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Re: Plywood reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Three possibilities come to mind . . . 3) the sheets moved after installation due
to the car frame twisting and "weaving", forcing the edges of the sheets
together.
In a steel-framed car? All of the PFE cars sheathed with plywood were of that type.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Plywood reefers II

Tim O'Connor
 

No, no, Dennis, the -OTHER- book! :-)

Dennis, are you aware of the horizontally grooved plywood
that PFE tried out? Photos in the book.
What book? I'm not finding it in "The Great Yellow Fleet".
Dennis Storzek


Re: Naperville Question

Tim O'Connor
 

Hey Mike, this post sounds awfully political to me... and if you
don't step in here I will weigh in on the side of the tax man!

Tim "taxes are WAY too low" O'Connor

For those driving from the East, it would be advisable to make a pit
stop at the last rest stop on the Indiana Toll Road - according to Rand
McNally, construction is still going on I-80/I-94 south of Chicago.

Also, tolls on the Illinois Taxway have increased from forty cents to
eighty cents per Toll (a total of $2.40 for the three tolls) according
to the Taxway's Web Site unless you have I-Pass which is, apparently,
good only in Illinois.

Hoping that the Web Site is incorrect, Tim Gilbert


Re: Naperville Question

joe binish <joebinish@...>
 

At the risk of irritating the boss,
My family and I (me driving, wife, 4 kids under 10) spent 3 hours counting
cracks along 80/94 this August. Don't try to get from Gary to Winfield(n of
Naperville) on a Friday @ 3! All those people went to Iowa! Tolls are up,
a few on the north side were $1.
Joe Binish


Re: Naperville Question

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

For those driving from the East, it would be advisable to make a pit stop at the last rest stop on the Indiana Toll Road - according to Rand McNally, construction is still going on I-80/I-94 south of Chicago.

Also, tolls on the Illinois Taxway have increased from forty cents to eighty cents per Toll (a total of $2.40 for the three tolls) according to the Taxway's Web Site unless you have I-Pass which is, apparently, good only in Illinois.

Hoping that the Web Site is incorrect, Tim Gilbert


Re: Plywood reefers II

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Care to offer a citation to info on the Soo Line plywood covered
boxcars? ...
There was a photo in Railway Age, I think in the late 1930s. I've
recently been browsing the RA volumes looking for additional freight
car stuff, but wasn't specifically interested in the Soo cars. If you
want me to look back for a citation, I'll do so. The photo was one of
the "Fowler" cars.
Obviously not successful, because it didn't seem to be repeated. Yes, I'd like the citation, and possibly a copy of the article, or at least the photo and caption, at your convenience.

This plywood has
strips of rough sawn veneer on the face ply, which hold paint well,
separated by grooves to make it look like boards....
Dennis, are you aware of the horizontally grooved plywood
that PFE tried out? Photos in the book.
What book? I'm not finding it in "The Great Yellow Fleet".


Dennis Storzek


Re: Naperville Question

Larry Kline
 

I am traveling from Midway to Naperville by public transportation. CTA
from Midway to the loop. A short walk to the METRA station. METRA from
the loop to Naperville. And a long walk, or Holiday Inn pickup, from
the Naperville RR station to the Holiday Inn. The total cost is $5 or
$6. The travel time is several hours (of railfanning). CTA and Metra
info are online.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

I investigated flying into O'Hare or Midway for Naperville. The
> Holiday Inn does not have a shuttle to either O'Hare or Midway.
> Hiring a limousine, which one must book in advance, was cheaper than
> a taxi but still around fifty bucks as I now recall. I found
> limousine services online.
> Gene Green


Re: LV hoppers in 1945

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

Ed and Group,

I've posted a scan in the Files section under LV 15041. In the
book, you can make out the car number. I have to caution that it
could have been "45XXX" instead of "15XXX" (I said it wasn't a GOOD
photo!), however I don't see a 45000 series car which fits this
description in Mr. Shaller's car list.
One interesting thing is that there are additional diagonals on
the extreme end panels.
One note: I find it interesting that the railroads continued to
use diagonals in compression, especially on hopper cars. It's
understandable on box cars since the crossbearers change the way in
which the side panel trusses are loaded. However, on a hopper car,
there is no inturruption in the side panels, so a Pratt truss would
truly put the diagonals in tension. I guess that the argument could
be made that if the diagonals were in tension, then the verticals
would be in compression, so one piece or the other ends up loaded as
a column. On the other hand, the verticals are the shorter of the
two members, and so would have greater buckling strength for the
same cross section.

Hope the photo is of some use!
Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@y...> wrote:
Phil-
I haven't located the photo you sent but from the description it
sounds like what I described as a #7 - a unique looking car with
diagonal braces extending below the SLOPE sheets.

Ed


Re: Plywood reefers

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@s...> wrote:

I'm sure Greg is right. The PFE documents did refer to "curling,
checking and cracking," but as it happens the shop sketch I saw did
have about a 1/8 inch gap between the plywood sheets. Is that an
inadequate gap, Greg? That gap was in addition to the T-section metal
seal strip (with the "leg" of the T down between the sheets).
As for it being an "installation error," I have no doubt that
PFE followed the instructions of the Douglas Fir Plywood Association --
whatever they may have been <g>.
Three possibilities come to mind. 1) the drawing calls for the 1/8" gap, but the shops mis-interpreted this as being the gap FOR the metal trim, rather than IN ADDITION TO it. 2) the shops installed the plywood with the specified gap, but the gap, while adequate for house construction, was inadequate for railroad service. 3) the sheets moved after installation due to the car frame twisting and "weaving", forcing the edges of the sheets together.

I am not aware that the Soo Line gave this any consideration when the recovered their cabooses, but then again, the plywood was so far from the car frame, being attached to the ild siding, that it likely just shifted towards the end of the car when it expanded from moisture.

I kind of wonder why the Ply-Metal Company didn't jump in here with their metal faced wood laminate. Ply-Metal was adopted early on by Electro-Motive for side sheets on F and E units, and seemed to give good service. I suppose the extra cost and weight made it non-competitive with plain steel.


Dennis Storzek


Interchange Information Reports

John Swanson <dwlscbq@...>
 

When I was working the Forreston Illinois agency relief on the ICRR in 1966; the agent had a box of stuff he was going to burn when he got back.
I went through it (of course) and found two books where the conductors listed the cars they delivered to the Milwaukee at North Forreston (Forreston Pit).
These books covered from Sept 1, 1950 to June 1952. As a near continuous record of cars delivered in day to day interchange service, at a single location, for a period of 19 months they are rather interesting.
Most include the train, engine, conductor and time.
The Lancaster & Chester had 10 box cars in interchange service and they show up at least twice: NH, D&H and other hoppers loaded with coal going from the IC to the Milw at Forreston ILL; the range of commodities from TV' coal, sisal and so on is alone facinating.

I had these books in the library for years. Then Ted Richardson borrowed them and he has spent the tedious hours of numbing work to put them on CD. (I used to balance the monthly reports and I know just how numbing doing that kind of work can be).

Ted will have these CD's for sale at Naperville and offered by mail later on.
I may well be wrong; it would not be the first time nor last, but I think the listing of the cars themselves, commodities and all the other data will be of great interest to both freight car modelers and those speculating in the operations side of things.
I am tickled because Ted has made these records available to all and the data will not be lost. I am 62 and the facts of life are that, all to often when some passes on. data such as this is lost to all. It is also rather hard to disseminate data from two 55 year old train list books very far before the books themselves start to fall apart.
See Ted at Naperville. I hope this data will be of use to many of you.
On a personal note, I would appreciate any feedback as to whether the books I saved are of use to you.

I was 23 then and still wonder what I may have passed up in that box of stuff those 39 years ago.

John Swanson


New book and Naperville

Ted Schnepf <railsunl@...>
 

Hi Everyone,

Just got in a new book titled Ogden rails and about the railroads of Ogden, Utah. There are several yard views of different eras in which the freight cars make an interesting study. You can see the book at my display on Saturday at Naperville.

I also picked up a collection of several older historical society magazines that I will be bringing to Naperville. The societies are the Chicago North Western, Southern Pacific, Santa Fe, Great Northern, Missouri Pacific and Milwaukee Road. Bring your list of missing copies to help fill out your collection. I also picked up some old Mainline Modelers. If you need a particular issue, I can bring it on Saturday.

The sales at Naperville will only be on Saturday this year. Contact me off line if you want me to bring a particular book or model to the meet.

Hope to see many of you in a few days.

Ted

Rails Unlimited
Ted Schnepf
railsunl@...
847-697-5353 or 5366
126 Will Scarlet
Elgin, Ill. 60120
http://users.foxvalley.net/~railsunl/

Model Railroad Sales and Service with
a personal touch.
Books new and used. HO and O scales.
DCC supplies. O scale urethane cars.
Photos and darkroom services.
Checks, cash (0%) or credit (secure server at web site 3% added).


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Re: Naperville Question

Tim O'Connor
 

I found "American Taxi" online that offers a $35 rate from
O'Hare to Naperville -- 1-800-244-1177 -- time estimated
at 40 minutes.

I investigated flying into O'Hare or Midway for Naperville. The
Holiday Inn does not have a shuttle to either O'Hare or Midway.
Hiring a limousine, which one must book in advance, was cheaper than
a taxi but still around fifty bucks as I now recall. I found
limousine services online.
Gene Green


Re: Naperville Question

bierglaeser <bierglaeser@...>
 

I investigated flying into O'Hare or Midway for Naperville. The
Holiday Inn does not have a shuttle to either O'Hare or Midway.
Hiring a limousine, which one must book in advance, was cheaper than
a taxi but still around fifty bucks as I now recall. I found
limousine services online.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@n...> wrote:

Dave,
You might check to see if the hotel has a shuttle service.
<snip>

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <muskoka@c...> wrote:

I'm attending the Naperville meet for the first time and as
circumstances
have it I need to depart on Saturday evening. Are lots of other
folks
leaving then too or is the mass departure normally on Sunday
afternoon?
A.K.A. I need a ride to the airport and need to know if it'll be
easy to
snag a lift or do I have to make other arraignments? 8-)

Dave Nelson


Re: Naperville Question

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

Dave,
You might check to see if the hotel has a shuttle service.

We have had some great bull sessions on Sat night in rooms the vendors
had vacated. Last year several of us from all across the country and
Canada shared stories. A highlight of the trip.

Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "Dave Nelson" <muskoka@c...> wrote:

I'm attending the Naperville meet for the first time and as
circumstances
have it I need to depart on Saturday evening. Are lots of other
folks
leaving then too or is the mass departure normally on Sunday
afternoon?
A.K.A. I need a ride to the airport and need to know if it'll be
easy to
snag a lift or do I have to make other arraignments? 8-)

Dave Nelson


Re: Freight Car Distribution

Larry Kline
 

Gene Green wrote:
The following book is available on eBay: Freight Car Distribution And Car Handling In The United States by E. W. Coughlin, Manager, Railroad Relations, Car Service Division Association American Railroads, Car Service Division, 1956.
Is anyone familiar with the contents of this book? Is it useful to modelers interested in operation? Would this book help determine which freight cars ought to be seen on my model RR?

Gene,
I have this book and find it very interesting. It explains the rationale for the car service rules in great detail. There are chapters on the annual grain rush, coal car distribution, privately owned tanks and reefers, and the post WW II freight car shortage. The author and his employees traveled around the country advocating for the use of the car service rules, so they apparently were aware that the rules weren't always followed.

This book will give you some ideas for operating your model RR and a little help with which freight car types ought to be seen. It won't help much at all with which railroads should be represented.

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA


Re: old question about roof walks for new members

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Ed,

I asked this question of a MONON car man some time ago. He stated that
when a wood roof walk section was replaced it was painted. He stated
this was particularly important on off line equipment because the owner
could be billed for the paint and labor.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
ed_mines
Sent: Sunday, October 23, 2005 3:41 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] old question about roof walks for new members

Here's an old question about roof walks for new members - Were many
steam era roof walks (particularly wooden roof walks) unpainted? This
is particularly addressed to men who actually were atop the cars.

I've seen a couple of photos were the grain of roof walk planks is
clearly visible and I know that at least a few railroads specified
that the roof walks be unpainted.

Ed Mines







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Freight Car Distribution

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

bierglaeser wrote:


The following book is listed on eBay with auction ending Oct 27 at 14:35 PDT. Freight Car Distribution And Car Handling In The U.S.A. Item number: 4584218001.
Description: Freight Car Distribution And Car Handling In The United States by E. W. Coughlin, Manager, Railroad Relations, Car Service Division
Association American Railroads, Car Service Division, 1956. Hb, blue cloth on boards, good condition, former owner's name at the top of the front free endpaper. 338 pages, 9 1/4" tall.

Is anyone familiar with the contents of this book? Is it useful to modelers interested in operation? Would this book help determine which freight cars ought to be seen on my model RR?
Gene,

I have the book. While presenting a history, the book's primary purpose was the advocacy of a somewhat rigid application of the freight car service rules. Coughlin did not appreciate the helter skelter system of reloading and routing of foreign car empties which became common practice during and after WW II. Like Droege's 1925 FREIGHT TERMINALS & TRAINS book, there is a seemingly endless series of forms. But in the book, there are some nuggets hidden within the text.

Some of Coughlin's proposals were adopted after 1956 when the AAR formed a "police force" to monitor the adherence to the Car Service Rules. How effective this "police force" was is a different question.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Weathering, the effects of location, andotherinteresting stuff

armprem
 

Greg,I was referring to a backlog of deferred maintenance as a result of
wartime conditions.During the war equipment was stretched to the limit.There
was a shortage of spare parts and skilled workmen.It was during this period
that most railroads no longer employed engine wipers.As a result rolling
stock appearance was a secondary consideration.After the war it was catch up
time.This did not occur overnight.Railroad shops were very busy repairing
and replacing worn out equipment.New car orders were gradually being
filled.: Armand Premo <tgregmrtn@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Weathering, the effects of location,
andotherinteresting stuff



Armand you ask...

"Could this have resulted from wartime neglect more than
anything?.Playing
catch-up was a long drawn out process. A "War weary" fleet was slowly
being
repaired or replaced.
Armand Premo"

Armand,

If you are referring to the post and photo and Elden is referring to he
PRR
was in just skirting receivership at the time (as well as the NYC) as the
photo was actually taken after this list allows. The cars are
particularly aging
X29's in an era where unless you were loading tons of 40-foot cars at
grain
elevators you were likely storing them. I can't say that is a good
bellwether
to anything but bad order cars... I am of the camp that most pre wars
cars
were not maintained as often in the post war era as many roads were
buying new
and replacing old. I have seen photos of post war leased cars that were
repainted in newer PRR livery than older pre war cars and the same for
PRR shop
built cars. The industry was changing...

Greg Martin











Yahoo! Groups Links








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Re: Plywood reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Greg Martin writes:
Likely the issue was not a plywood (or also know as Plyscore at the time)
but actually an application error... but at the time there was likely little
know of the issue of application or were not properly relayed to the end user.
When you butt plywood edge to edge and don't leave a gap the aforementioned
condition results... apparent delamination at the edge, which could have been
avoided if properly applied. The sheets must be gapped or the top veneer
can't expand and that causes the top veneer to separate from the veneer below and
causes the top veneer to wrinkle or as Tony puts it "curled" or it may check
or as Tony puts it "cracks" These are all installation errors.
I'm sure Greg is right. The PFE documents did refer to "curling, checking and cracking," but as it happens the shop sketch I saw did have about a 1/8 inch gap between the plywood sheets. Is that an inadequate gap, Greg? That gap was in addition to the T-section metal seal strip (with the "leg" of the T down between the sheets).
As for it being an "installation error," I have no doubt that PFE followed the instructions of the Douglas Fir Plywood Association --
whatever they may have been <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Naperville Question

Richard Hendrickson
 

Apologies to the list for my unfinished answer to Dave Nelson's post. i meant to send it to him off-list but hit the wrong key....

Richard Hendrickson