Date   

Re: Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

8 rung ladders! I missed that. Built the kit at a show this weekend and the
RMJ was here at home. Darn. Going to have to fix that.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Leppert" <b.leppert@att.net>
Did you put on eight rung ladders?


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

David Smith
 

Apparently, at least 10 were owned and operated by the Federal Government
(Dept. of Commerce), but were largely replaced by trucks in the 30s and were
out of operation by 1947 http://www.catskillarchive.com/rrextra/fishcar.Html
A picture of a Montana state car accompanies the Wikipedia entry on stock
cars http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stock_car_(rail) Fry (juvenile fish) were
shipped cross-country as well as locally. They apparently mostly traveled
in passenger consists, to expedite their journey.

Dave Smith


On Sun, Dec 7, 2008 at 10:20 PM, Schuyler Larrabee <
schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net> wrote:

Exactly what I was talking about. Except I think that GN had some of
their own. You're right
though, the car I was thinking of was owned by the Pennsylvania Department
of Fish and Game, or the
equivalent.

SGL

Gary, Schuyler,

Fish for your dining table in reefers. Shellfish in express reefers. Live
fish traveled in Pullman type cars,
usually owned by the state they operated in. These were for stocking
rivers and lakes. Many RRs
hauled these cars back
in the day.

Fred Freitas

--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net<schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net>
<mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net<schuyler.larrabee%2540verizon.net>>

wrote:

From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net<schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net><mailto:
schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net <schuyler.larrabee%2540verizon.net>> >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> <mailto:
STMFC%40yahoogroups.com <STMFC%2540yahoogroups.com>>
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:29 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have
been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery
cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had
them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations
where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL








--
David L. Smith
Da Vinci Science Center
Allentown, PA
http://www.davinci-center.org

Please consider the environment before printing this email.

Everything that needs to be said has already been said. But since no one was
listening, everything must be said again. -- Andre Gide


Re: Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Self-aligning, spring plankless, double truss 50 ton trucks. The next
truck from Tahoe Model Works.

Did you put on eight rung ladders?

Brian Leppert
Tahoe Model Works
Carson City, NV

-- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Brian J Carlson" <brian@...> wrote:

I am trying to finish off two models and need some help with the
trucks. I
am working on an NP 1937 AAR boxcar. The kit comes with trucks with
Spring
planks. I have the July 1991 RMJ which has an article by Ed hawkins.
However
the photo is so small the trucks are tough to see. I think they are
spring
plankless trucks.

Also the kit comes with a wood roof walk Did these cars keep a wood
roof
walk their entire lives? Thanks.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Box car running boards...painted or not?

Walter M. Clark
 

Mike,

Check the archives. Specifically a thread beginning with message
#19373 (May 22, 2003) and another beginning with message #72470 (May
6, 2008). I remembered those because I started both threads <g>.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

While researching another item, I was somewhat surprised to note in
the RP
Cyc, Vol 3, article by Pat Wider that the bottoms of the wood floors
of box
cars of our period were not painted. I'm certainly not knowledgeable
about
the resistance
to rot of wood used in box cars in the 40's but I can't imagine
leaving a
piece of wood unpainted...on the bottom of a box car or the
underside of the
eave of a house...either of those being in the state of Florida for
a few
months. It is hard to dispute the photo in the article however.

Pat also notes that wood running boards were usually left unpainted.
This,
of course, has been commented on before on the STMFC but I think
it's worth
a review. Looking at my favorite color photo of box cars of our
period from
above...namely Jack Delano's shot of C&NW's Proviso yard as seen on the
cover of Mainline Modeler...May '92...I can see no paintless running
board
among the many box cars present. Included are C&NW, M&STL, SR,
Monon, UP,
PR, PE and Mil.

Photos of frt cars are often taken from the ground...giving no view
of the
running board.

Mike Brock


Re: Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 7, 2008, at 6:48 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am trying to finish off two models and need some help with the
trucks. I
am working on an NP 1937 AAR boxcar. The kit comes with trucks with
Spring
planks. I have the July 1991 RMJ which has an article by Ed
hawkins. However
the photo is so small the trucks are tough to see. I think they are
spring
plankless trucks.






AAR self-aligning spring-plankless.

Also the kit comes with a wood roof walk Did these cars keep a wood
roof
walk their entire lives?



Yes. I have photos of them after rebuilding and renumbering in the
1960s and they still had wood running boards.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NYC Lot 859-B

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

Thanks, wow, pretty late for trucks with spring planks. However, I have seen
other NYC 1950's era 50' cars with them. They must have reused them off
older cars since these cars were built by Despatch.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Hendrickson" <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 10:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC Lot 859-B


On Dec 7, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am working on a NYC lot 859-B boxcar (50' Branchline single door
boxcar).
I can't find a photo in my sources of the car. Does anyone know
what trucks
the car had?




AAR cast steel with spring planks. In HO I'd use the new Tahoe
Buckeye trucks.

Richard Hendrickson






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: NYC Lot 859-B

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 7, 2008, at 6:51 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

I am working on a NYC lot 859-B boxcar (50' Branchline single door
boxcar).
I can't find a photo in my sources of the car. Does anyone know
what trucks
the car had?




AAR cast steel with spring planks. In HO I'd use the new Tahoe
Buckeye trucks.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Carbody Window Screens

Walter M. Clark
 

Bob,

Check out http://www.smallparts.com/ and look at filters. They have
an enormous assortment of filters, and you should be able to find
something that would work.

Time stopped in November 1941
Walter M. Clark
Pullman, Washington, USA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, chapbob@... wrote:

Does anyone have a favorite product to recommend for HO scale window
screens
as found on cabooses, camp cars, etc.?

What I'm looking for is a fine mesh, but not so fine as to totally
hide the
window behind it.

Thanks!
Bob Chapman
**************Make your life easier with all your friends, email, and
favorite sites in one place. Try it now.
(http://www.aol.com/?optin=new-dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom00000010)




Re: Reciprocal switching, not bitching

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Yes, but as you know, the shipper can only choose a route that
is part of the published tariff. So it still begs the question
of why the owner of the track would accept a simple fee instead
of a generous percentage of the entire bill...
I think what we're missing is this was likely initially imposed by the
ICC, most likely after some railroad refused to participate in a
tariff where they were severely short hauled, and a customer (or many
customers) complained that they could spit and hit a second railroad
from their loading dock; why couldn't they ship via that road. It was
always advantageous for the customer to NOT be captive to one road;
even when rates were fixed, there was still the issue of car supply.
The ICC usually took the side of the customer,

As has been mentioned by others, the reciprocal part was that each
road gained access to more customers, without actually having to pay
much or anything; like per diem, each road submitted their aggregate
bill on a monthly basis, and they settled with a payment for the
difference.


Dennis


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Exactly what I was talking about. Except I think that GN had some of their own. You're right
though, the car I was thinking of was owned by the Pennsylvania Department of Fish and Game, or the
equivalent.

SGL

Gary, Schuyler,

Fish for your dining table in reefers. Shellfish in express reefers. Live
fish traveled in Pullman type cars,
usually owned by the state they operated in. These were for stocking rivers and lakes. Many RRs
hauled these cars back
in the day.

Fred Freitas

--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net
<mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net> >
wrote:

From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net <mailto:schuyler.larrabee%40verizon.net> >
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:29 PM

-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL






Re: Lifelike Fowler CN

Walter Cox
 

Hi Jim, This car is actually a model of a CP car rather than a CN. I
don't know what type of lettetring CP was using in 1929 but there is a
CP sig where you could get such info. I model CN (1959) so I'm not
familiar with what the lettering looked like in 1929 but I think I
could dig it up if you need it. I picked up a pair of CP shells and the
only underframes that I have found so far that would fit are
Westerfield, Speedwitch and an old MDC 36' boxcar which would need
would need work. I don,know if any of them are available separately.
Walt


-- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "red_gate_rover" <red_gate_rover@...>
wrote:

In an impulse purchase I picked up a LifeLike Canada Fowler boxcar. It
came without the underframe and trucks. What underframe could I use
and whose trucks would be right? Also the shell is painted and
lettered for CN but has no data. Who sells data and other markings for
this car and what resource do I need to know where things should go?
I model 1929. As always, thank you. -Jim


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Gary, Schuyler,
 
                      Fish for your dining table in reefers. Shellfish in express reefers. Live fish traveled in Pullman type cars, usually owned by the state they operated in. These were for stocking rivers and lakes. Many RRs hauled these cars back in the day.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Sun, 12/7/08, Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net> wrote:

From: Schuyler Larrabee <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Car Types for Team Tracks
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 7, 2008, 9:29 PM








-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Reciprocal switching

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Nothing close to it, eh? Here's some recent quotes, selected quickly for relevance and not to pick on anyone:

"I wonder where I did get the bogus information? Oh, I remember! Off the internet. Burned again!"

"About all it takes to be "a expert" on the internet is to buy a computer."

"This reminds me of the old saw about if you let a group of monkeys play with typewriters long enough they will end up writing the great American novel, by pure random chance. >>I must comment that this has been disproven by the mere existence of the internet.... :)"

Well, maybe you didn't read those. . .

The response to my post sounds pretty defensive given that I was so clearly way off base. It also describes my post as a misrepresentation but goes on to say that, "Many of us, however, tend to distrust information found on the internet unless there is ample corroboration. There's a fair amount of absolute BS out there on the net, and a great deal more information that is inaccurate or incomplete."

In other words: Many on this group *are* predisposed to consider anything found on the internet as *absolute* BS at first blush, and that which is only *near* BS is frequently just as bad because of inaccuracies and omissions.

Yeah, I can see now. I was waaaay off the mark there. . . Sheesh.

BTW, how did the response to my post further our understanding of reciprocal switching?

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson

On Dec 7, 2008, at 1:17 PM, Kurt Laughlin wrote:

I know that some denizens of this group are predisposed to consider
anything
found on the internet as complete bullsh_t....

C'mon, Kurt, this is gratuitous misrepresentation. No one on this
list has made any such claim, or anything close to it. Many of us,
however, tend to distrust information found on the internet unless
there is ample corroboration. There's a fair amount of absolute BS
out there on the net, and a great deal more information that is
inaccurate or incomplete. And much of it is so ephemeral that errors
never get corrected. By contrast, if you make a mistake in a written
publication, as Mike Brock recently pointed out, you will be held
accountable for it in the community of readers you are addressing.
Those of us who write are well aware that, every time we publish a
book or article, we put our reputations on the line. That doesn't
mean we never make mistakes, but it does tend to give us (most of us,
anyway) a more cautious approach to the facts than seems typical of a
lot of stuff that can be found on the net. I can cite myself as an
example; I sometimes respond to posts on the STMFC list off the top
of my head, and sometimes I'm wrong. I tend to be a lot more
rigorous about fact-checking when I'm writing for publication.


NYC Lot 859-B

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I am working on a NYC lot 859-B boxcar (50' Branchline single door boxcar).
I can't find a photo in my sources of the car. Does anyone know what trucks
the car had?

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Truck roof walk help NP 1937 AAR

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I am trying to finish off two models and need some help with the trucks. I
am working on an NP 1937 AAR boxcar. The kit comes with trucks with Spring
planks. I have the July 1991 RMJ which has an article by Ed hawkins. However
the photo is so small the trucks are tough to see. I think they are spring
plankless trucks.

Also the kit comes with a wood roof walk Did these cars keep a wood roof
walk their entire lives? Thanks.

Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


New file uploaded to STMFC

STMFC@...
 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC
group.

File : /Proviso 1943.jpg
Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>
Description : Jack Delano shot of Provise in 1943

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Proviso%201943.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/web/index.htmlfiles

Regards,

losgatos48 <losgatos48@comcast.net>


Re: Car Types for Team Tracks

Schuyler Larrabee
 

-----Original Message-----
From: gary laakso

2- fish; refrigerator cars?
Well, reefers if they're dead fish (I should hope so!). But they may have been live fish for
stocking lakes and streams. I know several railroads had fish hatchery cars (there may be a better
more accurate term), and that the GN was one of them. PRR and LV both had them, I think. Probably
others. These carried hatchlings from fish hatcheries to the locations where they were to be
"delivered."

SGL


Re: Reciprocal switching

Andy Laurent
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary roe" <wabashrr@...> wrote:
"...Each railroad establishes a switching district in which it will
arrange to have a car delivered, regardless of whose tracks the
siding is located on. Railroads establish reciprocal agreements
(we'll switch your cars, if you switch ours) to ensure that cars are
delivered.

"The road handling the switch will be paid a switching charge which
is determined by each railroad within each switching district."

gary roe
quincy, illinois
You nailed it, Gary. One detail that has not been discussed is that
the reciprocal switching agreement (or Tariff) would have a list of
customers (or stations) that were open to reciprocal switching. See
Page 8 of our (CSS&SB RR) current Tariff 6001 for an example:
http://www.southshorefreight.com/custresource.htm There are other
goodies in there too for anyone wanting to get in depth into
demurrage, intermediate switching, etc...

Since there are so many connecting roads in the Chicago Switching
District, we publish via a Tariff instead of specific agreements with
each line-haul carrier. The IHB does something similar with their
8000 series Tariff. http://www.ihbrr.com/tariffs.htm The EJ&E has a
reciprocal switch agreement for lumber via BNSF on their site:
http://www.tstarinc.com/eje/eje2/EJE_Reciprocal_Swtg_02-227.pdf

The GB&W Industry Lists of 1943 and 1952 show evidence of reciprocal
switching agreements at virtually every junction town...the serving
railroads are noted:
http://www.greenbayroute.com/industries.htm#railroads

I think reciprocal switching agreements were very common in steam era
days, but from a model railroad operating point of view they would
not appear different than a standard 'interchange-delivery' shipment.
The difference was in the accounting and paper work.

Enjoy,
Andy L.
CSS&SB RR


Re: Reciprocal switching - and the lack of it.

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Gene Green innocently asked:

What is meant by the term "reciprocal switching?"
And speculated:

I got the term off a list of industries in towns along the CGW. The
list apparently includes industries located along any of the other RRs
in the town. Some are marked reciprocal switching - yes and some
reciprocal switching - no.

Does it mean that RR A could spot a car on the industry's siding
located along RR B?
Touching off a spate of sarcastic emails.

But never mind that; a lack of reciprocal switching could be a powerful thing: In Binghamton NY, my
hometown, there was a company called Moon Milling. This has been shown in many photographs through
the years, because Moon is one of a series of buildings which make great backdrops for model
railroad layouts.

The situation was this: Moon Milling was across the ERIE mainline tracks from the ERIE's Binghamton
station. But, the D&H's last few rods of track joined the ERIE main at just about that point. This
meant that the D&H had the switching rights to Moon, not the ERIE. This wouldn't have been much of
an issue if the D&H was the shipper of choice for Moon, and/or if most of Moon's inbound traffic
came from the D&H. The best information I have says that for both cases it was the ERIE. So, here
we have a situation where the cars to Moon would arrive on the ERIE, but have to be interchanged to
the D&H, which would then spot the car. The straight-line distance from the station building to the
finally-delivered car is probably >100', maybe less than 80'.

Moon noticed that sometimes their cars would arrive on the ERIE, and be interchanged to the D&H, and
then spotted at their unloading spot, and it would take two days to get that done. This was an
annoying delay. In addition, there was an inequitable split of fees, because the D&H was the
terminating road, and got a good chunk of the billing, for handling the car maybe a quarter-mile all
together.

So, the ERIE wanted to get rid of the D&H's division of the rate. Moon wanted their cars as soon as
they could come in. But the D&H didn't >want< to give up their juicy share of money for so little
work. How to resolve this? Well, the D&H was interested in making a connection with the Lehigh
Valley; the nearest connection was at Owego, west of Binghamton, and at Owego the ERIE crossed the
LV tracks. Eventually, the D&H was given trackage rights to Owego to connect with the LV, and the
ERIE got to switch Moon Milling.

SGL


Re: C&BT Santa Fe reefer question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 7, 2008, at 10:40 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

I've got C&BT Shops kit R700, with 6' plug door,
4/4 ends, Preco fan plate on the side -- C&BT calls
this version "C1" whatever that means. The kits were
produced with the help of the SFMO and included is a
cross reference but -- I can't figure out exactly
which car is represented by this kit.

Looking through the Santa Fe reefers book, this body
looks very similar to some Rr-34, Rr-35 and Rr-40 cars
but none of the photos shows the exact combination of
ends and fan plate and door gussets.

So... any one know exactly what this kit represents?














Since plug doors are way out of my modeling era, I don't have any of
these C&BT kits. But if you could shoot a couple of digital images
of the car body and send 'em along as attachments, I can probably
answer your question.

Richard Hendrickson

108521 - 108540 of 186051