Date   

Re: 1925 photos around Omaha

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Guys -

Here are some nice photos from around Omaha in the 1924 to 1925 era.
The link was posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Yahoo group. I never
knew that the Old Dutch Cleanser reefers really had a prototype!

<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579
<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579> >

A.T. Kott

A. T., those are not nice photos, those are GREAT photos.

A few remarks:

Photos 14 and 23: I've never seen that many double slip switches except in the passenger yard leads
for the DL&W in Hoboken! And each one has a single switch lamp. Sure, that makes sense after
thinking about it, but it seems counterintuitive.

Photo 30: Model that steel structure and you'll be laughed at. What a contrivance to hold up the
upper level!

Photo 38: Someone else mentioned this three-way switch. Pretty fancy stuff for an industrial
siding. Neat view into the gon at lower right, too.

SGL


LCL Cement Container Decals

Rich C
 

Does anyone know who makes them? There once was a modeling article in
MR on kitbashing an Athearn gondola into a Lehigh Valley cement gon.
The author mentioned 7th Street Depot. I tried contacting them about a
year ago, no answer at the phone number provided.

Thanks,
Rich C


Re: 1925 photos around Omaha

S hed <shed999@...>
 

Excellent photos especially showing the end of one of the Wilson stock cars, which I have had a hard time finding a photo of a complete car. This is the only picture of one of the ex-LLT stock cars (see attachment).

The Wilson stock cars were ex-Lackawanna Live Stock Transportation Co cars built sometime before 1915 and they lasted until sometime between 1935 and 1940. Lackawanna Live Stock was headquartered in Chicago.

Lackawanna and Cold Blast Transportation Co were somehow linked together and were purchased sometime between 1915 and 1919. CBT reefers were used by S&S to transport their meat products (see the other attachment). Control of S&S went to Thomas Wilson in 1916, who was the former president of Morris & Co. The name of S&S was changed to Wilson & Co and joined Armour, Wilson, Cudahy, and Swift as one of the country's big five meat packers.

Another large meat packer was Morris & Co which was bought by Armour in 1923. Morris was considered one of the "Big 5" monopolistic meat packers that the government tried to break up. They were also called the "Beef Trust".

Armour ended up divesting itself a large portion of its assets in 1919 which resulted in the formation of Fruit Growers Express but did manage to hold onto its meat business. The Big 5 was made up of Armour, Morris, Wilson, Cudahy, and Swift. Which you can see that they had a big infleunce in Omaha by the pictures on the website.

A 1922 New York Times article that I have reports that Armour had total assets worth $480 million dollars, Morris ($91 million), Swift ($361 million), Wilson ($192 million), and Cudahy ($61 million). This is in 1922 dollars so I have no idea what it is in today's dollars.

A combined value of the Armour / Morris merger would give them a total worth of $571 million compared to the combination of the other three companies of $524 million. I am sure a lot of people were surprised that the merger was approved by the US government. But then we are talking about Armour and Morris having their headquarters in Chicago. And we know what Chicago politics are like.

You can also imagine how much Armour was worth before the 1919 breakup if their meat business was worth $480 million dollars in 1925.

Anyway, one of the pictures on the website show the Morris & Co packing plant, which in 1925 is technically now Armour & Co. It is a good assumption that Armour hadn't gotten around to repainting the building since Morris owned several meat packing plants around the country. Morris lettered reefers, tanks cars, and stock cars lasted until sometime between 1930 and 1935.
Thanks AT for posting this.

Steve Hedlund
Everett, WA



To: STMFC@yahoogroups.comFrom: atkott@swbell.netDate: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 23:22:35 +0000Subject: [STMFC] 1925 photos around Omaha



Guys -Here are som nice photos from around Omaha in the 1924 to 1925 era. The link was posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Yahoo group. I never knew that the Old Dutch Cleanser reefers really had a prototype!<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579>A.T. Kott





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Re: 1925 photos around Omaha and unpainted roofs

gary laakso
 

The CB&Q and the FW&D stock cars shown in picture 20 don't look painted to me. There appear to be many knots showing in the wood. Plus in pix 14, there is a Pittsburgh and West Virginia coal gondola. I guess its going over Sherman Hill!

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: proto48er
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 12/10/2008 6:23:09 PM
Subject: [STMFC] 1925 photos around Omaha


Guys -

Here are som nice photos from around Omaha in the 1924 to 1925 era.
The link was posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Yahoo group. I never
knew that the Old Dutch Cleanser reefers really had a prototype!

<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579>

A.T. Kott


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

gary laakso
 

I certainly agree with you and my 20 years in the ESPEE Law Dept confirm that the marketing folks like to list everything and then some as potential customers. I will not discuss how accurate their marketing plan car counts were compared to reality or what flooding the system with too much traffic did to train operations.
That said, the book reflects patterns of heavy Team Track usage for a much wider variety of products then I thought. I may have read too many ESPEE team track reports! For instance in the GN book, in a large number of towns, coffins are listed as a team track commodity (though one industry received "coffin plywood" [no, there was no footnote on whether it was treated or not]) and there are a fair number of soda companies and potato chip receivers listed. Maybe they were team track customers.

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net

----- Original Message -----
From: Aley, Jeff A
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 12/10/2008 7:43:28 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks


Gary,

It is useful to consider why the "Industrial Guide" was published (and given away). I believe the intent was for "Business to Business" transactions. In other words, if I had something to ship, I could look and see what potential new customers were available ("coincidentally" served by the GN). Or, if I want to buy something, I can similarly look for suppliers (again, that would ship by the GN).

Some local freight agents would apparently list every single industry they could find, and if they weren't rail-served, they'd list them as "Team Track". My point is that a listing in the book doesn't necessarily mean that such a shipment (from a team track) ever really happened.

Regards,

-Jeff

________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:54 AM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks

I have been going through the January 1, 1961 Great Northern Railway Industrial Guide for points served by it and other railroads. The scope of team track usage amazes me since it covers from coffins to Edsels to Hamms beer to paving machinery and on and on. Here are the uses that i am not sure what type of freight car would be used (no, i am not listing pipe, threaded or not):
1- boats; flatcars?
2- fish; refrigerator cars?
3- elevators (as in Otis) boxcars?
4- steel products (its not more specific) gondolas?
5- soft drinks (i assume vending machines) boxcars?
6- vitamins; refrigerator cars?
7- pilings; flat cars or gondolas?
8- candy/tobacco; refrigerators?
9- potato chips (its listed at multiple locations) refrigerators?
10- ferns , as in plants ? no idea
11- fireworks? no clue and for Mike Brock..
12- jailhouse supplies? brig cars?

gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net<mailto:vasa0vasa%40earthlink.net>


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

Aley, Jeff A
 

Gary,

It is useful to consider why the "Industrial Guide" was published (and given away). I believe the intent was for "Business to Business" transactions. In other words, if I had something to ship, I could look and see what potential new customers were available ("coincidentally" served by the GN). Or, if I want to buy something, I can similarly look for suppliers (again, that would ship by the GN).

Some local freight agents would apparently list every single industry they could find, and if they weren't rail-served, they'd list them as "Team Track". My point is that a listing in the book doesn't necessarily mean that such a shipment (from a team track) ever really happened.

Regards,

-Jeff


________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gary laakso
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 9:54 AM
To: STMFC
Subject: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks


I have been going through the January 1, 1961 Great Northern Railway Industrial Guide for points served by it and other railroads. The scope of team track usage amazes me since it covers from coffins to Edsels to Hamms beer to paving machinery and on and on. Here are the uses that i am not sure what type of freight car would be used (no, i am not listing pipe, threaded or not):
1- boats; flatcars?
2- fish; refrigerator cars?
3- elevators (as in Otis) boxcars?
4- steel products (its not more specific) gondolas?
5- soft drinks (i assume vending machines) boxcars?
6- vitamins; refrigerator cars?
7- pilings; flat cars or gondolas?
8- candy/tobacco; refrigerators?
9- potato chips (its listed at multiple locations) refrigerators?
10- ferns , as in plants ? no idea
11- fireworks? no clue and for Mike Brock..
12- jailhouse supplies? brig cars?


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@earthlink.net<mailto:vasa0vasa%40earthlink.net>


Re: 1925 photos around Omaha

Charles Morrill
 

There are some great yard trackwork photos in that series. I was particularly fascinated by the three way point switch. What a fun project to build in 1/48 scale.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: "proto48er" <atkott@swbell.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 5:22 PM
Subject: [STMFC] 1925 photos around Omaha


Guys -

Here are som nice photos from around Omaha in the 1924 to 1925 era.
The link was posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Yahoo group. I never
knew that the Old Dutch Cleanser reefers really had a prototype!

<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579>

A.T. Kott


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





Re: 1925 photos around Omaha

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 10, 2008, at 3:22 PM, proto48er wrote:

Guys -

Here are som nice photos from around Omaha in the 1924 to 1925 era.
The link was posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Yahoo group. I never
knew that the Old Dutch Cleanser reefers really had a prototype!

<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579>

A.T. Kott










Interesting photos, A. T. Thanks for the reference. But you
obviously haven't seen the recent book on Billboard Refrigerator Cars
by Ed Kaminski and myself, in which several Cudahy cars with Old
Dutch Cleanser advertising are shown. The book points out that most,
if not all, cars with ODC advertising on one side had some other type
of Cudahy advertising on the other side, and also that ODC
advertising came in different forms; not al the cars that had it were
alike.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Unpainted wood.

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

ERRATA:

Ideal dry rot conditions are present when there is 30-35% wood moisture content, versus the diametrically contrary assertion that I posted in error.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: Reciprocal switching

Andy Laurent
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jerry" <jrs060@...> wrote:
Andy, you are indeed correct that the reciprocal switching
agreements were
very common in the steam era, and that most of the arrangements
actual
involved accounting and paper work more than anything else.
It's total changed today in Chicago, due to deregulation, and
it's misleading
to look at the tariff agreements your quoiting above as applicable
during the time
period this group is interested in. In Chicago the ruling tariff
that was the law
within the switching district was IFA (Illinois Freight
Association) #22, the Chicago
Switching Tariff. And just briefly, the carrier that delivered the
car to industries
closed to reciprocal switching within the district got a portion of
the line haul rate,
not the uniform switching charges, on any car movement even if they
did not
participate in the actual line haul routing.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

Jerry, sorry for any confusion. I was not trying to imply that the
modern tariffs would apply to steam era operations. I was just
pointing folks in a direction where they could learn how 'reciprocal
switching' was defined and learn some basic terminology by observing
how it is practiced today.

If someone has a copy of IFA#22, I would love to see it.

Regards,
Andy Laurent


Re: 1925 photos around Omaha

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

A.T. Kott wrote:
Here are som nice photos from around Omaha in the 1924 to 1925 era. The link was posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Yahoo group. I never knew that the Old Dutch Cleanser reefers really had a prototype!
<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579>
Obviously you don't have the new Billboard Reefer book, or you'd know all about it--and also that the Old Dutch advert was only on one side of the car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: GREEN BAY & WESTERN

Andy Laurent
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Sperandeo <asperandeo@...> wrote:

Covers the Ahnapee & Western, Green Bay & Western, Kewaunee Green
Bay & Western, and Fox River Valley Railroads as part of its on going
preservation mission.

Contact Information
GBWHS
158 Hilltop Drive
Green Bay, WI 54301
This is the correct contact info for the GBWHS. The website is
www.gbwhs.org

I am a charter member of the Society. I have been in touch with our
webmaster and we will rectify the communication problem.

We have recently released a custom decorated Accurail 40'
refrigerator car custom decorated to match the A&W 3000-3004 series
ex-MDT cars that the railroad acquired in 1948. The lettering is
individual to each road number representing the prototypes down to
the repack stencils. The cars sell for $24.95 each or both for
$44.95. Decals are available at no cost for the other 3 road numbers.

See http://www.greenbayroute.com/latestnews.htm#117 and
http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx?c=a&id=2748
for images of the car.

Contact me with any questions regarding this project or any GB&W
questions that you have.

Regards,
Andy Laurent
GBWHS Model Project Manager


1925 photos around Omaha

proto48er
 

Guys -

Here are som nice photos from around Omaha in the 1924 to 1925 era.
The link was posted on the Railway Bull Shippers Yahoo group. I never
knew that the Old Dutch Cleanser reefers really had a prototype!

<http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26579>

A.T. Kott


Re: Prototype Rails/Cocoa Beach 2009 update

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 10, 2008, at 1:19 PM, Aley, Jeff A wrote:

Shall I start up the "My Weather is Nicer than Your Weather" Yahoo!
Group? [Hint: THIS Yahoo!Group is about Steam-Era Freight Cars.]



Jeff, do you have the keys to moderate jail, and would it accomplish
anything if you rattled them loudly within earshot of the list owner?

Richard Hendrickson


1953 CBC on ebay

Tom Lawler
 

Hi all,



I just listed a 1953 CBC on ebay. It is a 3 day auction. Item number is:
230313668299 or you can try the link below.



http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&ite
m=230313668299> &ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT&item=230313668299



Tom Lawler





E-mail message checked by Spyware Doctor (6.0.0.386)
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Re: Prototype Rails/Cocoa Beach 2009 update

Larry Jackman <Ljack70117@...>
 

I am moving back to the Seattle area. Will be back there by Jan 1, 2009. Seattle 36 inches of rain per year. Miami gets 65 inches and hurricanes. Mississippi gets 75 inches. I do not know what they expect here this year but they are advertising snow blowers on Miami and Palm Beach TV stations.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@comcast.net

On Dec 10, 2008, at 4:05 PM, Mike Brock wrote:

Richard Hendrickson writes:

"What's with this gratuitous sneer at weather in the Northwest???"

Sneer? Hardly. A guy living in western Oregon visited here a few yrs ago
arrived at night and, awaking the next morning, was seen to wander outside,
look up and, evidently stunned, aclaimed...The Sun!!! We couldn't figure out
what the problem was until he mentioned later that he had not seen it in
several yrs.

"Today in Ashland it's clear, sunny, and dry (i.e., no Florida-style
high humidity),"

Well, of course, in the summer the humidity does seem a bit high...but not
now.

"...the wind is calm, and the temp is around 52."

Geeez. Isn't that below freezing?

"Ideal
weather for outdoor activities."

I can't play golf in an overcoat...or do much else. I don't even go seek out
steam era frt cars at the local shops.

"I just got back from an hour of
flying aerobatic practice in the Citabria. What's not to like?"

Well...I CAN see the advantage of not having to worry about cooling one's
beer. Other than that...??

Think I'll take a dip in the pool...before lunch outside.

Richard Hendrickson



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Prototype Rails/Cocoa Beach 2009 update

CJ Riley
 

--- On Wed, 12/10/08, Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com> wrote:
From: Aley, Jeff A <Jeff.A.Aley@intel.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Prototype Rails/Cocoa Beach 2009 update
To: "STMFC@yahoogroups.com" <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wednesday, December 10, 2008, 1:19 PM











Shall I start up the "My Weather is Nicer than Your Weather" Yahoo!Group? [Hint: THIS Yahoo!Group is about Steam-Era Freight Cars.]



Since the moderator has the keys and is responsible for feeding the denizens, can he be assigned residence?CJ Riley


Re: Prototype Rails/Cocoa Beach 2009 update

CJ Riley
 

"What's with this gratuitous sneer at weather in the Northwest??? "



I don't know what you mean, Mike.  I have lived here long enough that I haven't worn a raincoat in several years. I did put my down vest on last night as a left for a meeting, thinking it might be a cool night. I didn't need it as it got down to only 45.  Seemed almost balmy compared to many nights in Pittsburgh.
CJ RileyBainbridge Island WA





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Unpainted wood.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Aley, Jeff A wrote:
I have been led to believe that many box car interiors and possibly floors were of white oak. A woodworker once asked me if I knew where any boxcars were being scrapped (i.e. in the Antelope / Roseville area), as they were often a source of good-quality recycled oak.
True for many railroads. SP often specified Douglas fir or yellow pine, since both could be obtained from on-line mills, and are also durable woods.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Prototype Rails/Cocoa Beach 2009 update

Aley, Jeff A
 

Shall I start up the "My Weather is Nicer than Your Weather" Yahoo!Group? [Hint: THIS Yahoo!Group is about Steam-Era Freight Cars.]

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
[Soon to be Ex- ] Deputy Moderator, STMFC


P.S. Those of you who ARE interested in Steam-Era Freight Cars are encouraged to attend the various Prototype Modeling meets around the country, especially Prototype Rails in Cocoa Beach, FL. See http://www.prototyperails.com<http://www.prototyperails.com/> for details.





________________________________
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Brock
Sent: Wednesday, December 10, 2008 1:06 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype Rails/Cocoa Beach 2009 update


Richard Hendrickson writes:

"What's with this gratuitous sneer at weather in the Northwest???"

Sneer? Hardly. A guy living in western Oregon visited here a few yrs ago
arrived at night and, awaking the next morning, was seen to wander outside,
look up and, evidently stunned, aclaimed...The Sun!!! We couldn't figure out
what the problem was until he mentioned later that he had not seen it in
several yrs.

"Today in Ashland it's clear, sunny, and dry (i.e., no Florida-style
high humidity),"

Well, of course, in the summer the humidity does seem a bit high...but not
now.

"...the wind is calm, and the temp is around 52."

Geeez. Isn't that below freezing?

"Ideal
weather for outdoor activities."

I can't play golf in an overcoat...or do much else. I don't even go seek out
steam era frt cars at the local shops.

"I just got back from an hour of
flying aerobatic practice in the Citabria. What's not to like?"

Well...I CAN see the advantage of not having to worry about cooling one's
beer. Other than that...??

Think I'll take a dip in the pool...before lunch outside.

Richard Hendrickson

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