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Re: Prototype info on labels, was the hijacked thread RE: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

Dennis Storzek
 

On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 02:09 PM, Bill Welch wrote:
I suggest people wanting this kind of labeling put their financial resources together, purchase one of the manufacturers or start a new company labeling their models and kits with that information and see how it goes.

Bill Welch
Where is the LIKE button when I need it?

Dennis Storzek
Re: Shrink wrap

Jeff
 

This might be essentially the same problem, but heat shrink tubing comes in pretty big sizes - and colors. 


On Mon, Mar 9, 2020 at 2:12 PM Richard Townsend via Groups.Io <richtownsend=netscape.net@groups.io> wrote:
I have a more or less cylindrical styrene item, but with compound curves, that I want to wrap snugly (not like a draped tarp) for use as a flatcar load. I've thought about shrink wrap, but I am concerned about the heat melting the item. Does anyone have any experience with using shrink wrap over a styrene item? Can anyone suggest an alternative?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR




--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.
Shrink wrap

Richard Townsend
 

I have a more or less cylindrical styrene item, but with compound curves, that I want to wrap snugly (not like a draped tarp) for use as a flatcar load. I've thought about shrink wrap, but I am concerned about the heat melting the item. Does anyone have any experience with using shrink wrap over a styrene item? Can anyone suggest an alternative?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR
Re: Prototype info on labels, was the hijacked thread RE: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

Bill Welch
 

I suggest people wanting this kind of labeling put their financial resources together, purchase one of the manufacturers or start a new company labeling their models and kits with that information and see how it goes.

Bill Welch
Re: Prototype info on labels, was the hijacked thread RE: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Yes, Tom, we did have this conversation, and that was the general conclusion.  But I’ve thought about this for quite a while, and I believe that it works both ways.  IF a manufacturer puts that information on the box and it fulfills my desires, I am definitely GOING TO BUY it, not in the least because they have provided the information.  What I mean by that is I would support the manufacturer for having provided the information even if I might have only limited use for the model on my railroad.

 

I also think it’s worth having this conversation periodically to make it clear to the manufacturers that we (admittedly small market segment) really want this information.

 

I don’t mean to waste time and list resources, but still . . .

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2020 3:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: Prototype info on labels, was the hijacked thread RE: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

 

I thought we discussed this some time ago and concluded that no manufacturer will willingly include information that would give customers a reason to not buy his products. 

Tom Madden

Re: Prototype info on labels, was the hijacked thread RE: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

Tom Madden
 

I thought we discussed this some time ago and concluded that no manufacturer will willingly include information that would give customers a reason to not buy his products. 

Tom Madden
Prototype info on labels, was the hijacked thread RE: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

Schuyler Larrabee
 

For what a lot of us want to know . . . it could be much simpler for the manufacturer.

 

“Verified prototype car and paint scheme, 1948 photo” 

 

Still up to the buyer to establish the earliest date, unless the photo when located shows and earlier BLT date, but at least there’s one data point shown.

 

Foobies wouldn’t be labeled this way.

 

Schuyler

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Jeff
Sent: Monday, March 09, 2020 12:44 PM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

 

Yeah, I can see how it would be a royal pain to try and label stuff up... I can almost see the checkboxes:

Built date: 

Repaint Date:

(re)Weigh date:

ACI: Y/N

U-1: Y/N  

COTS: Y/N 

Consp. Stripe: Y/N

 - and that's just for a car built in or after the 60s. 

 

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 1:07 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-

As a lifelong Model Railroader who now has spent a longer time than my first  in my second career (25 years and counting) in the Model Railroad Industry, I’ve heard the comment about labeling era on product for years.

Having worked in R&D for a number of importer/manufacturers I know how difficult it is to assemble and digest the information on the myriad range of eras, railroads, road numbers, paint schemes and variations thereof to make the product in the first place and would not care to try to distill that onto a label that will protect the consumer from making catastrophic wrong purchase decisions.  And that assumes that within the company hierarchy the marketing people in charge of putting together packaging and advertising actually listen to the R&D people in the first place.

The problem as I see it is that the people who care about freight cars (this group representing a large percentage of them) likely would know better or how to determine the approximate dates that a given car or paint scheme would be running the part of the rail network that they are interested in. 

I think it is better to let the consumer educate themselves to the level that they need….I could see hours of additional research on every product number to try to determine if AB&C #143233 in the mauve scheme ran under that number in that paint job with the particular stenciling applied…..if such information can even be had.   Would such information on a product cause people to buy more or give them an excuse not to make a purchase?   What would be next…..rejecting product as being “out of era” because COTS stenciling on brake equipment or reweigh dates are out of range?  

Yes, a few of us model on a tight range of dates (or even ONE day…Hi Jack!!) and those likely don’t wait for the label to say its okay to buy something….they do the work and justify the purchase within their own guidelines.

I just hope that California doesn’t get the idea that this needs their protection.   When I was at Kato we spent days on adding the legal notice to packaging because the brass used in flywheels contained a very small percentage of lead to make it machinable which was a big threat to the denizens of the Golden State who apparently eat their trains or throw them away in leaching landfills.

Charlie Vlk

   

 


 

--

Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.
Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Brian Carlson
 

For our era you only really need build date and paint date.  Same as what Branchline provided. 

But I understand that we’re in the minority. At an open house yesterday I saw an UP diesel pulling a 5 car well stack, 3 Athearn triple dome tank cars, 2 40 ft Athearn steam cars boxcars and a center beam flat. I cringed but the owner was happy. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Mar 9, 2020, at 12:44 PM, Jeff <jeffshultz@...> wrote:


Yeah, I can see how it would be a royal pain to try and label stuff up... I can almost see the checkboxes:
Built date: 
Repaint Date:
(re)Weigh date:
ACI: Y/N
U-1: Y/N  
COTS: Y/N 
Consp. Stripe: Y/N
 - and that's just for a car built in or after the 60s. 

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 1:07 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-
Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Jeff
 

Yeah, I can see how it would be a royal pain to try and label stuff up... I can almost see the checkboxes:
Built date: 
Repaint Date:
(re)Weigh date:
ACI: Y/N
U-1: Y/N  
COTS: Y/N 
Consp. Stripe: Y/N
 - and that's just for a car built in or after the 60s. 

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020 at 1:07 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-

As a lifelong Model Railroader who now has spent a longer time than my first  in my second career (25 years and counting) in the Model Railroad Industry, I’ve heard the comment about labeling era on product for years.

Having worked in R&D for a number of importer/manufacturers I know how difficult it is to assemble and digest the information on the myriad range of eras, railroads, road numbers, paint schemes and variations thereof to make the product in the first place and would not care to try to distill that onto a label that will protect the consumer from making catastrophic wrong purchase decisions.  And that assumes that within the company hierarchy the marketing people in charge of putting together packaging and advertising actually listen to the R&D people in the first place.

The problem as I see it is that the people who care about freight cars (this group representing a large percentage of them) likely would know better or how to determine the approximate dates that a given car or paint scheme would be running the part of the rail network that they are interested in. 

I think it is better to let the consumer educate themselves to the level that they need….I could see hours of additional research on every product number to try to determine if AB&C #143233 in the mauve scheme ran under that number in that paint job with the particular stenciling applied…..if such information can even be had.   Would such information on a product cause people to buy more or give them an excuse not to make a purchase?   What would be next…..rejecting product as being “out of era” because COTS stenciling on brake equipment or reweigh dates are out of range?  

Yes, a few of us model on a tight range of dates (or even ONE day…Hi Jack!!) and those likely don’t wait for the label to say its okay to buy something….they do the work and justify the purchase within their own guidelines.

I just hope that California doesn’t get the idea that this needs their protection.   When I was at Kato we spent days on adding the legal notice to packaging because the brass used in flywheels contained a very small percentage of lead to make it machinable which was a big threat to the denizens of the Golden State who apparently eat their trains or throw them away in leaching landfills.

Charlie Vlk

   

 



--
Jeff Shultz
http://www.shultzinfosystems.com
A railfan approaches a grade crossing hoping that there will be a train.
Re: MEK...was Consumer Warning Labels

Jack Burgess
 

Our hardware store had a MEK substitute but I read that it didn’t work on styrene like MEK…

 

Jack Burgess

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of Mont Switzer
Sent: Monday, March 9, 2020 5:21 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

 

Tom and all,

 

I have had a similar experience with MEK.  My local hardware store (now gone) was nice enough to special order MEK for me, but I had to take a full case consisting of four 1 gallon cans.  I’m still on the first can which lives in my garage.

 

I have a standing offer with all local friends.  FREE MEK.  Bring your own tight seal jar.

 

Last time I was through the big box store I saw that they now have MEK in 1 quart containers.  That was not the case 15-20 years ago.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 5:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

 

When my employer closed down my prototype printed circuit lab in 1992 I liberated a 3/4 full gallon jug of MEK that was slated for disposal. I've only used it occasionally since I began resin casting, but it's still good 28 years later with minimal evaporation loss. It's in a glass jug with a lined plastic screw cap in our unheated garage.

Tom Madden

Re: B&LE 82000 series box cars

Edward
 

I think you mean a 100,000 lb. capacity car at 50 tons for a double sheathed box car of the early 1940's, not a car having a 100 ton (200,000 lbs.) capacity.
Ed Bommer 
Tank Car CLCX 206 1926 +/-

Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...>
 

Tank Car CLCX 206 circa 1926, possibly Grand Forks, ND

-Hudson
Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Mont Switzer
 

Tom and all,

 

I have had a similar experience with MEK.  My local hardware store (now gone) was nice enough to special order MEK for me, but I had to take a full case consisting of four 1 gallon cans.  I’m still on the first can which lives in my garage.

 

I have a standing offer with all local friends.  FREE MEK.  Bring your own tight seal jar.

 

Last time I was through the big box store I saw that they now have MEK in 1 quart containers.  That was not the case 15-20 years ago.

 

Mont

 

Montford L. Switzer

President

Switzer Tank Lines, Inc.

Fall Creek Leasing, LLC.

mswitzer@...

(765) 836-2914

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Tom Madden via Groups.Io
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 5:53 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

 

When my employer closed down my prototype printed circuit lab in 1992 I liberated a 3/4 full gallon jug of MEK that was slated for disposal. I've only used it occasionally since I began resin casting, but it's still good 28 years later with minimal evaporation loss. It's in a glass jug with a lined plastic screw cap in our unheated garage.

Tom Madden

Re: [Plastic Freight Car Builders], [Model Railroad], [Model Railway], [Plastic Model Railroad Freight Car Builders] Great Northern Flat Car 69958

O Fenton Wells
 

Well done Lester, finished product is very nice
Fenton 


On Mar 8, 2020, at 8:41 PM, James E Kubanick <jekuban@...> wrote:


Lester,

Another very nice build. I do enjoy reading your blogs as they are full of very usable techniques that are useful in my own projects.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 10:25:27 PM EST, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:


Great job, Lester.  For those with a copy of November-December, 1978 Northwestern Prototype Modeler, pages 12 and 12 feature an article by our own Steffan Ehnbom on kit bashing this class flatcar by using an AHM flatcar.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@PlasticFreightCarBuiilders.groups.io <main@PlasticFreightCarBuiilders.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 5:13 PM
To: main@PlasticFreightCarBuiilders.groups.io
Subject: [Plastic Freight Car Builders], [Model Railroad], [Model Railway], [Plastic Model Railroad Freight Car Builders] Great Northern Flat Car 69958

 

I have completed the build of Great Northern Flat Car 69958, class FM.  If you are interested in the build of this car including addition of details not in the kit, photos and writeup of the build process including paint and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer
Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Bob Chaparro
 

MEK and several other chemicals thought to be banned in California are still available, but not in the smaller consumer-size containers. The approach is that industrial and commercial users are more observant of fume control and proper disposal than household users.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA
Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Rod Miller
 

On 3/7/20 2:03 PM, Hudson Leighton wrote:
If I ever go into the model train business, my labels are going to say:
"It is  Illegal to possess, purchase, sell or transfer this product in the State of California."
-Hudson
Now if California could come up with a foolproof (there's the rub) way to receive money from those who make fun of it, all CA taxes could be
done away with. 8-)

--
Rod Miller
Handcraftsman
===
Custom 2-rail O Scale Models: Drives,
Repairs, Steam Loco Building, More
http://www.rodmiller.com
Re: [Plastic Freight Car Builders], [Model Railroad], [Model Railway], [Plastic Model Railroad Freight Car Builders] Great Northern Flat Car 69958

James E Kubanick
 

Lester,

Another very nice build. I do enjoy reading your blogs as they are full of very usable techniques that are useful in my own projects.

Jim Kubanick
Morgantown WV

On Saturday, March 7, 2020, 10:25:27 PM EST, gary laakso <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:


Great job, Lester.  For those with a copy of November-December, 1978 Northwestern Prototype Modeler, pages 12 and 12 feature an article by our own Steffan Ehnbom on kit bashing this class flatcar by using an AHM flatcar.

 

Gary Laakso

 

From: main@PlasticFreightCarBuiilders.groups.io <main@PlasticFreightCarBuiilders.groups.io> On Behalf Of Lester Breuer
Sent: Saturday, March 7, 2020 5:13 PM
To: main@PlasticFreightCarBuiilders.groups.io
Subject: [Plastic Freight Car Builders], [Model Railroad], [Model Railway], [Plastic Model Railroad Freight Car Builders] Great Northern Flat Car 69958

 

I have completed the build of Great Northern Flat Car 69958, class FM.  If you are interested in the build of this car including addition of details not in the kit, photos and writeup of the build process including paint and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer
Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Nelson Moyer
 

I guess all cans aren’t created equal. The cap on my Sunnyside MEK let the MEK out very slowly, despite being tight. I haven’t had that problem with acetone or lacquer thinner.

I’ll decant the next can into a glass chemical bottle with a neoprene lined plastic cap.

Nelson Moyer

On Mar 8, 2020, at 2:41 PM, Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com> wrote:

I keep the MEK in the original metal cans and decanter a small amount into a
plastic bottle (it has been proven to not evaporate from it) and then use it
to put a 1/8" of so in my plastic dispenser (which does evaporate over
time).

Jack Burgess

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Nelson Moyer
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 9:26 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

Hope you protected your MEK from evaporation. I bought a quart and decanted
an ounce into a repurposed paint bottle. A couple of year later when I
needed to refill the bottle, I found the can half full. The cap was tight,
but I still had evaporative loss.

Nelson Moyer

On Mar 8, 2020, at 9:19 AM, Jack Burgess <jack@yosemitevalleyrr.com>
wrote:

Actually, MEK isn't illegal in California. I suspect that buyers were
using
if when other products were available. I've heard that it is still
available
in places that sell automobile paint.

I bought two gallons of MEK before it was no longer available...I didn't
want to run out!

Jack

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf
Of Matthew Hurst
Sent: Sunday, March 8, 2020 9:07 AM
To: Jon Miller
Cc: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Consumer Warning Labels

Well... true.

You want me to smuggle some in to you? Hmm?

Matthew Hurst








Siems Stembel - was Standard Steel Drawing List

Bob Webber
 

Hi, Dennis - given the day, I decided to go to the Library, bring a bunch of "used" tubes back to the reefer, and along with some specific tubes, I brought back 1 Siems tube.   A Soo Box, & Gon, NP flat, MILW gon, a GN stock and some other "stuff". 

Was there something specific you might be interested in (no, I don't have specifics yet, we'll scan the tube on Wednesday, and it will be added to the SSC folder)?




At 01:33 PM 1/24/2020, Dennis Storzek wrote:
I only see four drawings listed for the Soo Line, searching both by common name and corporate initials. This isn't surprising, as the Soo bought very little from SSC, but begs the question, is Siems Stembel production included in the SSC list?

Dennis
_._,_._,_

Bob Webber

Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Tom Madden
 

When my employer closed down my prototype printed circuit lab in 1992 I liberated a 3/4 full gallon jug of MEK that was slated for disposal. I've only used it occasionally since I began resin casting, but it's still good 28 years later with minimal evaporation loss. It's in a glass jug with a lined plastic screw cap in our unheated garage.

Tom Madden
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