Date   

BLI Penn Salt tank car paint schemes

spsalso
 

BLI has done three different paint schemes for Penn Salt on their little tank car.

Anyone have info on "eras"?  I figure the yellow and blue is the last one--it looks "late".  But when was that?





Ed

Edward Sutorik


Slim pickings for RR magazine

reubeft
 

Just return from my local Books A Million.  Per conservation with a sales person they would and did rearrange their selections.  Apparently no longer carrying RMC & NGSLG & European RR mag's.
Do have Kalmbach .  Time to subscribe.  Remember when I could fine Prototype Modeler & Model Railroading at the local newsstand
Reuben @ Poplarville, Ms


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Donald B. Valentine
 

    I can't disagree at woth what you have stated about thre Train Miniature line of cars, Tony, but can well remember the anticipation
some of us had waiting for them. Frankly, give what else was available for styrene kits in 1968 I was darned pleased to have them.
I can well remember riding over to Arnie Doucette's East Boston Hobby Shop on Bennington St. from the MIT club with fellow list
member Andy Miller and coming back with a double sheathed Rock Island boxcar, a single sheathed boxcar and a wood sheathed
reefer. Can't recall the road names for the latter two but still have all three and can put my hands on them very quickly. The only
other real choice in those days was MDC with their god awful cast clunker underframe that really turned me off. The variety that the
T-M line added to my rolling stock fleet was something I was very thankful to have and with sprung trucks even. When T-M went to
sprung trucks I was not impressed, called Frank about it and he offered to exchange sprung trucks for the solid molded ones for me.
True to his word he did so and that's all I expect from anyone, Frankly, I thought then that the T-M line of house cars was better than
the Athearn line and still feel that way. I'll wager there are at least 50 of them around here still. YMMV

Cordially, Don Valentine


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Brian Carlson
 

Outside of the cars brought over from P2K Walthers hasn’t been relevant for steam era revenue freight cars for the 21 century. 

Brian J. Carlson 

On Jul 15, 2019, at 3:50 PM, Tony Thompson <tony@...> wrote:

      Possibly the most offensive of these cars is the claimed "USRA" single-sheathed car. The prototype had three diagonal braces on each side of the door, where the Walthers model has two, mirroring the 1924 ARA design, not the USRA. C'mon, Walthers, get a grip. It's not remotely anything like the prototype you claim.
       (Ben kind of said this too, but I think it deserves emphasis.)

Tony Thompson




Re: New Walthers freight cars

Jon Miller
 

On 7/15/2019 8:52 AM, Tony Thompson wrote:
 "Dumpster fire" is about right.

    I thought we used to call these "PULL" cars. 

-- 
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax  Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
SPROG User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

You mean I didn’t?
Tony Thompson 


On Jul 15, 2019, at 4:07 PM, John Sykes III via Groups.Io <johnsykesiii@...> wrote:

C'mon Tony, tell us what you really think.

-- John


Re: New Walthers freight cars

John Sykes III
 

C'mon Tony, tell us what you really think.

-- John


Westy USRA 40-ton Double Sheathed boxcar as SP&S: Part 2

Bill Welch
 

Making progress with my Westy flat kit as a SP&S USRA boxcar. All of the wire parts are on sides and ends and A-Line sill steps were manipulated to replicate those used on the prototype. Note how they angle out. When retrofitted w/AB brakes all three components were placed on the same side of the underside of the car. This makes the model visually interesting but it did make getting the piping in place tricky. It can be seen that I actually cut the wire from the reservoir to the AB Valve short as I could not see the holes I had drilled for them. The AB brake parts were robbed form another Westy kit

I used one of George Toman's 3D printed pipe unions on the train line and did manage to get a section of .010 styrene rod manouvered into the respective holes drilled for it but of course this is totally hidden. The brake step appeared to have metal strapping around its perimeter so I used .005 styrene for this although mine is a little to wide now that I see it on the model. I had a trashed Tichy USRA SS steel rebuild from which I salvaged its end Placard Boards and used .005 styrene for make the straps where the PB is mounted.

The roof had running board saddles between the roof ribs: This is not correct so I removed them. The roof has been widened about .020 as i am going to try to model the facia boards and how the metal sheathing on the roof bend over the edges and covers part of the facia boards.

Bill Welch


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

      Possibly the most offensive of these cars is the claimed "USRA" single-sheathed car. The prototype had three diagonal braces on each side of the door, where the Walthers model has two, mirroring the 1924 ARA design, not the USRA. C'mon, Walthers, get a grip. It's not remotely anything like the prototype you claim.
       (Ben kind of said this too, but I think it deserves emphasis.)

Tony Thompson




Re: New Walthers freight cars

Tony Thompson
 

Ben Hom wrote:

Superficially similar, but definitely not the same:
- The T-M cars were designed around the basic dimensions of PRR Class X29, with 8 ft 7 in IH cars.
- Three roofs were offered: the X29 lap-seam roof, and two steel sheathed roof with lower profile seam caps
- Ends offered were a 3/3/3 Dreadnaught end, a single-sheathed end, and the X29 flat end.
- The common underframe featured a shallow fishbelly.
- The door options on the boxcars were the X29 3-panel door, a wooden door, and a strange corrugated door.  All featured large "claws" and had overscale door guides.

As I posted before, the current models being discussed are definitely new tooling, which means someone sadly greenlit this investment.

    This is all correct. But T.M. went further than Ben summarizes. They also made an outside wood roof, which they put on stock cars and some reefers; they made two single-sheathed ends, one plain (as on reefers) and the other braced like the 1924 ARA design; and they offered a whole smorgasbord of sides: not only the X29-ish steel, but a steel plug door; steel and wood sides with 6-foot hinged reefer doors; a wood box car; and of course a stock car side. As Ben says, all were rather low height, as required by the interchangeability of all the parts.
       And the result of having all these interchangeable parts, is that it was easy for them to offer combos that never were, and of course they did so. They lettered all these models with a kind of admirable abandon, clearly with no interest whatever in prototype. I mean, when many of the models are nutty, why hold back?
       Richard Hendrickson attempted in the early stages of the T.M. design process to encourage them to make better detailed and more accurate parts, which of course was counter to their plan of making MANY, MANY different cars with a modest range of dies, and he soon abandoned the effort in disgust. I shudder to think what he would say if he were here to see these Walthers travesties . . . but I can tell you that one thing he would NOT be is surprised.

Tony Thompson




Re: New Walthers freight cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Eric Hansmann wrote:
"Three of the four models looked very similar to the old TM cars."

Superficially similar, but definitely not the same:
- The T-M cars were designed around the basic dimensions of PRR Class X29, with 8 ft 7 in IH cars.
- Three roofs were offered: the X29 lap-seam roof, and two steel sheathed roof with lower profile seam caps
- Ends offered were a 3/3/3 Dreadnaught end, a single-sheathed end, and the X29 flat end.
- The common underframe featured a shallow fishbelly.
- The door options on the boxcars were the X29 3-panel door, a wooden door, and a strange corrugated door.  All featured large "claws" and had overscale door guides.

As I posted before, the current models being discussed are definitely new tooling, which means someone sadly greenlit this investment.


Ben Hom


Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Elgin Boxcar Green/Orange paintwhen started? Decals Available???

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Gang;

I don't have a definitive chronology, but from photos:

1) The white-on-red "one logo" cars lasted to at least 1947, but then go to the:

2) "Orange Lettering on Green + Map" scheme, on both DS rebuilds and 10' IH cars last to at least 1953, before:

3) "Orange panel above green, dual logo + Billboard" scheme, for some time after that, until as late as mid-1960, before:

4) "Orange lettering on solid green, dual logo + Billboard" in the early sixties, before:

5) "Green lettering on orange with black ends, the first of which I have (newly painted) dated 1963.

I am not sure what variants they did after that, but I would sure love to see the definitive piece on this topic.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io [mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io] On Behalf Of BillM
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 12:04 PM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Elgin Boxcar Green/Orange paintwhen started? Decals Available???

I like the car nice work. I do not remember seeing an answer to the original question of the appropriate era (dates) for this car or the orange and green or solid orange.

Bill Michael



Sent from Mail <Blockedhttps://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



From: pennsylvania1954 <mailto:stevehprr@...>
Sent: Monday, July 15, 2019 11:27 AM
To: main@RealSTMFC.groups.io <mailto:main@RealSTMFC.groups.io>
Subject: Re: [Non-DoD Source] Re: [RealSTMFC] Elgin Boxcar Green/Orange paintwhen started? Decals Available???



This may help. From the prototype photo of 61216 posted earlier, I did this model a few years ago. Intermountain 40' undec p/n 41099 which comes with 6' door, 10' H, 12 panel sides, r/3/4 ends, 8 rung ladders, and diagonal panel roof. I replaced the roof with a Red Caboose rectangular panel.

For the doors I faked it by partially opening the door, hiding the 6' width and too wide side panels with an 8' door. The doors are not perfect in their rib spacing, but that is not as evident on the real model. They are Branchline 100010, reduced in height.

Decals are from Jerry Glow, back when he was in business, well before he sold his line to Tichy. As has been mentioned multiple times, they are thick. As I recall, besides my usual Solvaset, pressing on the decal with a cloth wet with hot water conformed the decal around the rivet details. Like most, I prefer thin decals, but these were all we have.

Paint is Scalecoat II Southern Green.

The "dents" to the left of the door are from a yard incident involving sideswiping a flat car. All involved have been verbally reprimanded. That is my story and I am sticking to it.
--
Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL


Re: Re-trucked Bx11/Bx12

Bob Chaparro
 

I grew up right down the road from Santa Fe Springs (Attended Santa Fe High School..the Chiefs!). The orange groves there disappeared in the 1950s but the oil industry was very big going back to the early 1900s. I don't think this car was for hide loading in Santa Fe Springs because there was no packing plant in town.
Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Re-trucked Bx11/Bx12

Robert J Miller CFA
 

The symbol on the right side of the car in the first photo is for Zinc concentrate loading.

The printing on the left of the door in the second photo is Hide Loading Only …..


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Dave Parker
 

Ben Hom wrote:

"Actually, I'm trying to come up with any wood-sheathed prototypes with Murphy XLA roofs".

Hmmm.  PFE reefers from the 1920s?  Actually, the fishbelly center-sill makes it a better match to the post-war (WWI) MDT cars.  Not saying I would use this model for that purpose, but there is a prototype that is close (sorta).  More so than the box-cars at least.

Dave Parker
Riverside, CA


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor asked:
"Are any of these models recycled Trains Miniature tooling? Like that single sheathed box car?"

Sadly, it's all new tooling.


Ben Hom


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Eric Hansmann
 

Three of the four models looked very similar to the old TM cars. 


Eric Hansmann
Murfreesboro, TN

On Jul 15, 2019, at 1:26 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Ben

Are any of these models recycled Trains Miniature tooling?? Like that single sheathed box car?

Tim O'Connor




On 7/15/2019 2:17 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Tony Thompson asked:
"'Dumpster fire' is about right. Do ANY of the four models actually have prototypes? Why would you choose, for example, the roof they have put on three of the bodies?"

Going back to the end of April when these were first discussed:

40' double sheathed USRA boxcar
Analysis: An OK model of the USRA DS boxcar, but already available from Accurail for $10 less, and if you can't assemble the Accurail kit, you deserve to have your money taken.

40' "USRA" single sheathed boxcar
Analysis: Only thing it has in common with the USRA Specification 1001-B: 50-ton Single-Sheathed Box Car is general dimensions, 5/5/5 Murphy ends, and the fact it's a standard gauge single-sheathed boxcar. It resembles the 1923 ARA standard SS boxcar (XM-1) design, except (a) I can't think of any cars Pratt truss built to the XM-1 design with 5/5/5 Murphy ends and (b) any variants built to 9 ft IH vice the default 8 ft 7 in IH.  If I do my homework, I might be able to turn up a 9 ft IH prototype as a kitbash subject, but for $28 MSRP, I shouldn't have to. 

40' steel USRA rebuilt wood boxcar
Analysis: FAIL. This model has 5/5/5 Murphy ends and XLA roof, indicating an early rebuild reusing these components that did not increase the dimensions of the original car.  Unfortunately, none of these rebuilds (ACL/C&WC, SL-SF) had 10-panel sides, but exhibited 8-panel sides.  Also, the model lacks an inset side sill and brackets that are a spotting feature of almost all rebuilt boxcars.  This, along with the Atlas "Rebuilt USRA boxcar" model, is an overpriced representation of nothing.

40' Early Wood Reefer
Analysis: This looks like a generic 40 ft reefer.  Actually, I'm trying to come up with any wood-sheathed prototypes with Murphy XLA roofs.

Overall, these appear to be a 21st century repeat of Train-Miniature's approach of using common tooling across a group of similarly-dimensioned house cars, but even less thought out than the late 1960s attempt.  Maybe they went with a Pratt-truss SS boxcar to distinguish it from the Accurail SS model, but then why would they tool the same prototype as Accurail for the DS boxcar?  For that matter, why tool the same "rebuilt" boxcar as Atlas?


Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben

Are any of these models recycled Trains Miniature tooling?? Like that single sheathed box car?

Tim O'Connor




On 7/15/2019 2:17 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Tony Thompson asked:
"'Dumpster fire' is about right. Do ANY of the four models actually have prototypes? Why would you choose, for example, the roof they have put on three of the bodies?"

Going back to the end of April when these were first discussed:

40' double sheathed USRA boxcar
Analysis: An OK model of the USRA DS boxcar, but already available from Accurail for $10 less, and if you can't assemble the Accurail kit, you deserve to have your money taken.

40' "USRA" single sheathed boxcar
Analysis: Only thing it has in common with the USRA Specification 1001-B: 50-ton Single-Sheathed Box Car is general dimensions, 5/5/5 Murphy ends, and the fact it's a standard gauge single-sheathed boxcar. It resembles the 1923 ARA standard SS boxcar (XM-1) design, except (a) I can't think of any cars Pratt truss built to the XM-1 design with 5/5/5 Murphy ends and (b) any variants built to 9 ft IH vice the default 8 ft 7 in IH.  If I do my homework, I might be able to turn up a 9 ft IH prototype as a kitbash subject, but for $28 MSRP, I shouldn't have to. 

40' steel USRA rebuilt wood boxcar
Analysis: FAIL. This model has 5/5/5 Murphy ends and XLA roof, indicating an early rebuild reusing these components that did not increase the dimensions of the original car.  Unfortunately, none of these rebuilds (ACL/C&WC, SL-SF) had 10-panel sides, but exhibited 8-panel sides.  Also, the model lacks an inset side sill and brackets that are a spotting feature of almost all rebuilt boxcars.  This, along with the Atlas "Rebuilt USRA boxcar" model, is an overpriced representation of nothing.

40' Early Wood Reefer
Analysis: This looks like a generic 40 ft reefer.  Actually, I'm trying to come up with any wood-sheathed prototypes with Murphy XLA roofs.

Overall, these appear to be a 21st century repeat of Train-Miniature's approach of using common tooling across a group of similarly-dimensioned house cars, but even less thought out than the late 1960s attempt.  Maybe they went with a Pratt-truss SS boxcar to distinguish it from the Accurail SS model, but then why would they tool the same prototype as Accurail for the DS boxcar?  For that matter, why tool the same "rebuilt" boxcar as Atlas?


Ben Hom

--
Tim O'Connor
Sterling, Massachusetts


Re: New Walthers freight cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Thompson asked:
"'Dumpster fire' is about right. Do ANY of the four models actually have prototypes? Why would you choose, for example, the roof they have put on three of the bodies?"

Going back to the end of April when these were first discussed:

40' double sheathed USRA boxcar
Analysis: An OK model of the USRA DS boxcar, but already available from Accurail for $10 less, and if you can't assemble the Accurail kit, you deserve to have your money taken.

40' "USRA" single sheathed boxcar
Analysis: Only thing it has in common with the USRA Specification 1001-B: 50-ton Single-Sheathed Box Car is general dimensions, 5/5/5 Murphy ends, and the fact it's a standard gauge single-sheathed boxcar. It resembles the 1923 ARA standard SS boxcar (XM-1) design, except (a) I can't think of any cars Pratt truss built to the XM-1 design with 5/5/5 Murphy ends and (b) any variants built to 9 ft IH vice the default 8 ft 7 in IH.  If I do my homework, I might be able to turn up a 9 ft IH prototype as a kitbash subject, but for $28 MSRP, I shouldn't have to. 

40' steel USRA rebuilt wood boxcar
Analysis: FAIL. This model has 5/5/5 Murphy ends and XLA roof, indicating an early rebuild reusing these components that did not increase the dimensions of the original car.  Unfortunately, none of these rebuilds (ACL/C&WC, SL-SF) had 10-panel sides, but exhibited 8-panel sides.  Also, the model lacks an inset side sill and brackets that are a spotting feature of almost all rebuilt boxcars.  This, along with the Atlas "Rebuilt USRA boxcar" model, is an overpriced representation of nothing.

40' Early Wood Reefer
Analysis: This looks like a generic 40 ft reefer.  Actually, I'm trying to come up with any wood-sheathed prototypes with Murphy XLA roofs.

Overall, these appear to be a 21st century repeat of Train-Miniature's approach of using common tooling across a group of similarly-dimensioned house cars, but even less thought out than the late 1960s attempt.  Maybe they went with a Pratt-truss SS boxcar to distinguish it from the Accurail SS model, but then why would they tool the same prototype as Accurail for the DS boxcar?  For that matter, why tool the same "rebuilt" boxcar as Atlas?


Ben Hom 


Re: Re-trucked Bx11/Bx12

mopacfirst
 

It could very well be hide loading.  I can't blow up the photo enough to be completely sure.

The balance of the lettering reads 'WHEN EMPTY RETURN TO AT&SF RY. SANTA FE SPRINGS CALIF.'

I know Santa Fe Springs is heavily industrial, but that's about the limit of my knowledge.

Ron Merrick