Date   

Re: Plastic model paint

Charles Hladik
 

Michael,
I have have had good luck using Plaid Paint Company products. If you
paint the car gray, let it dry, slop on a product called "Krinkle Medium" and
let it dry about 20-25 minutes, then paint over this with say a freight car
color, let dry. The crinkling will begin almost immediately. Haven't tried it on
rolling stock but it works great for structures.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 12/9/2008 6:46:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
goldrod_1@yahoo.com writes:




In my junk box I found a couple old Atlas woodside box cars, by today
standards are not that great of a car. I want to painted to look like
they a dried out unpainted cars that are sitting on the ground in a lot
of sometype. What is a gound paint to use to get this effect?

Michael Bishop




**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
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Re: Box car running boards...painted or not?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Lots of very informative messages regarding wood and its painting or not painting.

However...believing firmly that the "proof of the puddin' is in the eatin'", the photo on the cover of May 1992 MM by Delano definitely indicates that the running boards of box cars in 1942 [ I think ] were of the same color as the roofs of cars belonging to C&NW, M&STL, Monon, SR, PR, UP, MIL, and PE...among others. In some cases...the M&STL for one...the running board appears to be a bit darker than the roof. At any rate, whether these running boards were brush painted, air brush painted, dipped, stained or had children finger paint them seems to be less important to the modeler...as opposed to the historian...who only wants to create an impression that matches what is visible...IMO. As a matter of fact, the reason for the question had to do with construction and painting of an MK&T SS box car...painted [ apparently <G> ] in yellow. I mean...everything yellow BUT the running board? Hmmm. Unfortunately such a car is no where to be seen in Proviso that day. It IS, BTW, interesting to note the very different shades of box/frt car red on the C&NW cars...including the roofs and running boards. Hmmm. Even the rails have different colorations.

Mike Brock


Re: Southern War Emergency Gon

al_brown03
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Al, any info on Southern 292000-292549 ?

Tim O'Connor
'Fraid I dunno anything about that series.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Santa Fe Sk.L stock car interior color

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
Unpainted wood makes sense on the inside of a stock car, when you consider that the animals in the car might gnaw at the paint. Lead paint residue is not the kind of thing that one wants in meat.
Valid observation, though in the short time traveling to market, the ingestion/retention of lead would certainly be very slight. And remember that in the era of our list, lead paint wasn't forbidden in homes, etc. Personally, I would doubt that the lead would have been a basis for unpainted stock car interiors prior to 1960.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Box car floor boards (was running boards...painted or not?)

rfederle@...
 

Since I was not there at that time period, slippery walking surfaces due to paint applications could be remedied by applying a film of sand to the wet top coat to aide traction. Sand was plentiful.

Robert Federle
---- Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@yahoo.ca> wrote:

Ed--

Excellent information. In the abscence of such info from other
builders, I have to wonder if the standards cited in this bill of
material might have been those used by most car builders. But the
citing of a Southern Pacific order also makes me wonder also if the
paintwork was done by P-S in accordance with SP's "Common Standard"
used by that road. As for the car lumber itself, was this not an AAR
standard?

Painting running boards once with thinned paint may have had a
purpose. Running boards painted with multiple coats of paint would
be slippery during wet weather. A trainman slipping on a such a
surface and consequently being seriously injured might justifiably be
inclined to sue the railroad under the US Federal Employers Liability
Act (FELA) of 1908. It would be argued in court (and probably
successfully) that the railroad CREATED the hazard that caused the
employee's injury.

So the use of one thinned coat of paint on running boards would be a
compromise that would impart some weather protection to the wood
running boards on account of the thinned paint penetrating through
the wood surface, yet not make the boards slippery when wet?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

Tim,
Out of curiosity I pulled out a random Pullman-Standard bill of
material for a series of box cars to see what it specified for
interior
decking and running boards. This happens to apply to two P-S lot
numbers 5537 and 5549, 1937 AAR box cars built in 1936 for Southern
Pacific, series 32770-33269 and 37840-38089, respectively.

On a per car basis, decking was comprised of 96 boards made of
Douglas
Fir, Vertical Grain, Close Grain, Free from Heart, and Edges Clear
of
Knots. Of the total, 94 were Tongue & Groove 1-3/4" x 5-1/16" x 9'-
8
1/4". The other two were 2-1/16" x 5-1/2" x 9'-8 1/4" with one
board
being tongue only and the other being groove only. Layout to
conform to
P-S drawing 512-C-51.

Running boards were also Vertical Grain Douglas Fir (9 boards for
the
longitudinals and 14 for the latitudinals. All boards were 1-1/8" x
5-3/4". The lengths of the longitudinals varied with 3 being 17'-
1", 3
being 14'-3 1/2", and 3 being 10'-10 1/2". The latitudinals were
all
2'-1" long.

There is nothing in the lumber section that says anything about any
type of wood coatings or preservatives.

Quoting from the section entitled Painting.

Application: All paint colors must be furnished by the car builder
and
must conform to the shade with sample colors shown in specification
CS-22. All paints must conform with specification CS-22. All paints
must be applied in perfectly even coats to both wood and metal
surfaces. Paint must not be applied in temperature below 40 degrees
Fahrenheit. Paint may be applied either by brushed or by spraying,
if
done in a workmanlike manner. Inspectors must see that paints are
not
thinned down beyond their specified consistencies to permit of more
rapid application. The use of benzine or other inferior cutting
agencies will not be permitted.

Trucks: All parts of trucks, except wheels and axles must receive
two
coats of metallic paint No. 11 to be of the same consistency as the
two
coats of metallic paint for car body and be stenciled in white lead
in
accordance with drawings showing "Lettering" with initials of road
and
number on side of each truck which faces toward the end of car.

Underframe and Body: Underframe and body must be thoroughly cleaned
and
free from rust and grease before painting is begun. All joints
where
metal laps on metal must be given a thick coating of No. 1
Continental
Car Cement or approved equivalent before being riveted up. This
also
applies to wood parts which come in contact with metal. Body of car
(outside and inside metal surfaces including inside of roof) and
underframe must receive a priming coat of read lead in oil No. 19-A
with two coats of metallic paint No. 11 on outside of body and
underframe, and one coat of metallic paint No. 11 on inside of
metal
surfaces (including inside of roof) reduced as shown below. Apply a
good priming coat of red lead in oil No. 19-A to both inside and
outside of metal surfaces of body including inside of roof and to
underframe. This coat must be thoroughly well brushed in or sprayed
on
and then thoroughly well brushed in after spraying. Allow twelve
hours
for drying. Paint for the second outside coat shall be reduced with
1/2
gallon of boiled linseed oil, 1/8 gallon of turpentine substitute,
and
1/8 gallon Japan dryer to one gallon of No. 11. Allow twelve hours
for
drying. Paint for the third outside coat shall be reduced with one
gallon of boiled linseed oil, 1/8 gallon of turpentine substitute
and
1/8 gallon of Japan dryer to one gallon of No. 11. Allow twelve
hours
for drying. Paint for the second inside coat, which is applied to
all
inside metal surfaces including inside of roof, should be metallic
paint No. 11 and of the same consistency as the first outside body
coat. This coat should be applied before the lining and nailing
strips
are installed in the car. Allow twelve hours for drying.

Stenciling, Lettering and Numbering: All stenciling on outside of
car
must be done with white lead in oil, No. 12, in such a manner that
all
letters and figures are perfectly white. Location of all stenciling
must be in accordance with drawing showing "Lettering" and letters
and
figures must be in strict accordance with those shown on the
drawing.

Roof: Outside of roof must receive one coat of No. 1 Continental
Car
Cement or approved equivalent, sprayed on evenly to at least 1/32"
in
thickness, and as prescribed by the cement manufacturer. This coat
should be applied before outside body receives the two coats of
metallic paint No. 11 and before the running boards are applied.
The
outside surface of roof must be washed with clear water to remove
grease and dirt. If galvanized steel roof is applied, the
galvanized
surfaces after being washed must be coated with a solution of
Oxalic
Acid in proportion of 1/2 pint acid to one gallon of water: allow
to
dry and dust off.

Running Boards: Running boards must be given one coat of metallic
paint
No. 11 when third body coat is applied and of same consistency.

While this is just one example, I hope it helps shed some light on
box
car painting practices. Note that while the running boards received
a
single coat of metallic No. 11 paint, it was a coat that had been
substantially thinned. Regarding the bottom of the floor boards, my
interpretation is that they weren't specified to be painted, but
they
may well have received some overspray of red lead primer and
metallic
No. 11 paint.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins



Re: Santa Fe Sk.L stock car interior color

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

You make a good point, Al,

About the need to paint the metal floor. Ellington's book does have an interior photo of car 55807, an earlier Caswell stock car of class Sk-K. It's identified as being from a 1919 Car Builder's Cyc, and in that photo the upper surfaces of the drop door and the flat sections above the center sill and cross members are a light color. Whether painted that way or not yet painted I wouldn't want to guess.

Of course, when the cars were used in coke service, we can imagine what happened to the light-colored interiors.

I've seen some well-weathered Santa Fe stock cars, in person and in photos, and they usually don't show any signs of the white spray you mention. The color photo on the cover of Ellington's book shows an Sk-3 with almost all the paint missing from the wood parts, and the metal parts in a faded Mineral Brown. That's typical of cars I saw myself, and probably of most Santa Fe stock cars that survived through the 1960s, though probably not of earlier times.

On my own stock car models, none of which I've done with open doors, I haven't worried about painting the interior at all, except for a coat of flat black on the lead weight.

So long,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Box car running boards...painted or not?

np328
 

I have heard of this also. I had a prof. at UM-Duluth talk in a
class I had about while, gathering information for a logging book on
northern Minnesota, he drove around the north woods and saw all the
unpainted houses thinking that these people were so poor they could
not even afford to paint their house.
He commented that to another professor and got the testy reply
that "it had nothing to do with money, that once you paint wood you
must keep painting the wood, however if you do not, the natural
oils come out to protect the wood and it lasts quite long". The
houses weather to that silver grey Dennis commented on. I would
also agree with Dennis that I would not try this with the pushed
wood found today.
Jim Dick - St. Paul

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Harding" <dharding@...> wrote:
A little off topic, but the "True Inspirationalists" of Amana Colony
fame in Iowa (and no they are not Amish) left their barns and
other out buildings unpainted. They found the wood lasted just as
long whether it was painted or not. Painting buildings was
determined to be a waste of time and money, so it was not done by the
colony.

Could it be railroads determined the same with freight car floors?

Doug Harding www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Interlocker Car

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary roe" <wabashrr@...> wrote:

I realize this question is coming from an era way before most of us
model; but I ran across something I had never heard of before, and
thought I'd run it past you all.

In looking at a listing of freight car equipment for the Wabash
Railroad from 1914, back in the back under Company Service Cars, there
is a listing for 35 "Interlocker Cars". There are no dimensions or
any other data associated with the listing. What is an Interlocker
Car, and/or what it is used for?

gary roe
quincy, illinois
Hmmmm… No one took a stab at this, so I guess I will.

An "interlocker" was the employee responsible for maintaining
interlocking plants. When I worked for the Chicago Transit Authority
back in the seventies, our signalmen were still universally called
"interlockers".

I suspect the "interlocker cars" were simply camp or tool cars
specifically assigned to the signal department; they may have been
special in that they were set up to support a small gang, with part of
the car living space and the rest workbench / tool storage.

Dennis


Sunshine Kits For Sale

ATSF1226
 

Hi Folks,
I've got 5 Sunshine Kits I would like to sell. Please contact off list
for info and prices.

George A Walls


Re: Southern War Emergency Gon

Michael Aufderheide
 

Thank you Al,

I will look up the article.  I think the addition of the door brackets below with some strip brass would be easy.  This will be a fun project.  This car is on F&Cs list of $13 bagged kits.

Mike Aufderheide

--- On Tue, 12/9/08, al_brown03 <abrown@fit.edu> wrote:
From: al_brown03 <abrown@fit.edu>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Southern War Emergency Gon
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, December 9, 2008, 7:35 AM











The Southern's cars, series 286000-286999 (per ORER), differed from

other 41ft War Emergency gons in having six drop doors (class GA).

Other owners were Texas & New Orleans, ACL, Midland Valley, Wabash;

Alton got all-steel versions, which went to GM&O. Info from Lofton,

MM 1/92, pp 20-24.



Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Mike Aufderheide <mononinmonon@ ...>

wrote:

All,
 
See:
 
http://steamfreight cars.com/ prototype/ catalog/mvcmc/ mvcmcp21main. html

 
This interesting photo of a Southern gon in Jeff Koeller's Mt.
Vernon catalog led me to wonder if these cars are the same as those

offered by Funaro:

 
http://www.walthers .com/exec/ productinfo/ 279-6260
 
It would be an interesting variation on the steel gons I have from
Sunshine & Speedwitch.  Does anyone have a roster of the 41ft war

emergency gons?

 
Regards,
 
Mike Aufderheide
 
 
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Box car floor boards (was running boards...painted or not?)

Bruce Smith
 

Steve,

I would be very very careful about implying that the third coat as described in Ed's message was necessarily a "thinner" paint than the first two coats. It is clear that #11 paint could not be used straight out of the can. Linseed oil is a vehicle for paint pigment and as such is not really the same as a solvent thinner like turpentine. In fact, Linseed oil is a drying oil and forms the finish of the paint. The varying amounts of boiled linseed oil appear to reflect the need for more rapid drying on the first and second coat and a more impervious finish on the last coat. Note that the solvent thinner and Japan dryer amounts remain constant. I would not necessarily consider that the linseed oil was used to penetrate the wood, but it certainly counts as a wood preservative.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

On Dec 9, 2008, at 9:28 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:

Ed--

Excellent information. In the abscence of such info from other
builders, I have to wonder if the standards cited in this bill of
material might have been those used by most car builders. But the
citing of a Southern Pacific order also makes me wonder also if the
paintwork was done by P-S in accordance with SP's "Common Standard"
used by that road. As for the car lumber itself, was this not an AAR
standard?

Painting running boards once with thinned paint may have had a
purpose. Running boards painted with multiple coats of paint would
be slippery during wet weather. A trainman slipping on a such a
surface and consequently being seriously injured might justifiably be
inclined to sue the railroad under the US Federal Employers Liability
Act (FELA) of 1908. It would be argued in court (and probably
successfully) that the railroad CREATED the hazard that caused the
employee's injury.

So the use of one thinned coat of paint on running boards would be a
compromise that would impart some weather protection to the wood
running boards on account of the thinned paint penetrating through
the wood surface, yet not make the boards slippery when wet?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

Tim,
Out of curiosity I pulled out a random Pullman-Standard bill of
material for a series of box cars to see what it specified for
interior
decking and running boards. This happens to apply to two P-S lot
numbers 5537 and 5549, 1937 AAR box cars built in 1936 for Southern
Pacific, series 32770-33269 and 37840-38089, respectively.

On a per car basis, decking was comprised of 96 boards made of
Douglas
Fir, Vertical Grain, Close Grain, Free from Heart, and Edges Clear
of
Knots. Of the total, 94 were Tongue & Groove 1-3/4" x 5-1/16" x 9'-
8
1/4". The other two were 2-1/16" x 5-1/2" x 9'-8 1/4" with one
board
being tongue only and the other being groove only. Layout to
conform to
P-S drawing 512-C-51.

Running boards were also Vertical Grain Douglas Fir (9 boards for
the
longitudinals and 14 for the latitudinals. All boards were 1-1/8" x
5-3/4". The lengths of the longitudinals varied with 3 being 17'-
1", 3
being 14'-3 1/2", and 3 being 10'-10 1/2". The latitudinals were
all
2'-1" long.

There is nothing in the lumber section that says anything about any
type of wood coatings or preservatives.

Quoting from the section entitled Painting.

Application: All paint colors must be furnished by the car builder
and
must conform to the shade with sample colors shown in specification
CS-22. All paints must conform with specification CS-22. All paints
must be applied in perfectly even coats to both wood and metal
surfaces. Paint must not be applied in temperature below 40 degrees
Fahrenheit. Paint may be applied either by brushed or by spraying,
if
done in a workmanlike manner. Inspectors must see that paints are
not
thinned down beyond their specified consistencies to permit of more
rapid application. The use of benzine or other inferior cutting
agencies will not be permitted.

Trucks: All parts of trucks, except wheels and axles must receive
two
coats of metallic paint No. 11 to be of the same consistency as the
two
coats of metallic paint for car body and be stenciled in white lead
in
accordance with drawings showing "Lettering" with initials of road
and
number on side of each truck which faces toward the end of car.

Underframe and Body: Underframe and body must be thoroughly cleaned
and
free from rust and grease before painting is begun. All joints
where
metal laps on metal must be given a thick coating of No. 1
Continental
Car Cement or approved equivalent before being riveted up. This
also
applies to wood parts which come in contact with metal. Body of car
(outside and inside metal surfaces including inside of roof) and
underframe must receive a priming coat of read lead in oil No. 19-A
with two coats of metallic paint No. 11 on outside of body and
underframe, and one coat of metallic paint No. 11 on inside of
metal
surfaces (including inside of roof) reduced as shown below. Apply a
good priming coat of red lead in oil No. 19-A to both inside and
outside of metal surfaces of body including inside of roof and to
underframe. This coat must be thoroughly well brushed in or sprayed
on
and then thoroughly well brushed in after spraying. Allow twelve
hours
for drying. Paint for the second outside coat shall be reduced with
1/2
gallon of boiled linseed oil, 1/8 gallon of turpentine substitute,
and
1/8 gallon Japan dryer to one gallon of No. 11. Allow twelve hours
for
drying. Paint for the third outside coat shall be reduced with one
gallon of boiled linseed oil, 1/8 gallon of turpentine substitute
and
1/8 gallon of Japan dryer to one gallon of No. 11. Allow twelve
hours
for drying. Paint for the second inside coat, which is applied to
all
inside metal surfaces including inside of roof, should be metallic
paint No. 11 and of the same consistency as the first outside body
coat. This coat should be applied before the lining and nailing
strips
are installed in the car. Allow twelve hours for drying.

Stenciling, Lettering and Numbering: All stenciling on outside of
car
must be done with white lead in oil, No. 12, in such a manner that
all
letters and figures are perfectly white. Location of all stenciling
must be in accordance with drawing showing "Lettering" and letters
and
figures must be in strict accordance with those shown on the
drawing.

Roof: Outside of roof must receive one coat of No. 1 Continental
Car
Cement or approved equivalent, sprayed on evenly to at least 1/32"
in
thickness, and as prescribed by the cement manufacturer. This coat
should be applied before outside body receives the two coats of
metallic paint No. 11 and before the running boards are applied.
The
outside surface of roof must be washed with clear water to remove
grease and dirt. If galvanized steel roof is applied, the
galvanized
surfaces after being washed must be coated with a solution of
Oxalic
Acid in proportion of 1/2 pint acid to one gallon of water: allow
to
dry and dust off.

Running Boards: Running boards must be given one coat of metallic
paint
No. 11 when third body coat is applied and of same consistency.

While this is just one example, I hope it helps shed some light on
box
car painting practices. Note that while the running boards received
a
single coat of metallic No. 11 paint, it was a coat that had been
substantially thinned. Regarding the bottom of the floor boards, my
interpretation is that they weren't specified to be painted, but
they
may well have received some overspray of red lead primer and
metallic
No. 11 paint.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: Santa Fe Sk.L stock car interior color

Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Andy - Since much of the floor was metal there would have to be at least some paint. So the question is, is it easier to just paint the metal or do the whole floor? From interior photos published in the Cycs it's impossible to tell. Certainly the upper sides appear to be unpainted. But I don't know what methods were used to clean the car. CP and CN spayed the interiors with a white chemical that was evident on the outside. But, remember, the Sks were also used to carry beets. I prefer to paint the interior the same color as the exterior simply as expedient. - Al Westerfield

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Sperandeo
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com ; ATSF@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 2008 8:51 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Santa Fe Sk.L stock car interior color


Hello Rob,

Frank Ellington's "Stock Cars of the Santa Fe Railway" has interior photos of a few Santa Fe stock cars, although none of the Sk-L represented by the Westerfield model. All the interiors appear to me to show unpainted wood, as there is plenty of visible wood grain and many knots. Richard Hendrickson's "Santa Fe Ry. Painting & Lettering Guide" specifies unpainted wood for stock car floors, but doesn't say anything about insides of the side slats or wooden ends. On later stock cars with steel ends (i.e., cars converted from boxcars), photos in Frank's book show the ends lined with unpainted wood, as Richard's book specifies for the lining of box and auto cars.

Merry Christmas,

Andy

Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Box car floor boards (was running boards...painted or not?)

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Ed--

Excellent information. In the abscence of such info from other
builders, I have to wonder if the standards cited in this bill of
material might have been those used by most car builders. But the
citing of a Southern Pacific order also makes me wonder also if the
paintwork was done by P-S in accordance with SP's "Common Standard"
used by that road. As for the car lumber itself, was this not an AAR
standard?

Painting running boards once with thinned paint may have had a
purpose. Running boards painted with multiple coats of paint would
be slippery during wet weather. A trainman slipping on a such a
surface and consequently being seriously injured might justifiably be
inclined to sue the railroad under the US Federal Employers Liability
Act (FELA) of 1908. It would be argued in court (and probably
successfully) that the railroad CREATED the hazard that caused the
employee's injury.

So the use of one thinned coat of paint on running boards would be a
compromise that would impart some weather protection to the wood
running boards on account of the thinned paint penetrating through
the wood surface, yet not make the boards slippery when wet?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

Tim,
Out of curiosity I pulled out a random Pullman-Standard bill of
material for a series of box cars to see what it specified for
interior
decking and running boards. This happens to apply to two P-S lot
numbers 5537 and 5549, 1937 AAR box cars built in 1936 for Southern
Pacific, series 32770-33269 and 37840-38089, respectively.

On a per car basis, decking was comprised of 96 boards made of
Douglas
Fir, Vertical Grain, Close Grain, Free from Heart, and Edges Clear
of
Knots. Of the total, 94 were Tongue & Groove 1-3/4" x 5-1/16" x 9'-
8
1/4". The other two were 2-1/16" x 5-1/2" x 9'-8 1/4" with one
board
being tongue only and the other being groove only. Layout to
conform to
P-S drawing 512-C-51.

Running boards were also Vertical Grain Douglas Fir (9 boards for
the
longitudinals and 14 for the latitudinals. All boards were 1-1/8" x
5-3/4". The lengths of the longitudinals varied with 3 being 17'-
1", 3
being 14'-3 1/2", and 3 being 10'-10 1/2". The latitudinals were
all
2'-1" long.

There is nothing in the lumber section that says anything about any
type of wood coatings or preservatives.

Quoting from the section entitled Painting.

Application: All paint colors must be furnished by the car builder
and
must conform to the shade with sample colors shown in specification
CS-22. All paints must conform with specification CS-22. All paints
must be applied in perfectly even coats to both wood and metal
surfaces. Paint must not be applied in temperature below 40 degrees
Fahrenheit. Paint may be applied either by brushed or by spraying,
if
done in a workmanlike manner. Inspectors must see that paints are
not
thinned down beyond their specified consistencies to permit of more
rapid application. The use of benzine or other inferior cutting
agencies will not be permitted.

Trucks: All parts of trucks, except wheels and axles must receive
two
coats of metallic paint No. 11 to be of the same consistency as the
two
coats of metallic paint for car body and be stenciled in white lead
in
accordance with drawings showing "Lettering" with initials of road
and
number on side of each truck which faces toward the end of car.

Underframe and Body: Underframe and body must be thoroughly cleaned
and
free from rust and grease before painting is begun. All joints
where
metal laps on metal must be given a thick coating of No. 1
Continental
Car Cement or approved equivalent before being riveted up. This
also
applies to wood parts which come in contact with metal. Body of car
(outside and inside metal surfaces including inside of roof) and
underframe must receive a priming coat of read lead in oil No. 19-A
with two coats of metallic paint No. 11 on outside of body and
underframe, and one coat of metallic paint No. 11 on inside of
metal
surfaces (including inside of roof) reduced as shown below. Apply a
good priming coat of red lead in oil No. 19-A to both inside and
outside of metal surfaces of body including inside of roof and to
underframe. This coat must be thoroughly well brushed in or sprayed
on
and then thoroughly well brushed in after spraying. Allow twelve
hours
for drying. Paint for the second outside coat shall be reduced with
1/2
gallon of boiled linseed oil, 1/8 gallon of turpentine substitute,
and
1/8 gallon Japan dryer to one gallon of No. 11. Allow twelve hours
for
drying. Paint for the third outside coat shall be reduced with one
gallon of boiled linseed oil, 1/8 gallon of turpentine substitute
and
1/8 gallon of Japan dryer to one gallon of No. 11. Allow twelve
hours
for drying. Paint for the second inside coat, which is applied to
all
inside metal surfaces including inside of roof, should be metallic
paint No. 11 and of the same consistency as the first outside body
coat. This coat should be applied before the lining and nailing
strips
are installed in the car. Allow twelve hours for drying.

Stenciling, Lettering and Numbering: All stenciling on outside of
car
must be done with white lead in oil, No. 12, in such a manner that
all
letters and figures are perfectly white. Location of all stenciling
must be in accordance with drawing showing "Lettering" and letters
and
figures must be in strict accordance with those shown on the
drawing.

Roof: Outside of roof must receive one coat of No. 1 Continental
Car
Cement or approved equivalent, sprayed on evenly to at least 1/32"
in
thickness, and as prescribed by the cement manufacturer. This coat
should be applied before outside body receives the two coats of
metallic paint No. 11 and before the running boards are applied.
The
outside surface of roof must be washed with clear water to remove
grease and dirt. If galvanized steel roof is applied, the
galvanized
surfaces after being washed must be coated with a solution of
Oxalic
Acid in proportion of 1/2 pint acid to one gallon of water: allow
to
dry and dust off.

Running Boards: Running boards must be given one coat of metallic
paint
No. 11 when third body coat is applied and of same consistency.

While this is just one example, I hope it helps shed some light on
box
car painting practices. Note that while the running boards received
a
single coat of metallic No. 11 paint, it was a coat that had been
substantially thinned. Regarding the bottom of the floor boards, my
interpretation is that they weren't specified to be painted, but
they
may well have received some overspray of red lead primer and
metallic
No. 11 paint.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe Sk.L stock car interior color

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Unpainted wood makes sense on the inside of a stock car, when you
consider that the animals in the car might gnaw at the paint. Lead
paint residue is not the kind of thing that one wants in meat.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...> wrote:

Hello Rob,

Frank Ellington's "Stock Cars of the Santa Fe Railway" has interior
photos of a few Santa Fe stock cars, although none of the Sk-L
represented by the Westerfield model. All the interiors appear to me
to show unpainted wood, as there is plenty of visible wood grain and
many knots. Richard Hendrickson's "Santa Fe Ry. Painting & Lettering
Guide" specifies unpainted wood for stock car floors, but doesn't say
anything about insides of the side slats or wooden ends. On later
stock cars with steel ends (i.e., cars converted from boxcars),
photos in Frank's book show the ends lined with unpainted wood, as
Richard's book specifies for the lining of box and auto cars.

Merry Christmas,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@...
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe Sk.L stock car interior color

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

Hello Rob,

Frank Ellington's "Stock Cars of the Santa Fe Railway" has interior photos of a few Santa Fe stock cars, although none of the Sk-L represented by the Westerfield model. All the interiors appear to me to show unpainted wood, as there is plenty of visible wood grain and many knots. Richard Hendrickson's "Santa Fe Ry. Painting & Lettering Guide" specifies unpainted wood for stock car floors, but doesn't say anything about insides of the side slats or wooden ends. On later stock cars with steel ends (i.e., cars converted from boxcars), photos in Frank's book show the ends lined with unpainted wood, as Richard's book specifies for the lining of box and auto cars.

Merry Christmas,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Re: Carbody Window Screens

Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...>
 

After seeing Jerry's nice MP compact-body caboose, I posted a photo of one of my Santa Fe way cars with the Laserkit screens. It's in the Files section of the STMFC site on Yahoo, in a folder called "Andy S freight cars." In this case I colored the mesh with a black marking pen, but I've also used a brown marker for more of a copper color. For another approach to window screens, see my article on detailing ATSF way cars in the September '91 MR. I now prefer the Laserkit screens, but I haven't replaced those old ones.

Merry Christmas,

Andy


Andy Sperandeo
Executive Editor
Model Railroader magazine
asperandeo@mrmag.com
262-796-8776, ext. 461
FAX 262-796-1142


Santa Fe Sk.L stock car interior color

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

A friend is finishing his Westerfield 11500-series HO scale model of a Santa
Fe Sk.L stock car and isn't certain about the car's interior color. Were
these perhaps whitewashed, or were they simply painted the same as the car's
exterior? Here's the stock car in question

http://westerfield.biz/11501_87051.htm

Thanks for any help!


Rob Sarberenyi


Re: Southern War Emergency Gon

Tim O'Connor
 

Al, any info on Southern 292000-292549 ?

Tim O'Connor

The Southern's cars, series 286000-286999 (per ORER), differed from
other 41ft War Emergency gons in having six drop doors (class GA).
Other owners were Texas & New Orleans, ACL, Midland Valley, Wabash;
Alton got all-steel versions, which went to GM&O. Info from Lofton,
MM 1/92, pp 20-24.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- Mike Aufderheide wrote:

All,
See:
http://steamfreightcars.com/prototype/catalog/mvcmc/mvcmcp21main.html

This interesting photo of a Southern gon in Jeff Koeller's Mt.
Vernon catalog led me to wonder if these cars are the same as those
offered by Funaro:

http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/279-6260


Re: Southern War Emergency Gon

al_brown03
 

The Southern's cars, series 286000-286999 (per ORER), differed from
other 41ft War Emergency gons in having six drop doors (class GA).
Other owners were Texas & New Orleans, ACL, Midland Valley, Wabash;
Alton got all-steel versions, which went to GM&O. Info from Lofton,
MM 1/92, pp 20-24.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Mike Aufderheide <mononinmonon@...>
wrote:

All,
 
See:
 
http://steamfreightcars.com/prototype/catalog/mvcmc/mvcmcp21main.html
 
This interesting photo of a Southern gon in Jeff Koeller's Mt.
Vernon catalog led me to wonder if these cars are the same as those
offered by Funaro:
 
http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/279-6260
 
It would be an interesting variation on the steel gons I have from
Sunshine & Speedwitch.  Does anyone have a roster of the 41ft war
emergency gons?
 
Regards,
 
Mike Aufderheide
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: IRC War Emergency Boxcars

jerryglow2
 

Any pics of it from the event or otherwise? I did not see it on
<http://www.pbase.com/superfleet93/oklahoma_city_train_show_2008>
which covered a lot that was there.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Mumper" <ericmumper@...> wrote:

Group,

The Oklahoma City Train show proved to be a great trip since so many
manufacturers were there including Intermountain. They were publicly
showing something that should be of great interest to all of us: 40'
War Emergency single sheathed boxcar test shots. There were 3 of
them
labeled underneath for NKP/Wabash, ATSF/GM&O/Alton, and CNW. They
were
sitting on top of a photocopied article by Richard Hendrickson about
the ATSF cars. Since I had not gotten my eyeballs calibrated before
going, I cannot really comment on accuracy although the tooling for
the
sides looked great.

Eric Mumper

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