Date   

Re: accurate Barber trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 26, 2009, at 6:36 PM, aslt28 wrote:

My research suggests the following:

At the end of 1933 or early 1934, the Standard Car Truck Company
introduced the Stabilized Freight Car Truck. The Type S-1 could be
had with lateral motion device (later the Type S-1-L) or without
lateral motion device. It's not clear to me that the Type S-1 without
lateral motion device was marketed by the company, because it
introduced its Type S-2 just a few years later.

In about 1938, SCT introduced its Stabilized Freight Car Truck, Type
S-2, which did not have the capability of having a lateral motion
device. The Type S-2 came in two forms, with spring plank and spring
plankless. The spring plankless form required a specially designed
bolster and columns to provide the self-aligning features of the
sprink plankless design.

The SCT ad in 1940 states, "...Type S-2, can be used with or without
spring plank..." That language is unchanged in its ads from 1940
through 1961. There is no mention of the S-2A in the text of its ads.

It appears to me that between 1946 and 1949, SCT modified the spacing
of the springs of the spring plankless version of its Type S-2.
Coincident with that change, it began referring to the spring
plankless version of its S-2 truck as the S-2A. Thus, the Type S-2
could be had with spring plank (Type S-2) or without (Type S-2A).
This is consistent with the drawings shown opposite the SCT text in
the SCT ads for the years 1949 through 1961.





























An excellent summary, Bob. Now that I've cleared up some of my own
confusion, I agree on all points.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Potato shipping

Jerry <jrs060@...>
 

Actually no Mike, the bunker heaters were either charcoal fueled, the older ones
from the 1940s, or alcohol fueled, the newer ones from the 1950s. They could
be placed in the ice bunkers, lowered into them using a rope, and pulled up and
out for fueling. Or if placed inside the car, they were usualy nailed to the floor,
or slung from a bracket that was nailed to the roof inside. I remember a car of
Miller beer during the winter that the heater had somehow managed to tip over
on the floor and set the car on fire!

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

Woodstock, Illinois



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...> wrote:



In frozen climates the spuds were also shipping in reefers, but heater pots were placed
in the ice bunkers to keep the lading from freezing. They were oil-burning devices with
big fuel tanks.

I've also seen correspondence about bagged potatoes arriving at our State Asylum at
Greystone in standard boxcars during mild weather.

....Mike




In a message dated 01/26/09 19:02:55 Eastern Standard Time, rhendrickson@... writes:
Michael, the Santa Fe shipped potatoes in the 1950s in SFRD reefers
with no ice in the bunkers and the hatch covers latched open in the
ventilator position. At least, that's how the potato crop from the
Central Valley of California was shipped, and I assume it would have
been the same elsewhere.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Western Wheeled Scraper Co side dump...

Jack Burgess
 

John LaRue just politely reminded me that the company is Western Wheeled
SCRAPER Co. not Western Wheeled SCRAPPER Co. I can only guess that I was
confusing the scrapper of the YV who got the name of the manufacturer of the
side dump wrong with the company that made it. At first, I wondered how I
was able to Google it but then I remembered that I only used the words
"western wheeled" and not the complete name...

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Accurate ASF A-3 trucks in HO

Tim O'Connor
 

Easy... Intermountain makes an ASF truck, but it's not an A-3.

Kato, Kadee and Athearn make the A-3.

I bought a mess of IM ASF truck sprues for 75 cents each a
while ago. You can buy them direct from IM.

Since the ASF A-3 truck has come up in recent discussions, and I
believe that Brianna and I need a couple of sets of plain bearing ASF
A-3 trucks for our HO Speedwitch New Haven flat cars, which is better/
more accurate/more appropriate for these cars, the IM ASF A-3 or the
Kato ASF A-3? And where might one purchase said trucks, given that
Walthers is fresh out (well, at least for the IM trucks, they've been
out for over a year)?

Regards
Bruce


Re: Potato shipping

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Michael, the Santa Fe shipped potatoes in the 1950s in SFRD reefers with no ice in the bunkers and the hatch covers latched open in the ventilator position. At least, that's how the potato crop from the Central Valley of California was shipped, and I assume it would have been the same elsewhere.
This assumption requires comparable weather during shipping. See the table on page 345 in the PFE book for desired shipping temperatures for many crops, including potatoes.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: accurate Barber trucks

aslt28 <karig@...>
 

My research suggests the following:

At the end of 1933 or early 1934, the Standard Car Truck Company
introduced the Stabilized Freight Car Truck. The Type S-1 could be
had with lateral motion device (later the Type S-1-L) or without
lateral motion device. It's not clear to me that the Type S-1 without
lateral motion device was marketed by the company, because it
introduced its Type S-2 just a few years later.

In about 1938, SCT introduced its Stabilized Freight Car Truck, Type
S-2, which did not have the capability of having a lateral motion
device. The Type S-2 came in two forms, with spring plank and spring
plankless. The spring plankless form required a specially designed
bolster and columns to provide the self-aligning features of the
sprink plankless design.

The SCT ad in 1940 states, "...Type S-2, can be used with or without
spring plank..." That language is unchanged in its ads from 1940
through 1961. There is no mention of the S-2A in the text of its ads.

It appears to me that between 1946 and 1949, SCT modified the spacing
of the springs of the spring plankless version of its Type S-2.
Coincident with that change, it began referring to the spring
plankless version of its S-2 truck as the S-2A. Thus, the Type S-2
could be had with spring plank (Type S-2) or without (Type S-2A).
This is consistent with the drawings shown opposite the SCT text in
the SCT ads for the years 1949 through 1961.

Regardless of this change, I agree that the difference is virtually
indiscerable in HO scale.

Bob Karig


Accurate NH flat trucks was Accurate ASF A-3 trucks in HO

Bruce Smith
 

I said:
Since the ASF A-3 truck has come up in recent discussions, and I
believe that Brianna and I need a couple of sets of plain bearing
ASF A-3 trucks for our HO Speedwitch New Haven flat cars, which is
better/ more accurate/more appropriate for these cars, the IM ASF A-3
or the
Kato ASF A-3?
Brian replied:
The InterMountain ASF truck is mislabeled as being an A-3. It's not.
However, is is a very good ASF truck for some Santa Fe cars.
Once I got home tonight I double checked the instructions for the kit.
Given that the car is a 70 ton flat, Ted suggests the IM "ASF A-3" as a
stand-in for the correct truck. I guess that gives me the answer that the
truck needed isn't really an A-3 <VBG>.

So now, maybe the question should be whether the trucks under the new IM
70 ton AAR flatcar will work under this NH model. I failed to look that
closely at Cocoa to see if they appeared to be 70 ton trucks, so I guess I
might be best off just waiting to see what IM is putting under their new
flat!

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Potato shipping

MDelvec952
 

In frozen climates the spuds were also shipping in reefers, but heater pots were placed in the ice bunkers to keep the lading from freezing. They were oil-burning devices with big fuel tanks.

I've also seen correspondence about bagged potatoes arriving at our State Asylum at Greystone in standard boxcars during mild weather.

....Mike

In a message dated 01/26/09 19:02:55 Eastern Standard Time, rhendrickson@opendoor.com writes:
Michael, the Santa Fe shipped potatoes in the 1950s in SFRD reefers
with no ice in the bunkers and the hatch covers latched open in the
ventilator position. At least, that's how the potato crop from the
Central Valley of California was shipped, and I assume it would have
been the same elsewhere.


Re: Accurate ASF A-3 trucks in HO

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

Folks,

Since the ASF A-3 truck has come up in recent discussions, and I
believe that Brianna and I need a couple of sets of plain bearing
ASF
A-3 trucks for our HO Speedwitch New Haven flat cars, which is
better/
more accurate/more appropriate for these cars, the IM ASF A-3 or the
Kato ASF A-3?

The InterMountain ASF truck is mislabeled as being an A-3. It's not.

However, is is a very good ASF truck for some Santa Fe cars.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Harlem Transfer Company again

David Wiggs
 

A few months back, someone debunked the Harlem Transfer Company RR. I
just ran across this site that provides detailed maps and Army Corps of
Engineers info about it. Really cool stuff; even provides curve radii
and elevations. The link follows:

http://members.trainweb.com/bedt/indloco/ht.html

David in orlando


Western Wheeled Scrapper Co side dump...

Jack Burgess
 

Last October, we briefly discussed on this list whether piston rods on side
dumps should be bright metal or not. At the time, I was kit-bashing an old
MEW side dump to take to Naperville. At the time and based on information
from the Liquidation Notice when the YVRR was scrapped, I thought that the
single side dump owned by the YV was a 11-3/4 CY side dump manufactured by
Western Automatic. After some more research and help from John LaRue in the
last couple of weeks, I have come to the conclusion that the YV's side dump
was built by Western Wheeled Scrapper Company and was a 12 CY model. This
side dump had air cylinders on both sides and 6 pedestals down the center of
the center sill (as opposed to later models which tipped from the sides). It
turns out the MEW kit is for the same Western Wheeled Scrapper 12 CY model
but, for some reason (maybe because it was designed to be a working model),
MEW made the air cylinders too large and the body too high. (The latter is
why the piston rods are exposed while in the neutral position which they
shouldn't be.)

So, I am now looking for plans or even equipment drawings for a 12 CY
Western Wheeled Scrapper side dump. The 12 CY model (at least the one owned
by the YV) had an inside length of 19' 1". I do have an equipment drawing
for a Western Wheeled Scrapper 20 CY side dump owned by the WP which gives
me some of the dimensions I need, assuming that only the length and inside
height changed when the capacity increased. But it doesn't show details of
the air cylinders (if it had them) which would be nice and I would prefer
plans or an equipment drawing for the 12 CY side dump. The WP car was built
in 1913 and the YV purchased their car in 1927 which suggests that it might
have been purchased second-hand...I would assume that larger railroads would
have been purchasing larger cars by then but the YV was always behind the
times when it came to equipment purchases. In addition, the YV would have
used their side dump more like a pickup for cleaning up small slides in the
Merced River canyon rather than heavy-duty maintenance.

Any help or leads would be appreciated.

BTW, last November I asked for help in tracking down plans for the Rodgers
Hart ballast cars owned by the YV. Thanks to John LaRue and Gene Green, I
was able to figure out the model designation for the YV cars and get copies
of the original plans for those cars. The drawings and photos were sent to
the manufacturer a couple of weeks ago. Hopefully, work on the masters for
this kit will be underway next month.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Potato shipping

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 26, 2009, at 3:35 PM, Michael Bishop wrote:

In the 1950's how were potatos shipped on the ATSF? I have seen
lots of
photos which shows the potato house near the stations in Missouri and
Ill, but none with a freight car next to it. I know that NH and BAR
had
speical cars to ship potatos in, what did the ATSF use? Thanks for any
help.






Michael, the Santa Fe shipped potatoes in the 1950s in SFRD reefers
with no ice in the bunkers and the hatch covers latched open in the
ventilator position. At least, that's how the potato crop from the
Central Valley of California was shipped, and I assume it would have
been the same elsewhere.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Accurate ASF A-3 trucks in HO

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 26, 2009, at 1:48 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:

Folks,

Since the ASF A-3 truck has come up in recent discussions, and I
believe that Brianna and I need a couple of sets of plain bearing ASF
A-3 trucks for our HO Speedwitch New Haven flat cars, which is better/
more accurate/more appropriate for these cars, the IM ASF A-3 or the
Kato ASF A-3? And where might one purchase said trucks, given that
Walthers is fresh out (well, at least for the IM trucks, they've been
out for over a year)?










Bruce, don't forget that Kadee also makes a very nice ASF A-3 truck,
if you can tolerate the puny "working" springs.

Richard Hendrickson


Potato shipping

Michael Bishop <goldrod_1@...>
 

In the 1950's how were potatos shipped on the ATSF? I have seen lots of
photos which shows the potato house near the stations in Missouri and
Ill, but none with a freight car next to it. I know that NH and BAR had
speical cars to ship potatos in, what did the ATSF use? Thanks for any
help.
Michael Bishop


Re: MECHANICAL REEFERS

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

First mechanicals on the MDT roster were Northern Pacific cars in
1955; NP management felt they had to keep up with the Jones's


Roger Hinman

On Jan 25, 2009, at 6:19 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:

I said the first mechanicals were, I believe, built in 1957. But I
could be wrong about that.
Yep. Extensive experimentation at FGE in the late 1940s led to
commercially viable mechanical reefers by 1951. PFE and SFRD followed
in the next two years. So it is VERY clear that mechanicals ran behind
steam in many places. My 1953 layout hosts a brand-new PFE mechanical
reefer.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



Re: accurate Barber trucks

Bill Kelly
 

After going back and comparing the SCT Co entries in the '46, '49 and
'53 I see my mistake with the lateral motion device. I also saw nothing
that looked like a lateral motion device in the drawing but figured that
the differences I saw amounted to the lateral motion device in the
description. In comparing entries I see that the S-2A while being new to
the '49 CBC was not "The lateset type of Barber Stabilized truck..."
referred to in the description and let it mislead me. The only
differences I saw were in the wedge shape and the bolster, the thickness
of the end of the bolster is hardly something that I could discern in a
photo. I couldn't agree more that the Branchline truck is a good S-2 or
S-2A spring-plankless truck.
Thanks Richard,
Later,
Bill Kelly


Richard Hendrickson wrote:
On Jan 26, 2009, at 12:09 PM, Bill Kelly wrote:

While the S-2 is in the '46 Car Builder's Cyclopedia, the S-2A is
not so
I went to the '49-'51 CBC. Both the S-2 and the S-2A are shown on
pp1010,1011. The difference is the S-2A has a built in lateral
motion
device and is intended for "high speed freight service". The
difference
in appearance is very small and would be hard for me to see in
most
freight car photos. Standard Car Truck Co.'s entry says that the
S-2 and
the S-2A can be had with or without spring planks, can be used
with
AAR
or double truss sideframes and can be made with any desired
spring
travel. Hope this helps.










I did the same research and came to the same conclusion, Bill. I'm

not sure where I got the idea the the S-2s had spring planks and the

S-2As didn't, but that's obviously not the case. However, I don't

agree that the S-2A had a lateral motion device. I've carefully
studied the drawing in the '49/'51 Cyc and I can find no evidence of

any provision for lateral motion. The Barber truck that had both
the
spring-wedge bolster snubbers and Barber's roller type lateral
motion
devices between the springs and bolster was the S-1 (or, later, S-1-

L). In any case, the differences between the S-2 and S-2A are so
slight as to be all but invisible in HO scale, so I continue to
regard the Branchline truck as an accurate HO scale representation
of
either the spring-plankless S-2 or S-2A and the closest we can come

at present to a Barber S-2/S-2A with spring plank.

Richard Hendrickson
____________________________________________________________
Click here to find the low cost way to send and receive faxes by email!
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Accurate ASF A-3 trucks in HO

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

Since the ASF A-3 truck has come up in recent discussions, and I
believe that Brianna and I need a couple of sets of plain bearing ASF
A-3 trucks for our HO Speedwitch New Haven flat cars, which is better/
more accurate/more appropriate for these cars, the IM ASF A-3 or the
Kato ASF A-3? And where might one purchase said trucks, given that
Walthers is fresh out (well, at least for the IM trucks, they've been
out for over a year)?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
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| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: New Intermountain Cars

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "devansprr" <devans1@...> wrote:

Several of the Cocoa Beach/RPM posts mentioned prototypes of two new
IM cars - a 70t AAR flat, and a War Emergency box.
Thanks to all for the great feedback - have been away from MRR for a
few days. Amazing the amount of good info available within this group!

Thank-you,
Dave Evans


Re: accurate Barber trucks

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Paul Lyons wrote:
--I thought the SP version?is what the whole tread was?about!
The whole tread is getting pretty worn.

Tony Thompson
Tony, having just gone through this in the digest format, it was kind
of fun.

Who's on first?

Best Regards,
Dave Evans


Re: accurate Barber trucks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dougl Harding wrote:

Now I am confused, because no where in Mark's message to this list, the STMFC list, does he mention the SP or tank cars. He simply asks "Which HO-model truck(s) best, if not correctly, represents the Barber stabilized ASF trucks? Thanks!"

For it appears there was a similar question asked on another list, which apparently contained more details not all on this list were privy too. And which folks are answering on this list assuming we all know the question.

No wonder I am confused.
Well summarized, Doug.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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