossy black trucks, built in 1957.












Tim, 1957 is well beyond the period I know or care about, and Gene's
question was about the UP's various versions of the 1937 AAR standard
design, classes B-50-19 through B-50-27. All of those box cars were
built in the company's own shops (UP didn't begin ordering box cars
from commercial car builders until after WW II, starting with the
B-50-38 class built by Mt. Vernon in 1946). Standard UP shop
practice of that period, as has been well documented by the late
Terry Metcalfe and others, was to paint box cars entirely with oxide
red, including trucks and underframes.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Pics for the '20's & '40's

Bruce Smith
 

On Sun, June 28, 2009 8:00 am, Bill Hodkinson wrote:
can anyone point me to some pictures on railcars to help with my modeling
of the 1920-1946?
Bill, that's a pretty broad range of time, railroads and cars! Over that
time frame the nature of freight cars changed significantly. For example,
if its is 1925, the second most common boxcar from 1930 on doesn't even
exist! It might also help us if you were more specific about your needs.
Are you interested in specific locations? Specific cars? Are you trying
to model 1946 and are looking for the cars that were present then?

TPhotos of 1920-1946 aren't as easy to come by as later eras, but there
are still plenty out there.

Some good references to start with are:

The Postwar Freight Car Fleet, by Kline and Culotta. This book is mostly
a collection of photos from circa 1947 in Harrisburg PA, but most of the
cars pictured are from earlier years and there are also a few photos from
other locations.

Focus on Freight Cars, Richard Hendrickson, Volume 1 Single Sheathed Box
and Automobile Cars (available from Speedwitch)

Steam Era Freight Cars Reference Manual, Ted Culotta, Vol 1 Single
Sheathed Box and Auto Cars, Vol 2, Tank Cars, both available from
Speedwitch.

For a specific car, look into Ted Culotta's book on the 1932 ARA boxcar,
available from Speedwitch.

If you're interested in reefers then two "must have" books are:

Pacific Fruit Express, by Thompson, Church and Jones

Santa Fe Railway Rolling Stock Reference Series, Volume 2 Refrigerator
Cars, Ice Bunker Cars 1884-1979 by Jordan, Hendrickson, Moore and Hale.

There are of course, many other more railroad specific volumes that can
help as well. For example, if you are interested in modeling PRR cars
(and who isn't? <G>) resources such as the Keystone (magazine) and
Keystone Modeler (ezine) frequently have prototype photos. On line, you
can look through both the Steam Era Freight Cars site at:
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/
and the Fallen Flags site (although shots from the era you ask for a rare).

Finally, venders such as Bob's Photos have TONS of photos, so have fun
shopping (and bring lots of cash!) - you'll find most of the "usual
suspects" from this list huddled over the stacks of photos at places like
the Naperville and Cocoa Beach meets.

Hope that helps,
Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Boxcar color inquiry

Michael McAnally
 

Pierre:
Thank you for pointing me in the right direction, and sending me a starting point. I'll see if  I can locate the cyclopedia and any other available information.
Thank you again,
Michael McAnally

--- On Sun, 6/28/09, pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@sympatico.ca> wrote:


From: pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@sympatico.ca>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Boxcar color inquiry
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, June 28, 2009, 7:29 AM








Michael,
A good place to start to get the answers you're looking for is Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #3. In that issue is a great article on boxcar painting which includes an excellent paint chart for many US roads. The issue is out of print, but with luck you might find one.

As has been pointed out many times on this list after some time in service the elements will alter the perceived colour of cars a great deal. I do find though that using the suggested colours in the chart is a good place to start and then weather to taste.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Michael McAnally" <macbmac1@.. .> wrote:

Good day group:
I am relatively new to the group, and have read with much interest all posts and replies. I have learned quite a bit just from monitoring the groups' emails. I now have a question:
I have finished detailing some USRA DS boxcars, c.1930's, for the MoPac, RI, and Frisco, and am at the painting stage. I know that the basic color is freight car / boxcar red, but are there specific shades one would recommend? Any help or input is greatly appreciated.
Keep up the great work and, and thank you for allowing me to be a member of the group
Michael B. McAnally


















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Sure Tony. As soon as you send me a photo of a painted floor
and underframe for every class of UP box car from 1936 to 1960,
including repainted cars, I'll be happy to oblige... Seems to
me the burden of proof is yours. A single contradiction is all
it takes.

Tim

Tim O'Connor wrote:
ahem. photo evidence exists to the contrary . . .
Tim, could you direct us to the photo(s) of unpainted floors (or
underframes)? I'd be interested.

Tony Thompson


Re: Boxcar color inquiry

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Michael,
A good place to start to get the answers you're looking for is Railway Prototype Cyclopedia #3. In that issue is a great article on boxcar painting which includes an excellent paint chart for many US roads. The issue is out of print, but with luck you might find one.

As has been pointed out many times on this list after some time in service the elements will alter the perceived colour of cars a great deal. I do find though that using the suggested colours in the chart is a good place to start and then weather to taste.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Michael McAnally" <macbmac1@...> wrote:

Good day group:
I am relatively new to the group, and have read with much interest all posts and replies. I have learned quite a bit just from monitoring the groups' emails. I now have a question:
I have finished detailing some USRA DS boxcars, c.1930's, for the MoPac, RI, and Frisco, and am at the painting stage. I know that the basic color is freight car / boxcar red, but are there specific shades one would recommend? Any help or input is greatly appreciated.
Keep up the great work and, and thank you for allowing me to be a member of the group
Michael B. McAnally


"UNIT", "AAR" (Barber-Bettendorf) and ASF A-3 sideframes & truck help...

Peter Ness
 

I'm wrapping up an article on 40' Steel Box Cars on the New Haven
Railroad for the Associations' quarterly magazine and I've got my eyes
crossed and information muddled on subject sideframes and could use some
help.

The New Haven Equipment sketches don't help much, as for example, for
one series of boxcar the "Truck" specification states; "5 1/2" x 10"
journals- cast steel double truss side frames - see table."

When one consults the table, under a column headed "Manufacturer" one
finds "UNIT Truck" and AAR Truck". The muddling begins (to me, anyway)

I know the Unit sideframe was a specific design and specific component
of a truck, but I am not aware of a "UNIT Truck Company" that ever
existed as a manufacturer, same as I am not aware of an "AAR Truck
Company" as a manufacturer.

I also know that in 1941-4 when the New Haven accepted delivery of the
box car series under investigation, (1937 AAR design) an "AAR Truck"
most likely meant a Barber-Bettendorf or Bettendorf style. A "Unit"
sideframe has been defined to me as a sideframe with an inner (inside of
sideframe) web extending from each of the vertical central frame members
outward to the upwardly-diagonal portion of the sideframe and also
having no hangers for the brake beams. This source is a great guy and
works at a railroad museum and has even given me a drawing he prepared
of a "UNIT" sideframe.

Now, more muddling. The UNIT sideframe drawing looks to me eactly like
the sideframe of an ASF A-3 Ride Control truck.

So, anyone who can provide any of the following information will earn my
eternal gratitude and also be responsible for me re-gaining a modicum of
sanity on the subject of trucks and sideframes.

Questions:
Can someone sort me out on UNIT, ASF A-3 and "AAR" trucks and/or
sideframes?

How much of "what I know" above is accurate, and if not, can you
straighten me out on the inaccuracies?

Was a UNIT sideframe some type of predecessor to the ASF A-3 Ride
Control? Are they similar in appearance and design?

Does anyone know of an on-line source for photos/drawings/images of what
was reffered to as an "AAR Truck"? I have already looked through both
"Photos" and "Files" sections on STMFC, but nothing jumped out at me.

BONUS: this has been discussed before on STMFC, but my memory is clouded
at this time; the 1937 AAR design boxcar was equipped with 50-ton
trucks...can anyone tell me why the New Haven Railroad Summaries of
Equipment always listed these cars at 120,000 pound (60-ton) capacity?

My current resources are a photo I took of an ASF A-3 Ride Control truck
on a New Haven boxcar and the drawing prepared by my friend that is
described as a "UNIT" sideframe. As I'm sure many know, many photos of
freight cars are low definition and contrast in the truck area so that
not even the entire sideframe is clear. I have many photos and images
of NH boxcars, so perhaps if I can understand what exactly I need to
look for in a "UNIT" and "AAR" truck I can turn up an image or photo
from my own collection

I am not necessarily looking for photos/images/drawings to include in my
article (although if they are clearer than my own that would be nice...)
so much as looking for graphics to help me personally understand and
describe the differences in the text of the article.

Unless there are many group members who find this a worthwhile topic,
please contact me off group of you can help with this topic.

Thanks in advance, and have a great Sunday,
Peter

prness@roadrunner.com <mailto:prness@roadrunner.com>


Re: Cleanout or washout track for reefers a Question

water.kresse@...
 

I've seen pix of FGE cars going thru a washer at Alexandria.



Who would be responsible for cleaning out cars (reefers and ventilated boxes) going back south from Chicago.  Gene Huddleston mentioned in the late-40s SAL and other RR watermelon ventilated boxes that were being returned from Chicago, etc. would smell really bad by the time they made it down to Russell, KY, in the late-summer.



Al

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2009 5:52:31 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Cleanout or washout track for reefers a Question

Neville Rossiter wrote:
I have that book (2nd edition) and found the photos under Car  
Cleaning in the index I was originally looking for the word Cleaning  
or Car washing in the index, give me a break I'm an Aussie. Grin.
Page 428 has an interesting photo.
       The same area as the p. 428 photo is shown in an aerial view on  
p. 261. PFE generally combined light repairs with cleaning, as I  
mentioned, so the PFE views in Chapter 11 all reflect that.
        I can't speak for other operators of reefers, but in the PFE  
case, THEY were responsible for providing clean cars to shippers. They  
accomplished that in their own facilities, not in contractors or  
railroad facilities. For most modeling situations, I would advise that  
the car owner or lessor would have made arrangements for car cleaning,

Tony Thompson             Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705         www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




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