Date   

Wine car ops

PBowers <waiting@...>
 

While the wine car might be an interesting conversation piece, I would expect it was operated over few routes. Unless your modelled railway has a winery or bottling facility, or is on the route in between is it a logical car to have? For interst sake, how many routes would these cars be found on?

(Why do I whine about wine cars?? Whine not??)

Peter Bowers


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Re: cars that sell; was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jon Miller" <atsf@i...> wrote:
<snip> even one or two gons.
There was a really nice gon (SP kit by DA) but it didn't sell very
> well. <snip>

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Jon,
I've heard several people say that the reason the DA SP GS gon (a
string of letters only an STMFC nut, like me, could both understand
and love) didn't sell enough to even recoup DA's investment, much less
cause them to keep in in production (darn it) was it's light weight
when finished and no easy way to add weight that didn't show except
through a load, which raises the c/g quite a bit. I have one,
assembled, and I wish I had several more because my abilities have
increased quite a bit and I know I'd do a better job now. The funny
thing is that the DA SP GS gon is one of the few kits to be light
enough that you could run a prototypically long string of cars behind
a brass steam engine (of course, this would have to be a dedicated
train because adding any other cars (except at the front of the train
right behind the engine) would cause a disaster on the first curve.

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: NEB&W Green Dot Models Gondola Kits

Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
 

Larry Jackman asked:
"There are two kits of MEC steel gondola on Ebay and they want 35 dollars for the two. Your opinion please."

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6000459254

I'd pass. The kits in the eBay lot are cast in Funaro's old yellow resin - no workability problems, but the quality of his work has dramatically increased since these kits were introduced in the early 1990s. The opening bid of $35 is too high, especially as these are available new from Funaro for $35.99.
http://www.fandckits.com/HOFreight/6330.html


Ben Hom


Re: B&O stenciling and decal nitpicking

Walter M. Clark
 

--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rmwitt@i...> wrote:
<snip>
Bill,

<snip>It is a stencil with the painting information: such as the
manufacturer use, the date, etc. <snip>
I possibly have the raw material to make decals as I have copied
this information from probably over 100 cars, mostly box cars, from
my field observations made in the 1960s. I have examples for cars
last painted in 1955 and 1956. <snip>

Just last evening I was looking at some Xerox copies of M-55 boxcars
someone kindly sent me and it looks like there may be a start date
just after WWI when the B&O actually began to apply this stencil.
<snip>

It would be a nice addition for lettering B&O cars for the 1950s
<snip>.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob Witt
Bob, did you mean to say the lettering started just after WWI or WWII?
Your comment that "(i)t would be a nice addition for lettering B&O
cars for the 1950s" leads me to think WWII, but since I have one of
these cars and am modeling before WWII I need clarification.

Thanks,

Walter M. Clark
Time stopped in November 1941
Riverside, California


Re: B&O stenciling and decal nitpicking

ljack70117@...
 

There are two kits of MEC steel gondola on Ebay and they want 35 dollars for the two. Your opinion please
On Sep 21, 2005, at 2:16 PM, Bruce Smith wrote:


On Sep 21, 2005, at 12:53 PM, ljack70117@... wrote:


Can any one tell me about Rensselaer resin Gondola kits?
Thank you
Larry Jackman
Larry,

What did you want to know? If you are asking about NEB&W (the Renssalear Club's RR) kits, these were cast by Steve Funaro for the most part, and almost all are available through F&C at this point. Is there any kit in particular that you are interested in?

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/~smithbf/

"Beer is proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy" - Benjamin Franklin
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0

Thank you
Larry Jackman
ljack70117@...
You can't have everything. Where would you put it?


lightweight freight cars (was Re: roofs)

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@c... wrote:

Pat, although the physics of moving freight cars is real and had real
operational consequences (e.g. more fuel, more power) I don't think
the Return On Investment for lighter cars was ever as compelling as
say, increased car capacity, or roller bearings, or cushion underframes,
and so on. So while railroads dabbled in lighter car designs I think the
primary focus was on overall operating cost reduction. Nowadays (if I
may be permitted) considerable sums have been spent on lighter coal
cars, but it has to be pointed out that due to wind resistance, empty
coal cars going back to Wyoming require almost as much power & fuel
as the loaded coal cars! Railroads once again have discovered that
greater capacity (to 286,000 lbs) has a faster payoff than worrying
about fine-tuning the tare-to-weight ratio.

Tim O'Connor
Uncle!!! Darn it. I've let myself get trapped into a discussion that most subscibers to this
list couldn't care less about (am I right guys?) even though it is about freight cars (well sort
of). When I originally listed the desireable characteristics of a freight car roof, one that I
listed was lightness. That's all I said. I still stand by that simple concept. SRE also thought
it was a selling point (I'll now leave Wonder Bras and advertising out of my discussion -
they're not in my area of expertise nor do they concern freight cars and Mike is watching).
Heavy roofs, all else being equal, don't make sense. Lightness is desireable, especially
where it may lower the vertical cg of a car and improve its rolling dynamics. Of course,
additional friction snubbers in the spring groups may help here. When taken to extremes,
such as the experimental lightweight box cars, it had adverse repercussions. Absolument!

I do agree that weight has little impact on the rolling friction of a freight car. I was more
concerned with the component of the gravity vector (weight) aligned with the pulling faces
of the couplers when the car is being pulled upgrade {it's just the sine of the (grade) angle
times the weight of the car}.

Pat, signing off on this one before the thread is 20, 30, or 40 e-mails long and when I
finally agree that heavy freight car roofs are good. All in all, I think Mr Spock would agree
with me that that statement would be "most illogical."

Pat Wider


Re: cars that sell; was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 21, 2005, at 2:30 PM, Gatwood, Elden wrote:

.... does anyone have either the outside dimensions to one of the Type
30 GATC cars, or alternatively be willing to measure one of the WA Drake
cars to see what the frame length, tank length, tank diameter, and dome
diameter are?
Except for dome diameter, these dimensions are given in the 1931 and 1937 Car Builders' Cyclopedias: U/F length 36'8-1/2", width 9'3", 8K gal. tank 78" ID X 31'3-1/4" IL, 10K gal. tank 87-1/2" ID X 30'9-1/4" IL. FWIW, tank dimensions were identical with AC&F Type 27 and U/F dimensions were quite close.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: NEB&W Green Dot Models Gondola Kits

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'C. wrote:
Larry, the F&C War Emergency gons are still available, and the steel-side
rebuilds are good for SP (and probably Wabash as well). I've seen many
photos of the ex-T&NO cars all over the SP well into the 1970's... They
were a major car group on the SP in the 50's and 60's. Some lost their
wood sheathing and were used as log gondolas.
The steel-siding came during 1959-1961 and was only done to about half the cars. Some lost sheathing to be pipe gons, originally (for more on both points, see my Vol. 1).

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Mather car Undeframes

Paul Lyons
 

Tom, I do not remember what exactly is wrong with the Sunshine under frame, but it is substantially wrong, as best I recall. I haven't done one of these in awhile, but the simplest thing to do is to cut the floor out of a Proto 2000 undec. Mather stock or box car kit and use it along with the under frame piece. It is my understanding that they are correct. I also use the roof and roof walk out of the donor as they are far superior to the resin pieces. These changes turn these early Sunshine kits into pretty nice models. I still have not figured out a really good material and a good way to add the "legs" to the reinforcing channels on the sides. In my opinion, these channel legs not being part of the side castings is the real shortcoming of these kits. I hope you are doing one of the "tall" cars that can't be done with the LL kit.
Paul Lyons
Laguna Niguel, CA

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas M. Olsen <tmolsen@...>
To: Steam Freight Car List <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 06:14:56 -0400
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Mather car Undeframes


List:

In regard to the Mather box and stock cars, there had been a remark
during one of the discussions several months ago that the underframes on
the urethane Mather kits from Sunshine Models were not correct. I do
not remember anyone describing what was wrong with them, nor was there
any reference to drawings of the correct underframes regarding the stock
and box cars.

Can anyone comment on what was wrong with the kits and where correct
drawings of the underframes can be located?

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...





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Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Roger Parry <uncleroger@...>
 

Another vote for the Wine car!!!

On Sep 21, 2005, at 3:59 PM, tgregmrtn@... wrote:

Tim,

I was going to say the same thing but Richard beat me to it... 3^) Just save your pennies...

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:12:11 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)


On Sep 21, 2005, at 10:18 AM, @timboconnor wrote:

Let me predict that -someone- is working on a B&O Wagontop in
plastic. How could they not be? :-) The question remains, will anyone
ever wake up and give us the AAR alternate standard offet hopper?
Yes to both.

Richard Hendrickson





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Re: cars that sell; was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Before someone makes a 6-dome wine car will someone PLEASE make a GATC
ICC-103
single-compartment 8,000 or 10,000 gal. uninsulated car???? PLEASE?????

Pat Wider

SECONDED!

BTW, does anyone have either the outside dimensions to one of the Type
30 GATC cars, or alternatively be willing to measure one of the WA Drake
cars to see what the frame length, tank length, tank diameter, and dome
diameter are?

Thanks!

Elden Gatwood





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Re: roofs, was detail of AAR 1937 boxcar

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Pat Wider wrote:
If I have a car who's tare weight is 50,000 lb. and I load
it with 100 lb. of pillow feathers, I'm hauling 50,100 lb. If I have a car with a tare weight
of 45,000 lb., the same shipment would require hauling 45,100 lb. over the road. 100 lb.
would be well under the load limit of the car. But with a 100-car train of pillow feathers, I
would need less helpers going up Sherman Hill with the lighter cars or I could run maybe a
110-car train of pillow feathers using the same amount of helpers hauling the lighter cars.
Sure, as I said, Pat, the operating guys bought into this. Some did say, as you can read in Railway Age, that rolling resistance was not a strong enough function of weight to make it worth saving a few hundred pounds. The real point was, how did you achieve the saving? and what did it cost?

Also, most of the RME and RA articles on new car designs usually specified the light weight
to cubic capacity ratio of the freight cars. . . It seems the railway mechanical engineers of the
time thought that lighter was better.
Sure, everything else being equal. The question which isn't so easy is, what if lighter is achieved by using a material that corrodes easier? or is thinner and requires extra posts in construction? The mere fact that the burst of "lightweight" box cars after WW II soon died out ought to tell you something. OTOH, of course everyone bought into welded underframes, which save a bunch of weight. I simply dispute the notion that everything to save weight was good.

By the way, ads often state the obvious - Wonder Bras do wonderful things!!!!
No argument, but they also may state unessential things; and they certainly often state things they wish you would believe.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine car ops

raildata@...
 

I recall seeing multiple compartment wine car in Pennsylvania during the
1940s. Don't recall reporting marks, etc. but the stuff was rebottled as "Virgina
Dare" by the Brrokside distilling Co.

Chuck Y
Boulder CO


Re: Pacific Car & Foundry Builders Photos

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

Guyz,

In this topic, does anyone recall a soon to be finished book on FGE, that was explained as being the size & scope of the PFE research volume by Thompson, Church, and Jones??

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: lnbill
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, September 21, 2005 12:39 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Pacific Car & Foundry Builders Photos


I am curious to know if anyone on the list has any "definitive"
information on the disposition of the Builder's photos files from
Pacific Car & Foundry. A gift of 5 photos of Western Fruit & Fruit
Growers subjects leaves me wanting more and I wonder if PCF's photos
survived its demise in 1988.

Bill Welch





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Re: NEB&W Green Dot Models Gondola Kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Larry, the F&C War Emergency gons are still available, and the steel-side
rebuilds are good for SP (and probably Wabash as well). I've seen many
photos of the ex-T&NO cars all over the SP well into the 1970's... They
were a major car group on the SP in the 50's and 60's. Some lost their
wood sheathing and were used as log gondolas.

Tim O.


Re: cars that sell

Tim O'Connor
 

Pat, depending on how many you need, Red Caboose imported brass
8,000 GATC ICC-103 tank cars a few years ago. I heard a rumor that
these were going to be produced in either plastic or resin... They fetch
about $100 on Ebay when they show up; very nice little models.

Tim O'Connor

Before someone makes a 6-dome wine car will someone PLEASE make a GATC ICC-103
single-compartment 8,000 or 10,000 gal. uninsulated car???? PLEASE?????
Pat Wider


Re: lightweight freight cars (was Re: roofs)

Tim O'Connor
 

Pat, although the physics of moving freight cars is real and had real
operational consequences (e.g. more fuel, more power) I don't think
the Return On Investment for lighter cars was ever as compelling as
say, increased car capacity, or roller bearings, or cushion underframes,
and so on. So while railroads dabbled in lighter car designs I think the
primary focus was on overall operating cost reduction. Nowadays (if I
may be permitted) considerable sums have been spent on lighter coal
cars, but it has to be pointed out that due to wind resistance, empty
coal cars going back to Wyoming require almost as much power & fuel
as the loaded coal cars! Railroads once again have discovered that
greater capacity (to 286,000 lbs) has a faster payoff than worrying
about fine-tuning the tare-to-weight ratio.

Tim O'Connor


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Tim O'Connor
 

Marcelo, Rule #1: Don't produce limited-run resin/brass kits for cars
that are eventually going to be produced in plastic. There are hundreds
(thousands?) of cars which might sell just a few hundred copies. Any
list would include mechanical reefers (esp a 40 footer), oddball gondolas,
the Utah Coal Route gondolas :-) , small tank cars (PLEASE), and so on.
If you're all set on a hopper car, how about the 3-bay War Emergency
cars? I believe a nice set of drawings exists from a magazine article...
Alternatively, one of the varieties of 4-bay offset hoppers.

Tim O'Connor

Tim,
Where can I find the drawings for the AAR alternate standard offset hopper? I
want to produce a serie of 200 exact to scale cars ( mix of resin and
photoetching and brass castings ) and could start with this hopper or the 6-dome
wine car or any other car that you guys could help to choose.
Marcelo Lordeiro


Re: cars that sell; was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers

Patrick Wider <pwider@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Jon Miller" <atsf@i...> wrote:
Which do you think would sell more: the GA-Pfaulder milk
car, or a 6-dome wine tank car?<
I'll vote for the wine car. Not sure how many paint schemes could be
had however! But the Easterners just love the milk cars<VBG>.

Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time has stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS
Before someone makes a 6-dome wine car will someone PLEASE make a GATC ICC-103
single-compartment 8,000 or 10,000 gal. uninsulated car???? PLEASE?????

Pat Wider


Re: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)

Greg Martin
 

Tim,

I was going to say the same thing but Richard beat me to it... 3^) Just save your pennies...

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, 21 Sep 2005 12:12:11 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RE: new products (was BLI vs. Walthers express reefers)


On Sep 21, 2005, at 10:18 AM, @timboconnor wrote:

Let me predict that -someone- is working on a B&O Wagontop in
plastic. How could they not be? :-) The question remains, will anyone
ever wake up and give us the AAR alternate standard offet hopper?
Yes to both.

Richard Hendrickson





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