Date   

Re: MECHANICAL REEFERS

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Let me be clear: I didn't say the RC Mechanical was in scope. I said the first mechanicals were, I
believe, built in 1957. But I could be wrong about that.

You mixed up what Gene wrote and what I wrote.

SGL

The HO scale PC&F design mechanical reefer that is now available Red
Caboose represents a PFE R-70-15 class car, built in 1965 (new date,
not reweigh date). The NP cars now available from nprha.org, were
built to identical external design in 1964-65. So alas, out of scope here.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
...
Red Caboose lists re-weigh dates in the mid-1960s so maybe these are
outside the scope of the discussion forum.
...




Re: MECHANICAL REEFERS

leakinmywaders
 

The HO scale PC&F design mechanical reefer that is now available Red
Caboose represents a PFE R-70-15 class car, built in 1965 (new date,
not reweigh date). The NP cars now available from nprha.org, were
built to identical external design in 1964-65. So alas, out of scope here.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:
...
Red Caboose lists re-weigh dates in the mid-1960s so maybe these are
outside the scope of the discussion forum.
...


Re: Sunshine's 2009 California meets

Dave Nelson
 

Tom Madden wrote:
In all the discussion of the GATC tank car sheet included in Martin
Lofton's mailing for his 2009 California meets, I'm surprised no one
has mentioned that the mailing also states that this will be Martin's
last California trip. He's also not selling at the Orange Empire
Railway Museum swap meet this year. Anyone have any insights into
these two rather startling developments? (He will be selling at
WinterRail in Stockton.)

Tom Madden
Martin has said on several occasions the California trips are not usually
worth the time and expense and that he usually does the Pleasanton show at a
loss.

The later event is March 15 and has been relocated to the La Quinta Inn in
Livermore.

Dave Nelson


Re: MECHANICAL REEFERS

Schuyler Larrabee
 

According to the Red Caboose web site there are 57' mechanical reefers
coming in the future. That may not be the most recent information,
however, because I have already seen these mech reefers listed on eBay.

Red Caboose lists re-weigh dates in the mid-1960s so maybe these are
outside the scope of the discussion forum.

Gene Green
These were on display at Cocoa, as a special car for the NPHS, decorated in the silver scheme. They
are VERY nice models, if a tad pricy, but probably worth it if you want that model. IIRC (and I
very well may not) the first mechanicals were built in '57, so we're in scope (unless I'm
misinformed about that).

SGL


Re: Sunshine's 2009 California meets

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

included in Martin
Lofton's mailing for his 2009 California meets,<
As I am not in Fremont right now the mailing will probably set in my mail box for awhile. My question is the date for the meeting.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: MECHANICAL REEFERS

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

According to the Red Caboose web site there are 57' mechanical reefers
coming in the future. That may not be the most recent information,
however, because I have already seen these mech reefers listed on eBay.

Red Caboose lists re-weigh dates in the mid-1960s so maybe these are
outside the scope of the discussion forum.

Gene Green


Re: SP B-50-20 box cars

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

My sincere thanks to Ed Hawkins, Steve Hile, Bill Keene, Joe Jacques
and Al Brown for information about the SP's B-50-20 box cars.

Looks like there is one more book I "need." Actually I would really
like to have all the SP freight car books from Tony Thompson. Maybe
there will be an income tax refund this year.

Gene Green


Re: SP B-50-20 box cars

al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

I am looking at a Pressed Steel Car Co. ad in the Oct. 21, 1944
issue of Railway Age on pages 10 & 11. The ad has a B&W photo
(What a misnomer that is. It is shades of grey, not black and
white.) of SP B-50-20 box car 84199 built 12-40.

From the legible dimensional data can be read IL 40-6, IW 9-2 and
IH 10-0, all of which matches the IMWX/Red Caboose box car. The
Red Caboose web site lists "RC-8038 Southern Pacific 96220-96919
First 600 Superior., remaining cars were Youngstown."

The car in the photo has 5 panels on each side of the door, 4/5
(top to bottom) round-corner Dreadnaught ends and an Equipco 3160
hand brake. The roof and running boards are not visible enough to
identify. If I had to guess, though, I'd say the running board is
Apex.

Are both the 84199 car number and the number series listed by Red
Caboose correct?
From Thompson, "SP Freight Cars, vol 4", p248:
class B-50-20 consisted of 83240-83739, blt 12/40-1/41; 83740-84239,
blt 11-12/40; 84240-84739, blt 1-3/41.
Series 96220-96919 was part of class B-50-23, blt 1-3/42.
I dunno about decals.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

In what year were the 96220-96919 cars built?

The SP herald appears to be black and white and about 36" in
diameter.

Are decals or dry transfers suitable for this car available
somewhere?

The photo runs across two pages and does not lend itself to copying
or scanning but if someone asked I would do my best.
Thanks in advance to any who can shed light
Gene Green


Sunshine's 2009 California meets

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

In all the discussion of the GATC tank car sheet included in Martin
Lofton's mailing for his 2009 California meets, I'm surprised no one
has mentioned that the mailing also states that this will be Martin's
last California trip. He's also not selling at the Orange Empire
Railway Museum swap meet this year. Anyone have any insights into these
two rather startling developments? (He will be selling at WinterRail in
Stockton.)

Tom Madden


Timonium - Open House

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

I will have my annual open house of my model railroad (featuring my latest steam era freight cars!) following the Timonium show on Saturday, January 31, 2009, from 6 pm to 10 pm.

The good folks at Springhaven Shops will have printed directions for those of you attending Timonium that might need them.

One of my crew has a web page, somewhat outdated, that features my layout; you can view it at:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/rdaniels2/

For anyone who cannot attend Timonium, but would still like to visit the layout, contact me off list at:

jfbrewer at comcast dot net

and I will be glad to provide directions to you.

As in the past, feel free to bring friends/family with you who are interested in seeing the layout. My house is about a 40 minute drive from Timonium; I'm located just off of I-70 in Howard County, west of Columbia.

Hope to see many of you on the 31st!

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Re: SP B-50-20 box cars

bowie1793
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:


( Are decals or dry transfers suitable for this car available
somewhere?)

A great set of decals are available from Speedwitch Media for these
cars. Set #D114 will letter up to five cars.

Joe Jacques


Re: MECHANICAL REEFERS

David North <davenorth@...>
 

1. Athearn PFE (plastic)
2. PacificHO-SilverStreak-GoldenSpike FGE/BRE/WFE (plastic)
3. Wright Trak FGE/BRE/WFE (resin kit)
Thas it. (2 and 3 are basically the same car.)
Tim O'Connor





Tim, Athearn listed two mechanical reefers.

1) 50' 140-1619 to 1630

2) 57' 140-5461 to 5460

And Con-Cor do a 57'.



Do you know what the prototype build dates for these three cars are, please.

I gather the 50' car is the PFE car you were referring to.

Cheers

Dave


Re: Resin kit problems...

krlpeters
 

Dear Dennis:
 
Could the shape of the part have an effect as well?
 
I have purchased over the years about 15 of the Westerfield PSC ore car kits, and in every single one, the hopper bay casting is warped in the center.  Some I will be able to sand straight, but others will have to be softened and spread out.
 
I have to admit this is the only problem I have had with Westerfield kits over the years.
 
Karl Peters

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: unusual end on automobile car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 24, 2009, at 1:21 PM, destron@vcn.bc.ca wrote:

There were several variants of vertically-ribbed ends. The PM
style, of
which as Richard said there were some on the UP; the UP had one (on a
stock car series IIRC) that was similar, but was flat outboard
under the
ladder and on the corresponding opposite side; there was the
inverse one
the Michigan Central had, and yet another inverse one on some
Wheeling &
Lake Erie cars.







The ends on the UP stock cars were former UP auto car end doors
converted to fixed ends (some S-40-10 class stock cars were rebuilt
from A-50-5 class auto cars). And the inverse corrugated ends on
the MC and W&LE cars were Vulcan ends made by the Cleveland-Chicago
Car Roofing Co., not Murphy ends as on the PM and UP cars.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Resin kit problems...

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@> wrote:
when I supplied
flat cast parts to Speedwitch to be built into patterns for their
reissue of my Soo Line boxcar as a one piece body kit....
Does that mean that the resulting car is not exactly the same as the
original Soo SS box car?
Only in that they are .002 - .003 inches shorter. The modeler
typically sands that much off to square the car assembly anyway. Resin
kits is all about accurate appearance, not accurate size. Then again,
if you can see .003" difference (an HO scale 1/4") in the length of
the assembled cars, you're a better man than I.

By the way, that (the original Soo SS box car) was first class, i.e.
Westerfield quality. Those cars had the thickest sides I recall
Because they needed the thickness to provide the ledge the floor
seated against


You made the sides for the Accurail SS box car with 6 diagonals by
hand, right? Then somehow copied them into the molds?
Trade secret! :-)

Dennis


Resin kit problems...

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Dennis Storzek" <destorzek@...> wrote:
when I supplied
flat cast parts to Speedwitch to be built into patterns for their
reissue of my Soo Line boxcar as a one piece body kit....
Does that mean that the resulting car is not exactly the same as the
original Soo SS box car?

By the way, that (the original Soo SS box car) was first class, i.e.
Westerfield quality. Those cars had the thickest sides I recall

You made the sides for the Accurail SS box car with 6 diagonals by
hand, right? Then somehow copied them into the molds?

Ed


Re: unusual end on automobile car

destron@...
 

Also, Ted C. aka Speedwitch Media
recently issued a nice resin kit for the PM 88000-88349 series single
sheathed auto box cars with Hutchins ends.
The Piedmont & Northern also had an almost identical design, 165 of them
in interchange service until 1936, when 150 of them went to the AC&Y. I
don't know what happened with the other 15. The first 150 cars the P&N got
were built by Pressed Steel, and then the P&N built 15 more at home; it
may be that the AC&Y only bought the PSC cars.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Re: unusual end on automobile car

destron@...
 

Not all were door-ends; in fact, I'm fairly certain the PM's cars with the
8+8 ends did not have any end doors at all, just solid ends. The car in
the photo is a PM car.

There were several variants of vertically-ribbed ends. The PM style, of
which as Richard said there were some on the UP; the UP had one (on a
stock car series IIRC) that was similar, but was flat outboard under the
ladder and on the corresponding opposite side; there was the inverse one
the Michigan Central had, and yet another inverse one on some Wheeling &
Lake Erie cars.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

Rob, the Pere Marquette car had a four panel Hutchins end. The
vertically corrugated end door on the adjacent auto car was a Murphy
end door made by the Union Metal Products Co. (later Standard Railway
Equipment Co.) This was probably the most common auto car end door
in the early to mid-1920s, before Dreadnaught end doors were
introduced. Union Pacific had them on its A-50-5 class automobile
cars, but the car in the photo isn't a UP car (wrong lettering style).

Richard Hendrickson






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




!DSPAM:1291,497b49c6133772427768942!

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Re: unusual end on automobile car

destron@...
 

These are the PM's USRA DS clones - both in the first image you linked to
are. The first batch of them had the vertically-ribbed 8+8 Vulcan ends,
and the latter batch had the early Hutchins end visible on the other car.
The vertically-ribbed cars were in the 86000 series, the others in the
88000 series (before the PM started renumbering cars based on the service
they were allocated to). A number of these cars, of both types, ended up
with other roads - Piedmont & Northern, Manistee & Northeastern, Escanaba
& Lake Superior and Chattahoochee Valley, that I know of; there may be
others.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC

Actually, another view of the same car is shown in E-Bay auction #
260351130267 - showing a car number (illegible to me).

Rob Kirkham

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Rob Kirkham" <rdkirkham@live.ca>
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 7:56 AM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: unusual end on automobile car

This E-Bay auction (no relation to me) has a train wreck photo showing
what are to me quite unusual ends on an automobile car - vertical ribs.
Is the car identifiable by that feature? The wide ribs on PM 87121
(uncertain) are also interesting. Its number 260351137371, and this
link
may work:
<http://cgi.ebay.com/Canadian-Pacific-Railroad-Wreck-Lyndon-Vermont-RPPC-2_W0QQitemZ260351137371QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item260351137371&;_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A4%7C65%3A1%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318>

Rob Kirkham

------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




!DSPAM:1291,497b3ab9133771613458566!

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Re: Resin kit problems...

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

The common factor seems to be that these models both have thin sides,
approx. .025" for the boards of the gon, and about .040" on the coach
sides. They also have no roof or a roof not yet attached to the car
sides. The roof of a house car would add stability to the finished
model.
Ah, the old problem of unequal wall section. People who design
injection molds have it repeatedly reinforced that unequal wall
sections are bad, bad, bad... because they see the results of unequal
shrinkage immediately as soon as the first part is ejecte
(unfortunately, that is not soon enough to save all the money that
will be spent to rework the mold).

With the resins used in resin kits, the results can be delayed,
sometimes for years. Here is what likely happened:

The resins used in what we are calling resin kits are classed as
thermosets, which change chemically as they cure, as opposed to
thermoplastics, which are simply melted, and freeze into the shape
defined by the mold.

Thermosets can also be injection molded, in fact the factory that used
to be next door to Accurail compounded thermosetting molding compounds
that were shipped elsewhere for molding. They simply blended polyester
resin, chopped glass and other fillers, and catalyst, catylizing the
mix to a level that would not react at normal temperatures. When the
"bulk molding compound" as it's called, was forced into a heated mold,
the chemical reaction "kicked off", and the material hardened into a
part. Herein lies the clue as to what has happened to the resin kits
in your example.

The resins used need to attain a certain temperature to properly
polymerize. The resin systems are designed around a certain
temperature being attained in the part, either by exothermic reaction
(heat generated by the chemistry of the mix) or endothermic reaction
(heat absorbed from the surroundings). Exothermic materials are
designed with a certain volume and wall thickness in mind; too thin a
section allows the heat to escape into the surroundings before the
material can properly cure. However, typically they will partially
cure, and look just fine.

What has likely happened in the example is that the thick floor /
underframe portion fully cured, and fully shrunk while still in the
mold. the thinner sides, however, only partially cured, and will
continue to cure over time. Often an increase in ambiant temperature
(like storage in a hot attic) will result in additional curing. This
curing consists of more molecular cross linking, and more cross
linking draws the molecules closer together, which we see as
shrinkage. When the sides get shorter, but the floor remains the same
length, the part bows. If the car would have been built, with the roof
installed, the roof may have held the assembly straight, if the glue
held. If not, the model would have popped apart.

Back when resin kits were all flat kits, the universal advice for
warped parts was to lay them on a cookie sheet in a "low oven"...
maybe 180*F. This typically flattened them out, since while the resins
are thermosets initially, the cured resin is thermoplastic enough to
become more flexible when heated. While the intention of this process
was to bend the parts back flat, it had the unintended consequence of
increasing the temperature they were stable at to whatever the oven
was set at, which is likely a higher temperature than they'd ever be
subject to again.

I have used this method for that secondary purpose; when I supplied
flat cast parts to Speedwitch to be built into patterns for their
reissue of my Soo Line boxcar as a one piece body kit, I ran all the
parts through the oven, not to straighten them, but to stabilize them
to a higher temperature so that they would be less likely to do
anything unexpected when assembled and used as masters for new molds.
However, I really have no way of telling if I really did anything
useful, other than noting that they did come out a couple thousandths
of an inch shorter than when they went in, so there was indeed some
additional cross linking. Whether it did any good, well, it's kind of
like paying for insurance... if you never need it, I guess it doesn't
do any good :-)

What to do with a warped one piece body? Well, if you can support it
adequately in three dimensions, you should be able to heat it and get
it to straighten out. Let us know how it turns out.

Dennis

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