Date   

Re: Roundhouse/MDC metal cars

Tom Madden <tgmadden@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:

Back in the day MDC made a number of freight car kits using metal
castings. Except for the drop-bottom gondola I don't recall anyone
ever identifying prototypes for any of the MDC metal cars.
Ulrich had a metal drop bottom GS gon. Did MDC/Roundhouse have a drop
bottom gon as well??

Tom Madden


Re: Roundhouse/MDC metal cars

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

close or an exact model<
Sorta close from about 6 feet. If you want exact buy a Westerfield <VBG>!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Roundhouse/MDC metal cars

rdietrichson
 

Gene,
There was also a model of a Panel side boxcar that was close or an exact model of of a Santa Fe Bx-3/6.
Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington, NC

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:51 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Roundhouse/MDC metal cars


Gene Green wrote:
> I am specifically interested in the old Roundhouse stock car with
> metal sides and the single-sheathed box car with metal truss and wood
> sides. Does anyone know if either have a prototype and if so, what?

I think these two truss castings are the same. I always used to
think it was the ARA box car, but haven't really checked details or
dimensions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Roundhouse/MDC metal cars

Park Varieties <parkvarieties@...>
 

If I remember correctly, the stock car is based loosely on the Pennsy K7 stock car.
Frank Brua

----- Original Message -----
From: Gene Green
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 6:47 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Roundhouse/MDC metal cars


Back in the day MDC made a number of freight car kits using metal
castings. Except for the drop-bottom gondola I don't recall anyone
ever identifying prototypes for any of the MDC metal cars.

I searched the archives and came up with some information/suppositions
about the later plastic model's prototypes.

I am specifically interested in the old Roundhouse stock car with
metal sides and the single-sheathed box car with metal truss and wood
sides. Does anyone know if either have a prototype and if so, what?

Gene Green


Re: Roundhouse/MDC metal cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
I am specifically interested in the old Roundhouse stock car with metal sides and the single-sheathed box car with metal truss and wood sides. Does anyone know if either have a prototype and if so, what?
I think these two truss castings are the same. I always used to think it was the ARA box car, but haven't really checked details or dimensions.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Roundhouse/MDC metal cars

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Back in the day MDC made a number of freight car kits using metal
castings. Except for the drop-bottom gondola I don't recall anyone
ever identifying prototypes for any of the MDC metal cars.

I searched the archives and came up with some information/suppositions
about the later plastic model's prototypes.

I am specifically interested in the old Roundhouse stock car with
metal sides and the single-sheathed box car with metal truss and wood
sides. Does anyone know if either have a prototype and if so, what?

Gene Green


Re: Central Valley 5' Arch Bar trucks.

Don Burn
 

Years ago Ed Ravenscroft (sp?) had an article in Model Railroader (I think 61) on his hump yard. He had a simple tilt track he had made that would test trucks based on the grade. His was specific but I suspect you could make one with spacers to see try various grades.

Don Burn

----- Original Message -----
From: "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@yahoo.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 5:46 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Central Valley 5' Arch Bar trucks.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
<snip> Why not directly compare them? Seems sensible to me.
Tony,
You are probably right. There are no absolute standards for
rollability, anyway. It is all relative.

I just need to rig up some test method that will work for me and which
will indicate which truck/wheelset combinations are better and which
are worse.

The Reboxx test gizmo is relatively high priced for me and occupies a
lot of real estate that I don't really have.

Gene Green




__________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3762 (20090113) __________

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com


Re: Central Valley 5' Arch Bar trucks.

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
<snip> Why not directly compare them? Seems sensible to me.
Tony,
You are probably right. There are no absolute standards for
rollability, anyway. It is all relative.

I just need to rig up some test method that will work for me and which
will indicate which truck/wheelset combinations are better and which
are worse.

The Reboxx test gizmo is relatively high priced for me and occupies a
lot of real estate that I don't really have.

Gene Green


Re: Central Valley 5' Arch Bar trucks.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gene Green wrote:
Another party to this discussion made the point that testing the truck alone and testing trucks with a car might yield different results.
Sure, and different cars with a specific truck might yield different results; but what we are evaluating is truck vs. truck (or more usually, wheelset vs. wheelset in a particular sideframe. Why not directly compare them? Seems sensible to me.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Central Valley 5' Arch Bar trucks.

Gene Green <bierglaeser@...>
 

Tim,

What sort of grade is your inclined track?

I have about 18 feet of track on an incline of approximately 1 1/2%.
If I let a car go on that grade it is going fast enough to knock the
coupler off for sure and maybe do even more damage. Of course, having
the track end at a solid wall may contribute to the damage.

My point really is that a 1 1/2% grade is way too steep for any meanful
test unless there was a really long - 100 feet? - level track for the
car to coast to a stop.

Another party to this discussion made the point that testing the truck
alone and testing trucks with a car might yield different results.

Gene Green


Re: Prototype Rails-2009 - "Shake and Take"

jerryglow2
 

There were still seats available the morning of the clinic. We had a
freind come down for the day who wasn't aware of the clinic. I asked
Mike Brock if any were available and he said yes and to get together
with Armand to get set up.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Brennan <brennan8@...> wrote:

At 09:56 AM 1/12/2009, Clark Propst wrote:
<snip>
I do have a problem with the "Shake and Take" clinic. Greg Martin
along with Jim Singer, John Greedy and Doc Denny (and maybe others)
spend a great deal of time and their own money to put out a fine
unique kit. They allow for 25-30 participants, yet each year only
to
have just a hand full of completed models brought back each year
for
display. I would be discouraged with the meager results, but to
those
guys's credit they are very upbeat and are busy planning next
year's
model.
This should be -easy- to fix:
Require 2009 attendees registering for the 2010 "Shake and Take" to
submit a photo of / and bring their 2009 clinic model.
My guess is that some additional seats would open-up...

For those trying to game the system... the best they could do would
be every-other year's clinic.
Just a thought...


--------------------
Richard Brennan - San Leandro CA (far... far... -away from Cocoa
Beach)
--------------------


Re: X43C side sills

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Andy;



I am sure you are right, but I did not go into some of the issues I do not
have good enough info on. I do not know if the cross-bearers were beefed up
on the 8-foot door cars, or not (I suspect not), but the introduction of door
gussets, beefed-up side sills, and introduction of newer, heavier designs was
clearly a response to the perceived inadequacies of some of the lightweight
designs and other designs adopted earlier for use by the PRR. If most of
their box cars had spent their time hauling grain, these fixes may not have
ever been necessary.



Elden Gatwood



________________________________

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Andy
Miller
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 10:46 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] X43C side sills



I suspect the X43C's were also the worst because they had the widest doors (8
ft) and therefore the least longitudinal strength.

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] X43C side sills

. . .

The X43 classes (X43 through X43C) were a disappointment to the PRR. They
rapidly exhibited sagging and cracking problems, necessitating these fixes.
The X43C was the worst, since they were often diverted into coil service and
other uses involving forklifts, that contributed to the problem.

. . .
Elden Gatwood
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NEED CAR COUNTS FROM 1916 AND 1917

Dick
 

I am looking for car counts from any 1916 and or 1917 ORER. If you
have a 1916 or 1917 ORER please contact me off list.

Thanks.

Dick
wb2raj@aol.com


Re: Central Valley 5' Arch Bar trucks.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Tim O' C. writes-

The problem with the "roll tester" is that it can't measure
how the trucks perform with a car on them.

On my workbench I have an incline and just let the car roll
as far as it can freely -- typically 5 to 7 feet for a good
free roller, 10 feet for an exceptional roller, and lesser
distances mean that it needs work.

What did you lube them with?
I am certain that Tim's solution works just fine, but it is more
cumbersome IMHO (I used the same method before purchasing the
Rolltester) . In my experience, the rolltester results are pretty
reproducible and track well enough to real operations, and the tester
itself is pretty compact. On occasion I also test trucks with attached
lead weight. I am surprised that only on occasion will the presence
or absence of weight make any significant difference.

I use LaBelle 108 as lubricant.

Denny


Re: X43C side sills

mopacfirst
 

Thanks, this is what I needed. I have the culprit (Branchline) half-
built and I realized all the photos I saw were the modified cars with
plain keystone. For the early 60s era, then, I'm in the clear.

Thanks also to the PRR truck list that shows ASF A-3 for these cars.

Ron Merrick


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gatwood, Elden J SAD "
<elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Ron;

Were the PRR X43C built with side sill tabs
Yes, just like other "standard" AAR '44 design cars.

and modified later to side sills that spanned from bolster to
bolster?

Yes, but there was also an intermediate fix that just spanned the
doorway
area fitted to some X43 cars

If so, roughly when did that program start and end.

From photos it appears that the full bolster-to-bolster side sill
reinforcement program began in very late '66 or early '67 (I do not
have my
photos here to check), and also involved removal of running boards
and some
ladder cut-downs. Cars were repainted into the then-current "Plain
Keystone"
scheme.

Were all the cars upgraded,

I do not know if the program was all-encompassing, but it sure
appeared to me
that the majority of X43 class cars got this fix. No, I do not
remember it
going into PC days, so the program may have only run through '67.

and were different styles of side sill reinforcement applied?

Yes, there was an intermediate fix applied that featured a
trapezoidal shape
reinforcement, but I will have to find a photo. I think there is a
photo in
one of the Morning Sun books.

For a car painted Shadow Keystone, which style would be most likely?

They may have applied the earlier fix to a car in SK lettering, but
I have
never seen one. All of the later fixes I have seen were repainted
in PK
lettering, since SK repaints ended in Dec of '61.

The X43 classes (X43 through X43C) were a disappointment to the
PRR. They
rapidly exhibited sagging and cracking problems, necessitating
these fixes.
The X43C was the worst, since they were often diverted into coil
service and
other uses involving forklifts, that contributed to the problem.
The PRR,
just a few years after buying all those X43 cars, decided to design
their own
class to follow, the X46, which featured a full-length side sill
made of
shallow channel, doorway stiffeners, and an extra side post above
the
bolster. These latter cars lasted until CR, while the X43 were
sold off,
some to companies like USRE, who refurbished them and sold/leased
them to
other RRs.

Elden Gatwood


Re: X43C side sills

Andy Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

I suspect the X43C's were also the worst because they had the widest doors (8 ft) and therefore the least longitudinal strength.

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:55 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] X43C side sills


. . .

The X43 classes (X43 through X43C) were a disappointment to the PRR. They
rapidly exhibited sagging and cracking problems, necessitating these fixes.
The X43C was the worst, since they were often diverted into coil service and
other uses involving forklifts, that contributed to the problem.

. . .
Elden Gatwood
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Re: Bruce Smith's boiler load

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Bruce Smith writes:

"I have posted a photo of the boiler load to the STMFC photos section
which Mike should approve pretty fast, since it is my photo <G>. It
will be in a folder called "Bruce Smith's album"."

Yep, done. Reckon that would make it through Hermosa Tunnel? 'Course, one might ask, "What's it doing out in Wyoming?" so maybe we don't need to find out.

Mike Brock


Bruce Smith's boiler load

Bruce Smith
 

Folks,

A correction on the boiler load. It was pointed out to me off line
that these boilers are not from Victory or Liberty ships, but from
British Empire class ships, at least 30 of which were built in 2 US
yards (one on each coast). At least I had the fact that three
boilers were used for each ship correct <VBG>

I have posted a photo of the boiler load to the STMFC photos section
which Mike should approve pretty fast, since it is my photo <G>. It
will be in a folder called "Bruce Smith's album".

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: X43C side sills

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Ron;

Were the PRR X43C built with side sill tabs
Yes, just like other "standard" AAR '44 design cars.

and modified later to side sills that spanned from bolster to bolster?

Yes, but there was also an intermediate fix that just spanned the doorway
area fitted to some X43 cars

If so, roughly when did that program start and end.

From photos it appears that the full bolster-to-bolster side sill
reinforcement program began in very late '66 or early '67 (I do not have my
photos here to check), and also involved removal of running boards and some
ladder cut-downs. Cars were repainted into the then-current "Plain Keystone"
scheme.

Were all the cars upgraded,

I do not know if the program was all-encompassing, but it sure appeared to me
that the majority of X43 class cars got this fix. No, I do not remember it
going into PC days, so the program may have only run through '67.

and were different styles of side sill reinforcement applied?

Yes, there was an intermediate fix applied that featured a trapezoidal shape
reinforcement, but I will have to find a photo. I think there is a photo in
one of the Morning Sun books.

For a car painted Shadow Keystone, which style would be most likely?

They may have applied the earlier fix to a car in SK lettering, but I have
never seen one. All of the later fixes I have seen were repainted in PK
lettering, since SK repaints ended in Dec of '61.

The X43 classes (X43 through X43C) were a disappointment to the PRR. They
rapidly exhibited sagging and cracking problems, necessitating these fixes.
The X43C was the worst, since they were often diverted into coil service and
other uses involving forklifts, that contributed to the problem. The PRR,
just a few years after buying all those X43 cars, decided to design their own
class to follow, the X46, which featured a full-length side sill made of
shallow channel, doorway stiffeners, and an extra side post above the
bolster. These latter cars lasted until CR, while the X43 were sold off,
some to companies like USRE, who refurbished them and sold/leased them to
other RRs.

Elden Gatwood


X43C side sills

mopacfirst
 

Were the PRR X43C built with side sill tabs and modified later to side
sills that spanned from bolster to bolster? If so, roughly when did
that program start and end. Were all the cars upgraded, and were
different styles of side sill reinforcement applied?

For a car painted Shadow Keystone, which style would be most likely?

Ron Merrick

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