Date   

Re: Consumer Warning Labels

mel perry
 

bare in mind gentlemen, this warning was created to protect the consumer,
the rampant useage, is a result of shyster lawyers, who thought they had
found a loophole, after losing the case,
most manufacturers found in cheaper
to enclose this warning in their products,
rather than paying lawyer fees, in
defending their businesses or paying
nuisance fees to "settle out of court"
to a bunch of shyster lawyers, i'll bet
your states don't give s rats ass about
your health, what you do know will kill
you, remember to save a copy of this
warning for your casket
:-)
mel perry

On Sat, Mar 7, 2020, 1:07 PM Charlie Vlk <cvlk@...> wrote:

All-

As a lifelong Model Railroader who now has spent a longer time than my first  in my second career (25 years and counting) in the Model Railroad Industry, I’ve heard the comment about labeling era on product for years.

Having worked in R&D for a number of importer/manufacturers I know how difficult it is to assemble and digest the information on the myriad range of eras, railroads, road numbers, paint schemes and variations thereof to make the product in the first place and would not care to try to distill that onto a label that will protect the consumer from making catastrophic wrong purchase decisions.  And that assumes that within the company hierarchy the marketing people in charge of putting together packaging and advertising actually listen to the R&D people in the first place.

The problem as I see it is that the people who care about freight cars (this group representing a large percentage of them) likely would know better or how to determine the approximate dates that a given car or paint scheme would be running the part of the rail network that they are interested in. 

I think it is better to let the consumer educate themselves to the level that they need….I could see hours of additional research on every product number to try to determine if AB&C #143233 in the mauve scheme ran under that number in that paint job with the particular stenciling applied…..if such information can even be had.   Would such information on a product cause people to buy more or give them an excuse not to make a purchase?   What would be next…..rejecting product as being “out of era” because COTS stenciling on brake equipment or reweigh dates are out of range?  

Yes, a few of us model on a tight range of dates (or even ONE day…Hi Jack!!) and those likely don’t wait for the label to say its okay to buy something….they do the work and justify the purchase within their own guidelines.

I just hope that California doesn’t get the idea that this needs their protection.   When I was at Kato we spent days on adding the legal notice to packaging because the brass used in flywheels contained a very small percentage of lead to make it machinable which was a big threat to the denizens of the Golden State who apparently eat their trains or throw them away in leaching landfills.

Charlie Vlk

   

 


Great Northern Flat Car 69958

Lester Breuer
 

I have completed the build of Great Northern Flat Car 69958, class FM.  If you are interested in the build of this flat car including addition of details not in the kit, photos and writeup of the build process including paint and weathering are now available on my blog I have to share photos and writeup of modeling projects on my Minneapolis & Northland Railroad Company.   If you would like to take a look please do at the following link:

http://mnrailroadcab100.blogspot.com/

Lester Breuer



Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Chuck Cover
 

Group,

 

I have an operating layout and need steps that will stand up to handling.  I have attached photos of how I fabricate this type  of “two rung sill steps” using A-Line type A steps and flat metal bar stock.  Pretty easy to tape and solder OR if you want to, ACC them.  The second photo is a finished F&C F29 depressed center flat car with finished steps.

 

Chuck Cover

Santa Fe, NM


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Tim O'Connor
 

You rock Bill! Good idea.



-----Original Message-----

From: fgexbill@...
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Sent: 2020-03-07 3:49:36 PM
Subject: Re: [RealSTMFC] Two Rung Sill Step

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 08:22 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
Sorry for the double posting, but I am looking for a plastic or brass casting of a two rung sill step of the type that looks like this
 
 
Is anyone aware of such a casting?
 
Thanks in advance,
Steve Hile
Easy to make w/A-Line, .005 styrene, and Harvested Rivets.

Bill Welch

Attachments:




--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: Consumer Warning Labels

Hudson Leighton <hudsonl@...>
 

If I ever go into the model train business, my labels are going to say:

"It is  Illegal to possess, purchase, sell or transfer this product in the State of California."

-Hudson


Consumer Warning Labels

Charlie Vlk
 

All-

As a lifelong Model Railroader who now has spent a longer time than my first  in my second career (25 years and counting) in the Model Railroad Industry, I’ve heard the comment about labeling era on product for years.

Having worked in R&D for a number of importer/manufacturers I know how difficult it is to assemble and digest the information on the myriad range of eras, railroads, road numbers, paint schemes and variations thereof to make the product in the first place and would not care to try to distill that onto a label that will protect the consumer from making catastrophic wrong purchase decisions.  And that assumes that within the company hierarchy the marketing people in charge of putting together packaging and advertising actually listen to the R&D people in the first place.

The problem as I see it is that the people who care about freight cars (this group representing a large percentage of them) likely would know better or how to determine the approximate dates that a given car or paint scheme would be running the part of the rail network that they are interested in. 

I think it is better to let the consumer educate themselves to the level that they need….I could see hours of additional research on every product number to try to determine if AB&C #143233 in the mauve scheme ran under that number in that paint job with the particular stenciling applied…..if such information can even be had.   Would such information on a product cause people to buy more or give them an excuse not to make a purchase?   What would be next…..rejecting product as being “out of era” because COTS stenciling on brake equipment or reweigh dates are out of range?  

Yes, a few of us model on a tight range of dates (or even ONE day…Hi Jack!!) and those likely don’t wait for the label to say its okay to buy something….they do the work and justify the purchase within their own guidelines.

I just hope that California doesn’t get the idea that this needs their protection.   When I was at Kato we spent days on adding the legal notice to packaging because the brass used in flywheels contained a very small percentage of lead to make it machinable which was a big threat to the denizens of the Golden State who apparently eat their trains or throw them away in leaching landfills.

Charlie Vlk

   

 


Re: Twin Cities Mpls St Paul Modelers Retreat - (an RPM by any other name)

np328
 

        Updating with a pdf of presenters from Ken and subject to change.    
 
Date March 13, 14th of 2020, Friday late afternoon into the evening, Saturday morning and afternoon. 

 Location: 11810  52nd Ave North, Plymouth, MN - same location as last few years. 
 Pre Registration: $20 includes lunch, which prior has been a great perk.  
 You may e-mail registration and transfer fund via PayPal to mhry19@... 
 Pre-Registration deadline is Monday the 9th.  or $25 at the door (which IMHO is still a good deal).
 Several local layouts will be open for tours. 

Ken Zieska is the organizer available at the above <mhry19@...> e-mail address. Also at http://www.tcdnmra.org/


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Bill Welch
 

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 08:22 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:
Sorry for the double posting, but I am looking for a plastic or brass casting of a two rung sill step of the type that looks like this
 
 
Is anyone aware of such a casting?
 
Thanks in advance,
Steve Hile
Easy to make w/A-Line, .005 styrene, and Harvested Rivets.

Bill Welch


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Bill Welch
 

Excerpt from CFR-2011 Title 49 Vol. 4 Part 231 FRA Rules that go back to 1911. 
 
(d) Sill steps—(1) Number. Four.
(2) Dimensions. Minimum cross-sectional area 1⁄2 by 11⁄2 inches, or equivalent, of wrought iron or steel. Minimum length of tread, 10, preferably 12,inches. Minimum clear depth, 8 inches.
(3) Location. (i) One near each end of
each side of car, so that there shall be
not more than 18 inches from end of car
to center of tread of sill step.
(ii) Outside edge of tread of step shall
be not more than 4 inches inside of face
of side of car, preferably flush with side
of car.
(iii) Tread shall be not more than 24,
preferably not more than 22, inches
above the top of rail.
Ken Adam

Thank you for posting this Ken!

Bill Welch


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Ken Adams
 

See my response on Resin Freight Car builders.  Also thanks for identifying Accurail as source of the unidentified two rung steps I found in my parts box. 

And I will add my FRA spec for sill steps here as well:

Excerpt from CFR-2011 Title 49 Vol. 4 Part 231 FRA Rules that go back to 1911. 
 
(d) Sill steps—(1) Number. Four.
(2) Dimensions. Minimum cross-sectional area 1⁄2 by 11⁄2 inches, or equivalent, of wrought iron or steel. Minimum length of tread, 10, preferably 12,inches. Minimum clear depth, 8 inches.
(3) Location. (i) One near each end of
each side of car, so that there shall be
not more than 18 inches from end of car
to center of tread of sill step.
(ii) Outside edge of tread of step shall
be not more than 4 inches inside of face
of side of car, preferably flush with side
of car.
(iii) Tread shall be not more than 24,
preferably not more than 22, inches
above the top of rail.

--
Ken Adams


Re: Prototype Junction Crowd Funding - Only one week to go

Randy Hammill
 

John answered most of your questions, but regarding build dates:

I have posted info here, and there are pages on our site for each prototype group, as well as on the IndieGoGo site. But there’s a lot of info so I’ll summarize here:

All of the cars in the project were originally built 1929-1931, depending on the specific car.

PM began rebuilding some of the auto cars starting 1940.

ATSF started rebuilding the Bx-11 and -12 classes with an 8” raised roof in 1941.

ATSF switched to a 12” roof extension in 1943.

ATSF began rebuilding the Bx-13 class with steel sides in 1951, and the other classes would follow in the late ‘50s, early ‘60s.

Some of the ATSF cara remained in their original configuration into the ‘60s, so starting in 1950 the original, 8”, 12”, and steel side rebuilds were all on the rails. In addition, the PM didn’t rebuild all of the auto cars, nor did the C&O repeater all of the ex-PM cars (after they acquired PM in 1947). So the PM and C&O cars were also seen in both configurations during the ‘50s.

Some of the 12” raised roof cars lasted into the ‘70s, as did some of the steel side rebuilds

we will be doing the major paint schemes for all of these cars, so if you’re modeling the ‘50s, you have a lot of choices:

ATSF Bx-11, 12, 13 as delivered (although any in interchange would have received AB brakes)

ATSF Bx-11, -12 with 8” roof extension

ATSF Bx-11, -12 with 12” roof extension

ATSF Bx-13 rebuilt with steel sides

RI SS Box car

CGW SS Auto car

L&N SS Auto car

PM SS Auto car

C&O SS Auto car

PM SS Box car

C&O SS Box car

That’s 15 unique prototype running in the ‘50s

Don’t forget that parts (roofs, ends, doors, trucks, etc) will also be available.

You will choose your specific cars shortly before we go to production. But there are more prototypes in the ‘40s, the most in the ‘50s, and then in decline through the ‘60s, with the auto cars in decline first. I’ve included more roster information at https://prototypejunction.com, just click on the tab near the top for each prototype for more info.

Randy


Randy Hammill
Prototype Junction
http://prototypejunction.com

Modeling the New Haven Railroad 1946-1954
http://newbritainstation.com


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Dennis Storzek
 

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020 at 06:33 PM, Eric Hansmann wrote:
Accurail has these with their 36-foot boxcar kits. They are not front mounted parts but are very well done. 
Thanks Eric. I don't know why we don't have a picture on our parts page http://accurail.com/accurail/parts.htm But they are #183, three sets for three bucks, or #184, thirty sets for twenty bucks. listed at the top right hand corner of the page. Here is a picture of them applied to an undec car  http://accurail.com/accurail/ART/1700/1700.jpg

The mounting is a clip-in hook, but you can either cut the hook off and glue the pegs in holes, or drill large enough holes that the hooks fit the holes and "pot" them with CA. These are acetal moldings, so glue doesn't stick well, but the potting method will keep them there forever. The mounting hooks are set back behind the vertical stiles, so you can drill the holes in the bottom of the sills positioned so the face of the stiles is even with the extension straps you model on the surface of the car side.

Dennis Storzek

 


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Eric Hansmann
 

Accurail has these with their 36-foot boxcar kits. They are not front mounted parts but are very well done. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Mar 6, 2020, at 7:22 PM, Steve and Barb Hile <shile@...> wrote:

Sorry for the double posting, but I am looking for a plastic or brass casting of a two rung sill step of the type that looks like this
 
 
Is anyone aware of such a casting?
 
Thanks in advance,
Steve Hile


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes that is the double step

On 3/6/2020 8:49 PM, Scott wrote:
Steve,

Pretty sure these are what you are looking for. Unfortunately they dont have a photo but if memory serves me right this was the one I saw there.  Maybe they can email you a photo of them.

http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/store/product/44357/NYC-MDT-Style-Double-Step/

Scott McDonald
--
*Tim O'Connor*
*Sterling, Massachusetts*


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

mel perry
 

steve:
email your copy to them, that way they
can compare, eith their stock
mel perry

On Fri, Mar 6, 2020, 5:49 PM Scott <repairman87@...> wrote:
Steve,

Pretty sure these are what you are looking for.  Unfortunately they dont have a photo but if memory serves me right this was the one I saw there.  Maybe they can email you a photo of them.

http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/store/product/44357/NYC-MDT-Style-Double-Step/

Scott McDonald 


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

Scott
 

Steve,

Pretty sure these are what you are looking for.  Unfortunately they dont have a photo but if memory serves me right this was the one I saw there.  Maybe they can email you a photo of them.

http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/store/product/44357/NYC-MDT-Style-Double-Step/

Scott McDonald 


Re: Two Rung Sill Step

radiodial868
 

Des Plaines Hobbies.  Hard part is they make so many versions, but no images.  Will see if I can find which ones I get for that same step.
http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/store/search.asp

search "stirrup". Yeah, yeah I know, blah blah blah "sill step".
RJ Dial
Mendocino, CA


Two Rung Sill Step

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Sorry for the double posting, but I am looking for a plastic or brass casting of a two rung sill step of the type that looks like this
 
 
Is anyone aware of such a casting?
 
Thanks in advance,
Steve Hile


Re: Prototype Junction Crowd Funding - Only one week to go

John Drake
 

Jim, these are excellent questions.  While Randy and I thought we have addressed these in either the Indiegogo campaign write up or in a post on our website, sometime we are not as clear as we intend to be, so thanks for bringing these up.

The intent of the crowdfunding raise is to obtain enough capital that we can make all the variation of the boxcars and autocars as we have described, all at the same time.  If we raise the our campaign goal, all of the models will be made. Period. The amount is pledged determines how many cars you get, depending on what perk you picked (e.g., 1 car at a 5% discount, 6 cars at a 20% discount, etc.).  At the time you pledge, you are solely indicating how much product you want initially.  It doesn't matter which car, which paint scheme, which number, ready-to-run, kit or just parts.  If we make our campaign goal, then we have enough capital to pay for the project and cover all of its costs, fixed and variable.  Check out Randy's most recent post at www.prototypejunction.com for a great overview of our analysis of the estimated costs of the project and setting the campaign goal level.

Now to get to your question, once this project is funded and begins production, the models in many ways are made to order.  We would be soliciting input from the campaign supporters for desired paint schemes (there weren't that many variations, but some), lettering features and numbers.   As we are get close to the final production phase, that is when the supporters make their final selections.  That is the time you choose which cars, which paint and lettering schemes and which numbers.  This may be 9-11 months after the funding campaign closes.

Keep in mind, as production steps are completed, we would provide copies of the CAD drawings, photos of pre-production models, etc.  Of course, during this time, the supporters can add to their pledge and new people can also place orders, though not at the discounts offered during the funding campaign. 

With regard to a pricing difference between kit and ready to run, we decided, at least for the time being to keep the prices the same.  That's not to say that could change depending on the end result of the project.  But again, if we did ultimately decide to differentiate the kit & RTR prices, we would do so prior to requesting final product selections, so one can put their pledged funds toward any of the products they want. 

I hope this helps Jim!  Thanks again for asking these questions.

John Drake
Prototype Junction


Re: Prototype Junction Crowd Funding - Only one week to go

Bill Welch
 

Unassembled kits are planned for the 1% of the Model RR'ers that want to build a freight car kit.

Bill Welch

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