Date   

Re: FGE Decals

The Mahlkovs <mahlkov@...>
 

Marty,

If you don't mind dry transfers, Clover House makes about five different FGE lettering sets in N, HO, and O scales. http://www.cloverhouse.com

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

-------------------------------

Marty McGuirk asked:

Anyone know of a good, available source for black steam era (post war) FGE lettering?? I know
Champ made a set -- and a I found a few at Timonium a few weeks back -- but all those sets
looked like someone had been using them to absorb humidity in a terrarium . .

OR , do I have to scan some pics and do the artwork and send it, with hopeful thoughts, to
Ted Culotta to add to his line . . .








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Re: FGE Decals

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 17, 2006, at 3:27 PM, cvsne wrote:

Anyone know of a good, available source for black steam era (post war) FGE lettering?? I know
Champ made a set -- and a I found a few at Timonium a few weeks back -- but all those sets
looked like someone had been using them to absorb humidity in a terrarium . . .

OR , do I have to scan some pics and do the artwork and send it, with hopeful thoughts, to
Ted Culotta to add to his line . . .

Marty (remembering to add first and last name Mike!) McGuirk
Clover House has a very good dry transfer set.

Richard Hendrickson








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Richard Hendrickson


FGE Decals

cvsne <mjmcguirk@...>
 

Anyone know of a good, available source for black steam era (post war) FGE lettering?? I know
Champ made a set -- and a I found a few at Timonium a few weeks back -- but all those sets
looked like someone had been using them to absorb humidity in a terrarium . . .

OR , do I have to scan some pics and do the artwork and send it, with hopeful thoughts, to
Ted Culotta to add to his line . . .

Marty (remembering to add first and last name Mike!) McGuirk


Re: Athearn 65'6" Mill Gon article in Feb RMJ

Scott Pitzer
 

A correction: The C&O cars were built in late 1957/ early 1958, according to the Kresse book on C&O Hoppers and Gondolas. They were delivered with yellow lettering.
A clarification: As someone mentioned lately, (I'm not sure if it was on this list or another,) Wabash STEEL gondolas were black.

Scott Pitzer


Re: .088" wheels

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Although in theory these wheels will "fall" into the larger frogs, as a very practical matter in real time they simply do not. Just about every one of our HO trucks (sprung or otherwise) has an inherent stiffness such that the truck simply sails through the frog balanced on just three wheels, the fourth kept aloft flat, just free-sailing through the air landing-to-landing.

My standard wheels are all .088" in a broad pig's breakfast of various trucks, and the bulk of my mainline turnouts are #10 or #12 (also of several different makes), and I never (that is, *never*) have experienced even the slightest problem with wheel droppage (I do not even hear anything more than a satisfying 'click' as each wheel hits each frog)

At this moment, and for the past week, I am running a test train of about 60 STEAM ERA car models of mixed ages and makes c. 1937 Varney paper to 2005 Westerfield resin around the layout. About 40 of cars have the narrow wheels. These are consistently the cars that track the best, and do not pick the frogs at the double-slips, nor the turnout points. That they incidentally also happen to roll the best is an 'extra'.

IMHO, the standard use of .088" wheels is one of the very best operational and cosmetic decisions I have ever made, and I have at least 100 freight cars now so converted.

It is time to put this criticism to rest.

BTW, at some point I will report on some aspects of my "long train" observations.

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California


Kraft refrigerators

Garth Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Friends,

Can anyone tell me what refrigerators the Kraft company used to ship their products in the 1950s? A check of the ORER for 1958 shows no Kraft refrigerators, suggesting that the used leased cars without their own reporting marks.

Kind regards,


Garth G. Groff


Re: HO wheels (again) (was Re: A very short intro...)

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

But why did the NMRA make
an entry for .054 which is even narrower than prototypical .063 ?<
This is just a SWAG but I'm thinking this is maybe for N scale???????

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: HO wheels (again) (was Re: A very short intro...)

Tim O'Connor
 

Jon, thank you. I didn't know that.... But why did the NMRA make
an entry for .054 which is even narrower than prototypical .063 ?

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Jon Miller" <atsf@inow.com>
That
.009 difference between the true scale width and the .072 must have
been why. But I think the NMRA only covers the .088 profile correct?<
Actually .072 is within the RP25 as code 72. Tire width of .072 with a
flange depth of .020. See this for the table;

http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp25.html


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: HO wheels (again) (was Re: A very short intro...)

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

That
.009 difference between the true scale width and the .072 must have
been why. But I think the NMRA only covers the .088 profile correct?<
Actually .072 is within the RP25 as code 72. Tire width of .072 with a
flange depth of .020. See this for the table;

http://www.nmra.org/standards/rp25.html


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Re: Proto track and wheel standards...was Re: Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

In fact such turnouts will not work at all under NMRA stds even if you
had the space, time, talent, and inclination to build one. The points
would be so long that they would get bent by passing locos and the frog
would be so long that wheels (even code 110 wheels) would drop right in
- even the wheels of steam era freight cars. To overcome these
problems you would have to use hardened steel points and fine scale
stds.


regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 1:31 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: Proto track and wheel standards...was Re: [STMFC] Re: A
very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Mike Brock wrote:
The frog sizes for the turnout at Dale Jct on Sherman Hill are number
20.
I remember reading about an SP track improvement program, in
which No. 16 crossovers in Nevada were being replaced with No. 20. This

is a little beyond what most modelers can or will do <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




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Re: Proto track and wheel standards...was Re: Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Andy Carlson
 

Yes, High Speed cross-overs are large numbered
switches, but keep this in mind- most switches in use
are not High Speed cross overs but regular switches.
Check out frog ratios when you next visit some real
trackage. Simply pace out 10 large steps, then measure
the divergent gap with your same step. You might find
that prototypical switches are mostly closer to # 8s
than 16s or 20s. We had a yard in So CA which had # 6s
until it was removed.

Our biggest deviance from the real railroad is in our
track radius.

-Andy Carlson

--- Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com>
wrote:

Mike Brock wrote:
The frog sizes for the turnout at Dale Jct on
Sherman Hill are number
20.
I remember reading about an SP track
improvement program, in
which No. 16 crossovers in Nevada were being
replaced with No. 20. This
is a little beyond what most modelers can or will do
<g>.


Re: wood vs styrene (was a very short intro)

Roger Robar <rrobar@...>
 

Thanks Dennis, I couldn't have said it any better myself. We used 5/8" bolts
with large heavy washers on the flat car project I talked about in my
original post.

Roger Robar



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Dennis Storzek
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:26 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: wood vs styrene (was a very short intro)



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tony Thompson <thompsonmarytony@...> wrote:

Sounds good, Tim, but 'tain't so. Many flat car drawings show
interlocking or T&G planking; and every photo I've ever seen sure looks
like it is laid real tight. I've never seen any crown, either. Anyway,
most expansion from damp is along the grain, and that's across the deck
width, not along the deck from board to board.
I can't let this one pass uncorrected. You've got it exactly backwards,
Tony; wood is relatively stable along the length of the grain, but shrinks
and swells appreciably across the grain. This is useful for making barrels,
water tanks, and hot tubs water tight; simply fit the boards to be a good
fit when dry, then fill with water. As the wood swells, it expands against
the steel hoops and tightens to the point that it doesn't leak.

How does this affect flatcar decks? It doesn't. Just like the barrel bands
and tank hoops, the flatcar frame is so much stronger than the amount of
pressure generated by the swelling wood that the wood just compresses. It
doesn't tear loose from its fastenings because the fastenings are HUGE;
1/2" or 5/8" diameter bolts as I recall.

Why drain the deck at all? Railroad cars rarely sit dead level, and anyway
the water will just shake or blow off a moving car. Years ago, when I
worked for the transit authority, we always wedged or jacked platform
decking tight; gaps between the boards were considered a tripping hazard.
Evaporation was relied on to dry the deck surface.


Dennis Storzek




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Re: Proto track and wheel standards...was Re: Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
The frog sizes for the turnout at Dale Jct on Sherman Hill are number 20.
I remember reading about an SP track improvement program, in which No. 16 crossovers in Nevada were being replaced with No. 20. This is a little beyond what most modelers can or will do <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749

S. Busch <SCSBusch@...>
 

Thanks, Tim !

- Steve

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim O'Connor" <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] DL&W 40' 1937 AAR boxcars 51400-51749


CDS #367 (HO scale)
At 01:17 PM 3/15/2006, you wrote:
That's a nice looking car! I'd like to make a copy, too.
Does anyone besides Champion have decals for it ??
Thanks --
Steve Busch
Duncan, SC


Re: HO wheels (again) (was Re: A very short intro...)

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis, NWSL used to sell some wheelsets with a .072 tread and RP-25
flanges. These do work on ordinary trackwork -- I had some cars on a
club layout for a couple of years and they never had any problems. That
.009 difference between the true scale width and the .072 must have
been why. But I think the NMRA only covers the .088 profile correct?

That's not quite right either. The proper name for the NMRA RP-25 wheel
that is .088" wide is "Code 88", as defined in NMRA RP-25.

The NWSL PROTO:HO wheelsets are bastard mix of scale size wheels (the same
wheel profile that they sell as P:87) mounted on the axle to the
NMRA S-4.2 back-to-back dimension. The intention was to create a wheelset
that would work through turnouts built to NMRA S-3 standards (properly
gauged P:87 wheels come nowhere near the gaurdrails). The problem is that
while the PROTO:HO wheels are properly guarded, the narrow tread drops into
the frog and gets lost, never to return. Filling the frog doesn't help, as
the P:87 flange depth is less than half the RP-25 standard, and so once
modified, standard wheels can't use the track anymore. As a compromise
design, it just doesn't work.

Dennis Storzek


Re: wood vs styrene (was a very short intro)

Doug Brown <g.brown1@...>
 

Tony, Just imagine wood trestles if you were right <G>. Doug

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Friday, March 17, 2006 11:16 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: wood vs styrene (was a very short intro)


Dennis Storzek wrote:
I can't let this one pass uncorrected. You've got it exactly
backwards, Tony; wood is relatively stable along the length of the
grain, but shrinks and swells appreciably across the grain.
Dennis is right and I was wrong. I was confusing the shrinkage
with strength data I was using recently.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history




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Re: WFE/FGE Reefer Hatch Latches/Hatch props

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes I know -- the Tichy latches are for the PFE R-40-4. I guess
I should have said "those particular PFE R-30-18 latches" ?
^^^^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^

At 12:18 PM 3/17/2006, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Andy, those PFE latches are a different style.
Calling them "PFE" won't do, because PFE used both styles at
different times.

Tony Thompson


Proto track and wheel standards...was Re: Re: A very short intro and a heckava lot of questions...

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor responds to:



It looks like the Proto:88 wheelsets are best route to go.
With:

Rich, if you use that terminology you're going to confuse the
Proto:87 modelers!
Not only them...but a few others as well.

The Reboxx and other .088 profile wheels are
not prototypical -- they are NMRA RP conforming wheelsets.
Well...like Dennis Storzek notes...I don't think this is totally accurate. I haven't found a "code 88" wheel yet that conforms to the NMRA RP-25 code 88 wheel. The term "code 88" [ an NMRA term ] refers to the width of the total wheel...flange plus tread. At least some wheels appear to be code 88 treads [ RP-25 width of .063" ] with code 110 flanges. Such a wheel will operate successfully through frogs built to NMRA Track Standard 3.2 as long as the frog is less than that associated with a number 10 turnout. As the distance between the point of the frog to the wing rail increases...and it does as frog numbers increase...the distance that the wheel's tread must travel to find the wing rail for support increases. A wider tread permits the tread to reach this support sooner than that of a more narrow one. Track flangeways built to NMRA Standard 3.2 are designed to accomodate the wheel tread of a code 110 wheel. The so-called code 88 wheel [ with code 110 flange ] will present a more accurate appearance with its more narrow wheel tread but when a more accurate sized turnout is used, the wheel will fall into the gap between the point of the frog and wing rail. Note that a number 10 turnout frog...larger than probably 99% of those used by modelers...is too small for prototypical mainline function and is primarily of industrial siding size. The frog sizes for the turnout at Dale Jct on Sherman Hill are number 20.

I should note as well that there might, indeed, be real code 88 wheels being produced. I would use them on frogs built to NMRA S-3.2 with concern.

Tim continues with:

Proto:87 wheelset will not run on NMRA standard trackwork.
Tim probably refers to NMRA Tracdk Standard S-3.2. The NMRA has a track standard for Proto 87...S-3.1 and wheels built to Proto 87 standards will run on track built to such standards.

Mike Brock


lube oil in the steam era

ed_mines
 

Didn't cars use much more oil years ago? I remember a neighbor had
a '48 or '49 car when I was a kid in the mid '50s and he was always
putting oil in his car from a box of glass bottles with metal tops
which he would get refilled.

I have no recollection of my father ever putting oil in his car; it
must have been done much less frequently at a service station.

Maybe our neighbors car burned lube oil with the gas like a lawn
mover, either by design or circumstance.

Were triple dome tank cars were used to transport lube oil in bulk?
That way a smaller shipment could be sent.


Ed


Re: WFE/FGE Reefer Hatch Latches/Hatch props

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Andy, those PFE latches are a different style. The original request
was, I think, looking for the TICHY/SUNSHINE style latches which have
a series of holes in them, presumably for pinning the hatches open at
any desired angle. The later latches are a "ratchet" style with stops
for holding the hatches open.
Calling them "PFE" won't do, because PFE used both styles at different times.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history

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