Date   

Re: Odd Trucks on CGW First Generation Piggyback Flat cars 3735 class (or only one in the pix i can read)

Brian Leppert <b.leppert@...>
 

Gary,

As Richard wrote, these are trucks with "coil-elliptic" springs. Being underneath a 50 ton car, the visible coil-leaf-coil spring arrangement indicates they're the double truss truck version.
Other roads using these trucks include Erie, N&W, C&O, DT&I, WM, BAR, and LNE. Even AC&F built some tank cars equipped with them.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Odd Trucks on CGW First Generation Piggyback Flat cars 3735 class (or only one in the pix i can read)


On Mar 14, 2006, at 4:02 PM, gary laakso wrote:

> I was glancing through my June 1988 issues of Model Railroading and
> there on pages 20 and 21 is a picture of two Chicago Great Western
> flatcars with trailers. The trucks appear to be bettendorf like with
> a huge leaf spring forced in between the 2 springs showing and held in
> by a huge upper truck casting. Is this a CGW home modified truck?
> The flatcar number that is seen is 3735 and the article had nothing on
> the class or numbers of the flatcars.

As Tony Thompson has already pointed out, there's nothing particularly
unusual about these trucks except their combination coil-elliptic
spring arrangement. They were otherwise AAR standard trucks with
spring planks. Coil-elliptic springs were intended to improve riding
qualities; the coil springs and elliptical leaf springs had different
spring rates, so that the likelihood of harmonic oscillation was
greatly reduced, and in addition leaf springs acted as snubbers owing
to the friction between their individual leaves. Symington-Gould were
the most active advocates of coil-elliptic springs among the truck
manufacturers, but others made trucks of this type, and the trucks on
the CGW cars happen to have been produced by Buckeye, as shown in Fig.
2753 (p. 1126) of the 1940 Car Builders' Cyclopedia.

Richard Hendrickson



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Re: NY City - (was Location, Location, Location)

Tim O'Connor
 

Tim Gilbert wrote

Of the 4,925 cars daily arrived in "New Jersey" from the West...
Wow, Tim, if that was the total in 1964, it must have been a
staggering number 20 years earlier! If that's what you call a
desert I'd like to know your definition of "rain forest"...

Tim O'Connor


Re: NY City - (was Location, Location, Location)

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...> wrote:
Of the 4,925 cars daily arrived in "New Jersey" from the West: -
(PRR
-1,800); RDG (500); CNJ (1,000); LV (400); EL DL&W (225); EL -
ERIE
(700) & NYC West Shore (300),

a) 700 were siphoned off and routed onto the Poughkeepsie Bridge: -
from
the PRR (100); CNJ (250); LV (100) and old ERIE (250).
b) 1,180 were terminated in New Jersey short of the waterfront.
c) 334 transferred for lighterage to ships or plants on the
waterfront.
d) 555 terminated on the New Jersey waterfront.
d) 477 delivery of coal transferred into barges.
e) 1,049 interchanged via car float : - 317 to LIRR; 134 to
Brooklyn
Terminal RR's; 197 to the NH via Oak Point; 354 to the NH via Bay
Ridge
(PRR); and 56 interchanged via carfloat to RR Freight Stations in
Manhattan.
f) 622 to Manhattan via car float.

In addition, the NYC's Hudson Division arrived in the Bronx with
500
cars daily: - 100 interchanged with the NH; 125 terminated in the
Bronx
or Westchester; 275 delivered to the West Side of Manhattan.
Tim, were any freight cars delivered from New Jersey to Long Island
(including Brooklyn and Queens which are part of NYCity)at night
using the tunnels leading to Penn station?

Ed


Re: NY City - (was Location, Location, Location)

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Gregg Mahlkov wrote:

Tim,

Are you referring to Manhattan Island (The Borough of Manhattan), or all of New York City in your "desert" comment?
As a commuter, I was quite provincial about the City - Manhattan.

While Manhattan might have been, The Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn weren't. There were four fascinating carfloat connected freight railroads in Brooklyn alone, Jay St. Connecting, BEDT, Bush Terminal, and NY Dock.

On page 8 of Tom Flagg's Volume 1 of NEW YORK HARBOR RR's IN COLOR, there is a car flow chart showing the eastbound traffic through New York in the Fall of 1964. Its the only such flow chart I have seen for New York Harbor so it will have to suffice for the time being albeit its late date.

Of the 4,925 cars daily arrived in "New Jersey" from the West: - (PRR -1,800); RDG (500); CNJ (1,000); LV (400); EL DL&W (225); EL - ERIE (700) & NYC West Shore (300),

a) 700 were siphoned off and routed onto the Poughkeepsie Bridge: - from the PRR (100); CNJ (250); LV (100) and old ERIE (250).
b) 1,180 were terminated in New Jersey short of the waterfront.
c) 334 transferred for lighterage to ships or plants on the waterfront.
d) 555 terminated on the New Jersey waterfront.
d) 477 delivery of coal transferred into barges.
e) 1,049 interchanged via car float : - 317 to LIRR; 134 to Brooklyn Terminal RR's; 197 to the NH via Oak Point; 354 to the NH via Bay Ridge (PRR); and 56 interchanged via carfloat to RR Freight Stations in Manhattan.
f) 622 to Manhattan via car float.

In addition, the NYC's Hudson Division arrived in the Bronx with 500 cars daily: - 100 interchanged with the NH; 125 terminated in the Bronx or Westchester; 275 delivered to the West Side of Manhattan.

Tim Gilbert


Re: Digest Number 3030

Malcolm Laughlin <mlaughlinnyc@...>
 

From: "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Location, Location, Location

For future reference, those with roots there refer to it as
NEW YORK STATE rather than the term originated by residents
A Brooklynite woman once told me that "upstate" started at the
Yonkers/NYC line.
=============================

I can tell you with certainty that upstate means beyond the Catskills. I know because I gre up in Westchester ;-)




Malcolm Laughlin, Editor 617-489-4383
New England Rail Shipper Directories
19 Holden Road, Belmont, MA 02478


Re: ARR

Miller, Andrew S. <asmiller@...>
 

Schuyler,
What do you need to know? I will be in Anchorage on business in about
two weeks (for only two days).

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 12:06 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] ARR

Do we have a resident expert on the Alaska Railroad? Jace, is it you?

SGL




Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Location, Location, Location

Bruce Smith
 

On Mar 15, 2006, at 8:57 AM, Gregg Mahlkov wrote:

Tim,

Are you referring to Manhattan Island (The Borough of Manhattan), or all of
New York City in your "desert" comment?

While Manhattan might have been, The Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn weren't.
There were four fascinating carfloat connected freight railroads in Brooklyn
alone, Jay St. Connecting, BEDT, Bush Terminal, and NY Dock.
And in fact, the docks of Manhattan were "awash" in freight cars for most of the the steam era too. 100s of cars each day were brought to the shores of Manhattan by carfloat to be unloaded, often without the freight cars leaving the floats.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
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|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Location, Location, Location

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Tim,

Are you referring to Manhattan Island (The Borough of Manhattan), or all of New York City in your "desert" comment?

While Manhattan might have been, The Bronx, Queens, and Brooklyn weren't. There were four fascinating carfloat connected freight railroads in Brooklyn alone, Jay St. Connecting, BEDT, Bush Terminal, and NY Dock.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

----------
Tim Gilbert opines:

... As for freight cars, New York City was a desert compared to the rest of the country.


Re: Location, Location, Location

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Anthony Thompson wrote:

Larry Jackman wrote:
As far as NYC people are concerned any where north of the Bronx city
line is UP STATE NEW YORK.
Thus clarifying, if clarification were needed, how parochial are
New Yorkers. <g>
Election Night Commentators have always referred to "upstate New York" as anywhere outside New York City limits including Long Island. And then there is the NEW YORKER magazine cartoon projecting a "New Yawka's" map of the rest of the country - the Wild West starts at the Hudson River.

I could tell a lot of jokes on how parochial New York City is - I worked there and used them on the die-hard, but I won't. As for freight cars, New York City was a desert compared to the rest of the country.

Tim Gilbert


Re: ARR

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Schuyler Larrabee asked:
"Do we have a resident expert on the Alaska Railroad?"

Curt Fortenberry's a list member:
http://www.greatdecals.com/Curt.htm


Ben Hom


Re: Harriman Codes -Some Other RR's Systems

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

On Sat, Mar 11, 2006 at 05:41:44PM -0800, Laird Larry wrote:

Okay... I'm going to try this again... Allen is referring to Great
Northern's General Superintendent of Transportation (GST) Codes. See message
52235. The GST codes were not related to the AAR Mechanical Designations,
nor the AAR Car Type Codes, and the GST codes were not shown in any ORER.
Larry,
The GST codes are not unique to the GN, the backs of NP wheel
reports have them too. Look in the NPTellTale groups files section
under wheel reports, I listed the ones I found.
Which is why I asking, and wondering how far back in time they would go.

Allen also asked...
" What other freight car code systems are there (besides AAR/ORER codes),
did most railroads have some code of their own?"

As Mr. Gilbert has explained, yes. I'd add that most seem to be more
comparable to the aforementioned "Harriman" type which identifies classes
rather than this GN scheme used by the operating employees and appearing on
train lists. Good grief Allen, I've been harping for years about the need
for an X29 on every steam era SP&S layout... Wheredaya think X29 comes from?
A Pennsy guy who doesn't knows how to sign his name :)

--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


Re: Harriman Codes -Some Other RR's Systems

Allen Rueter <allen@...>
 

Thanks for the history Tim,

The scope of wheel reports I've seen is limited, to all hill lines,
except for the Erie ones in the files section from 1931, those
have extra columns, in which it looks like angus502001 is adding more
information, that wasn't on the wheel report, but extracted from
an ORER.

And as Laird Larry point out, and you point out there are errors in
operating personnel codes.

On Sat, Mar 11, 2006 at 07:35:09PM -0500, Tim Gilbert wrote:
Allen Rueter wrote:
8<
Operating personnel, particularly freight train conductors, had their
own codes which they used in the wheel reports, switch lists, etc.. "A"
for Automobile; "B" for Boxcar; "C" for a Coal or Coke Car; "D" or "DD"
for Double Deck Stock Car (later "D" for Side Dump Car); "F" for Flat;
"G" for Gon; "H" for Hoppers (sometimes later "CH" for Covered Hoppers);
"R" for Reefers; "S" for Stock Cars; "T" for Tank Cars. This terminology
was not universal as each individual seemed to have their own ideas of
which variation to use. When I parse a wheel report, I pay little
attention to these codes and rely more on the ORER's Mechanical
Designation.

Hope this helps, Tim Gilbert

--
------
Allen P Rueter o0000o Phone: 314/935-6429 email allen :) artsci.wustl.edu
.oO* there are at least three sides to every issue.


ARR

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Do we have a resident expert on the Alaska Railroad? Jace, is it you?

SGL


Re: Location, Location, Location

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Larry Jackman wrote:
As far as NYC people are concerned any where north of the Bronx city
line is UP STATE NEW YORK.
Thus clarifying, if clarification were needed, how parochial are New Yorkers. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Trucks with couplers

Gregg Mahlkov <mahlkov@...>
 

Paul,

I am an N scaler and unless you are modeling cars with cushion underframes or cars too modern for this list, you want the trucks with short extension couplers. The old MTL 1000 was the standard AAR truck, which MTL refers to as Bettendorf. It is also available in brown and with low profile wheels.

You can buy them by the ten pack. MTL also makes Andrews trucks, archbar trucks, AAR trucks with coil ellitpic springs, 70 ton roller bearing trucks, 100 ton roller bearing trucks, which they refer to as "Barber" with the wrong sized wheel (33", not 36"), Allied Full Cushion trucks, BX express trucks and Dalman trucks, with the latter two NOT available with short extension couplers, only medium extension couplers.

Atlas makes 4 trucks with Accumates, a 50 ton AAR truck, a 70 ton AAR truck, a 70 roller bearing truck, and a 100 ton roller bearing truck with the correct 36" wheels.

Yes, it's a lot easier to get close to the correct trucks under a car in N scale than it used to be. Fox trucks anyone? I've got one pair and sideframes for two more. Some guys do amazing work and share.

Gregg Mahlkov
Florida's Forgotten Coast

----------
Paul Toscano asked:

Hi,
Basically am looking for spare trucks with couplers to be used
with Atlas and Micro Trains steam era N scale freight cars.

Would anyone be able to let me know the difference among the items
below? I am especialy concerned about the long and short extension
couplers.



Thanks,

Paul

ATLAS

22051 Friction Bearing Trucks w/Accumate Couplers (1 pair)
Atlas: ACCUMATE Trucks & Couplers

22056 Roller Bearing Trucks w/ Accumate Couplers (1 pair)
Atlas: ACCUMATE Trucks & Couplers

22071 100-Ton Roller Bearing Trucks w/ Accumate Couplers (1 Pair)
Atlas: ACCUMATE Trucks & Couplers


MicroTrains

Bettendorf trucks seem to be in order but which of the following
would do?

00302021 Bettendorf Trucks w/ Short Extension Couplers
Previous Micro-Trains # 1000

00302025 Bettendorf Trucks w/ Low Profile Wheels
Previous Micro-Trains # 1004

00302026 Bettendorf w/ Low Profile Wheels, Short Ext. Cplr.
Previous Micro-Trains # 1000-1

I would also to keep in stock a few of the following but need to
know whether long or short extrended couplers are needed.

00302001 Archbar Trucks w/ Short Extension Couplers
Previous Micro-Trains # 1010

00302004 Archbar Trucks w/ Long Extended Couplers
Previous Micro-Trains # 1012


00302011 Andrews Trucks w/ Short Extension Couplers
Previous Micro-Trains # 1052

00302012 Andrews Trucks w/ Medium Extension Couplers
Previous Micro-Trains # 1053

00302016 Andrews w/ Short Ext. Couplers, Low Profile Wheels
Previous Micro-Trains # 1052-1


Bay Area Prototype Modelers event - April 30, 2006

Rob Sarberenyi <espeef5@...>
 

You are invited to attend the 3rd annual Bay Area Prototype Modelers (BAPM)
event on Sunday, April 30, 2006 from 10 AM - 5 PM at the Marriott Hotel in Fremont, California.

Presented by: Elizabeth Allen, Thom Anderson, Ryan Martin, Bob Pires, Dave Pires, Rob Sarberenyi, and Harry Wong

This Railroad Prototype Modeler (RPM) event is open to model railroaders of
all roads, scales, and eras. Finished models, along with those still
in-progress, are encouraged and welcome for display. No need to reserve
table space, we'll have plenty of room for you to arrive and set-up your
display. There is no judging or contest, instead RPM events provide an
opportunity to meet with fellow modelers, discuss tips and techniques,
attend informative clinics, and of course enjoy viewing lots of superb
models!

BAPM 2006 features:
* More than 3,700 sq. ft. of display space... over 3 times last year's!
* Hundreds of detailed models on display
* Four in-depth clinics (see below)
* Operating Free-mo modular layouts
* Manufacturers on-site with displays and merchandise for sale
* Raffle for great prizes from Major Model Railroad Manufacturers
* Social area to chat with friends and other modelers

Featured presenters and clinics:
* Elizabeth Allen -- "Flares": Modeling SP's EMD SD45s
* Thom Anderson -- Modeling Western Pacific Covered Hoppers
* Gene Fusco, Rail Yard Models -- Building Urethane Resin Kits
* Tony Thompson -- Pennsy Modeling without Brain Damage

When: Sunday, April 30, 2006
10:00 AM - 5:00 PM

Where: Fremont Marriott Hotel
46100 Landing Parkway
Fremont CA 94538
Phone: (510) 413-3700
http://www.fremontmarriott.com
Hotel Reservations: 1-800-228-9290

Admission: Only $20 dollars, or $18 if you bring at least one model to
display.

Pre-registration is strongly encouraged, though not required. Visit our
website for additional details and registration instructions
http://www.bayareaprototypemodelers.org

Questions or more information? Please visit our website, or contact me.

Rob Sarberenyi
espeef5@pacbell.net


Re: Location, Location, Location

ljack70117@...
 

As far as NYC people are concerned any where north of the Bronx city
line is UP STATE NEW YORK.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net

On Mar 14, 2006, at 6:30 PM, Justin Kahn wrote:


For future reference, those with roots there refer to it as NEW
YORK STATE
rather than the term originated by residents of Sodom-on-the
Hudson, which
they have persuaded the rest of the world through sheer numbers and
control
of mass-media is a valid locution for the location. I used to
insist there
was no such thing as "upstate," but on reconsideration over the
years, I
have accepted that there is--it is the region of perhaps a hundred mile
radius from that primeval gotham and under its influence.
But there are no salt deposits there.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.


Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2006 00:19:51 +0000
From: timboconnor@comcast.net
Subject: Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

Other than lower Michigan, the Kansas City area, and upstate
New York, what other areas of the country produce rock salt in
great quantities? And was rock salt as popular for road use in
the 1950's as it became in later years?

Tim O.
_________________________________________________________________
Don’t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/




Yahoo! Groups Links






Re: Illinois Central box car

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Arnold van Heyst asked:
"I'm looking for a typical Illinois Central box car, situated around
1955. Not the one manufactured by major manufacturers, but a real
typical Illinois Central."

I take this to mean that you're looking for a signature IC car, not
an AAR-design boxcar. You're in luck - IC 10000-13958 and 14000-
15488 were originally door and a half boxcars built in 1924 and
1926, but were later converted into general service boxcars by
sheathing over the auxiliary door opening. This created a "blank"
panel with no diagonal truss member, making this a distinctive car
unique to the Illinois Central.


"Do I have to go to Westerfield/Funaro/Sunshine?"

Yes - Funaro #6270:
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6270.html

See Ted Culotta's "Essential Freight Cars 17: Illinois Central
Single-sheathed Automobile Cars" in the November 2004 issue of
Railroad Model Craftsman for more prototype information plus tips on
how to get the most out of the Funaro kit.


Ben Hom


Re: Covered hopper bulk loads

Schuyler Larrabee
 

There are salt mines underneath Hutchinson, KS. To us
Jayhawkers, Hutch isn't "in the Kansas City area", but to
someone back east, that may be good enough.

Regards,

-Jeff
Well, it's in that quadrilateral shape . . . And it's where the JUCO champeenships are every year.

SGL


Re: Location, Location, Location

Schuyler Larrabee
 

For future reference, those with roots there refer to it as
NEW YORK STATE rather than the term originated by residents
of Sodom-on-the Hudson, which they have persuaded the rest of
the world through sheer numbers and control of mass-media is
a valid locution for the location. I used to insist there
was no such thing as "upstate," but on reconsideration over
the years, I have accepted that there is--it is the region of
perhaps a hundred mile radius from that primeval gotham and
under its influence.
But there are no salt deposits there.
Jace Kahn, General Manager
Ceres and Canisteo RR Co.
A Brooklynite woman once told me that "upstate" started at the Yonkers/NYC line.

SGL

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