Date   

UTLX Frameless Tank Car

S hed <shed999@...>
 

I just found that Precision Scale Co offers a plastic UTLX Frameless Tank Car as a plastic kit for $22.50.



What are you guys' impression of this kit and what era does this car represent? I'm not familiar with tank car types and histories so I don't know how accurate this car is.



The company's website is http://www.precisionscaleco.com/



Click "Kits" and then select "HO Passenger/Freight" in the drop down menu to see the car.



- Steve H., Everett, WA

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ADMIN: Lodestar Auctions

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I have received a question regarding the credibility of Lodestar Auctions by a member of the STMFC. If you have had any negative experiences with this organization please let me know...OFF GROUP.

This question in no way insinuates that there IS a problem with Lodestar Auctions. A member is considering perchasing from Lodestar and has no experience with them.

Thanks.

Mike Brock: STMFC-owner@yahoogroups.com
STMFC Owner


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Sheesh, Tony, answering your questions is getting to be a full time job :-)
Yeah--but note that many of them are aimed at clarifying your remarks. :-)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

I wrote:
To a cement plant? I've never heard of gypsum as a raw material for cement. Enlighten me, Tim.
Gypsum is not a raw material for cement clinker (the stuff you run through the kiln), but is in fact used as an additive in the final cement product. It is there to help control setting time. I was obviously thinking too narrowly. Could those SP 3-bay PS-2s have been carrying gypsum? Maybe. The density of gypsum is around 2/3 of what cement typically is.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Sheesh, Tony, answering your questions is getting to be a full time
job :-) Several million tons of gypsum is used annually as a retarder
in cement. (Source: the now defunct US Bureau of Mines)

Wikipedia: Gypsum -- A component of Portland cement used to prevent
flash setting of concrete.

So no, it is not a "raw material" -- but it's a heavily used additive.

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, couldn't those be inbound loads of gypsum or other raw material?
To a cement plant? I've never heard of gypsum as a raw
material for cement. Enlighten me, Tim.

Tony Thompson


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 26, 2009, at 2:02 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, couldn't those be inbound loads of gypsum or other raw material?
To a cement plant? I've never heard of gypsum as a raw
material for cement. Enlighten me, Tim.
Tony,

How about Hydrocal? <VBG> Its a "gypsum cement".

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, couldn't those be inbound loads of gypsum or other raw material?
To a cement plant? I've never heard of gypsum as a raw material for cement. Enlighten me, Tim.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Color of the PRR X31 Boxcar at Cajon Pass

Jim Lancaster
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

On Jun 25, 2009, at 2:38 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

Does any one wish to comments about the color of the PRR X31 boxcar
also captured in this sequence of photos from Cajon Pass.

http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/cp/cajon_64.html
<http://www.geocities.com/jim_lancaster.geo/cp/cajon_64.html>
Bob,

PRR's FCC (freight car color) varied depending on the era. The car
shown is in the shadow keystone scheme, which would have been a more
red-brown, less orange color than a car in the ball/circle keystone
scheme. In addition, the car shown has significant weathering of the
body paint, which appears to be an all-over sooty brown, also
darkening the apparent color of the paint. So to sum it up, it looks
like a nicely weathered X31A, the color seems to be accurately
captured (not shifted), but it should not be misconstrued to
represent anything like the original color.

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
I went to Cajon Pass that day in 1964 to photograph passenger trains. I'm glad the freight cars are of interest as well.

Jim Lancaster


Three bay PS2 covered hoppers/funny story

ed_mines
 

In the '70s I had an interview at a factory that made dog food. We went into a shed containing a classic NKP 3 bay - PS2 covered hopper which was used to transport cereal used in the dog food.

In the same shed there was a block of frozen animal parts - ears, lips ...... A pool of grey liquid came from the block which was surrounded by flies. Every so often one of the flies got zapped.

The man showing me around said "it don't look too pretty". It didn't smell too pretty either. I didn't eat lunch that day and I haven't missed too many meals.


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

You may be right -- I was probably thinking of the 3215/3219
cars, many of which were delivered as 90-100 tons cars.

At 6/26/2009 02:17 PM Friday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Garth, almost all of the cars that remained in service received 100
ton trucks and this allowed them to be used for higher density
cargos . . .
When, Tim? As late as 1970, all these cars were still listed
in the ORER as 70-ton capacity, and last time I checked, thats a bit
past the STMFC era.

Tony Thompson


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, couldn't those be inbound loads of gypsum or other
raw material?

Tim

Garth G. Groff wrote:
Didn't the SP use some of their 47' PS-2s in cement service? So if
they were loaded light, did they carry any special stenciling?
Yes, they did, and there's a photo in my Vol. 5 of such service
in 1956, page 133. You can note in the photo that there is cement
staining only on the hatches for the end compartments. I have not seen
any special stenciling, however. I surmise that this inefficient use
was a stopgap--SP received two more big classes of 2-bay PS-2s shortly
afterward.

Tony Thompson


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Gene Deimling <losgatos48@...>
 

Tim
Thanks for the information. It seems that all of my UP boxcar pictures are in B&W.

Gene Deimling
Los Gatos, CA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Gene

Trucks were body color on oxide red cars. I've seen brake parts
(reservoir, AB valve) painted oxide red too, but I don't know if
the underframe was painted or just primered. Terry Metcalfe says
that UP didn't paint the interior of gondolas or hoppers so I'm
not sure they'd paint the underframe on box cars.

Tim O'Connor


What color did the UP use on their 1937 AAR Boxcar underframes and trucks painted? Â

Thanks,
Gene Deimling
Los Gatos, CA


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Garth, almost all of the cars that remained in service received 100 ton trucks and this allowed them to be used for higher density cargos . . .
When, Tim? As late as 1970, all these cars were still listed in the ORER as 70-ton capacity, and last time I checked, thats a bit past the STMFC era.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth G. Groff wrote:
Didn't the SP use some of their 47' PS-2s in cement service? So if they were loaded light, did they carry any special stenciling?
Yes, they did, and there's a photo in my Vol. 5 of such service in 1956, page 133. You can note in the photo that there is cement staining only on the hatches for the end compartments. I have not seen any special stenciling, however. I surmise that this inefficient use was a stopgap--SP received two more big classes of 2-bay PS-2s shortly afterward.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Garth, almost all of the cars that remained in service received
100 ton trucks and this allowed them to be used for higher density
cargos -- in fact, 2893 is almost the optimal size for cement. But
I don't think they were used in the STMFC era for cement. Trona,
soda ash, potash and diatomaceous earth, yes -- but not cement. SP
bought lots of 2 bay 70 ton cars for that.

Tim

Tony,
Didn't the SP use some of their 47' PS-2s in cement service? So if they
were loaded light, did they carry any special stenciling?
Kind regards,
Garth G. Groff


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony Thompson wrote

As with all covered hoppers, Schuyler, it could be anything in
the correct density range and type. For example, the 70-ton PS-2
with 3 bays could not carry cement, as it's too dense for a fully
loaded car (though there are known examples of these cars being
used for cement service by only loading the two outer bays). Type?
The cargo would also have to be of a size range to readily exit
through the discharge hatches, and of a character to flow freely.
[nitpick: hatches for loading; outlets/gates for unloading]

Somewhat true, but gravity cars were (and still are) used to
move "fluidizable" cargo like flour and corn starch and talc
that is easier to unload with air assistance. That why they have
those car shaker brackets on them -- rapid mechanical shaking can
do the job. Many railroads opted for gravity-pneumatic outlets
later on so covered hoppers were more versatile. Absolute optimal
(full) loading is a more recent phenomenon; back in the 1950's
there was less financial incentive to maximize the tare weight.

Consider this table of 30-65lbs/cubic foot cargos that I'm pretty
sure were carried in PS2893/3215/3219's. (The larger cars are about
the same height & length, primarily differing in width.)

density lbs/cft
---------------
alumina, fine 35
aluminum shot 52
asphalt, crushed 45
barley 37-48
bentonite, crude 40
bentonite, fine 50
borax 60
boric acid 50
carbon black, pelletized 40
cinders 40
corn 45
dolomite, pulverized 45
flour 42
fly ash 45
grain sorghums 42
lime 50
malt 30
oat flour 35
oats 30
phosphate rock, pulverized 60
polyethylene pellets 35
rice 35
rye 44
salt, coarse 55
semolina 40
soda ash 40
soybean meal 40
soybeans 48
starch 40
sugar, refined 50
sulfur 65
wheat 48

I seem to recall that Santa Fe had some mineral cargos (perhaps
vermiculite/pearlite?) that also was transported in such cars.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tony,

Didn't the SP use some of their 47' PS-2s in cement service? So if they were loaded light, did they carry any special stenciling?

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

In the most broad sense, what would these cars be found carrying?
As with all covered hoppers, Schuyler, it could be anything in the correct density range and type. For example, the 70-ton PS-2 with 3 bays could not carry cement, as it's too dense for a fully loaded car (though there are known examples of these cars being used for cement service by only loading the two outer bays). Type? The cargo would also have to be of a size range to readily exit through the discharge hatches, and of a character to flow freely. (Airslides were developed to handle the types of cargo which would NOT flow freely by simply opening the outlets.)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Color of the PRR X31 Boxcar at Cajon Pass

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
PRR's FCC (freight car color) varied depending on the era. The car shown is in the shadow keystone scheme, which would have been a more red-brown, less orange color than a car in the ball/circle keystone scheme. In addition, the car shown has significant weathering of the body paint, which appears to be an all-over sooty brown, also
darkening the apparent color of the paint. So to sum it up, it looks like a nicely weathered X31A, the color seems to be accurately captured (not shifted), but it should not be misconstrued to represent anything like the original color.
Extremely sensible and complete answer. Thanks, Bruce.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: UP 1937 AAR Boxcar Questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Gene

Trucks were body color on oxide red cars. I've seen brake parts
(reservoir, AB valve) painted oxide red too, but I don't know if
the underframe was painted or just primered. Terry Metcalfe says
that UP didn't paint the interior of gondolas or hoppers so I'm
not sure they'd paint the underframe on box cars.

Tim O'Connor

What color did the UP use on their 1937 AAR Boxcar underframes and trucks� painted?� �

Thanks,
Gene Deimling
Los Gatos, CA


Re: Three bay PS2 covered hoppers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
In the most broad sense, what would these cars be found carrying?
As with all covered hoppers, Schuyler, it could be anything in the correct density range and type. For example, the 70-ton PS-2 with 3 bays could not carry cement, as it's too dense for a fully loaded car (though there are known examples of these cars being used for cement service by only loading the two outer bays). Type? The cargo would also have to be of a size range to readily exit through the discharge hatches, and of a character to flow freely. (Airslides were developed to handle the types of cargo which would NOT flow freely by simply opening the outlets.)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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