Date   

Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [PRR] Early "coil car" on the C&O 1954

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Oh, you wanted MORE?

 

Check out the damage caused by these coils, to this “dedicated” PRR coil box car….

 

Elden Gatwood

 

From: PRR@PRR.groups.io <PRR@PRR.groups.io> On Behalf Of Curt Fortenberry
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 1:35 PM
To: PRR@PRR.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [PRR] Early "coil car" on the C&O 1954

 


The one magazine I'm thinking of was something like "knowledge is of no value unless it is shared".

Curt Fortenberry


Steam Era Spray trains

csxt5555
 

Can someone point me to some information on weed spraying trains of the mid 50’s?

Thanks
Kevin


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Early "coil car" on the C&O 1954

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Scott;

There is very little, which is surprising. But maybe not.

They were moving quantities of fairly large, cold-rolled coiled steel sheet, of size, by the mid-thirties, and I have photographic evidence.

Hot rolled in open gons, cold-rolled in box cars, for weather protection.

There was a huge amount of wastage, when using even the biggest sheets, so the auto industry, appliance manufacturers, and can makers, began asking for coiled steel and tin-plate.

There is an enormous amount of research that needs to be done, and many statements about it are simply incorrect. I am only researching the PRR end of it, and with limitations, the other roads doing it, and I am at the tip of the iceberg.

It'd take a decade of full-time work to address the subject, and add to that autos and auto parts.

Here's a summary of mine on correspondence going back and forth between Ford and PRR:

"Oct 6, 1954: memo from Ford Motor Co. stating they asked the PRR, Wabash and DT&I to attend a meeting "for the purpose of developing a loading method for Jumbo rolls (first mention) of strip steel weighing 40,000 to 45,000 pounds each (20 to 22.5 tons EACH!), for shipment between Rouge and Bedford, OH or Buffalo (stamping plants). The DT&I Mechanical Dept was selected to develop the "mechanics of this proposition" and selected a G27 gondola, car number 347680, which is "now fitted with the necessary steel and heavy timbers". Why a PRR car was selected, and not a DT&I car, is unclear, but it may have been a joint sharing of equipment and services from all three railroads. After an initial routing, Ford Motor Company "ordered the car into the Lackawanna Plant of Bethlehem Steel for test loading to Dearborn". The memo also states that "we may shortly be confronted with a request to equip a substantial number of similar cars". "Representatives of Great Lakes Steel Co, have also learned about this car and have also asked to be given an opportunity to test load it with similar rolls of strip steel to develop the economics they too might derive from similar equipment." Further, "It seems to me that the Pennsylvania, Wabash, DT&I group is here presented with a problem which can have far reaching effects. If we provide a specially equipped gondola car to move 'Jumbo Rolls' of steel for the Ford Motor Company, we can scarcely afford to decline to furnish similar equipment to any company which wants to move 'Jumbo Rolls". That in itself is not particularly dangerous if it will assist to get coils of strip steel back on the railroads... " The memo goes on to state that they know the C&O and NKP are also working on this problem, but believe that both designs, which utilize tarpaulins for weather protection, "does not answer the problem". They also recognize that it will be a big problem to provide a good solution to those that desire to ship 'Jumbo Rolls'. A final note says that even if Ford Motor Co. were to be provided heavy duty flat bed trucks to move all the coil they need to move out of Dearborn, "Pennsylvania highway weight limitations (look up) would not permit the movement...to Buffalo"

...and that's just one.....

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of Scott Kremer
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 11:38 AM
To: main@realstmfc.groups.io
Subject: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Early "coil car" on the C&O 1954

Do you have any information as to when coiled steel was first moved in quantity? By coiled steel I mean the type of coils we see today. I could find no information on the internet on the history of the product.

Thanks,

Scott Kremer


Re: C of G 56309

Kenneth Montero
 

Eric,

Before you rush off to create artwork, check out Clover House dry transfer for Central of Georgia ventilator car, # 7188-01-DT-HO.

Here is a link to the website:


The dry transfer design is from 1893, but it may give you a start on what you need, as the left side of the car in the photo has what appears to be the same design as is in the left side of that dry transfer decal.

Ken Montero

On 07/20/2020 11:59 AM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:


Great work on a sweet model, Fenton! Thank you for sharing.


I’ve got one in my stash to build but I need to create decal artwork for the as-built lettering. You can see the difference when you zoom in on C of G 57611 captured in this circa 1926 image of the Duke University campus construction.

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260601EC0116


Does anyone know when these C of G ventilated boxcars received the updated lettering displayed on Fenton’s model?



Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN





From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C of G 56309


Just finished this vent boxcar.  It was released by the C of G HS and produced by Jim King.  Excellent kit and fun to build.  Here in Pinehurst the Southern Piedmont Rwy shops have built 2 vent boxcars.



Photo: Heinz Reefer & Boxcar

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Heinz Reefer & Boxcar

A 1920 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A715.L128.CP/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: B&LE/P&LE Gondolas

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: B&LE/P&LE Gondolas

A 1915 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A8223.1754.RR/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

One of steel, the other composite.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Photo: Santa Fe Boxcar 28582 (Bx-O)

Bob Chaparro
 

Photo: Santa Fe Boxcar 28582 (Bx-O)

A 1911 photo from the University of Pittsburgh Digital Archives:

https://digital.library.pitt.edu/islandora/object/pitt%3A201203.1911.3395/viewer

Scroll on the photo to enlarge it.

Too bad there are some obstructions.

Bob Chaparro

Hemet, CA


Re: Photo: Jeeps On Chicago Great Western Flat Car

Allen Cain
 

As a point of pure speculation, the lack of use of chains for tie downs during the war MAY have been due to the shortage of all metals during the war.

We were obsessed with exporting metals during the war to Germany and Japan!

Allen Cain


Re: C of G 56309

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks Eric, I've seen this photo of the Duke campus and there are others, one that shows the Southern gon, actually a flat with wood sides and photos of them are very rare.  
I think the C of G paint scheme I have was instituted in the late 1930's but not sure and maybe someone who knows will fill us in.
All the photos I have of these cars have the more modern paint and lettering.
Fenton

On Mon, Jul 20, 2020 at 12:00 PM Eric Hansmann <eric@...> wrote:

Great work on a sweet model, Fenton! Thank you for sharing.

 

I’ve got one in my stash to build but I need to create decal artwork for the as-built lettering. You can see the difference when you zoom in on C of G 57611 captured in this circa 1926 image of the Duke University campus construction.

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260601EC0116

 

Does anyone know when these C of G ventilated boxcars received the updated lettering displayed on Fenton’s model?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN



 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C of G 56309

 

Just finished this vent boxcar.  It was released by the C of G HS and produced by Jim King.  Excellent kit and fun to build.  Here in Pinehurst the Southern Piedmont Rwy shops have built 2 vent boxcars.



--
Fenton Wells
250 Frye Rd
Pinehurst NC 28374
910-420-8106
srrfan1401@...


Re: C of G 56309

Eric Hansmann
 

Great work on a sweet model, Fenton! Thank you for sharing.

 

I’ve got one in my stash to build but I need to create decal artwork for the as-built lettering. You can see the difference when you zoom in on C of G 57611 captured in this circa 1926 image of the Duke University campus construction.

https://repository.duke.edu/dc/dukeconstruction/19260601EC0116

 

Does anyone know when these C of G ventilated boxcars received the updated lettering displayed on Fenton’s model?

 

 

Eric Hansmann

Murfreesboro, TN



 

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C of G 56309

 

Just finished this vent boxcar.  It was released by the C of G HS and produced by Jim King.  Excellent kit and fun to build.  Here in Pinehurst the Southern Piedmont Rwy shops have built 2 vent boxcars.


Re: C of G 56309

Rich C
 

Great work Fenton
Rich Christie

On Monday, July 20, 2020, 08:40:06 AM CDT, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:


Just finished this vent boxcar.  It was released by the C of G HS and produced by Jim King.  Excellent kit and fun to build.  Here in Pinehurst the Southern Piedmont Rwy shops have built 2 vent boxcars.


Re: C of G 56309

Steve SANDIFER
 

Beautifully done!

 

 

J. Stephen Sandifer

 

From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <main@RealSTMFC.groups.io> On Behalf Of O Fenton Wells
Sent: Monday, July 20, 2020 8:40 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: [RealSTMFC] C of G 56309

 

Just finished this vent boxcar.  It was released by the C of G HS and produced by Jim King.  Excellent kit and fun to build.  Here in Pinehurst the Southern Piedmont Rwy shops have built 2 vent boxcars.


Re: Early "coil car" on the C&O 1954

Scott Kremer
 

Do you have any information as to when coiled steel was first moved in quantity? By coiled steel I mean the type of coils we see today. I could find no information on the internet on the history of the product.

Thanks,

Scott Kremer


WTB Roundhouse Old Time stock car

Steve SANDIFER
 

Athearn produced a version of the Roundhouse Old Time stock car that slipped my notice, and I sure would like to find one for my collection. It is the ATSF version painted for Kraus Livestock Commission. If anyone knows where to find one, I sure would like to get one. 


Early "coil car" on the C&O 1954

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

 

From the PRRT&HS files. 

 

PRR was looking at other RRs solutions to shipping sheet, coil, and other difficult steel loads, and had discussions with C&O officials about their experimental testing.  I love the reference to “file drawer” partitions.

 

The bundled sheets and coils, were wrapped in “weather-proof” paper, which turned out to be a failure in preventing water getting in a rusting the coils. 

 

PRR also tried tarps and temporary “covers”, since they did not want dedicated “one-way” cars, but all the expedients were fails, too.

 

The explosion of designs came in 1955.

 

More to come,

 

Elden Gatwood


Re: C of G 56309

al_brown03
 

Nice car!

AL B.


Re: C of G 56309

James Brewer
 

Nicely done Fenton!  I have that kit in my stash....somewhere!

Jim Brewer


Re: C of G 56309

Paul Doggett
 

Fenton 

That’s a really nice looking car and well built as well.

Paul Doggett.  England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 


On 20 Jul 2020, at 14:52, O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

Just finished this vent boxcar.  It was released by the C of G HS and produced by Jim King.  Excellent kit and fun to build.  Here in Pinehurst the Southern Piedmont Rwy shops have built 2 vent boxcars.

Attachments:


Re: Seaboard W73046

Bruce Smith
 

Richard,

As has been stated previously in this thread, this is likely a PTC product. Some of the spotting features are:

1) The bolsters. These heave built up trapezoidal bolsters SCREAM Standard Tank Car (STC), but actually derive from the earlier Pennsylvania Tank Car (PTC). Note that high walkway AC&F type 7 cars did have a larger bolster that vaguely resembles the PTC/STC bolster, but there are differences in the construction and contours. 
2) The absence of side/end sills. The AC&F type 7 high walkway cars had both side and end sills between the bolster and the end of the car. The car in the photo has neither.
3) The ladder position. The AC&F ladders are parallel with the end sill. The car in the photo has ladders parallel to the center sill. 

Regards

Bruce


Bruce F. Smith            

Auburn, AL

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."




On Jul 19, 2020, at 10:21 PM, Richard McQuade via groups.io <richardmcquade@...> wrote:

Looks like the  hi-walkway tank cars found on Westerfield's AC&F disc. The walkways look like they were modified from the originals with the railing placed inboard close to the thank instead of around the outside. The end ladders have been removed but the side ladders are still there. The overall construction of the car including the bands tying the tank to the frame and the underbody looks like the AC&F cars. Funaro and Camerlengo have a kit of the 8000 gallon AC&F hi-walkway tank car. Thanks for posting this. It will be helpful to me when I build my kits.
Richard


C of G 56309

O Fenton Wells
 

Just finished this vent boxcar.  It was released by the C of G HS and produced by Jim King.  Excellent kit and fun to build.  Here in Pinehurst the Southern Piedmont Rwy shops have built 2 vent boxcars.

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