Date   

Re: Old Athearn Gon

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 30, 2005, at 4:10 PM, gary roe wrote:

I read the following information on another list:

"Also, the old Athearn gon is a close match to a Wabash prototype."

I never thought that it was that close. Does this person's definition
of "close" mean that the prototype and the old Athearn gon both have 2
sides, 2 ends, 4 axles, and a brake wheel; or am I missing something?
Gary, the Athearn mill gondola was completely bogus, a free-lanced model designed to use the same underframe and floor weight as the 50' flat car. If it even remotely resembles any gondola owned by the Wabash, I'll buy you a Goose Island at Naperville next year.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Hurricane Season

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 30, 2005, at 4:27 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

We can all offer three cheers of relief to Mike Brock on the
end of hurricane season . . . for this year, anyway . . . see you in
January, Mike.
Yeah, but I hear that locusts are coming in droves to the SE states. Better take bug spray to Cocoa Beach.

Richard Hendrickson


photos of N&W class B7a box cars

Fred Mullins
 

folks,
I have been told that the N&W class B7a box cars had radial stlye roofs
on them. But I don't know what they look like. Does anybody know of any
photos showing this detail?
Thanks for any help!
Fred Mullins
modeling the Atlantic & Danville
remember "For Service See......the A&D!"


Re: Old Athearn Gon

benjaminfrank_hom <b.hom@...>
 

Gary Roe wrote:
"I read the following information on another list:

'Also, the old Athearn gon is a close match to a Wabash prototype.'

I never thought that it was that close. Does this person's definition
of "close" mean that the prototype and the old Athearn gon both have 2
sides, 2 ends, 4 axles, and a brake wheel; or am I missing something?"

You're not. The example you quoted is the downside of e-mail groups -
they disseminate information quickly to a wide audience;
unfortunately, the information is only as good as the person posting
it, and if he/she didn't do their homework, misinformation is what
ends up getting spread around all too quickly.

Earlier this month, we beat the terminology horse to death, made glue,
and used up the barrel; however, the underlying message behind it is
still very important: once planted in the popular consciousness,
misinformation is very hard to root out.

I've always held that if you post information on these lists, you owe
the audience due diligence in checking out your facts. In response,
I've been told by some that "nobody owes anybody anything" and
that "it's only a hobby". However, consider the following:

- How many otherwise good models have been ruined by so-
called "expert" help that didn't do their homework? (Exhibit A: Gould
Tank Car)

- There are enough hobby myths out there. We really don't need to add
to them.

Off the soapbox and back to Gary's question: for a model out of the
box, your first impression is correct; however, if you cut away the
fishbelly and replace the ends, there is a Wabash prototype that can
be represented. On the pay side of the RPI website, there's a photo
of WAB 11000 from a 1925 issue of Railway Age:
http://railroad.union.rpi.edu/rolling-stock/gons/Gons-Wabash-14-panel-
Railway-Age-1-3-25.jpg

(I'm sure hoping Chet can add info about these gons!)

The rib spacing is different, but it's a possibility for a "guilt-
free" kitbash of any Athearn gons you might have on hand.


Ben Hom


Re: Hurricane Season

ljack70117@...
 

On Nov 30, 2005, at 7:27 PM, Tony Thompson wrote:

We can all offer three cheers of relief to Mike Brock on the
end of hurricane season . . . for this year, anyway . . . see you in
January, Mike.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
The official end of the season is November 30th but the storms do not know that. There is one out there right now. #5 of the Greek alphabet. Please do not hold your breath for the end of the season this year. A record season and as they say "records are made to be broken".
But they are better than earthquakes. You can see them coming and do something.
Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@adelphia.net
The 50-50-90 Rule: Anytime you have 50-50 chance of getting something right, there is 90% probability you'll get it wrong.


Re: Birmingham, AL

Aidrian Bridgeman-Sutton <smokeandsteam@...>
 

An unbelievable number of
railroads running through, around and into town. <<

One of the main reasons I chose this area to model. Other reasons were
some fascinating passenger operations and the decided bonus of extensive
mineral and foundry traffic right next to the terminal station and an
awful lot of usable freightcar models.

You may want to take a look at the 1935 railroad map published on
www.bhamrails.info; I have a blueprint of the same map and it make for a
fascinating study piece.

Aidrian


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11/30/2005


Hurricane Season

Tony Thompson
 

We can all offer three cheers of relief to Mike Brock on the end of hurricane season . . . for this year, anyway . . . see you in January, Mike.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Old Athearn Gon

Gary Roe
 

I read the following information on another list:

"Also, the old Athearn gon is a close match to a Wabash prototype."


I never thought that it was that close. Does this person's definition
of "close" mean that the prototype and the old Athearn gon both have 2
sides, 2 ends, 4 axles, and a brake wheel; or am I missing something?

gary roe


Re: NYC Wreck at Elyria OH

Raymond E. Russell Sr.
 

In a message dated 11/30/2005 5:31:31 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
STMFC@yahoogroups.com writes:

Interesting images on http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/new27-03dec.html

Six images of an NYC Wreck at Amherst OH in 1950s from the Robert
Colvig Photo collection.

Thirteen images of an NYC Wreck at Elyria OH in 1950s from the Robert
Colvig Photo collection.



Could you imagine being the poor guy in the tower while this was happening?
Talk about no where to hide! LOL

Ray Russell
NMRA-40609
"Norfolk & Western Railroad" "Pocahontas Division" "Circa 1958"
Visit The "NEW" Pocahontas Web site at:
_http://members.aol.com/rruss45826/public_html/index.html_
(http://members.aol.com/rruss45826/public_html/index.html)


Re: Chooch Heavy Cable Spools (HOW heavy are they?)

Tim Gilbert <tgilbert@...>
 

Scott Pitzer wrote:

That makes sense, but then again someone might be using that flat car as a "stand-in" for a 70 ton car. But let's see... the Load Limit for the PM gon is about 126000 pounds, and I don't think one of those cable reels and associated crating and blocking could weigh anywhere close to 63000 pounds... could it?
Scott Pitzer
Scott,

If the load limit of a PM Gon is 126,000 pounds, then the gon's light weight would be 43,000 pounds for gons having "50-ton" trucks, or 84,000 pounds for gons having "70-ton" trucks since Load Limit is the difference between Gross Rolling Weight (169,000 pounds for 50-ton trucks & 210,000 pounds for 70-ton trucks). In my opinion, the PM Gons you are referring to had "50-ton" trucks.

Next question is how much did each cable reel weigh. If Tim O'Connor's 22 tons/spool calculation is assumed to be correct (& I do not have the data to refute it), and then the weight of the cribbing etc. is added, the weight of the load should still be well under the 126,000 ton Load Limit of the PM Gon with 50-ton trucks.

Now if the weight of each cable reel was in the 30 ton range, then a car with 70-ton trucks would have to be used - the cribbing would be considered to be part of the load limit, and not the light weight of the car unless the cribbing was permanently attached to the car.

Tim Gilbert



-----Original Message-----
From: al_brown03 <abrown@fit.edu>
Sent: Nov 30, 2005 2:37 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Chooch Heavy Cable Spools (HOW heavy are they?)

Not if that's a 50 ton flat they're pictured on ... :-)

(snap reaction after only a half-cup of coffee)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

I was considering these as a load for a 40' gon with wood floor
(Sunshine Pere Marquette):

http://www.choochenterprises.com/html/7246_heavy_cable_spools.html

I think they would look better in a gon than on a flat because of
the "simulated" open space along the bottom (I hate to sand that
stuff too much.) As far as length, I can fit two spools in the car
if I remove 4" from the end of the blocking of one, and put that end
in the center up against the other one, as if the two spools are
sharing the center section. Maybe I'm not explaining that well, but
my main question is, Would two spools be too heavy for a 50 ton car?


Stations & Reweigh Symbols, Rev. #3

armprem
 

I hope that Marty will add this information to his list of decal
sets.ArmandPremo

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Thompson" <thompsonmarytony@sbcglobal.net>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 5:06 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Stations & Reweigh Symbols, Rev. #3


Jim, the SP marks for LA and LAG are not interchangeable, as the
list implies. There was a scale at Taylor Yard, a couple of miles from
LA General Shops (LAG symbol), and cars weighed there were marked LA.
In the same way, ELP (El Paso) is not interchangeable with ELPG (El
Paso General Shops), which should be added to the list. Another
addition needed is BS for Bayshore Shops, again not interchangeable
with SF for San Francisco. Many cars reweighed at San Francisco and
receiving the SF mark were handled at Mission Bay Yard, in the city.
On the T&NO the location of the HO symbol should be Houston
<g>. Algiers, Louisiana (ALG) should be added too.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history





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Re: Chooch Heavy Cable Spools (HOW heavy are they?)

Tim O'Connor
 

Those are big spools -- say 6' ID and 8' OD x 4' wide. So you have
8 cubic feet of steel x the circumference of the spool (Pi * 7' avg)
or roughly 22 x 8 = 176 cubic feet of steel (less air space depending
on the type of wire rope on the spool). Say 50% air space or 88 cft
of steel... at approx 500 lbs/cft of steel, that's 44,000 lbs per spool.

http://www.reade.com/Particle_Briefings/spec_gra2.html

Tim O.

That makes sense, but then again someone might be using that flat car as a
"stand-in" for a 70 ton car. But let's see... the Load Limit for the PM gon is
about 126000 pounds, and I don't think one of those cable reels and associated
crating and blocking could weigh anywhere close to 63000 pounds... could it?
Scott Pitzer


Stations & Reweigh Symbols, Rev. #3

Tony Thompson
 

Jim, the SP marks for LA and LAG are not interchangeable, as the list implies. There was a scale at Taylor Yard, a couple of miles from LA General Shops (LAG symbol), and cars weighed there were marked LA. In the same way, ELP (El Paso) is not interchangeable with ELPG (El Paso General Shops), which should be added to the list. Another addition needed is BS for Bayshore Shops, again not interchangeable with SF for San Francisco. Many cars reweighed at San Francisco and receiving the SF mark were handled at Mission Bay Yard, in the city.
On the T&NO the location of the HO symbol should be Houston <g>. Algiers, Louisiana (ALG) should be added too.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Chooch Heavy Cable Spools (HOW heavy are they?)

Scott Pitzer
 

That makes sense, but then again someone might be using that flat car as a "stand-in" for a 70 ton car. But let's see... the Load Limit for the PM gon is about 126000 pounds, and I don't think one of those cable reels and associated crating and blocking could weigh anywhere close to 63000 pounds... could it?
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: al_brown03 <abrown@fit.edu>
Sent: Nov 30, 2005 2:37 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Chooch Heavy Cable Spools (HOW heavy are they?)

Not if that's a 50 ton flat they're pictured on ... :-)

(snap reaction after only a half-cup of coffee)

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Scott Pitzer <scottp459@e...> wrote:

I was considering these as a load for a 40' gon with wood floor
(Sunshine Pere Marquette):

http://www.choochenterprises.com/html/7246_heavy_cable_spools.html

I think they would look better in a gon than on a flat because of
the "simulated" open space along the bottom (I hate to sand that
stuff too much.) As far as length, I can fit two spools in the car
if I remove 4" from the end of the blocking of one, and put that end
in the center up against the other one, as if the two spools are
sharing the center section. Maybe I'm not explaining that well, but
my main question is, Would two spools be too heavy for a 50 ton car?

Scott Pitzer








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Re: North American Tank stenciling: white or silver?

Scott Pitzer
 

By the way, the car with the added dome platform, with railings, seems to have been weighed in 1960, not 1966 (according to my eyes) so it may fit into our time period-- barely.
Scott Pitzer

-----Original Message-----
From: lnbill <bwelch@uucf.org>
Sent: Nov 30, 2005 12:31 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] North American Tank stenciling: white or silver?

Inspired by Richard's article in RPMJ, I am building the North American
tank car model combining the Tichy underframe with the InterMountain
tank,


Re: 40 ft plug door reefers (was:Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondo...

SUVCWORR@...
 

In a message dated 11/30/2005 7:32:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
asmiller@mitre.org writes:
I had forgotten about those Rich. I have been looking for them during
my travels, but hadn't seen anything from C&BT for some time. Wasn't
the owner quite ill? I remember he had produced test shot of PRR
X29b's (and d's), a car I have wanted for some time, but the final
product never materialized.

regards,

Andy Miller
Andy,

Yes, Dick Schweiger was very ill for sometime. He had a lung transplant a
few years ago. Since then he has been selling off his remaining inventory
through Walther's. AFAIK Dick is not selling to any other distributor or directly
to dealers. I'll try to get in touch with Dick and see if he has any of the
PD cars left.

As for the X29b and d, the body and roof dies were complete. His die cutter
was having a difficult time with the floor. Then Dick became ill and it all
was set aside. This was several years ago.

Rich Orr


Re: Stations & Reweigh Symbols, Rev. #3

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

Dennis,

Thanks for the additions and corrections. I made them to the list and reloaded it as version 3.1.

If others could check the list for their favorite(s) road and let me know of further additions or corrections, I'll be glad to make them.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Storzek" <dstorzek@elnet.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 2:56 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Stations & Reweigh Symbols, Rev. #3


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@c...> wrote:

Just a note to let you know that I have uploaded a revised file of
Stations & Reweigh Symbols to the files section of the list.

Here are a few more additions and correctionns to the SOO locations:

FN is actually the shops in NORTH Fond du Lac, WI, about three miles
north of FDL proper.

Thief River Falls is in MN
Gladstone is in MI
Harvey is in ND

Marquette is in MI, not IN, and should be noted that the Soo changed
this symbol from the MARQ that the DSS&A was using after the two roads
merged in 1961

Shoreham Shops is in MN, and the actual location is Minneapolis.

Dennis Storzek









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North American Tank stenciling: white or silver?

lnbill <bwelch@...>
 

Inspired by Richard's article in RPMJ, I am building the North American
tank car model combining the Tichy underframe with the InterMountain
tank, but lengthening the underframe instead of shortening the tank. I
am doing at least two and will do three perhaps. I have a total of four
Tichy underframes and the third frame could be done w/three splices
instead of two.

Anyway, I am curious if the stenciling on the North American scheme was
really white, as used with the Champ decals, or silver which is the
Walthers set. The Frank Peacock photo makes me believe some could have
been silver.

I also have a photo of a Pressed Steel tank car lettered for A.E.
Staley with a really dirty white tank and black lettering, which leads
me to ask what other known schemes may have appreared on the Pressed
tanks?

Bill Welch


Re: Stations & Reweigh Symbols, Rev. #3

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@c...> wrote:

Just a note to let you know that I have uploaded a revised file of
Stations & Reweigh Symbols to the files section of the list.

Here are a few more additions and correctionns to the SOO locations:

FN is actually the shops in NORTH Fond du Lac, WI, about three miles
north of FDL proper.

Thief River Falls is in MN
Gladstone is in MI
Harvey is in ND

Marquette is in MI, not IN, and should be noted that the Soo changed
this symbol from the MARQ that the DSS&A was using after the two roads
merged in 1961

Shoreham Shops is in MN, and the actual location is Minneapolis.

Dennis Storzek


Re: Accurail's Forthcoming 40' AAR Gondola

Tim O'Connor
 

It's not often I agree with Tim, although his modeling work
is gorgeous. But I second his suggestion this time.

Why, thank you Andy! Just for that I promise not to make fun of
your Belpaire boilered 2-8-4 Bowser rebuild for at least a week. :-)

(just kidding)

tim o



Other than the
ancient technology Trains Miniature (now Walthers Trainline and not
currently available) car, no one that I can recall has ever done a 40'
plug door ice reefer. And I carved up quite a few of my stash of those
to make stand-in REA 50' express reefers in 1987. (Ref my article in
1987 MR). They were they pride and joy of my M&E trains until last
year when the real McCoys started to appear from Walthers and
Branchline.

regards,

Andy Miller

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
timboconnor@comcast.net
. . .

If that seems too similar to the Athearn reefer (and Walthers already
announced an FGE reefer), then a plug door 40 foot steel ice reefer
would be a good item... And you could get away with a heck of a lot of
paint schemes on those. Just do the same PC&F car Sunshine did; I
think Martin found a half dozen legit lettering schemes.

Tim O.





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