Date   
Re: Metal Wheels

dalemuir2@...
 

First, plastic wheels are banned from my layout. Bowser wheelsets are plastic wheels on metal axels, and are pretty good, but I don't use them. Some train set quality plastic wheels are really bad with parting lines across the wheel tread and crooked axels.

 

I use Tangent 33 inch Semi-Scale All-Metal Precision Wheelsets (code 88 tread )for all new freight cars and as replacements in older cars. I use Tangent 36 inch Semi-Scale All-Metal Precision Wheelsets in passenger cars. These are the best I've found so far.  They very free rolling and are round and don't wobble. Buy directly from Tangent. I have not had issues with them being out of stock.

 

ExactRail wheelsets are very good, but seem to be out of stock often.

 

Tahoe Model Works offers trucks with metal wheelsets, including standard and semi-scale wheels. I have a few but don't have experience operating them at this time.

 

I tried Intermountain wheelsets years ago, but a large percentage were out-of-round to the point of being unusable. I check many of them with a dial gauge. I found that out-of-roundness over a ten-thousandth of an inch is noticeable and annoying.  Some of them were off by more than 20 thousandths. The issue seems to be with the molded plastic insulator. They might be better now, but check them carefully. Don't accept wheels that make your cars wobble.

 

I used to buy Proto 2000 wheelsets. They were very good, free rolling and not out-of-round. However, they only come in code 110, wide tread. I have many Proto 2000 freight cars that came with Proto 2000 wheelsets. I haven't found any need to change them.

 

Kadee wheelsets were the gold standard for many years. They are good quality, and don't wobble. They don't roll as well as the Tangent wheelsets because Kadee uses slippery axels, where Tangent, ExactRail, Intermountain, and Proto 2000 use metal axels. Kadee wheels can develop corrosion that manifests as a white crust over a long period of time. Kadee recently added code 88 tread semi-scale wheelsets to their line. They come in sets of 12. I didn't see an option for a bulk pack on their web site.

 

I haven't tried Jay-Bee or ReBoxx wheelsets.

 

Also, get a truck journal reamer tool. There are several brands including Micro-Mark HO Truck Tuner. I've had mine for years. They really do work.

 

Bottom line: You can't beat metal axels in slippery plastic sideframes for rolling quality.

I recommend Tangent wheelsets because they are available in semi-scale code 88 and regular code 110, are very free rolling, don't wobble, and have good availability.

 

Dale Muir

Geneva, IL

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Peter Weiglin
Sent: Saturday, August 03, 2019 5:36 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Metal Wheels

 

I have had best results with Intermountain wheelsets, purchased in boxes of 100 axles.  And yes, that can be a significant expense.  The Intermountain wheels come in 33" and 36" diameters.  Tread width is not offensive.

There are NO plastic wheels on my railroad, and operation is not impeded by dirty track.  What used to be a headache is gone.

I try not to calculate what I have spent on wheelsets over the years; best not to think about it.  Just convert as you can.

Re: Metal Wheels

Tim O'Connor
 


Kadee has not changed their wheels, but roll tests with the new HGC trucks show they perform
vastly better than the old Kadee trucks - it's now "slippery plastic on slippery plastic" instead of
"metal to plastic" contact

I'm not reluctant anymore to buy Kadee trucks, esp with .088 wheel treads. But the bolster to body
mount issue does limit their utility.

Tim O'



> I’ve personally had bad luck with kadee wheels, going back to their code 110 ones years ago, so I haven’t tried and new offerings
> Brian Carlson

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

Tim O'Connor
 


Huh. The 47 foot length made me think they were USRA gondolas. The M-15 was 40 feet right?


On 8/3/2019 3:06 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io wrote:
Nice photo Tim. Those B&O TOFCEE service "flat cars" were made by rebuilding the relatively new "1955" underframes from the M-15 wagon-tops.  They did configurations for TOFC and COFC.

Bob Witt

Attachments:



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Re: Metal Wheels

Peter Weiglin
 

I have had best results with Intermountain wheelsets, purchased in boxes of 100 axles.  And yes, that can be a significant expense.  The Intermountain wheels come in 33" and 36" diameters.  Tread width is not offensive.

There are NO plastic wheels on my railroad, and operation is not impeded by dirty track.  What used to be a headache is gone.

I try not to calculate what I have spent on wheelsets over the years; best not to think about it.  Just convert as you can.

Swift Red and White Scheme Decals

Nelson Moyer
 

Does anyone offer decals for the Swift red and white scheme reefers besides Champ HR-42? The Clover House dry transfers are for steel cars circa 1954, so the data are wrong for 2500 and 6700 series cars repainted in the red and white scheme circa 1953. A Google search was fruitless. I need three sets of decals.

 

Nelson Moyer

 

Re: Metal Wheels

Brian Carlson
 

When I converted to semi-scale wheels I went almost exclusively to Reboxx and there various axle lengths. Since their (apparent) demise I have been hoarding my remaining reboxx sets for special occasions. I really wish they were still around.

I now use a lot of intermountain semi-scale wheels in both normal and high- fidelity.

I purchased some arrowhead wheels to try but haven’t used them yet so I can’t comment.

I’ve also used tangent, branchline and exxactrail semi-scale wheels in their respective trucks.

I’ve personally had bad luck with kadee wheels, going back to their code 110 ones years ago, so I haven’t tried and new offerings.

Brian J. Carlson

Re: Metal Wheels

spsalso
 

Re: NWSL wheelsets.

I have bought only one set (38" narrow tread).  They are dramatically out of gage.

To correct that, I am awaiting a "Puller" I ordered from them in March.  They have assured me I will get it.


Ed

Edward Sutorik

Re: Metal Wheels

Tony Thompson
 

Denny, my caliper consistently finds Kadee’s at 1.020 inches. Comment?
Tony Thompson 


On Aug 3, 2019, at 12:02 PM, Denny Anspach <danspachmd@...> wrote:

Model railroad trucks are not consistent precision assemblies, and if they were, we simply could not afford them. This makes a simple question like suitable wheel replacement not so simple. For a variety of inherent design, material choice, and molding reasons, truck frames vary considerably, even from the same manufacturer or from the same lot at the same time.  This can significantly influence the choice of axle lengths and other wheel set parameters when choosing replacements.  No two trucks are really the same.

Here are some of my observations and experiences with metal wheel replacements, presuming trucks with nominal NMRA cone shaped bearing holes, and axle-ends with nominal cone-shaped NMRA dimensions:

Wheelset axle length length, axle-end diameter, and axle end/truck bearing material dissimilarity will significantly influence rolling success in any given truck.

Alone, axles roll the best when axles and bearings are of dissimilar materials. i.e. plastic axles within metal bearings, and metal axles  in plastic bearings. This is borne out in every day experience.

Alone, wheels roll the very best when the least end play is balanced to the optimal axle length, and  is tailor-fitted and matched to each individual truck type (even better to each individual truck). It is extremely common for a variety of high quality trucks to optimally roll only with respective wheel sets of varying axle lengths from 0.900” to 1.020”.  It is also common that the greatest rollability will not always  coincide with the least end play, and a compromise must be reached. 

Alone, wheel sets with two (2) millimeter axle ends seem to be consistently superior to those of fatter thickness.

Clean axle ends free of metal curls remaining from machining (usually not seen, but felt by finger pads) roll significantly better.  

In the current quality wheel set replacement  mass market (as writ in our small hobby), Kadee and Intermountain have dominated, and they have earned it with persistent high quality assurance (Kadee a bit higher than Intermountain in this regard). NWSL has had an important quality niche, not to ignore the late great Reboxx (my personal go-to for almost 15 years). I never ever personally discovered an out-of-gauge wheel set among any of them.  

I love the Kadees for their appearance and for their stellar quality and predictable and precise 1.015” axle length.  They work the very best in Kadee's own trucks, but can suffer variably because the plastic and slightly curved conical ends separately or alone will not always play well within plastic bearing holes, not to mention  cones of different shapes trying to fit and roll well one within the other. 

The Intermountain axle lengths have varied over the past few years, drifting from 1.012” down to 1.005 or 6 the last ones that I purchased and measured.  I cannot comment on those produced by their current supply source (reportedly different from their previous failed contractor). The different lengths, small as they are in reality, can make a real difference in any individual application.

Their are other new metal wheel suppliers that I have not tried, primarily because I have yet had no need; or because (irritatingly) the axle lengths are unknown.

When doing mass replacements, a lot of the above may be far too fussy, but they can perhaps serve as a guide.  Doug Harding’s suggestions as to Intermountain wheel sets would  be a good place to start.  

P.S. Lastly, although it has been heavily promoted over the years, and on occasion I have found it very useful, generally I have otherwise found cause for routinely using a reaming tool to improve observable rollability.  

Denny

  




Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864



Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

rwitt_2000
 

Nice photo Tim. Those B&O TOFCEE service "flat cars" were made by rebuilding the relatively new "1955" underframes from the M-15 wagon-tops.  They did configurations for TOFC and COFC.

Bob Witt

Re: Metal Wheels

Denny Anspach
 

Model railroad trucks are not consistent precision assemblies, and if they were, we simply could not afford them. This makes a simple question like suitable wheel replacement not so simple. For a variety of inherent design, material choice, and molding reasons, truck frames vary considerably, even from the same manufacturer or from the same lot at the same time.  This can significantly influence the choice of axle lengths and other wheel set parameters when choosing replacements.  No two trucks are really the same.

Here are some of my observations and experiences with metal wheel replacements, presuming trucks with nominal NMRA cone shaped bearing holes, and axle-ends with nominal cone-shaped NMRA dimensions:

Wheelset axle length length, axle-end diameter, and axle end/truck bearing material dissimilarity will significantly influence rolling success in any given truck.

Alone, axles roll the best when axles and bearings are of dissimilar materials. i.e. plastic axles within metal bearings, and metal axles  in plastic bearings. This is borne out in every day experience.

Alone, wheels roll the very best when the least end play is balanced to the optimal axle length, and  is tailor-fitted and matched to each individual truck type (even better to each individual truck). It is extremely common for a variety of high quality trucks to optimally roll only with respective wheel sets of varying axle lengths from 0.900” to 1.020”.  It is also common that the greatest rollability will not always  coincide with the least end play, and a compromise must be reached. 

Alone, wheel sets with two (2) millimeter axle ends seem to be consistently superior to those of fatter thickness.

Clean axle ends free of metal curls remaining from machining (usually not seen, but felt by finger pads) roll significantly better.  

In the current quality wheel set replacement  mass market (as writ in our small hobby), Kadee and Intermountain have dominated, and they have earned it with persistent high quality assurance (Kadee a bit higher than Intermountain in this regard). NWSL has had an important quality niche, not to ignore the late great Reboxx (my personal go-to for almost 15 years). I never ever personally discovered an out-of-gauge wheel set among any of them.  

I love the Kadees for their appearance and for their stellar quality and predictable and precise 1.015” axle length.  They work the very best in Kadee's own trucks, but can suffer variably because the plastic and slightly curved conical ends separately or alone will not always play well within plastic bearing holes, not to mention  cones of different shapes trying to fit and roll well one within the other. 

The Intermountain axle lengths have varied over the past few years, drifting from 1.012” down to 1.005 or 6 the last ones that I purchased and measured.  I cannot comment on those produced by their current supply source (reportedly different from their previous failed contractor). The different lengths, small as they are in reality, can make a real difference in any individual application.

Their are other new metal wheel suppliers that I have not tried, primarily because I have yet had no need; or because (irritatingly) the axle lengths are unknown.

When doing mass replacements, a lot of the above may be far too fussy, but they can perhaps serve as a guide.  Doug Harding’s suggestions as to Intermountain wheel sets would  be a good place to start.  

P.S. Lastly, although it has been heavily promoted over the years, and on occasion I have found it very useful, generally I have otherwise found cause for routinely using a reaming tool to improve observable rollability.  

Denny

  




Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, CA 95864



Nuckolls Packing

James SANDIFER
 

Pueblo, CO, was home to Nuckolls Packing. Does anyone have photos of their meat reefers they can share?

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

Re: Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

gary laakso
 

Yes, the Railway Prototype Cyclopedia, Vol 6 has a color photo with the new
trucks in 1955 and still in passenger service and notes that the truck
replacements occurred from 1946 to 1952.

Gary Laakso
Northwest of Mike Brock

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Rod
Miller
Sent: Saturday, August 3, 2019 10:29 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

On 8/3/19 10:21 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

After the ban on the Allied trucks, were these applied soon after?



On 8/3/2019 11:38 AM, gary laakso wrote:

It is shown in 1946 outside of Ogden, UT, still with its Allied Full
Cushion
Trucks:

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1946-Ogden/i-VG
5DH3V/A

Gary Laakso

--
/*Tim O'Connor*/
/*Sterling, Massachusetts*/
The car appears to have been demoted from passenger service.
No signal line and steam connections.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com

Re: Metal Wheels

Pierre Oliver
 

Rapids offers a all metal semi scale wheel set that is perfect for TMW trucks among many others
Pierre Oliver
www.elgincarshops.com
www.yarmouthmodelworks.com

On Aug 3, 2019, at 1:12 PM, Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor> wrote:


Make friends with someone who can get you a deep discount :-) and buy
wheels in BULK.

My club for many years ordered wholesale quantities of cars and parts
from vendors at wholesale prices, so club members got deep discounts.
I'm sure we're not unique.



On 8/3/2019 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner wrote:
Hello Group,
I would like to replace most if not all of my plastic wheels , and change out for metal. For starters I have over 100 hoppers. That is 400 wheels. Would like to hear recommendations of what other members have done. Thanks,Barry

--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

Rod Miller
 

On 8/3/19 10:21 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
After the ban on the Allied trucks, were these applied soon after?
On 8/3/2019 11:38 AM, gary laakso wrote:

It is shown in 1946 outside of Ogden, UT, still with its Allied Full Cushion Trucks:

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1946-Ogden/i-VG5DH3V/A

Gary Laakso

--
/*Tim O'Connor*/
/*Sterling, Massachusetts*/
The car appears to have been demoted from passenger service.
No signal line and steam connections.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com

Re: Metal Wheels

Rod Miller
 

On 8/3/19 10:12 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Make friends with someone who can get you a deep discount :-) and buy
wheels in BULK.
My club for many years ordered wholesale quantities of cars and parts
from vendors at wholesale prices, so club members got deep discounts.
I'm sure we're not unique.
On 8/3/2019 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner wrote:
Hello Group,
      I would like to replace most if not all of my plastic wheels , and change out for metal. For starters I have over 100 hoppers. That is 400 wheels. Would like to hear recommendations of what other members have done. Thanks,Barry
Being a 2-rail O scale modeler, I don't know a lot about HO
trucks. In O you have to be careful because different mfrs
trucks use different axle lengths. So I recommend that before
you buy hundreds of axles that you test the candidate axles
on a few cars. Hopefully all cars have the same trucks.

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com

Re: Omaha Road Express Boxcar near Ogden, UT

Tim O'Connor
 


After the ban on the Allied trucks, were these applied soon after?



On 8/3/2019 11:38 AM, gary laakso wrote:

It is shown in 1946 outside of Ogden, UT, still with its Allied Full Cushion Trucks:

 

https://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/Emil-Albrecht-Photos/1946-Ogden/i-VG5DH3V/A 

 

Gary Laakso



--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts

Roommate wanted for Lisle RPM meet.

Jared Harper
 

I am looking for someone to share a room at the Lisle RPM meet in October.  Any takers?

Jared Harper
Athens, GA

Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

Penny Simunic
 

Has anyone tried a kit from model tech studios?
Just purchased a soda fountain kit with no instructions.
Do I treat it as a resin or plastic for painting?
Thanks in advance.
RonS

Re: Metal Wheels

Tim O'Connor
 

Make friends with someone who can get you a deep discount :-) and buy
wheels in BULK.

My club for many years ordered wholesale quantities of cars and parts
from vendors at wholesale prices, so club members got deep discounts.
I'm sure we're not unique.

On 8/3/2019 10:44 AM, Barry Kenner wrote:
Hello Group,
      I would like to replace most if not all of my plastic wheels , and change out for metal. For starters I have over 100 hoppers. That is 400 wheels. Would like to hear recommendations of what other members have done. Thanks,Barry
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*

Re: Gondolas converted into TOFC cars

Tim O'Connor
 


How about this one?



On 8/2/2019 9:48 PM, rwitt_2000 via Groups.Io wrote:
Another RI  one.


The B&O did COFC using the O-27 gondola. I have a diagram, but no photo.

Bob Witt

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts