Date   

Re: Modeler's Guide to Steel Boxcars (or "Boxcars for Dummies")

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

RichBeau wrote:

The newbie is back with what could be a flame starting question but
heck I don't know any better. <g>

In the May 2006 issue of Model Railroader magazine (I'm nearing the end
of my long run as a subscriber and probably won't re-subscribe) there's
a "Modeler's Guide to Steel Boxcars" by Tony Koestler. I'm wonder if
those who are more knowledgeable than I would be willing to comment on
it?
Rich,

Further to Brian Carlson's comments, Tony Koester's MR article could have been sub-titled "Boxcars for Dummies" which was probably Tony's (& MR's) intention with its publication. After all, when I first bought a computer, I bought the book "Computers for Dummies" to alleviate some of the mystery.

Perhaps, the article will encourage many of MR's readers to become more interested in the intricacies of boxcar design and whether a specific model and/or reporting mark would be appropriate for his layout. Who knows - some may even join the STMFC.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Kadee's new offset twin hopper

jaley <jaley@...>
 

Tim,

I wouldn't worry about it; the North Shore Club is anything but
prototypical. The last time I visited, a UP Challenger went by, and then
later there were a bunch of modern SP diseasels.
So if they're that lax w/ the motive power, you can be sure the
STMFC's will suffer.

Regards,

-Jeff

P.S. Nice scenery, though!

On Apr 3, 10:41pm, Tim O'Connor wrote:
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kadee's new offset twin hopper

In 10+ years at my train club I have yet to spot an L&N or NC&StL
freight car of any kind. And we model a railroad line that
traverses
Kentucky east to west!
Mike Brock wrote

Hmmmm. I hate to say this but that doesn't speak real positively for
your
club. Sorta like modeling Tehachapi with no Santa Fe or SP cars
during the
steam era.

You hear that Andy, Schuyler and Malcolm? Mike is dissin' the North
Shore!

( I agree with you Mike but then I'm kinda the black sheep of the
club... )

P.S. I have about a dozen L&N and NC&StL cars myself but I'm afraid to
put
anything on the layout for fear of the TONGS... X;{

Tim O'




Yahoo! Groups Links




-- End of excerpt from Tim O'Connor


--
Jeff Aley jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
DPG Chipsets Product Engineering
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: Modeler's Guide to Steel Boxcars

Brian J Carlson <brian@...>
 

I've reviewed the article and the following is purely my opinion.
There is a decent overview of 40 boxcars from 1923 to the postwar period.
Tony K doesn't go into too much detail but he mentions some good source
material, Ted's 1932 AAR book and quote's Tony Thompson regarding 50 boxcars
as examples. Much of the information have been covered in depth in Model
Railroading and RMJ in the past, as well as the RPC series. The pictures of
various ends and roofs will be helpful, but unfortunately it wasn't totally
comprehensive,, for example the different variations of IDE weren't shown,
and the boxcar door guide was woefully basic. No tables, or charts.
Brian J Carlson P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

----- Original Message -----


PFE R40-25

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 4/4/2006 12:57:30 PM Central Standard Time,
STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:
Odd that someone with your experience is unclear on
what "is wrong with the ends..." given that multiple
experts have freely offered quality research
assistance. Perhaps this is an example of something
being done too hastily, and perhaps too much
"on-the-cheap".

If at this late date you are receptive in being
enlightened as to this cars shortcomings, maybe Dan
Smith can have a 2nd round of educating you.


Andy, I'd like to be educated also.

Jerry Michels


PFE R40-25

asychis@...
 

In a message dated 4/4/2006 12:57:30 PM Central Standard Time,
STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:
I don't know what exactly is wrong with the ends on the R-40-25. I vaguely
recall discussing ends of one car or another (rounded or square edges to the
taper) with someone at one point, but that's all slipped out of my head.

Oh, and the part about "At least it's not another PFE reefer was a joke . . .
I'm always happy to get a new, nicely detailed model of <almost> anything.


Thanks Marty, I realized it was a joke, and that's why I taunted you. :^)

I'm still wondering what is wrong with the R40-25 ends that we had made. I
have no documentation from anyone in the past that they were wrong. I was sure
we (ARM and IM) tooled the roof and right ends, along with the extra piece
for the NP clones for the poling (push) pockets. We just had a run of the
separate roofs and ends done last month and about 75% are already sold, so someone
thinks they are correct. Perhaps the original poster will eventually reply and
confirm the "mistakes."

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum


Re: Ladders for CN Dominion 36 ft boxcars w/5 ft doors

al_brown03
 

Aah, my bad. I didn't catch that.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <bwelch@...> wrote:

Those are Canadian Pacific cars. I am interested in the Canadian
National cars. They are different, which is what provoked my
original
question.

Bill Welch


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@> wrote:

Umm ... Westerfield's 1500-series kits have 5' doors, or so the
site
says anyway.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <bwelch@> wrote:

But Al W. has not done the car with the 5 foot door,


Re: Modeler's Guide to Steel Boxcars

mjmcguirk@...
 

Rich,

Haven't seen it yet, but your mention of it makes me curious enough to check the local bookstore and see if the article is something worth buying the magazine for. I understand my friend David's O scale layout is the cover feature, so I might want to get it for that as well.

As far as the article, having not seen it I can't comment -- but I'm sure some will. Besides, I'm still trying to figure out what Mont Switzer's article a couple of months ago was about . . .

Marty McGuirk


From: "RichBeau" <RichBeau@comcast.net>
Date: 2006/04/04 Tue PM 04:50:41 EDT
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Modeler's Guide to Steel Boxcars


Re: Resin Casting Question

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

This deserves an answer, which I haven't seen go by.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Gene Green" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

RE your last sentence: Would consistent shrinkage (perhaps expressed
as a per cent or ratio) mean that if the full sized masters fit
together properly, then the slightly smaller parts would also fit
each other?

Would a large part with a greater volume shrink more (again as a per
cent or ratio) than a thin or small part? What I have in mind here
are those dimples we see on the larger parts of some plastic models.
Could some solid material be embedded in parts of a large volume to
reduce the amount of liquid resin so that there would be less
shrinkage? Would defective castings, flash, scraps and leftovers led
themselves to 'stretching' the liquid resin? Does fresh liquid resin
adhere well to previously cured resin?
Gene,

Those large dimples, called sink marks, have a different but related
cause.

Almost all materials (water excepted) decrease in volume when they
change from a liquid to a solid. When the molecules stop moving around,
they tend to pack more tightly, and may form molecular bonds
(polymerize). Materials that polymerize tend to shrink more, because
those molecular bonds tend to draw the molecules together even tighter.

In resin casting, both the rubber and the resin cure by polymerization,
and I don't care what anyone claims about no-shrink rubber, all rubbers
shrink. I've had RTV-J molds that have been in storage for several
years, and there was measurable shrinkage. Leaving the cured rubber on
the master for a longer period of time doesn't change anything; the
shrinking rubber just compresses, and will still be smaller when the
master is removed. The so called "no-shrink" rubbers simply don't shrink
very fast, so initially there is not much dimensional change, and the
theory is the mold will be used up before the shrinkage becomes a
problem. Tom Madden's suggestion that the molds be baked comes at this
problem from a different direction; the heat increases the rate of
polymerization, so you get a couple of years worth of shrinkage in a
couple of hours, and the molds are more stable afterwards. But, they are
still smaller than the master. This is also true of the so called
"crystalline" thermo-plastics that build polymer chains after they
solidify; acetyl wheels and axles can continue to shrink, warp, or split
for years. Don't ask me how I know this.

The casting resins also cure by polymerization, and therefore they too
shrink. However, they don't have to shrink uniformly in all three
directions; if restrained in one direction, they will just shrink more
in another. Think of paint as an example. When the enamel you brushed on
the kid's swing set dries, it doesn't twist the swing set into a
pretzel, because the steel tubing is so much stronger than the paint
film. Instead all the shrinkage is in the unrestrained direction of the
thickness of the paint film. Something similar happens to the plastic
in an ejection mold. The surface of the part cools quickly and is
restrained by the mold steel. It can't move much when the still molten
center of the part cools, so the part size doesn't change appreciably.
If the part stays in the mold long enough and the surface stays cool
enough, the center will actually shrink to form a hollow void, called a
vacuum void, because it is filled with, well, nothing. You often see
these in the center of runners, because the molders don't see much sense
in lengthening the cycle time just to make perfect runners. If ,
however, there is enough residual heat in the part to soften the surface
after it comes out of the mold, then the shrinkage pulls the surface in,
and you see a sink mark.

However, rubber molds aren't hard enough to have this effect on resin
castings, so the shrinkage tends to be uniform and you don't find sink
marks. Because of this even shrinkage, parts made from masters that fit
together will still fit. However, if you try to pot solid but flexible
material (like resin scrap) in a resin casting, you risk having the
parts warp as they shrink, so it is not a good idea.

Dennis Storzek


Modeler's Guide to Steel Boxcars

RichBeau <RichBeau@...>
 

The newbie is back with what could be a flame starting question but
heck I don't know any better. <g>

In the May 2006 issue of Model Railroader magazine (I'm nearing the end
of my long run as a subscriber and probably won't re-subscribe) there's
a "Modeler's Guide to Steel Boxcars" by Tony Koestler. I'm wonder if
those who are more knowledgeable than I would be willing to comment on
it?

TIA
--Rich Beaubien
(who's still on the steep part of the learning curve)
Bolton MA


Re: Detailed equipment handling

Rod Miller
 

What works for me in O scale, and probably applies to some smaller
scale, is:

- Always use two hands. Always.
- Pick up trucked cars/locos by the trucks
- Gently feel at the contact points to test for small breakable parts
such as steps. Before applying force shift grip if needed to avoid
those parts.
- Always separate steam engine components, e.g., separate the engine from
the tender, pick up each part separately
- Pick up steam locos with one hand on the cylinders and the other hand
gripping the cab floor and bottom of frame. On articulated locos the cylinder
pick up point is the front cylinders, and carefully allow the boiler to
swing to one side against the U of your fingers to stablize it for
carrying. Pick up tenders by their trucks.
- Some older steam locos have drawbars that are screwed to both the
engine and tender, and have to be handled as a unit. To pick them up I
put one hand on the cylinders. The index finger of the other hand goes
under the cab roof and with the same hand grip the tender sides. That
way one hand controls the tender and loco as a unit.
- Pick up multi-units one unit (by the trucks) at at time. E.g., as an
extreme example, separate an ABBA set and pick up four times.

- Before inverting the piece to work on it (always use a soft cradle to
hold it), check for hinged detail parts that could open. Use blue
masking tape to hold them closed so they don't flop open when you turn
the piece upside down which springs the hinge when you lay the piece
down in the cradle.

All that seems like a lot, but believe me, avoiding repairing that
detailed piece is worth it. And unfortunately, I have learned the
above pointers the hard way.

Of course, as others have posted, dealing with pieces not getting
handled by visitors/operators can be an art in diplomacy.

Rod Miller


Re: PFE reefer error

Paul Lyons
 

I want to thank Andy, Dan and especially Tim, because as the one who asked the question, I finally have gotten it straight. By the way Marty, I was not fretting about George Mason, but rather UCLA. However, I should have been paying more attention to the list-it would have been more productive.

Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: mjmcguirk@cox.net
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tue, 4 Apr 2006 14:42:12 -0400
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PFE reefer error


Tim,

Thanks, I think I've got it straight now. I'll review the models and photos at
home tonight.

Marty McGuirk



From: timboconnor@comcast.net
Date: 2006/04/04 Tue PM 01:34:50 EDT
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PFE reefer error







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Ladders for CN Dominion 36 ft boxcars w/5 ft doors

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Those are Canadian Pacific cars. I am interested in the Canadian
National cars. They are different, which is what provoked my original
question.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

Umm ... Westerfield's 1500-series kits have 5' doors, or so the site
says anyway.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lnbill" <bwelch@> wrote:

But Al W. has not done the car with the 5 foot door,


Re: PFE reefer error

mjmcguirk@...
 

Tim,

Thanks, I think I've got it straight now. I'll review the models and photos at home tonight.

Marty McGuirk


From: timboconnor@comcast.net
Date: 2006/04/04 Tue PM 01:34:50 EDT
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PFE reefer error


Re: Another PFE reefer....

mjmcguirk@...
 

Remember the "special run approach" comment I made a couple of weeks ago -- the Tichy run is a perfect example of "So you're the manufacturer and your special run customer who ordered the cars has backed out -- so now what do you do?"

Luckily, I don't have to care or worry about it any more -- my biggest problem is finding a picture of a CV GS gondola!!
Marty McGuirk


From: Garth Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
Date: 2006/04/04 Tue PM 02:14:22 EDT
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Another PFE reefer....


Re: Another PFE reefer....

mjmcguirk@...
 

Remember the "special run approach" comment I made a couple of weeks ago -- the Tichy run is a perfect example of "So you're the manufacturer and your special run customer who ordered the cars has backed out -- so now what do you do?"

Luckily, I don't have to care or worry about it any more -- my biggest problem is finding a picture of a CV GS gondola!!
Marty McGuirk


From: Garth Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
Date: 2006/04/04 Tue PM 02:14:22 EDT
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Another PFE reefer....


Re: Another PFE reefer....

mjmcguirk@...
 

Remember the "special run approach" comment I made a couple of weeks ago -- the Tichy run is a perfect example of "So you're the manufacturer and your special run customer who ordered the cars has backed out -- so now what do you do?"

Luckily, I don't have to care or worry about it any more -- my biggest problem is finding a picture of a CV GS gondola!! Which is considerably more fun . . .

Marty McGuirk


From: Garth Groff <ggg9y@virginia.edu>
Date: 2006/04/04 Tue PM 02:14:22 EDT
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Another PFE reefer....


Re: Another PFE reefer....

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Marty,

Good list, but you left out Intermountain offering assembled Tichy R-40-4s, with K-brakes, black ends, hatch platforms, and 1950s lettering. A total mish-mash.

As for "another PFE reefer", there were buzillions of these things, and lots of different classes. Anyone who models the SP, UP, or WP needs a flock of 'em. They are as indispensible to modeling California railroads as hoppers are to the B&O. They even showed up on the Sacramento Northern. ;-)

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff

mjmcguirk@cox.net wrote:

This is perhaps the best example of poor communications I've seen in a long time . . . most caused by people trying to type and wonder, fretfully, why George Mason couldn't go all the way in the NCAA tournament. . . .
As discussion of PFE reefers is not a bad topic, perhaps some facts will reset the baseline and let us achieve communication:

1. InterMountain makes an R-40-23
2. Amarillo contracted with InterMountain to tool a new roof and a set of new ends to make an R-40-25. 3. InterMountain tooled an R-40-10 -- everyone freaked. 4. InterMountain tooled the R-40-10 again, called it a Premium or Premier or some such kit, raised the price, and everyone REALLY freaked. 5. InterMountain bought a bunch of Terry Wegmann's parts and got the R-30-18s (and perhaps the -19s, I don't remember) assembled and decorated.
Clear?

I don't know what exactly is wrong with the ends on the R-40-25. I vaguely recall discussing ends of one car or another (rounded or square edges to the taper) with someone at one point, but that's all slipped out of my head.
Oh, and the part about "At least it's not another PFE reefer was a joke . . . I'm always happy to get a new, nicely detailed model of <almost> anything.
Marty McGuirk


Re: Kadee's new offset twin hopper

SUVCWORR@...
 

Oh but it is so. Especially rampant among those who prefer scenery to rolling stock and have no concept of the time, effort or money that go into the rolling stock. We also have our fair share of wanna bees who think they know everything about building rolling stock and then proceed to force the floors into Branchline cars backwards and using ACC no less.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Jon Miller <atsf@inow.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, 3 Apr 2006 20:53:40 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Kadee's new offset twin hopper


but I'm afraid to put
anything on the layout for fear of the TONGS... X;{<
I suspect this is an inside joke but the picture in my mind is scary.
Say it isn't so that you go to a club that had big steel TONGS to grab cars
with!!!!!!!

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Another PFE reefer....

mjmcguirk@...
 

Andy,
Again, this time very brief as brevity is key to clarity --

I know there were specific ends tooled for the R-40-25 -- and it wasn't a case of simply a case of taking an R-40-23 with a different roof and calling it an R-40-25 --

My question remains --which ends are at issue -- the R-40-25, R-040-23, or both????

Marty McGuirk


Re: Another PFE reefer....

Andy Carlson
 

--- mjmcguirk@cox.net wrote:

This is perhaps the best example of poor
communications I've seen in a long time . . . most
caused by people trying to type and wonder,
fretfully, why George Mason couldn't go all the way
in the NCAA tournament. . . .
Marty, Paul simply repeated my typo error- which I
posted a correction quite quickly.

As discussion of PFE reefers is not a bad topic,
perhaps some facts will reset the baseline and let
us achieve communication:

1. InterMountain makes an R-40-23
2. Amarillo contracted with InterMountain to tool a
new roof and a set of new ends to make an R-40-25.
The IM R-40-25 end is incorrect, as Dan Smith has
posted. It is only a -25 end in that it is afixed to a
product labeled as a R-40-25.



I don't know what exactly is wrong with the ends on
the R-40-25. I vaguely recall discussing ends of one
car or another (rounded or square edges to the
taper) with someone at one point, but that's all
slipped out of my head.
Odd that someone with your experience is unclear on
what "is wrong with the ends..." given that multiple
experts have freely offered quality research
assistance. Perhaps this is an example of something
being done too hastily, and perhaps too much
"on-the-cheap".

If at this late date you are receptive in being
enlightened as to this cars shortcomings, maybe Dan
Smith can have a 2nd round of educating you.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

132741 - 132760 of 186051