Date   

Re: fire fighting

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

John,

Thanks for that instruction, now I feel safe using this type equipment on the layout.
Just finishing up a PRR weed sprayer, and have been toying with the rail grinder. This fits in nicely.

Fred Freitas

----- Original Message -----
From: <MOFWCABOOSE@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 11:46 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] fire fighting


There have been plenty of examples of fire fighting done from speeder/push
car combinations. The most common circumstances were caused by the use of
self-propelled weed burners, made by Woolery and by Fairmont. It was common practice
to follow the weed burner with a speeder towing a push car with a small water
tank, to put out any fires that threatened to spread behind the burn swath or
persist in old crossties.

Weyerhauser, at least, and probably other loggers in the Pacific Northwest,
where fire was a constant danger, had fire trains ready to go at all times.
Most were full size cars, but I have a photo of at least one very large speeder
with a tank trailer and two flat cars, all larger then the standard push cars.

Today's rail grinding trains have a couple of tank cars and a fire car on the
tail end to put out fires caused by sparks from the grinding operation, but
again these are full-sized cars.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL







Yahoo! Groups Links








Accumate Proto:HO couplers

Dennis Storzek <dstorzek@...>
 

List,

Word of the recent discussion of near scale size couplers and draft gear boxes finally prompted me to join this forum. I spent some time last night reading the entire thread, until it was way too late to compose a reply. I'll try to make comment on all the points raised in this one message.

Material:
Both the Accumate PROTO:HO couplers and boxes are made from acetal co-polymer engineering resin; either Celcon or its equivelant. This material was chosen for its high strength, high stiffness, and low coefficient of friction. While the most important property for the couplers is strength, the most important property for the box is stiffness. The problems that some have reported with the standard size Accumate couplers "jamming open" is due specifically to boxes that are either too deep (too much space above or below the coupler shank) or boxes with covers that are too flexible. The amount that the twin shanks of Accumate couplers can offset to open the knuckle is limited by a tiny interlock between the adjacent surfaces of the shanks, and too much clearance allows the interlock peg to come out of its slot and jam against the opposing surface. The parts won't be damaged, but the situation is inconvenient. The standard size Accumates exhibit more problems in this regard than the PROTO version simply because we have no control over the dimensions of the boxes other manufacturers build into their floors.

While both couplers and boxes are made of the same material, they are not made in the same mold; each is in a different tool, one pair of coupler shanks in one and a pair of boxes and covers in another. This is "runnerless" molding, every molecule of plastic we shoot is shipped to you. There are no scrap sprues to be reground and used again, degrading the material properties further with each pass through the molding machine. By using only virgin material in these parts we guarantee that you get all the physical properties the resin manufacturer designed into the material.

Screws:
While it may appear convenient to simply cement the draft gear boxes in place, this will ultimately not have the strength to ensure that the coupler shanks can't spread and jam, therefore we don't recommend any mounting that doesn't have a screw through the boss that the couplers pivot on. As Dr. Anspach pointed out, a 00-90 flathead screw can be used in this location after first lightly countersinking the hole. We chose to go with the 0-80 screw because many people are uncomfortable with working with the smaller size drills, taps, and screws. I did consider incorporating the countersink in the mold and allowing it to be covered by the larger 0-80 pan head, but doing so would only give the 0-80 head bearing outside the area supported by the boss, making it easy to pinch the coupler shanks by over tightening the screw. The box is easy enough to coutersink by hand for those special cars.

Design, Engineering, and Execution:
Dr. Anspach is correct that the PROTO:HO coupler and its draft gear were "engineered" as a system, although since I don't have an engineering degree, I prefer the term designed. And yes, during the building of the tool the core pins that make the mounting holes ended up slightly off center in the bosses. As they say, stuff happens. Since this really doesn't affect the utility of the parts, the decision was made not to do an extensive re-work to the pins. However, the fact that one side of the boss is thinner makes this the first area on the part that doesn't fill, a "short shot". We consider these short shots a defective part, and like any defective Accurail part, we will replace any that are sent to us.

Dimensions and Car Spacing:
The PROTO:HO draft gear was designed to appear to be the continuation of the center sills through the body bolster. The box is designed to match the common 20 1/2" width of center sill cover plates that was common during the late steam / early Diesel era. The detailing on the underside of the box represents the commonly used friction draft gears of the day, contained by the sills, draft lugs, coupler yoke, and yoke support plate. The coupler head itself is a dimensionally accurate model of the AAR Type E coupler, with the knuckle shape modified to allow coupling with the other common magnetic couplers. Since the coupler head is positioned to match the common 3" striker horn to striker plate spacing used with these draft gears , if the end of the draft gear box is positioned where the prototype striker plate is located, the models will have the proper distance between cars. This isn't necessarily where the oversize box provided on some models ends, as none of the manufacturers has really paid much attention to these dimensions in the past, because all the available couplers were oversize. Keep in mind, when modeling more modern prototypes with extended draft gear, long shank couplers, or end of car cushioning devices, that the position of the PROTO:HO box may have to be adjusted to put the coupler pulling face at the proper location.

Mounting on cars without molded on boxes:
Dr. Anspach has given us an excellent summary of how the PROTO:HO box lends itself to mounting on most commercially available equipment, but someone asked about mounting on models where there is no coupler box provided, such as resin kits. The maybe not so obvious answer is to simply use both parts of the box that are provided with the couplers. While the unique design of the Accumate PROTO:HO coupler allows it to be mounted in the box alone, using the surface of the existing box as the cover, press-on covers are provided that when used, yield the same mounting surface dimension as the other popular couplers. These covers are also useful for modeling the extended draft gears on modern cars.

I hope this answers any questions that anyone had.


Dennis Storzek


Re: N&W Class BP/BPa (was Were there 10' IH 50' 1937 AAR DD boxcars?)

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Thanks, Ben!

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 5:20 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] N&W Class BP/BPa (was Were there 10' IH 50' 1937 AAR DD
boxcars?)

Elden Gatwood asked:
"Didn't the N&W have a similar experience with the BPa (am I getting
that one right?), but just elect to seal the door?"

Actually, they did both sealing the door and rebuilding the cars:
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/NS2868.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns048.jpeg
http://spec.lib.vt.edu/imagebase/norfolksouthern/full/ns046.jpeg


Ben Hom







Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: injection molding tooling costs/Terry Wegman

buchwaldfam <duff@...>
 

See.... it works!

www.caboosesnorthwest.com

Regards,
Phil Buchwald



--- In STMFC@..., "buchwaldfam" <duff@g...> wrote:

So.... is it possible to get some manufacturer to produce a
model of a certain prototype by convincing him that you are
tooling up
such a model yourself? In that case, I'm right in the middle of
tooling for a Milwaukee Road Rib Side caboose. Pre-oil furnace. ;>

Phil Buchwald

--- In STMFC@..., timboconnor@c... wrote:
Long ago and
far away an independent toolmaker had done wonderful tooling for
a
PFE R-40-23 reefer but a vendor found out about it and rushed a
kit
into production.... and that pretty much killed off that
toolmaker's biz
from what I heard. (I may have left out few salient details.)


Re: fire fighting

Gatwood, Elden <Elden.Gatwood@...>
 

Fred;
You haven't been reading TKM! You will get more of these next month in
TKM, courtesy of Al Buchan, including the fire fighting equipment
mounted on F31A's.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Fred in Vt.
Sent: Thursday, October 13, 2005 6:28 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] fire fighting

List,

This past August, a group from NH arrived for the annual
Fireman's Muster & Parade here in Vt.
The display item they brought was a Fairmont speeder and 2 "flats" that
made up the fire crew's service unit.
Does anyone on the list know if any of the prototype RR's had
such equipment for fire train service? There have been pix of flats,
tanks,etc. over the years, and I got to wondering if this idea was used
in the 1950's.
The men who brought the "train" claim you need a good
orthodontist to keep your teeth in line, as these speeders have no
springs. Doc Denny, is it true your teeth will chatter on long rides on
one of these?
Thanks for your time, and info.

Fred Freitas

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Montford Switzer <ZOE@...>
 

Tim,

The NKP stats listed are for all freight traffic right? We are talking
general service boxcars for Swift (disregarding the tank cars for this
discussion), right? When considering the eastbound refrigerated traffic
that the NKP enjoyed I would still think the westbound merchandise
shipped in general service boxcars could not be balanced (except during
the harvest) causing them to accumulate at Frankfort making lots of them
available to Swift.

Thank you for the correction as to the eastbound vs. westbound imbalance
on the NKP. I had though the opposite. It sure would be nice to see
what caused this.

Mont Switzer

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Tim Gilbert
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 6:07 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements
from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Montford Switzer wrote:

Responding to Tim Gilbert:

I would make the same argument for why there so few boxcars owned by
railroads of the Great Lakes Region (NYC, WAB, ERIE, DL&W, etc.. The
CIL

was part of the Central East Region.). This works only if there was an
ample supply of empty boxcars in Frankfort. If this supply was
critically low, then empty boxcars of the Great Lakes Roads and the
MONON would be hoarded. At Frankfort, the supply of empty boxcars were
augmented by cars released from the NKP's Frankfort Car Shops.
Mont responded:


I believe the NKP traffic balance was primarily westbound which would
cause the west end of the system to generate empties. Since
Frankfort
was a major west end terminal for the NKP it seems that an abundant
supply of empties from all sorts of roads would be available.
Between 1946 and 1950 per the ICC's OPERATING STATISTICS OF LARGE STEAM
RR's, the NKP's eastbound loaded freight car miles as a percent of total

loaded car miles was 65.5% in 1946, 65.0% in 1947, 64.0% in 1948, 61.4%
in 1949 and 58.2% in 1950 - these percentages reflect the effect of the
W&LE which began to be consolidated with the NKP staring in 1949. The
difference between east and westbound percent loaded car miles of total
car miles is reflected below:

PERCENT LOADED FREIGHT CAR MILES
Year Eastbound Westbound Both Directions
1946 89.6% 49.9% 70.3%
1947 87.8% 48.0% 68.1%
1948 86.5% 51.2% 69.3%
1949 78.2% 50.7% 64.7%
1950 75.7% 56.8% 66.5%

Overall, more empties were going westbound than eastbound on through
trains through Frankfort.

(Incidentally, the MONON was never considered to be a Large Steam RR by
the ICC so I don't know its operating statistics unlike the NKP.)

Mont wrote:


Incidentally, MONON #1 was in Frankfort on January 10th, 1948 loaded
with drugs loaded at Bloomfield NJ and routed
ERIE-Lima-NKP-TRRA-SSW-Corsicana-T&NO-El Paso-SP-San Francisco.

Do you think #1 was an accurate summary of freight car activity or
something the RR PR departments tampered with as they saw fit. I know
the MONON did several photos Op's with #1 even if it wasn't there.
They
just took a similar car and re-numbered it. We MONON modelers finally
caught on after we modeled the wrong door a few times.
No doubt the numbering of MONON #1 was a publicity stunt by John
Barringer. #1's itinerary, however, as published in the ad on pages
56-57 of the September 1948 TRAINS, however, was fact. Was #1's
itinerary a "typical" one for a boxcar in 1947-1948? No it was not, but
it was not too far off the "typical" boxcar in 1947-48.

The "average" boxcar in the US traveled about 22,000 miles per year of
which 75-80% of those miles were loaded. The "average" boxcar was
loaded 25 different times a year.

In comparison, CIL #1 traveled about 27,000 miles with over 95% of those

miles being loaded. CIL #1 was loaded about 33 times with 20 different
commodities, and traveled in 36 different states by 41 different
railroads. This is not photographic evidence, but results of tabulations

from the data in the TRAINS ad.

Modelers of the MONON RR operations should not be that concerned about
CIL #1 because it was on its home road only about 500 miles in the June
1947 to June 1948 period. Those miles included the initial load of
merchandise from Crawfordsville to Louisville (L&N) on June 13-17, 1947,

and between December 17 and December 24, 1947 when #1 carried a load of
syrup which was loaded on the B&O Chicago Terminal in Chicago for a
consignee served by the Indianapolis Union RR. (On December 26th, it was

loaded with auto parts on the IURR for delivery on the ERIE in
Bloomfield NJ.) CIL #1 only returned to the MONON in June 1948 because
Management asked the B&O to return the car empty so it could be gussied
up for the Chicago Rail Fair.

Mont wrote:


Also, no 1 carried just about all of the paint schemes so it got
repainted more often than most.
After CIL #1 stint at the Chicago Rail Fair, I don't know what happened
to #1.

I wrote:


Coke and Coal, I assume, were carried in hoppers which had much lower
percent loaded of total car miles than boxcars (55% vs. 76%) which
greatly reduced the opportunities for reloading empties before they
were

returned to the mines or ovens; thus, the percent of hoppers on home
road lines of total hoppers on the MONON was greater than for boxcars.
I

assume foundry sand was bagged and loaded into boxcars as were the TV
Cabinets. Were some of these commodities terminated on other roads? If
so, I would expect the MONON lost control of the routing of these
boxcars when they were unloaded just as they lost control of CIL #1
once

it was delivered to the L&N in Louisville on June 17th, 1947.
Mont responded:

If it was Indiana coal from on line mines I would think most of it ran
in MONON hoppers. Although I don't have specifics I believe during
that
period there was a law that state supported institutions had to burn
Indiana coal.
The use of the home road hoppers serving mines on the home road was the
usual practice throughout the country albeit there were some exceptions.

Mont wrote:

Coke was handled in special cars. In the late 1940's they were
converted composite gons and composite boxcars. Both looked like
stock
cars without roofs. Later they went to steel gondolas with open top
lift out containers.

I'm not positive, but I think the sand was shipped in bulk in boxcars.
Later covered hoppers took over.
I wrote:

What happened to boxcars carrying newsprint when they were unloaded?
Were they returned to their owners empty, or were they reloaded with
product, and routed wherever? There were no guarantees that GTW
boxcars
would be returned to the GTW once the newsprint was unloaded
particularly in times when there were boxcar shortages. If the GTW
wanted newsprint cars to return, CN cars should be used - assuming
that
the newsprint came from Canada.
Mont responded:

I'm not sure what happened to the GTW cars when empty in Indianapolis.
Freight to and from Indianapolis not balanced so outbound load
opportunities were not great. Probably the best bet for a load
northbound was grain and then only in season.
If no loads were available in Indianapolis, the GTW boxcars would have
been returned empty towards the GTW. These boxcars could be plucked from

trains on their way home, reloaded and routed to God knows where much
like the NKP did with CIL #1 around Erie PA in August 1947 when #1 was
loaded with tomato juice for Nashville TN.

Mont later amended his statement about GTW boxcars carrying newsprint to

CN and CP newsprint cars.

Tim Gilbert





Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: FGE steel reefer- Not - RP Cyc 12

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <bwelch@u...> wrote:

I hope that drawing in PR CYC is not a steel reefer. It should be
the
drawing of the wartime built plywood reefers that is the subject of
the
article wherein the drawing appears

Bill Welch
Yes Bill, you are correct. It's a war time reefer with plywood side,
steel roof and steel ends.

Ed


Fw: After 30 years Tank Cars no longer sitting in Chalfont - On the move to NHIR

Dave Pfeiffer
 

This should be of interest to this group.


http://www.trainweb.org/phillynrhs/RPOTD051012.html


Dave Pfeiffer


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Michael Aufderheide
 

Thanks Doug! I'll add that info in.

Mike

--- Doug Rhodes <farronhill@...> wrote:

Mike,the 1952 CPR Summary of Equipment shows
CP180528 as a 36 foot steel
frame box car, one of 16,030 similar cars in service
on CPR in that year.
That would be the "Dominion" or "Fowler" type single
sheathed wood car,
built between 1909 and 1913.

Hope this helps
Doug Rhodes

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Aufderheide" <mononinmonon@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949
Boxcar Movements from
Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort
IN


snipped

CP ? 180528 RUBBER Northbound to Michigan City
(CSSSB
PM NYC)
CP B 247203 PAPER Southbound to Bloomington

Any thoughts?

Regards,

Mike





__________________________________
Yahoo! Music Unlimited
Access over 1 million songs. Try it free.
http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/


Re: More 1949 NKP Car Movements - March 16 thru March 31, 1949

Ray Breyer <rbreyer@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Gilbert
3) 24 of the 48 Boxcars were NKP's. How much this "high" percentage was
due to the release of cars from the Frankfort Car Shops, and how much
was to the Recession in 1949 cannot be determined quickly.
It looks like the 24 cars represent a pretty even cross-section of the NKP's
40-foot steel boxcar fleet for 1949, with ten series of cars represented:

1) 6982, 6839, 6085, 6078: 6000-6999 series PS-1, 7' Superior doors, 1948.
2) 27026, 27909, 27910, 27912, 27444: 27000-27914 series rebuilds, 7'
Youngstown doors, reverse Hutchins ends, 1946/1947.
3) 16292, 16488: 16000-16499 series, ACF, 6' Youngstown doors, Dreadnaught
ends, 1941.
4) 13005, 13341: 13000-13499 series, Pullman, 6' Youngstown doors,
Dreadnaught ends, 1934.
5) 15252: 15000-15499 series, GATC, 6' Youngstown doors, Dreadnaught ends,
1936.
6) 15681: 15500-15999 series, GATC, 6' Youngstown doors, Dreadnaught ends,
1937.
7) 16729, 17394, 17049, 17352: 16500-17399 series, GATC, 6' Youngstown
doors, Dreadnaught ends, 1942.
8) 26268, 26207: 26000-26314 series rebuilds, 7' Youngstown doors, 1/5/5/6
Murphey ends, 1946/1947.
9) 20294, 20217: 20200-20499 series, ACF, 6' Carbuilder's doors,
Carbuilder's ends, 1941.
10) 20099: 20000-20199 series, Pullman, 6' Superior door, Carbuilder's ends,
1940.

The only new cars delivered to the NKP in 1949 were the 86000-86199 series
50' auto boxes, so I don't think that this group of cars includes any from
an ongoing Frankfort Shops rebuilding program. The PS-1s are only a few
months old, so they may represent a new slug of cars onto the property.

Ray Breyer


fire fighting

Fred in Vt. <pennsy@...>
 

List,

This past August, a group from NH arrived for the annual Fireman's Muster & Parade here in Vt.
The display item they brought was a Fairmont speeder and 2 "flats" that made up the fire crew's service unit.
Does anyone on the list know if any of the prototype RR's had such equipment for fire train service? There have been pix of flats, tanks,etc. over the years, and I got to wondering if this idea was used in the 1950's.
The men who brought the "train" claim you need a good orthodontist to keep your teeth in line, as these speeders have no springs. Doc Denny, is it true your teeth will chatter on long rides on one of these?
Thanks for your time, and info.

Fred Freitas


Re: 1937 AAR BOX CAR

Bill McCoy <bugsy451@...>
 

Thanks everyone who responded to my original question about 50' 1937
AAR cars. The Steam Freight cars list is terrific however all of the
cars listed are 40 footers as far as I can tell. The CG 50' door and
a half cars have all the hallmarks of the 1937 AAR standardized
design (Murphy Roofs and ends, 10" inside height) so I think it's
safe to assume they are also part of the 1937 standardized car
program. A number of other 10' IH 50s were mentioned in the thread.
This car sounds like a good candidate for a urethane kit.

Richard's freight car search page is a great resource. Tim, thanks
for suggesting it. It continues to amaze me to see the willingness
of people who participate in STMFC to share with all of us the
wealth of information that's available.

See you in N'ville.


Bill McCoy
Jax


--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@c...> wrote:


Hmmmmmmmm.... sounds like someone has some catching up to do! :-)

Bill, check out Ted Culotta's web site for an annotated roster
of owners. They were legion.

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarmain.html

The Southern Pacific owned nearly 8,000 of these cars in 5 classes
(B-50-18, -19, -20, -21, -23) with variations of ends, doors,
trucks,
brakes and running boards. They were the dominant steel SP box car
for more than 10 years.

You can find a lot of information in the FCL archive:

http://www.photo.tntech.edu/~richard/Freightcars/archive/search.php3

For example I searched for "1937 AAR box" and got 403 hits, many of
them actually relevant! Or you can Google for the above and find
the
above two web sites and a number of others.

Tim O'Connor



I just came across a stash of unbuilt kits labeled as 1937 AAR
Box Car
by Innovative Model Works deep in my model railroad storage
cabinet.
While one of the kits is lettered SP, the remainder of the stash
of 8
or 10 kits are undecorated. Can anyone in the group provide
prototype
information as to which railroads owned these cars?
Thanks, in advance, for any info.
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: fire fighting

MOFWCABOOSE@...
 

There have been plenty of examples of fire fighting done from speeder/push
car combinations. The most common circumstances were caused by the use of
self-propelled weed burners, made by Woolery and by Fairmont. It was common practice
to follow the weed burner with a speeder towing a push car with a small water
tank, to put out any fires that threatened to spread behind the burn swath or
persist in old crossties.

Weyerhauser, at least, and probably other loggers in the Pacific Northwest,
where fire was a constant danger, had fire trains ready to go at all times.
Most were full size cars, but I have a photo of at least one very large speeder
with a tank trailer and two flat cars, all larger then the standard push cars.

Today's rail grinding trains have a couple of tank cars and a fire car on the
tail end to put out fires caused by sparks from the grinding operation, but
again these are full-sized cars.

John C. La Rue, Jr.
Bonita Springs, FL


Re: Sprung Trucks

Manfred Lorenz
 

--- In STMFC@..., jaley <jaley@p...> wrote:

Why is equalization important? I cannot recall the last time I
have seen a derailment (on layouts owned by several other folks,
including
a club) that was caused by a lack of equalization. By this, I ASSUME
that
equalization prevents a truck from derailing with three wheels on the
rails, and the fourth up in the air (due to extremely bad trackwork).
That would be my question too. If a truck goes over a low spot where
one wheel would be in the air it should in reality not. Why? Because
the axles have axial play in the sideframe bearings. A wheelset that is
supported only on one side will drop as far as the axle play will let
it. The limiting factor is the weight of the car. This is pushing down
at the axle tip while the rail forces up at the wheel. A lever of about
0.18" using the typical 1.015" axle length. The lever of the wheel on
the opposite, low, side will be 0.65" (track gauge). A factor of 3.5 in
favor of the wheel's weight against the 1/8th of the car's in a
perfectly leveraged truck arrangement (total flexibility). Which is not
present on most model cars. The trucks movements are restricted by the
kingpin. This affects weight distribution in reality. I don't have the
weight numbers ready (too pounderous ;-) but imagine the wheel will
follow the depressing avoiding becoming derailed. This all is only true
if not other forces interfere and cause a derailment by too much
sideforce exerted on the truck.

So my guess is that a lot of flex is not really necessary. The built in
looseness of axle play and inherently truck elasticity should be enough
under normal conditions.

Manfred


Re: Springs? Who needs 'em?

Manfred Lorenz
 

I understand that the P87 shop will come up with a heftier spring to
be applied in Kadee trucks. It is a metal spring just with a rubbery
coating.

My observation as to the effect real springs have is that they do
actually not depress. To achieve this I always thought of using the
vastly weaker Kadee knuckle springs. What they do is give the whole
truck assembly more flex. A feature more needed if one uses P87
standards. I noticed while testing the droppability of Reboxx 088
wheels in Accurail trucks at the switch point that these also have a
live give and flexibility. I took my index finder for a ride over the
point and saw how the free hanging wheel dropped ever so slightly in
the gap. It was not well enough established to give a big bang but it
was a recognizeable drop of the sideframe.

My approach is to exchange the springs with thicker guitar wire
fabrications on the home shop. This gives the prototypical meat and
does not affect flexing to a degree that would be rated as non-
existant.


To sum it up: Even "rigid" trucks have some flexibility which was
thought (by me) to be an exclusive, and the onle sigfnificant,
feature of sprung trucks.

Manfred

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@b...> wrote:

... I just filled the things up with epoxy. Worked well. Can't see
through them and the car doesn't derail. Does seem sorta odd though.


Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN

Doug Rhodes
 

Mike,the 1952 CPR Summary of Equipment shows CP180528 as a 36 foot steel frame box car, one of 16,030 similar cars in service on CPR in that year. That would be the "Dominion" or "Fowler" type single sheathed wood car, built between 1909 and 1913.

Hope this helps
Doug Rhodes

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Aufderheide" <mononinmonon@...>
To: <STMFC@...>
Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Bil Darnaby's List of 1949 Boxcar Movements from Swift's Soy Bean Processing Operation in Frankfort IN


snipped

CP ? 180528 RUBBER Northbound to Michigan City (CSSSB
PM NYC)
CP B 247203 PAPER Southbound to Bloomington

Any thoughts?

Regards,

Mike


Re: 1937 AAR BOX CAR

Tim O'Connor
 

Hmmmmmmmm.... sounds like someone has some catching up to do! :-)

Bill, check out Ted Culotta's web site for an annotated roster
of owners. They were legion.

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/1937aarmain.html

The Southern Pacific owned nearly 8,000 of these cars in 5 classes
(B-50-18, -19, -20, -21, -23) with variations of ends, doors, trucks,
brakes and running boards. They were the dominant steel SP box car
for more than 10 years.

You can find a lot of information in the FCL archive:

http://www.photo.tntech.edu/~richard/Freightcars/archive/search.php3

For example I searched for "1937 AAR box" and got 403 hits, many of
them actually relevant! Or you can Google for the above and find the
above two web sites and a number of others.

Tim O'Connor

I just came across a stash of unbuilt kits labeled as 1937 AAR Box Car
by Innovative Model Works deep in my model railroad storage cabinet.
While one of the kits is lettered SP, the remainder of the stash of 8
or 10 kits are undecorated. Can anyone in the group provide prototype
information as to which railroads owned these cars?
Thanks, in advance, for any info.
-- Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


Re: Fallen Flags Website/Rutland

Eric
 

I can't tell you about your mind but There is stuff missing from the FF rutland site. No gondolas
though.


Eric Petersson


Jace wrote:

"Is my mind already starting to go, or has George Elwood's website deleted views? I had gotten
the idea of converting a Rutland #4000 series woodside gondola, using an extra 40' flat (from the
CDS lettering for the same) and was sure I had found a nice scan of one on his website several
months back.

I just went to look again (now that I am about to start construction) and the Rutland selection is
thin, indeed: very little rolling stock"



________________________________________________
Get your own "800" number
Voicemail, fax, email, and a lot more
http://www.ureach.com/reg/tag


Springs? Who needs 'em?

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

With all this talk of "equalizing" springs, using real springs, and putting "scene blocks" behind see through springs, I have to laugh at one of my efforts. Blocks behind springs? Heck no, I just filled the things up with epoxy. Worked well. Can't see through them and the car doesn't derail. Does seem sorta odd though.

Mike Brock...KIS [ Note that I left off the last "S". Don't want to upset anyone. Of course I could have used the letter "B" [ Bozo is an accepted term on the STMFC...except, naturally, when applied to your servant ] but, then no one would have known what I meant.


Re: Sprung Trucks

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

For decades I have favored the appearance, heft, and "feel" of sprung trucks; and I felt pretty smug about the "equalizing", and that the trucks had "Real Springs". Well, this tower of belief imploded when Richard Hendrickson first pointed out to me years ago the obvious: Just how many freight trucks have just two spindly springs through which you can read the morning newspaper, if need be? Hmmm.

And, just how much weight in real HO model time would the average sprung truck actually need to actually equalize? Hmmmm (again).

Pretty good arguments, reluctantly and slowly accepted as hard to refute. The Accurail trucks began to look better.

Having said all of this, I still choose Kadee or Central Valley metal trucks for a lot of things because I admire their high quality and finish, and---- their weight. I have saved many a closed featherweight car just by using metal trucks, and the weight is right down low where it is needed. I DO improve rollability with Reboxx wheel replacements. I have not yet resorted to gluing styrene or Strathmore blinds over the backs of the springs, but I probably will start doing so.

I do like the idea of an aftermarket development of detailed moulded spring sets that could replace the springs. A caveat would have to be that the sprung trucks have to well made enough that when the replacement "set" is inserted, the side frames would actually remain square to the bolster. The real springs being replaced could allow a host of ill-fits to be effectively covered up in this regard.

Has anyone actually measured the cross sectional dimensional accuracy of the Kadee, Accurail, and Central Valley AAR trucks against the prototype?

Denny

--
Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento, California