Date   

Re: making the case for self-tapping screws

James Kubanick <kuban@...>
 

Another technique is to use a bushing under the head of a machine screw. While I have made these from styrene tubing in the past, I now make these bushings by shaving the center bushing off of a Kadee #5 coupler box with a sharp, single-edge razor blade.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

----- Original Message -----
From: David North
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 5:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: making the case for self-tapping screws


I've had the same problem with the truck retaining screws coming

loose on styrene cars that don't have the collar for the screw to bind
against.

eg: MDC cars that don't come with one, or Athearn etc cars where I trimmed
the post

too short.

Using a self tapper runs the risk of splitting the bolster, so I choose not
to go there,

plus removal of the screw more than once or twice will create the same issue
-

each time you retighten the screw, it will turn in a fraction further
looking for the clamping point.

A while back I started using nylon screws to retain my trucks.

As they are screwed in, the thread acts like a nyloc nut and the screws stay

wherever I've screwed them to.

This allows very fine adjustment of the tighter truck of the 3 point
suspension system.

Plus the screws have a slightly larger head that fits the land on the truck
a little better IMHO.

Here is the link to the Micro Fasteners 2-56 screws I use.

http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/NYLNBPP.cfm

cheers

Dave





!DSPAM:4952b3e019795268152715!


Re: Other LIFE image finds

James Kubanick <kuban@...>
 

I agree that is not a PCC body and it does not strike me as a Brill master unit, either. The body is, again, too short and the contours do not appear to be right. There weren't all that many Master Units built(compared to the PCC) and they were somewhat more boxy than those in the photo. The body style looks like that of an ACF--Brill bus body in a trolley bus configuration. I remember gas (diesel?) powered versions operating in Pittsburgh on the Avalon route. They were eye catching as they were set up with a full height and width engine compartment in the rear and, thus, lacked a rear passenger window - unusual for that time in a city bus.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

----- Original Message -----
From: Dennis Storzek
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 3:03 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Other LIFE image finds


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "bnpmodeler" <bnchmark@...> wrote:
>
> David and list;
>
> In reply to your original question: on a regular bus, the roof would
> appear smooth; in the image that we are referring to, the busses
> clearly have components on their roofs that suggest the typical dual
> trolley poles and their associated machinery that regular busses
> would not have. I noticed this in this photo immediately. Very neat
> detail!
>
> Jim Harr

Actually, I think David was questioning why I (or we, since a lot of
people have responded) didn't think it was a streamlined streetcar,
since you can't see whether it has trucks or tires. The twin
headlights are the giveaway. The shape of the end of body says for
certain that it's not a PCC car, but the thought occurred to me that
they could be Brill Master Unit cars, which had similar styling on the
ends to the ACF-Brill busses, but a quick Google on "Brill Master
Unit" doesn't turn up any with twin headlights. See:

http://www.trainweb.org/oerhs/roster/portlandtraction_813.htm

Dennis



!DSPAM:4952959919797323122753!


Re: Other LIFE image finds

rfederle@...
 

I may not have helped much. Clarification: Railroads here may not use shells much now days. I do know the Louisiana and Delta (former Missouri Pacific and later Southern Pacific facility) has alot of shell in the Rip Track areas. On the mains however, ballast is used here.

Robert federle
New Iberia, Louisiana
---- rfederle@cox.net wrote:

Yes it is. Maybe not to the extent it was then but Oyster shell and others are still used. I had shells in my driveway till a few years ago and topped that with pea gravel. Those shells, when fairly fresh, tend to have an odor for a while, especially when it rains, but goes away relatively quick.

A comment was made about the Avondale Yard not having lights. Could it be they relied on hand held illumination? I recall seeing many photos of lanterns used for work as well as signalling. Just a thought.

Robert Federle
New Iberia, Louisiana
---- James Kubanick <kuban@321online.net> wrote:
That might not be ballast. When I lived in New Orleans during the early '60s, it was common practice to use shells dredged out of Lake Ponchartrain in place of gravel, which was scarce in that part of the country. The shells were very white and often used for walkways driveways, etc. They could be found everywhere in the greater New Orleans area. I wonder if this is still common practice down there.

Jim Kubanick,
Morgantown WV

----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Fertitta
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Other LIFE image finds


RE; The Avondale Yard Photo

There doesn't appear to be a 50' car anywhere in sight. Look at the cars on the leftmost RIP track that look like roofless loaded boxcars. There appears to be a (striped) steam line with a tap to the yard office (I assume) that parallels the track and ends in front of a tool shed. There is a potbelly stove out in the open between the tracks. The entire yard looks recently ballasted. At least two "economy" cabooses built on flatcars from old boxcars. Approximately 15% of the cars are tank cars. There are no floodlights for yard illumination.
(Very peculiar because I've heard it gets real dark at night in that part of Louisiana.)

Frank



--- On Wed, 12/24/08, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:

From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Other LIFE image finds
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 3:30 PM

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote:
>
> The rip track at T&NO yard in Avondale, LA in 1942.
> This image makes me think we do not model enough of this aspect.
> http://tinyurl. com/9fxs39

Note the caboose built from a boxcar in the lower center; it has long
boarding steps below the side doors and laddeds to the roof alongside
the doors, with extra lateral platforms above each.

>
> New York Central Pier 7, 1948, part deux.
> http://tinyurl. com/9efcpl

Note the two trackless trolleys (trolley busses to some) on flatcats
at the lower left.

Dennis





!DSPAM:4952674b19799135038356!



Re: Other LIFE image finds

rfederle@...
 

Yes it is. Maybe not to the extent it was then but Oyster shell and others are still used. I had shells in my driveway till a few years ago and topped that with pea gravel. Those shells, when fairly fresh, tend to have an odor for a while, especially when it rains, but goes away relatively quick.

A comment was made about the Avondale Yard not having lights. Could it be they relied on hand held illumination? I recall seeing many photos of lanterns used for work as well as signalling. Just a thought.

Robert Federle
New Iberia, Louisiana
---- James Kubanick <kuban@321online.net> wrote:

That might not be ballast. When I lived in New Orleans during the early '60s, it was common practice to use shells dredged out of Lake Ponchartrain in place of gravel, which was scarce in that part of the country. The shells were very white and often used for walkways driveways, etc. They could be found everywhere in the greater New Orleans area. I wonder if this is still common practice down there.

Jim Kubanick,
Morgantown WV

----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Fertitta
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Other LIFE image finds


RE; The Avondale Yard Photo

There doesn't appear to be a 50' car anywhere in sight. Look at the cars on the leftmost RIP track that look like roofless loaded boxcars. There appears to be a (striped) steam line with a tap to the yard office (I assume) that parallels the track and ends in front of a tool shed. There is a potbelly stove out in the open between the tracks. The entire yard looks recently ballasted. At least two "economy" cabooses built on flatcars from old boxcars. Approximately 15% of the cars are tank cars. There are no floodlights for yard illumination.
(Very peculiar because I've heard it gets real dark at night in that part of Louisiana.)

Frank



--- On Wed, 12/24/08, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:

From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Other LIFE image finds
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 3:30 PM

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote:
>
> The rip track at T&NO yard in Avondale, LA in 1942.
> This image makes me think we do not model enough of this aspect.
> http://tinyurl. com/9fxs39

Note the caboose built from a boxcar in the lower center; it has long
boarding steps below the side doors and laddeds to the roof alongside
the doors, with extra lateral platforms above each.

>
> New York Central Pier 7, 1948, part deux.
> http://tinyurl. com/9efcpl

Note the two trackless trolleys (trolley busses to some) on flatcats
at the lower left.

Dennis





!DSPAM:4952674b19799135038356!



Re: Other LIFE image finds

James Kubanick <kuban@...>
 

That might not be ballast. When I lived in New Orleans during the early '60s, it was common practice to use shells dredged out of Lake Ponchartrain in place of gravel, which was scarce in that part of the country. The shells were very white and often used for walkways driveways, etc. They could be found everywhere in the greater New Orleans area. I wonder if this is still common practice down there.

Jim Kubanick,
Morgantown WV

----- Original Message -----
From: Frank Fertitta
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2008 11:45 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Other LIFE image finds


RE; The Avondale Yard Photo

There doesn't appear to be a 50' car anywhere in sight. Look at the cars on the leftmost RIP track that look like roofless loaded boxcars. There appears to be a (striped) steam line with a tap to the yard office (I assume) that parallels the track and ends in front of a tool shed. There is a potbelly stove out in the open between the tracks. The entire yard looks recently ballasted. At least two "economy" cabooses built on flatcars from old boxcars. Approximately 15% of the cars are tank cars. There are no floodlights for yard illumination.
(Very peculiar because I've heard it gets real dark at night in that part of Louisiana.)

Frank



--- On Wed, 12/24/08, Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com> wrote:

From: Dennis Storzek <destorzek@mchsi.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Other LIFE image finds
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, December 24, 2008, 3:30 PM

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Eric Hansmann" <eric@...> wrote:
>
> The rip track at T&NO yard in Avondale, LA in 1942.
> This image makes me think we do not model enough of this aspect.
> http://tinyurl. com/9fxs39

Note the caboose built from a boxcar in the lower center; it has long
boarding steps below the side doors and laddeds to the roof alongside
the doors, with extra lateral platforms above each.

>
> New York Central Pier 7, 1948, part deux.
> http://tinyurl. com/9efcpl

Note the two trackless trolleys (trolley busses to some) on flatcats
at the lower left.

Dennis





!DSPAM:4952674b19799135038356!


Railway post office

birdbiz2003 <birdbiz2003@...>
 

For a Christmas village that will be used in the office building of a
state government agency next year, I need and accurate model of an
RPO in HO scale. Car must be model of a preserved one built prior to
1956, must be accurate in size , windows and door shapes and
positions, roof parts and roof shape, if trucks are not accurate for
1951-1956 era will need manufacturer name and part number of
replacement parts. It does not matter what road the car served on.

contact me off group at birdbiz2003@yahoo.com . I will consider out of
production kits too

Sincerely,

Tyler Turpin


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

----- Original Message -----
From: drgwrail

The problem is that there are no standards for shoulder screws.

----- Original Message -----

Well, there is, ASME B18.3, but the smallest it covers is a .250 (or so)
diameter body. There may be some shoulder screws made for electrical
equipment that may be suitable.

If I wanted to replace trucks and keep the original functionality I would
find a regular screw that matched the bolster thread and use a bushing in
aftermarket trucks with holes bored out as required.

KL
Good thinking, Kurt, better than my idea. The bushing which serves the purpose of the shoulder
could just as well be plastic.

SGL


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I should have added that the listed prices are in NZ dollars. Currently;
1.00 NZD=0.573296 USD

I ordered a bunch of parts from them, but years ago. It was easy then.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

I have ordered (long time ago) from a shop called "North Yard" in NZ. They have all sorts of neat stuff including shouldered screws for trucks. Don't know if they are still around but they are/were in Auckland.
If you go here you can find NY catalog however the listing is from '07.
http://www.onlinemodels.co.nz/images/ny.pdf


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

----- Original Message -----
From: drgwrail

The problem is that there are no standards for shoulder screws.

----- Original Message -----

Well, there is, ASME B18.3, but the smallest it covers is a .250 (or so) diameter body. There may be some shoulder screws made for electrical equipment that may be suitable.

If I wanted to replace trucks and keep the original functionality I would find a regular screw that matched the bolster thread and use a bushing in aftermarket trucks with holes bored out as required.

KL


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

drgwrail
 

Should also note that the fact that the shouldered screw was stainless
steel means it probably was made for a piece of military equipment and
made to MIL specs...which really jacks up the price.

CY


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:

Thanks Schuyler however the prices are terrible. Smallest,
cheapest is
$2.33 per screw. The fact they are SS doesn't help. Makes that
original
grip about a few bucks for 6 sound cheap.
I'm looking for the type that came off that brass boxcar that the
thread
was originally about. I don't mind buying in the gross boxes but I'm
thinking more like a dime than a fiver per.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

drgwrail
 

The problem is that there are no standards for shoulder screws. Unike
regulat srews that cand be US standard, BSA, Metric, etc. Heads,
srews thereads, lengths are all covered by standards.

But every shouldered screw is made for a specific application. The
fact that some are in a catalog merely means that they are used in
some wide application. Screws such as used on brass amdels are what
ever the designer happened to happend to make or his company used as
a standard.

In all my years of mechanical desing of mechanisms and military
hardware and screw that was not a standard was only done as a last
resort. Sort of like making a non-standard pipe fitting!

Chuck Yungkurth



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee"
<schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

Thanks Schuyler however the prices are terrible. Smallest,
cheapest is
$2.33 per screw. The fact they are SS doesn't help. Makes that
original
grip about a few bucks for 6 sound cheap.
I'm looking for the type that came off that brass boxcar that the
thread
was originally about. I don't mind buying in the gross boxes but
I'm
thinking more like a dime than a fiver per.

Jon Miller
Well, suit yourself, but as you say, these are hard to find, likely
because there's not much market
for them, and that translates into their being more expensive.

An alternative is to find some brass tube the diameter of your
shoulder portion, thread the inside
to receive the screw that fits the hole and its threads, cut off a
piece of the tube that matches
the shoulder depth, and make your own.

In any event, to you and the rest of the list, Merry Christmas, and
I hope those who celebrate
Hannukah enjoy the rest of your holiday.


SGL


Re: ADMIN: Merry Christmas

rfederle@...
 

Thank you Mike and the same to you Sir. Best wishes to the rest of the group as well.

Robert Federle
---- Mike Brock <brockm@brevard.net> wrote:

Here's wishing all the members of the STMFC a very Merry Christmas and, of
course, a Happy Holiday with regard to any other holiday they care to
celebrate.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner



ADMIN: Merry Christmas

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Here's wishing all the members of the STMFC a very Merry Christmas and, of course, a Happy Holiday with regard to any other holiday they care to celebrate.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: CB&Q 40' steel gondola

Rupert & Maureen <gamlenz@...>
 

Rick

CB&Q gons 77000-80999 were built in 1907 and 1908 by Bettendorf (77000-77999 class GA-4), Barney & Smith (78000-77999, class GA-4) and Standard Steel (79000-80999, class GA-1)

Sorry, but all these cars had left the roster by 1937.

Merry Christmas, and hopefully this next year will bring you everything that you wish for.

(Perhaps it's time that the members of this Group created a proper Wish List so that Santa knows what to bring us!)

Rupert Gamlen
Auckland NZ

----- Original Message -----
From: "rdietrichson" <Rdietrichson@ec.rr.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 25, 2008 2:50 PM
Subject: [STMFC] CB&Q 40' steel gondola


Hey all,
More questions...in the August 1977, Prototype Modeler, Cyril
Durrenberger did an article on a CB&Q gon in the 77000-80999# series.
My questions are did this series of cars make it to 1951, and if so
what did the lettering and paint scheme look like?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington, NC


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Thanks Schuyler however the prices are terrible. Smallest, cheapest is
$2.33 per screw. The fact they are SS doesn't help. Makes that original
grip about a few bucks for 6 sound cheap.
I'm looking for the type that came off that brass boxcar that the thread
was originally about. I don't mind buying in the gross boxes but I'm
thinking more like a dime than a fiver per.

Jon Miller
Well, suit yourself, but as you say, these are hard to find, likely because there's not much market
for them, and that translates into their being more expensive.

An alternative is to find some brass tube the diameter of your shoulder portion, thread the inside
to receive the screw that fits the hole and its threads, cut off a piece of the tube that matches
the shoulder depth, and make your own.

In any event, to you and the rest of the list, Merry Christmas, and I hope those who celebrate
Hannukah enjoy the rest of your holiday.


SGL


CB&Q 40' steel gondola

rdietrichson
 

Hey all,
More questions...in the August 1977, Prototype Modeler, Cyril
Durrenberger did an article on a CB&Q gon in the 77000-80999# series.
My questions are did this series of cars make it to 1951, and if so
what did the lettering and paint scheme look like?
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Rick Dietrichson
Wilmington, NC


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

Thanks Schuyler however the prices are terrible. Smallest, cheapest is $2.33 per screw. The fact they are SS doesn't help. Makes that original grip about a few bucks for 6 sound cheap.
I'm looking for the type that came off that brass boxcar that the thread was originally about. I don't mind buying in the gross boxes but I'm thinking more like a dime than a fiver per.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Replacing brass trucks with plastic ones - screws?

Schuyler Larrabee
 

source for small machine and sheet metal screws in bulk<
While there are many places to buy machine screws of any size I have
never found a place to buy shouldered screws. This type of screw is used on
all brass but seems to be hard to find, either metric (preferred) or other.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Jon, I gave a hot link to McMaster Carr before. It's www.mcmastercarr.com Look there. Scroll
down and on the left you'll find "Fastening and Sealing." Look in that list and find "Shoulder
screws." I suspect you will find what you need. If not, you can contact them and they may be able
to help you.

Incidentally, the McMaster Carr catalog is roughly 2 1/2" thick, 6x9, more or less, and will
entertain you with fantasies of every mechanical tool and material you have ever thought of and a a
lot more besides. IIRC, they are free on request, or perhaps free on request with an order of a
certain value. Whatever, they're a great way to waste time.

SGL


Re: making the case for self-tapping screws

David North <davenorth@...>
 

I've had the same problem with the truck retaining screws coming

loose on styrene cars that don't have the collar for the screw to bind
against.

eg: MDC cars that don't come with one, or Athearn etc cars where I trimmed
the post

too short.



Using a self tapper runs the risk of splitting the bolster, so I choose not
to go there,

plus removal of the screw more than once or twice will create the same issue
-

each time you retighten the screw, it will turn in a fraction further
looking for the clamping point.



A while back I started using nylon screws to retain my trucks.

As they are screwed in, the thread acts like a nyloc nut and the screws stay


wherever I've screwed them to.



This allows very fine adjustment of the tighter truck of the 3 point
suspension system.

Plus the screws have a slightly larger head that fits the land on the truck
a little better IMHO.

Here is the link to the Micro Fasteners 2-56 screws I use.



http://www.microfasteners.com/catalog/products/NYLNBPP.cfm



cheers

Dave

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